Author Topic: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"  (Read 66325 times)

Offline martinjmmac5

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #280 on: January 20, 2009, 06:56:27 pm »
Anybody agreeing with this sentiment has to be the least intelligent dickhead in a sea of dickheads.

In Houlliers last season we finished 5th.

This season, Rafas team is second, joint on points with the leaders Utd.

In Houlliers last season he bought unknown, untried, unproven players in Diouf, Cheyrou, Diao.

This season, Rafa has bought tried, tested, proven players in Keane and Dossena. So far, these have ended up as flops - but to compare these acquisitions to those of houllier is ridiculously insulting. Keane was hailed by everybody in the game as a great addition.

*might I add, i always knew it wouldnt be successful. On the day i heard of it, i turned to my brother and spoke the words 'why the fuck has he bought him for?!'. My brother was joyus. I am not rafas fanboy - but, despite the fact that i thought it wasnt what we needed, i would NEVER ever think of comparing El Hadji to Robbie.

As i said on a nother forum recently...

i am disgusted at liverpool fans right now.

Some of you are a bunch of pussys. cowardly c*nts.

We should be at our strongest now.

You fucking cowards. Calling for rafas head, wallowing in self pity, turning on players in an instant.

Shankly would turn in his grave right now hearing this shite.

Thank god our players have more heart that some of you.

Waa Waa...Rafas lost it...the titles gone...Waa Waa...Houllier moment, sack him!...Waa Waa...Fuck off!

(p.s. im not talking about everybody, but those who i am referring to know so)

shankly would turn in his grave if he saw the club's problems being done in the open and if he saw lucas leiva doing anything but serving burgers at half time, but most of all he would turn in his grave if he saw us scoring a goal against e'ton then trying to sit it out with lucas 'foul' leiva coming on and not having a striker on the pitch to kill off the game.
we played against stoke without a striker for fuck sake what was that about?
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Offline wesley

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #281 on: January 20, 2009, 06:59:12 pm »
i was astonished to see a thread like this. the economy is bad but this one is worse.

Offline lfcmaster

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #282 on: January 20, 2009, 07:01:47 pm »
Anybody agreeing with this sentiment has to be the least intelligent dickhead in a sea of dickheads.

In Houlliers last season we finished 5th.

This season, Rafas team is second, joint on points with the leaders Utd.

In Houlliers last season he bought unknown, untried, unproven players in Diouf, Cheyrou, Diao.

This season, Rafa has bought tried, tested, proven players in Keane and Dossena. So far, these have ended up as flops - but to compare these acquisitions to those of houllier is ridiculously insulting. Keane was hailed by everybody in the game as a great addition.

*might I add, i always knew it wouldnt be successful. On the day i heard of it, i turned to my brother and spoke the words 'why the fuck has he bought him for?!'. My brother was joyus. I am not rafas fanboy - but, despite the fact that i thought it wasnt what we needed, i would NEVER ever think of comparing El Hadji to Robbie.

As i said on a nother forum recently...

i am disgusted at liverpool fans right now.

Some of you are a bunch of pussys. cowardly c*nts.

We should be at our strongest now.

You fucking cowards. Calling for rafas head, wallowing in self pity, turning on players in an instant.

Shankly would turn in his grave right now hearing this shite.

Thank god our players have more heart that some of you.

Waa Waa...Rafas lost it...the titles gone...Waa Waa...Houllier moment, sack him!...Waa Waa...Fuck off!

(p.s. im not talking about everybody, but those who i am referring to know so)

under houllier we finished second
rafa has not done that yet

Offline Stussy

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #283 on: January 20, 2009, 07:02:47 pm »


I'll take part in this conversation at the end of the season, when we know what we have achieved, where Rafa has taken us, not just after the half way stage of the campaign, positioned to put a challenge in, and still in Europe. Rehearse your arguments until then, but if you want to execute without the context of this season fully played out, you're crazy.

It's not something you have to be magnanimous or generous about, if you decide to do that.

It's the most simple fucking obligation you have to our manager and our team.




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Offline Fat Scouser

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #284 on: January 20, 2009, 07:03:17 pm »
Well, I finally got round to reading the answers. I intended to answer them, but, in all honesty, once I saw your answer for a replacement manager was Mourinho I changed my mind. In fact, I nearly lost the will to live.
Me and  KOTP crossed swords in another thread about Rafa. He kept saying Rafa didn't act in the "Liverpool Way." I'd like to go on about the Liverpool way, but I've done that in other threads. But I'll say this.... Mourinho is the absolute anti-christ of the Liverpool way.

I honestly, personally hate the man that much that if he ever did become manager of LFC, I would stop going to all games immeadiately and wouldn't go to another until he was gone. And that's coming from a man who has been going to watch Liverpool for 45 years.

And once I saw his name, I was tempted to just print Fuck off in highlighted capitals, but I'll try to be above me usual self. But take it from me, Mourinho would truly be the final nail in the coffin of The Liverpool Way.

On top of that, Mourinho is also basically a very cautious manager. His teams play shit on a stick football and grind out very boring 1 - 0 wins. But why let facts like that stand in the way when finding another alternative is so hard if not impossible.

Also, did you not see Rafa's Valencia play? Boring, defensive football, I think not. We are work in progress - results and substance must come before flair. The hardest title to win is the first one. Style can be added once it's in the cabinet. They also seem to come in clusters too. And let's be honest.. who can honestly say they haven't been thrilled with some of our football during Rafa's shift?

Quick word on The Liverpool Way... it never just evolved or materialised out of the blue. Bill and Bob fought the board tooth and nail to make them conduct business in that manner. And Bill was never shy about going public with any of his gripes, or using us fans to help him push for what he wanted. We also had great men like John Smith and Peter Robinson conducting business for us - the exact polar opposites of Parry and H&G.

But anyway, instead of answering the answers, I will say this... I honestly think a lot of this stems from the fact that we have been completely ruined as fans by our success. In fact, Rafa created a terrible rod for his own back by winning the CL in his first season. Our expectations are quite laughable at times and no wonder fans of other clubs call us Whingeing Scousers.

Even through the lean years we have picked up trophies and our record would have been perfectly acceptable at other clubs. Imagine Portsmouth having the success we've had in the Ged/Rafa years. Fuck me. they made Harry Redknapp a free man of the city for winning the FA Cup. They even gave it to the spiv bastard after he'd kicked shit in their face and went to Spurs - a full two days after he'd fucked off.

We're not Pompey you will say. I know we are not - we boo when going top of the league. They sing non stop when getting twatted 8 - 0. But other than that, we have things in common - we're both skint and we have turmoil in the boardroom. But we expect, no demand, to win league titles against the most formidable richest opponents we have ever faced.

I think alot of this has to do with this fucking awful time of instant celebrity, fame and riches. No one wants to earn things now. A lot of young people have a smaller attention span than a goldfish. Yeah. I might be an auld bastard, but I don't watch highlights of Man U or Arsenal on MOTD and think they play like that for 90 minutes week in week out. And I'm certainly not having a go at young people. I know some cracking young reds. But it does seem to be an age thing. The problem is building a successful football team and leaving a lasting legace, still requires the sort of time it did in the glory years. I never hear any of these gripes in the auld arse thread.

After Saturday's wonder goal, one young fella on here said to me in all seriousness... We should buy Koncheski. When I pointed out the last time he scored a goal, it was really a cock up of a cross against us I was just surprised he even remembered we'd been to Cardiff. That's why I just say fuck off to most people who have lost faith in Rafa - they haven't got a fucking clue and just regurgitate what they are force fed by the media. "Skywashed" as someone on here named it.

I've no idea how old the OP is, but I just wish people like KOTP - who's probably far cleverer than me - would take the time to think of what could happen if Rafa jumps or is pushed.

Where would that leave us? In complete disarray, I'd think. And how long would it take us to pull out of it? Lets face it, even if a great manager was to come in under the best of circumstances, it would still take him time to implement his plans. I think, well, I'm practically certain, Arsene Wenger won the league in his first attempt. But he did take over a great side and had/has a good boardroom behind him.

So KOTP, as me Ninna would say, be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

Rafa sackers, really need to develop a little patientce. His lot is not an easy one. The boardroom will never give him there full support - we should.

But if he hasn't delivered the title in a couple of season's, when he's been allowed to buy the players he wants - within a set budget - I will join you. But I won't be doing it in slyly veiled little snipes. I'll be calling for his head good and proper. But until that time has clearly come, I'm fucked if I want to lose the best manager we've had since Sir Bob before he's had time to finish the job.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2009, 07:07:49 pm by FAT SCOUSER »
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Offline se9R.F.L

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #285 on: January 20, 2009, 07:05:55 pm »
I was going to give this place a wide berth for a day or two and let the nonsense die down but i take exception to this.

How the fuck has Rafa taken us as far as he can? Unless you mean to the top of the league where we should still be only our team hasn't done what everyone, and i mean everyone, expected us to in the last 2 games. last nights substitutions baffled me as well but last year in the derby he took Gerrard off for lucas and he won the game for us. We conceded from  a free kick with 4 minutes left on the clock. That free kick had goal written all over it. Yossi's made a bad mistake with that tackle but if he'd won the ball we'd all be metaphorically patting him on the back and celebrating another derby win.

What pissed me off about last night was the ref, and before anyone says you can't blame the ref, he let everton get away with kicking lumps out of anyone within reach from the first whistle. It was fucking obvious that there game plan was to boot our players about a bit and break the game up. If they could have  done this within the rules of the game then fair play to them however there were some sickening challenges out there and practically all of them went unpunished. if the card had come out after the first few then they would have held back and the game would have flowed. In "letting the game flow" by not booking players for dirty or cynical challenges the game was actually broken up.
ok most of that should go in the post game bollocks but i'm not going near that.

Benitez literally can't win. Last night, fair enough it was by knobhead gray, he was accused of messing with a winning formula by playing Keane and Torres! For fucks sake what would they have said if Keane or Torres had started on the bench? they would have said "why isn't he going for it" it beggars belief and it seems that loads of people on here read the papers too much.
Whether or not the media in general are anti LFC, they are most certainly anti Rafa bar the odd columnist and from what i have read lately it's starting to filter through to our fans.

I'll state this now so whoever cares knows my stance if they didn't already. There is no-one, NO-ONE, i'd have managing this club over Benitez.

Our best striker, the 3rd best player in the world apparently, has been out for much of the season, the player we brought in as cover for this eventuality at a high price has failed so far, I'm sorry but he has and he needs to sort it out as there have been few offering as little as him all season. we need goals and if Nando ain't there to score them then Keane has to, he always has for fucks sake and i can't work it out at all, i'm not bashing him but he has played some truly awful games this season.

In terms of quality i don't remember the league being so tight as this time round, i said it earlier in the season, there are no easy games. they might turn out easy in the end but i've not had the "we're gonna thump these" feeling that i get before games as much this season because it's just not playing out like that. the rule is that 30 points is enough to beat the drop, not this year i don't think unless the second half is drastically different to the first.

We have been top since november but i've never seen us running away with it, we should have on paper but then with the points we've dropped we should have been overtaken before last weekend.

We're in a position where a draw feels like a bad loss. thats not progress on last year is it?

We're in a position where we can hardly remember what losing feels like, no progress there.

Seriously how the fuck can anyone say Benitez has taken us as far as he can? 1 loss in the most competitive league in the world?

When do liverpool ever do anything the easy way? If we'd have won it after being top in november and staying there people would have said that united and chelsea didn't play their best and we only won it by proxy.

If, sorry, WHEN we win the league after beating united at old trafford and clawing our way back then no-one will be able to take anything away from our team and, more importantly, our manager who deserves not one bit of the shit he constantly gets.

I bet a few of you will have changed your tune by then as well, surprise surprise.

this thread is a load of bollocks i'm going back to Fat scousers one

Offline Dr Cornwallis

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #286 on: January 20, 2009, 07:06:45 pm »
This is the current standings:

Man Utd           21   47
Liverpool   22   47
Chelsea           22   45
Aston Villa   22   44
Arsenal           22   41
Everton           22   36
Wigan Athletic   22   31


.... and some people are asking for Rafa's head. Get a fucking grip!!!

Let's assume they win their game in hand.  We're still due to play at OT with (guess what) 3 points at stake.
We've been without our best full backs for the past few games and our attacking centre back.  Our primary striker has only now just regained some match fitness and looks dangerous. 
If this is a crisis, then I can only imagine what a good period will make the table look like.
UNited are in the middle of their great run, not condeded in 10 games.  It wont go on like this, it never does.

Offline GinKop

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #287 on: January 20, 2009, 07:07:40 pm »

I'll take part in this conversation at the end of the season, when we know what we have achieved, where Rafa has taken us, not just after the half way stage of the campaign, positioned to put a challenge in, and still in Europe. Rehearse your arguments until then, but if you want to execute without the context of this season fully played out, you're crazy.

It's not something you have to be magnanimous or generous about, if you decide to do that.

It's the most simple fucking obligation you have to our manager and our team.

Is right.

At this stage of the season, you can only draw conclusions without having all of the facts. After a disappointing game we could win 10 on the bounce; after a disappointing game we could slide down the table....who knows, certainly NONE of us.

Any comparisons are premature and predications at best.
JFT97

Offline martinjmmac5

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #288 on: January 20, 2009, 07:08:55 pm »
under houllier we finished second
rafa has not done that yet


yep exactly, and he had proportionately less funds and he built the team that won the champions league, don't get me wrong i like Rafa, i think he has brought us a long way but there are people with a massive sentimental attachment to him and are satnding by him when everyone else can see he is bringing us down now with his unbelieveable decision making. i'm not one to boo or moan at the match and will sing his name at the match, because he is our manager, but he has got no excuse not to finish second or better this year and be within 6 points of the league, or win it, with decisions like last night i cannot see it, somebody said on here before what was wrong with bringing yossi on he was an attacking outlet, what was wrong with leaving the 2 Ł46 million pound strikers on for a full 90 minutes. One word 'lucas'     
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Offline manicss01

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #289 on: January 20, 2009, 07:12:14 pm »
under houllier we finished second
rafa has not done that yet

This thread is titled 'Houllier Moment' reffering to the time when houllier fucked up royal.

Houllier finished second when there was no Chelsea or Aston Villa.

Houllier finished second by playing the shittest, most blandest football ever. And you complain about Rafa?

Houllier finished second, but after 22 games in that season, had 5 points less than we have now.

Thank you.

Now go home with that shite argument. Rafas won the Champions League. Houller HASNT.

Quote
shankly would turn in his grave if he saw the club's problems being done in the open and if he saw lucas leiva doing anything but serving burgers at half time, but most of all he would turn in his grave if he saw us scoring a goal against e'ton then trying to sit it out with lucas 'foul' leiva coming on and not having a striker on the pitch to kill off the game.
we played against stoke without a striker for fuck sake what was that about?

-Do you know how many points we lost every year under shankly? Shitloads. Shankly didnt win the title by winning every fucking game. Teams drop points, like we did at stoke, get over it and support your team.
-Bringing Torres off did not lose us the fucking match. GET THAT IN YOUR HEAD.
-Whatever you just said means fuck all because it doesnt address the point that i make. THE FANS. Even at its lowest, THE FANS, should be behind the club. My point is still valid. You can talk about Lucas, Burgers or Stoke - my point was about the fans.

Offline martinjmmac5

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #290 on: January 20, 2009, 07:14:47 pm »
Quote from: Stussy on Today at 07:02:47 PM

I'll take part in this conversation at the end of the season, when we know what we have achieved, where Rafa has taken us, not just after the half way stage of the campaign, positioned to put a challenge in, and still in Europe. Rehearse your arguments until then, but if you want to execute without the context of this season fully played out, you're crazy.

It's not something you have to be magnanimous or generous about, if you decide to do that.

It's the most simple fucking obligation you have to our manager and our team.


Is right.

At this stage of the season, you can only draw conclusions without having all of the facts. After a disappointing game we could win 10 on the bounce; after a disappointing game we could slide down the table....who knows, certainly NONE of us.

Any comparisons are premature and predications at best.


so we can't discuss liverpool until the end of the season, no point in having rawk then is there, everything is predicted in life, crossing the road is under a prediction that you wont get hit by a car. you leave for work with the prediction that you will get there at a certain time, so to discuss how we think we will do is wrong then???
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Offline Dubit10

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #291 on: January 20, 2009, 07:15:08 pm »
Can't believe this thread. Say's a lot about some of the gutless fans we have. >:(  We are joint top of the league in January will some people get a fuckin grip.
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Offline benitezthered

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #292 on: January 20, 2009, 07:15:09 pm »
Can see the similaritys, but personally think with our side (at worst) going to be 3 points off Man U going into Feb, I think we cant be rash...

I must admit that I was baffled and left the ground not a million miles away from feeling physically sick last night, but in perspective they are not a bad side...who have defended and spoilt teams game plans all season (Chelsea/Mancs two good examples)

If in 18 months we are still looking for number 19, no matter what has gone on in Europe I will accept Rafa probably isnt the man to do it...

IF and thats a massive IF Rafa does leave, that surley leaves us in a weaker position as a club, and the prospect of another 2years rebuilding to get us to the position we are now potentially. Torres, Masch, Reina, Skrtel and Alonso all could leave...The spine that has  taken 5 years to build would be gone

I am as gutted and dissapointed as anyone, but urge people to think back 3 weeks to 5-1 @ Newcastle...its only 3 weeks...not that much has changed!
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Offline lfcmaster

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #293 on: January 20, 2009, 07:16:56 pm »
yep exactly, and he had proportionately less funds and he built the team that won the champions league, don't get me wrong i like Rafa, i think he has brought us a long way but there are people with a massive sentimental attachment to him and are satnding by him when everyone else can see he is bringing us down now with his unbelieveable decision making. i'm not one to boo or moan at the match and will sing his name at the match, because he is our manager, but he has got no excuse not to finish second or better this year and be within 6 points of the league, or win it, with decisions like last night i cannot see it, somebody said on here before what was wrong with bringing yossi on he was an attacking outlet, what was wrong with leaving the 2 Ł46 million pound strikers on for a full 90 minutes. One word 'lucas'     

houllier is a better judge of a player in my view
rafa has bought more players which havent made it

houllier signed sinama pongolle who has gone on to become a top player with althetico madrid

Offline SallyCinnamon

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #294 on: January 20, 2009, 07:17:35 pm »
yep exactly, and he had proportionately less funds and he built the team that won the champions league, don't get me wrong i like Rafa, i think he has brought us a long way but there are people with a massive sentimental attachment to him and are satnding by him when everyone else can see he is bringing us down now with his unbelieveable decision making. i'm not one to boo or moan at the match and will sing his name at the match, because he is our manager, but he has got no excuse not to finish second or better this year and be within 6 points of the league, or win it, with decisions like last night i cannot see it, somebody said on here before what was wrong with bringing yossi on he was an attacking outlet, what was wrong with leaving the 2 Ł46 million pound strikers on for a full 90 minutes. One word 'lucas'     

You are pretty much all that is wrong with the type of fan who posts on RAWK,the fact you ask why he didn't keep Fernando & Keane on for the full 90 whilst getting there cost wrong and then try and blame that on Lucas says it fucking all.

You Sir are Clueless.
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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #295 on: January 20, 2009, 07:18:35 pm »
Did Mourinho change the team's mentality or did he change the fans' mentality?  ;D

Neither, he just taught the team how to cheat on an industrial scale - now that they cheat less, they win less.
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Offline SallyCinnamon

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #296 on: January 20, 2009, 07:18:38 pm »
houllier is a better judge of a player in my view
rafa has bought more players which havent made it

houllier signed sinama pongolle who has gone on to become a top player with althetico madrid

Please tell me you are fishing
Quote
Journalist: Without giving any secrets away, how do you practice when you haven't got a six foot seven player in the squad? How on earth can you prepare?
 
It's about beating him in the air, so we will use Mascherano against him!

NinjaVideo

Offline manicss01

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #297 on: January 20, 2009, 07:21:08 pm »
yep exactly, and he had proportionately less funds and he built the team that won the champions league, don't get me wrong i like Rafa, i think he has brought us a long way but there are people with a massive sentimental attachment to him and are satnding by him when everyone else can see he is bringing us down now with his unbelieveable decision making. i'm not one to boo or moan at the match and will sing his name at the match, because he is our manager, but he has got no excuse not to finish second or better this year and be within 6 points of the league, or win it, with decisions like last night i cannot see it, somebody said on here before what was wrong with bringing yossi on he was an attacking outlet, what was wrong with leaving the 2 Ł46 million pound strikers on for a full 90 minutes. One word 'lucas'     

What the fuck are you on about?

He has no excuse not to finish second or higher?

A) Man Utd
B) Chelsea
C) Both of the above have continually outspent us
D) One of the above have a manager who must blow officials before the match

Also...

Please tell me why (ONE GOOD REASON) you would have left Keane on yesterday?

Keane was taken off at 0-0. At this point we needed a goal. Keane was NEVER going to score. 4 minutes after he went on. Guess what happened.

Please tell me how, leaving torres on would have stopped cahill from skipping infront of Skrtel like a princess and nodding it in?

Torres was tired as fuck. I even thought he was injured. He was walking around up front.

Lucas basically WON us the derby last year, with his energy and enthusiasm. Please tell me why you wasnt calling him shit then?

And what the fuck do you mean what was wrong with bringing on Yossi? WHAT is your point? You didnt make one? He came on!

Finally - are you SERIOUSLY fucking saying that Houllier should be credited to the CL win in 2005?

Im not even going to tell you why thats the most rediculous statement iv ever heard.

PS = Who scored for us against chelsea? Against Juve? Garcia. Who scored in the final? Alonso. Which one of these was signed by houllier?

Offline SmallwoodRed

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #298 on: January 20, 2009, 07:21:08 pm »
-We are joint top of the league and its mid january. - due to our good start to the season and the other 3 being completely out of form.

-We have lost only once this season - this equals anything our title winning teams did by around this stage. but have drawn fuckin loads.

- We have picked up 7-9 points against the other big 3. again coz they have been poor and we have may aswell have not got any points from these games as we have lost 12 points by drawing with stoke twice, west ham, e'ton, fulham and hull city.

fair enough rafa has taken us a lot further than others in the past 4/5 years but he's had a lot of money to play about with and his stubborness and tactics are not helping us one bit, we are in a rutt and i can't see a way out of this.


You spend all that time trying to justify why being joint top is not good enough. Un fucking beliveable!

Offline lfcmaster

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #299 on: January 20, 2009, 07:21:34 pm »
Please tell me you are fishing

sorry but is a fact houllier finished 2nd rafa hasnt done that yet

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #300 on: January 20, 2009, 07:22:57 pm »
Neither, he just taught the team how to cheat on an industrial scale - now that they cheat less, they win less.
Hello Dr. Beaker Sir. Haven't seen you in ages.
You missed a cracker last night. I was gutted after the game so decided to cheer meslef up by posting a sack Rafa thread. You'd have laughed at some of the reponses.
But what really made me laugh is, I come in here and found 4 PM's congratulating me on finally saying what loads of them are thinking.

If I had a mind, it would truly boggle
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Offline martinjmmac5

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #301 on: January 20, 2009, 07:24:39 pm »
Do you know how many points we lost every year under shankly? Shitloads. Shankly didnt win the title by winning every fucking game. Teams drop points, like we did at stoke, get over it and support your team.
-Bringing Torres off did not lose us the fucking match. GET THAT IN YOUR HEAD.
-Whatever you just said means fuck all because it doesnt address the point that i make. THE FANS. Even at its lowest, THE FANS, should be behind the club. My point is still valid. You can talk about Lucas, Burgers or Stoke - my point was about the fans.

I am behind the club, go everywhere spend my well earned money and pay that mans wages. I don't boo i sing me heart out, i sing his fuckin name. you can still be behind the club and criticise, if everyone had exactly the same opinion there would be no point in anything would there. So if you say whatever we should all be behing the club whatever happens, you're all moaning about Houllier and were at the time, so there is a contradiction because you weren't behind the club then if you voiced an opinion on him.
as for rafa his interview was mostly right, bit embarrasing when we drew after it against stoke but ya can't win every game, but the bit where he basically said, i will sign the contract if i can have total control of the club, where's the fuckin hierarchy, he wants to not have to answer to anybody, he wants to be a shareholder, chairman, director, manager, Everthing needs a fuckin hierarchy the tit!!! Fair enough Parry is a beaut but it is irrelevant who it is, the fact remains rafael benitez cannot run the club on his own, he has to be answerable to somebody. Rafa tinted glasses well and truly fixed to some peoples heads.
as for all your stats about how many points we had at this stage when we finished 2nd, at the end of the season when positions matter, we were higher than what benitez has done, the stats don't lie.
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Offline manicss01

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #302 on: January 20, 2009, 07:24:41 pm »
houllier is a better judge of a player in my view
rafa has bought more players which havent made it

houllier signed sinama pongolle who has gone on to become a top player with althetico madrid

As somebody just said,

please tell me your taking the piss you deluded idiot.

Sinama Pongolle? Top Player? DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHERE ATLETICO ARE IN THE LEAGUE YOU FNCKING IDIOT? i thought not.

I cant believe you just said that..i literally cant. HALL OF SHAME please.

Quote
sorry but is a fact houllier finished 2nd rafa hasnt done that yet

Houllier never won the CL (the most prestigious european competition), has Rafa? YES.

Offline In the Name of Klopp

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #303 on: January 20, 2009, 07:25:40 pm »
Ferguson must be reading this thread and laughing his ass off! Some of our fans are acting like small spoiled kids. Instead of whinning, stay behind the team and the gaffer.
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Offline SallyCinnamon

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #304 on: January 20, 2009, 07:25:59 pm »
sorry but is a fact houllier finished 2nd rafa hasnt done that yet

Still fishing ? I was talking about this load of shite you posted.

houllier is a better judge of a player in my view
rafa has bought more players which havent made it

houllier signed sinama pongolle who has gone on to become a top player with althetico madrid
Quote
Journalist: Without giving any secrets away, how do you practice when you haven't got a six foot seven player in the squad? How on earth can you prepare?
 
It's about beating him in the air, so we will use Mascherano against him!

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Offline lfcmaster

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #305 on: January 20, 2009, 07:26:40 pm »
As somebody just said,

please tell me your taking the piss you deluded idiot.

Sinama Pongolle? Top Player? DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHERE ATLETICO ARE IN THE LEAGUE YOU FNCKING IDIOT? i thought not.

I cant believe you just said that..i literally cant. HALL OF SHAME please.

Houllier never won the CL (the most prestigious european competition), has Rafa? YES.


give houllier credit most of his team did win the final

Offline manicss01

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #306 on: January 20, 2009, 07:27:21 pm »
Do you know how many points we lost every year under shankly? Shitloads. Shankly didnt win the title by winning every fucking game. Teams drop points, like we did at stoke, get over it and support your team.
-Bringing Torres off did not lose us the fucking match. GET THAT IN YOUR HEAD.
-Whatever you just said means fuck all because it doesnt address the point that i make. THE FANS. Even at its lowest, THE FANS, should be behind the club. My point is still valid. You can talk about Lucas, Burgers or Stoke - my point was about the fans.

I am behind the club, go everywhere spend my well earned money and pay that mans wages. I don't boo i sing me heart out, i sing his fuckin name. you can still be behind the club and criticise, if everyone had exactly the same opinion there would be no point in anything would there. So if you say whatever we should all be behing the club whatever happens, you're all moaning about Houllier and were at the time, so there is a contradiction because you weren't behind the club then if you voiced an opinion on him.
as for rafa his interview was mostly right, bit embarrasing when we drew after it against stoke but ya can't win every game, but the bit where he basically said, i will sign the contract if i can have total control of the club, where's the fuckin hierarchy, he wants to not have to answer to anybody, he wants to be a shareholder, chairman, director, manager, Everthing needs a fuckin hierarchy the tit!!! Fair enough Parry is a beaut but it is irrelevant who it is, the fact remains rafael benitez cannot run the club on his own, he has to be answerable to somebody. Rafa tinted glasses well and truly fixed to some peoples heads.
as for all your stats about how many points we had at this stage when we finished 2nd, at the end of the season when positions matter, we were higher than what benitez has done, the stats don't lie.

Check the bit in bold.

Now please fucking tell me why the fuck you are judging rafa in january?

Offline martinjmmac5

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #307 on: January 20, 2009, 07:27:40 pm »

You spend all that time trying to justify why being joint top is not good enough. Un fucking beliveable!


We are joint top on our good start to the season, we are on a slippery slope thats gonna get more slippery if he doesnt get a grip..... of Lucas' hair and drag him out the ground or at least not put him on to defend in a derby against everton, or put him in central midfield against teams like stoke who are big and kick people round the pitch. Why was mascherano not brought on??? answer me that please WHY???
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Offline se9R.F.L

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #308 on: January 20, 2009, 07:27:48 pm »
Do you know how many points we lost every year under shankly? Shitloads. Shankly didnt win the title by winning every fucking game. Teams drop points, like we did at stoke, get over it and support your team.
-Bringing Torres off did not lose us the fucking match. GET THAT IN YOUR HEAD.
-Whatever you just said means fuck all because it doesnt address the point that i make. THE FANS. Even at its lowest, THE FANS, should be behind the club. My point is still valid. You can talk about Lucas, Burgers or Stoke - my point was about the fans.

I am behind the club, go everywhere spend my well earned money and pay that mans wages. I don't boo i sing me heart out, i sing his fuckin name. you can still be behind the club and criticise, if everyone had exactly the same opinion there would be no point in anything would there. So if you say whatever we should all be behing the club whatever happens, you're all moaning about Houllier and were at the time, so there is a contradiction because you weren't behind the club then if you voiced an opinion on him.
as for rafa his interview was mostly right, bit embarrasing when we drew after it against stoke but ya can't win every game, but the bit where he basically said, i will sign the contract if i can have total control of the club, where's the fuckin hierarchy, he wants to not have to answer to anybody, he wants to be a shareholder, chairman, director, manager, Everthing needs a fuckin hierarchy the tit!!! Fair enough Parry is a beaut but it is irrelevant who it is, the fact remains rafael benitez cannot run the club on his own, he has to be answerable to somebody. Rafa tinted glasses well and truly fixed to some peoples heads.
as for all your stats about how many points we had at this stage when we finished 2nd, at the end of the season when positions matter, we were higher than what benitez has done, the stats don't lie.
Bringing Torres off saved him from getting kicked up and down any more, wise move in my oppinion

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #309 on: January 20, 2009, 07:28:03 pm »
Well, I finally got round to reading the answers. I intended to answer them, but, in all honesty, once I saw your answer for a replacement manager was Mourinho I changed my mind. In fact, I nearly lost the will to live.
Me and  KOTP crossed swords in another thread about Rafa. He kept saying Rafa didn't act in the "Liverpool Way." I'd like to go on about the Liverpool way, but I've done that in other threads. But I'll say this.... Mourinho is the absolute anti-christ of the Liverpool way.

I honestly, personally hate the man that much that if he ever did become manager of LFC, I would stop going to all games immeadiately and wouldn't go to another until he was gone. And that's coming from a man who has been going to watch Liverpool for 45 years.

And once I saw his name, I was tempted to just print Fuck off in highlighted capitals, but I'll try to be above me usual self. But take it from me, Mourinho would truly be the final nail in the coffin of The Liverpool Way.

On top of that, Mourinho is also basically a very cautious manager. His teams play shit on a stick football and grind out very boring 1 - 0 wins. But why let facts like that stand in the way when finding another alternative is so hard if not impossible.

Also, did you not see Rafa's Valencia play? Boring, defensive football, I think not. We are work in progress - results and substance must come before flair. The hardest title to win is the first one. Style can be added once it's in the cabinet. They also seem to come in clusters too. And let's be honest.. who can honestly say they haven't been thrilled with some of our football during Rafa's shift?

Quick word on The Liverpool Way... it never just evolved or materialised out of the blue. Bill and Bob fought the board tooth and nail to make them conduct business in that manner. And Bill was never shy about going public with any of his gripes, or using us fans to help him push for what he wanted. We also had great men like John Smith and Peter Robinson conducting business for us - the exact polar opposites of Parry and H&G.

But anyway, instead of answering the answers, I will say this... I honestly think a lot of this stems from the fact that we have been completely ruined as fans by our success. In fact, Rafa created a terrible rod for his own back by winning the CL in his first season. Our expectations are quite laughable at times and no wonder fans of other clubs call us Whingeing Scousers.

Even through the lean years we have picked up trophies and our record would have been perfectly acceptable at other clubs. Imagine Portsmouth having the success we've had in the Ged/Rafa years. Fuck me. they made Harry Redknapp a free man of the city for winning the FA Cup. They even gave it to the spiv bastard after he'd kicked shit in their face and went to Spurs - a full two days after he'd fucked off.

We're not Pompey you will say. I know we are not - we boo when going top of the league. They sing non stop when getting twatted 8 - 0. But other than that, we have things in common - we're both skint and we have turmoil in the boardroom. But we expect, no demand, to win league titles against the most formidable richest opponents we have ever faced.

I think alot of this has to do with this fucking awful time of instant celebrity, fame and riches. No one wants to earn things now. A lot of young people have a smaller attention span than a goldfish. Yeah. I might be an auld bastard, but I don't watch highlights of Man U or Arsenal on MOTD and think they play like that for 90 minutes week in week out. And I'm certainly not having a go at young people. I know some cracking young reds. But it does seem to be an age thing. The problem is building a successful football team and leaving a lasting legace, still requires the sort of time it did in the glory years. I never hear any of these gripes in the auld arse thread.

After Saturday's wonder goal, one young fella on here said to me in all seriousness... We should buy Koncheski. When I pointed out the last time he scored a goal, it was really a cock up of a cross against us I was just surprised he even remembered we'd been to Cardiff. That's why I just say fuck off to most people who have lost faith in Rafa - they haven't got a fucking clue and just regurgitate what they are force fed by the media. "Skywashed" as someone on here named it.

I've no idea how old the OP is, but I just wish people like KOTP - who's probably far cleverer than me - would take the time to think of what could happen if Rafa jumps or is pushed.

Where would that leave us? In complete disarray, I'd think. And how long would it take us to pull out of it? Lets face it, even if a great manager was to come in under the best of circumstances, it would still take him time to implement his plans. I think, well, I'm practically certain, Arsene Wenger won the league in his first attempt. But he did take over a great side and had/has a good boardroom behind him.

So KOTP, as me Ninna would say, be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

Rafa sackers, really need to develop a little patientce. His lot is not an easy one. The boardroom will never give him there full support - we should.

But if he hasn't delivered the title in a couple of season's, when he's been allowed to buy the players he wants - within a set budget - I will join you. But I won't be doing it in slyly veiled little snipes. I'll be calling for his head good and proper. But until that time has clearly come, I'm fucked if I want to lose the best manager we've had since Sir Bob before he's had time to finish the job.

:wellin

Offline Fat Scouser

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #310 on: January 20, 2009, 07:28:46 pm »
Fuck me. I finally take the time to think of something worth saying, put in all the effort to write and it gets lost in the quagmire of RAWK.
Taught me a lesson that - back to pure piss taking from now on then.
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Offline SallyCinnamon

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #311 on: January 20, 2009, 07:29:35 pm »
Bringing Torres off saved him from getting kicked up and down any more, wise move in my oppinion
Yes but you don't want to see Rafas head on a pike .
Quote
Journalist: Without giving any secrets away, how do you practice when you haven't got a six foot seven player in the squad? How on earth can you prepare?
 
It's about beating him in the air, so we will use Mascherano against him!

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Offline se9R.F.L

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #312 on: January 20, 2009, 07:30:14 pm »
Ha ha i did the same Fat scouser, ungrateful swines on here

Offline SallyCinnamon

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #313 on: January 20, 2009, 07:30:34 pm »
Fuck me. I finally take the time to think of something worth saying, put in all the effort to write and it gets lost in the quagmire of RAWK.
Taught me a lesson that - back to pure piss taking from now on then.

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Quote
Journalist: Without giving any secrets away, how do you practice when you haven't got a six foot seven player in the squad? How on earth can you prepare?
 
It's about beating him in the air, so we will use Mascherano against him!

NinjaVideo

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #314 on: January 20, 2009, 07:31:01 pm »
Yes but you don't want to see Rafas head on a pike .
Tis true, must be my old rose tinted specs again

Offline martinjmmac5

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #315 on: January 20, 2009, 07:32:56 pm »
Check the bit in bold.

Now please fucking tell me why the fuck you are judging rafa in january?

I'm not judging him i am saying his decisions are ridiculous and i am predicting and discussing that if he keeps being this stubborn we will be fucked, i can't be the only one seeing that his tactics are terrible, saw lucas and yossi last night comin on and there was a collective sigh from the kop, can he not hear this can he not see this
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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #316 on: January 20, 2009, 07:33:30 pm »
give houllier credit most of his team did win the final

Houlliers team did win the CL. Only execptions were Garcia and Alonso and feel free to add the 1 or 2 names I am missing.

It annoys me when people slag of Ged. He did a lot of great things for this club. Granted, his time came to an end, but he played his part.

Offline mjgill85

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #317 on: January 20, 2009, 07:34:04 pm »
houllier is a better judge of a player in my view
rafa has bought more players which havent made it
Try comparing the squad of players Houllier left us with and the squad we have now
I think it's interesting to see exactly how far we've come in those 4 years, purely in terms of quality of player. By my reckoning we only have 3 players who were here when Rafa arrived; Benitez has well and truly ripped up the squad he inherited and built his own.

I tried to pair off players as closely as possible (age, ability, what role they perform) although that's not the point of this post. Rather it's looking down this list and comparing what we had to what we have:


Squad Inherited By RafaSquad Built By Rafa
Jerzy DudekJose Reina
Chris KirklandDiego Cavalieri
Markus BabbelPhilipp Degen
Jamie CarragherJamie Carragher
Steve FinnanÁlvaro Arbeloa
Stephane HenchozMartin Skrtel
Sami HyypiaSami Hyypia
John Arne RiiseFábio Aurélio
Djimi TraoreDaniel Agger
Gregory VignalAndrea Dossena
Igor BiscanXabi Alonso
Bruno CheyrouJermaine Pennant
Salif DiaoDamien Plessis
Steven GerrardSteven Gerrard
Dietmar HamannJavier Mascherano
Harry KewellAlbert Riera
Anthony Le TallecNabil El Zhar
Danny MurphyLucas Leiva
Vladimir SmicerYossi Benayoun
Milan BarosRobbie Keane
El Hadji DioufDirk Kuyt
Neil MellorDavid Ngog
Florent Sinama-PongolleRyan Babel
Michael OwenFernando Torres
   
* Cisse, Heskey, Diarra, Itandje and Voronin not included (for varying reasons)


I think most would agree that Gerrard and Carragher have progressed while Hyypia has regressed slightly due to age. Babbel to Degen looks a downgrade but we haven't really seen anything of Degen yet and Babbel only played 13 games for us in his final 2 years. You could make an argument that 2004 Finnan was better than 2008 Arbeloa, but the difference (if any) is marginal. I believe that the other 19 changes are either sideways moves or upgrades, some minimal and some massive.
@_michaelgill

Offline amir87

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #318 on: January 20, 2009, 07:34:27 pm »
But what really made me laugh is, I come in here and found 4 PM's congratulating me on finally saying what loads of them are thinking.

 ;D

Offline martinjmmac5

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Re: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"
« Reply #319 on: January 20, 2009, 07:36:51 pm »
Bringing Torres off saved him from getting kicked up and down any more, wise move in my oppinion

We scored with 20 minutes left and took of our 1 remaining striker for lucas leiva and we then attempted to sit back against everton F.C that gerrard goal should have been the base for a 2 or 3 niller, instead it was the base to stop playing football. By taking Torres off we then had no attacking outlet to hold the ball up we were playing on the edge of our own box because there was nothing over the half way line.
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