Author Topic: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS  (Read 68955 times)

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #200 on: January 6, 2016, 02:56:15 am »
I was just flicking though the channels and Fox news were talking to the prosecutor about this program and he was saying that the program makers left out important bits of evidence presented at the trial but wasn't in the program.

And now they are talking to the defense lawyer and he agrees they did miss things given in evidence out from the program.

so I guess we didn't get the full story.

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #201 on: January 6, 2016, 03:10:08 am »
I was just flicking though the channels and Fox news were talking to the prosecutor about this program and he was saying that the program makers left out important bits of evidence presented at the trial but wasn't in the program.

And now they are talking to the defense lawyer and he agrees they did miss things given in evidence out from the program.

so I guess we didn't get the full story.



Left out things such as him answering the door in a towel, watching pornography and owning handcuffs etc. All of which would point me to being a murderer too :D

In all seriousness, there's a list of things left out and it's been discussed at length. The defense actually said these things were left out but were unimportant. There was also things left out of the documentary which would favour the defense. Such as one of the jurors being a father of the sheriffs deputy etc.

And of course one the of jurors saying they didn't find him guilty but was scared for their life, in addition to trading votes on certain sentencing etc. (see what I posted above). Though this probably came out after the documentary was aired.
:D

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #202 on: January 6, 2016, 03:21:21 am »
Left out things such as him answering the door in a towel, watching pornography and owning handcuffs etc. All of which would point me to being a murderer too :D

In all seriousness, there's a list of things left out and it's been discussed at length. The defense actually said these things were left out but were unimportant. There was also things left out of the documentary which would favour the defense. Such as one of the jurors being a father of the sheriffs deputy etc.

And of course one the of jurors saying they didn't find him guilty but was scared for their life, in addition to trading votes on certain sentencing etc. (see what I posted above). Though this probably came out after the documentary was aired.

One of the things was something about her burnt bones in a firepit outside their house,

Not saying they are guilty just what they said.
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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #203 on: January 6, 2016, 04:48:43 am »
A blog about the validity of the EDTA testing on the blood evidence, and the DNA found on the bullet.

http://chadsteele.blogspot.com.au/2016/01/some-clarity-to-some-of-evidence-in.html?m=1
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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #204 on: January 6, 2016, 05:14:20 am »
More from the interview with the creators, they explain about jurors trading votes etc.

This has only come out today, I'm guessing if this can be verified then there's some serious grounds here for a retrial. You like to think if this is a legitimate claim then at least 1 other juror will step forward (though maybe they could get in trouble?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-HH3yDHPbM&feature=youtu.be
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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #205 on: January 6, 2016, 05:59:37 am »
I did read this...

A juror may not impeach the verdict as to misconduct inside or outside the jury room after the jury is discharged. *Tanner v. United States*, 483 U.S. 107 (1987).

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #206 on: January 6, 2016, 06:10:54 am »
I did read this...

A juror may not impeach the verdict as to misconduct inside or outside the jury room after the jury is discharged. *Tanner v. United States*, 483 U.S. 107 (1987).



It's a bit tricky isn't it!

:D

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #207 on: January 6, 2016, 08:41:12 am »
One of the things was something about her burnt bones in a firepit outside their house,

Not saying they are guilty just what they said.

That was in the doc through right? His lawyer argued that the bones could have been moved there and an expert agreed.
They should go and feast on another dead corpse this one is alive and kicking and it will bite you fucking head off.

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #208 on: January 6, 2016, 09:51:34 am »
Left out things such as him answering the door in a towel, watching pornography and owning handcuffs etc. All of which would point me to being a murderer too :D


While I don't think either should have been convicted as the trials were biased, corrupted and ridiculous...there were a few impotent pieces of evidence left out of the documentary.
I think Avery calling her phone several times that day and disguising his number...also him asking for her specifically, definitely make you question it more.
The documentary makes out that she just randomly came out once and took pics then disappeared but she'd been there a few times, At Avery's request and was even creeped out by him.

The stuff about the shackles being found in Avery's home, similar to those described in Dassey's statement.


Of course, any 'found' evidence is suspect as the police may well have planted it...but the stuff that was left out of documentary so as to make Avery look better or less guilty, is worse IMO.

There is more and most is circumstantial of course regarding Avery... the abuse of relatives, women coming forward saying he raped them, him drawing diagrams in prison of torturing a woman using shackles and bragging to inmates that he would do something like that.

But there is a lot of food for thought regarding this case, a lot more than the documentary shows or how it shows.
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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #209 on: January 6, 2016, 10:08:54 am »
The point of the documentary was not to argue for the innocence of Steven Avery.

And all of this 'evidence' that was left out is fairly weak in my opinion. And has been fairly soundly debunked on here, reddit, and the like.
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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #211 on: January 6, 2016, 10:29:47 am »
The point of the documentary was not to argue for the innocence of Steven Avery.

And all of this 'evidence' that was left out is fairly weak in my opinion. And has been fairly soundly debunked on here, reddit, and the like.


I know it wasn't, I've stated as much myself on the last page.
But that doesn't mean discussion of the evidence or having doubts after hearing the new evidence, isn't worthwhile.
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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #212 on: January 6, 2016, 01:59:42 pm »
One of the things was something about her burnt bones in a firepit outside their house,

This was included within the documentary, many, many times.
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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #213 on: January 6, 2016, 02:40:11 pm »

I think Avery calling her phone several times that day and disguising his number...also him asking for her specifically, definitely make you question it more.
The documentary makes out that she just randomly came out once and took pics then disappeared but she'd been there a few times

I'm not sure it covered up that he had been there more than once to be fair- it may well have covered up him calling disguising his number though, I'm not sure whether I learned that before or after the documentary.

Quote
At Avery's request and was even creeped out by him.

Kratz says that but can you link me to who said that, friend of hers presumably?

Quote
The stuff about the shackles being found in Avery's home, similar to those described in Dassey's statement.

Leg braces weren't they? He had handcuffs as well. He explained them away as something he bought to try out with Lori, but clearly that is dodgy. Having said that, if you believe that part of Dassey's story then you must believe she was stabbed in the bedroom and there was a distinct lack of her DNA evidence anywhere in that bedroom.

Quote
But there is a lot of food for thought regarding this case, a lot more than the documentary shows or how it shows.

I would imagine that the lawyers and the creators have their own theories but they are unable to really come out and say publicly exactly what they think may have happened. Like I said earlier, I still am not sure whether Steven Avery did it or not, like his own lawyer, I certainly wouldn't rule it out, but the evidence that is physical completely refutes their statements.

I tend to agree with the lawyer in that the police force felt that Steven was guilty and then cut corners to ensure a conviction, including manipulation of evidence and tunnel vision in purely focusing on him. I believe the documentaries main aim was to highlight at the very least (as I can't remember it all)

*How in some cases the assumption of innocence has gone - the movement from proving the accused guilty, to the accused proving themselves innocent.
*The insanity of someone giving a televised press conference detailing the crime in gory and disgusting detail (which may not even have been correct) before a trial even came to pass.
*The fact that Dassey and Avery were essentially tried for two different versions of the crime via the criminal justice system and still both found guilty
*The seemingly underhand methods from the Sherrif's police force who seemingly had motivation to make sure that the crime was pinned on Avery when they should have vacated for another police force- yet continued to flagrantly keep themselves involved.
*The ways in which police can press the young or people with low IQ's into confessing to something they may not have done.

All of these are pertinent points that are perhaps more important than Avery himself. But despite the evidence that the documentary makers didn't show (which isn't that much more as far as I am concerned)

The blood vial was suspiciously accessed and had a hole in the top
The key was on the balance of probabilities planted in Steven Avery's house
The bones were moved nearer to Steven Avery's house - why would Steven himself do that?
Colborn called in the plates of the missing car two days before it was found on Avery's property
It is is more than likely that the bullet was planted in the garage
The garage was suspiciously void of her DNA despite the states case being that she was shot anything from 5 to 10 times in there
Scientists calling into question the validity of the ETBA test - http://chadsteele.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/some-clarity-to-some-of-evidence-in.html?m=1
If Avery/Dassey had managed to clean the entirety of the garage and the bedroom for DNA, it's crazy that they didn't think to clean blood from the van. 

I'm sure there may have been other little things they didn't include from the defence as well.

For what it's worth I can't shake the fact that she must have met her end on that property which shortens the suspects to Steven, Brandon and all of the others who lived there- it would take collusion and corruption of a seriously incredible scale to move a body that been burned there just to frame Steven Avery when there is every chance it could go wrong - although having said that I doubt much was tested for Colborn and Jenk's DNA.

Unless something changes or new information develops, from the evidence I can see, circumstantial against Steven Avery is strong-ish, I couldn't of good conscience find him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The fact that this case has so many people talking is evidence of reasonable doubt alone and I can't help thinking that it is a shame that the police didn't cast their net wider at first in terms of all the potential suspects on the Avery site, before honing in on one.
« Last Edit: January 6, 2016, 02:49:20 pm by Hij »
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #214 on: January 6, 2016, 03:30:17 pm »
For what it's worth I can't shake the fact that she must have met her end on that property ...

I don't think that's evident at all.  Again this is all supposition and speculation but:

1.  it makes no sense to murder someone in the trailer (Dassey's trial) or garage (Avery's trial) and then put them in the back of the SUV to transport the body a few yards to the supposed 'fire pit'.

2. Holborne calling in the licence plate is evidence towards the idea that the Halbach's car was found elsewhere and then moved to the Avery salvage yard to point the finger at Avery. If Holborne had found the SUV in the salvage yard he'd have called it in straight away.

3. No blood or DNA evidence was found in either the trailer or the garage of Halbach's rape, torture and murder. This was despite the police having eight days to ransack the trailer and the concrete floor of the garage being broken up.

4. Dassey's whole confession was clearly coerced and patent nonsense.

5. The general disconnect between the criminal genius Avery who could forensically clean every trace of DNA and blood from the crime scene, and the idiot Avery who burnt the body openly in his back yard and then parked the SUV (with convenient blood stains) on his own property and rather than throwing the key away after hiding it, decided to take it back home and wedge it behind a bookcase...

If Avery did do it then the scenario would probably have been that Avery acted alone. That he killed her elsewhere then transported her body in the SUV to the quarry where he burnt it and then dumped the SUV somewhere in that area. Holborne found the burnt remains and the car and used them to frame Avery.

Edit - I don't think there would be any 'danger' in transporting the remains from a burn site to the Avery property if you're driving a Police car.

Of course that scenario could also work with a number of other suspects.

I think Dassey is innocent, no question.

I think Avery was framed, but may have been 'framed' for a crime he actually committed.
« Last Edit: January 6, 2016, 03:33:01 pm by Alan_X »
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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #215 on: January 6, 2016, 03:34:01 pm »
Don't forget, despite his blood being in the SUV, he left no fingerprints.
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Offline mkingdon

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #216 on: January 6, 2016, 03:37:44 pm »
Avery had a car crusher on site....had he killed her on his property with her car sat there, it would make a lot of sense to crush it rather than hide it with a few branches and hope no-one found his blood!

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #217 on: January 6, 2016, 03:45:45 pm »
If Avery did do it then the scenario would probably have been that Avery acted alone. That he killed her elsewhere then transported her body in the SUV to the quarry where he burnt it and then dumped the SUV somewhere in that area. Holborne found the burnt remains and the car and used them to frame Avery.
This seems a lot more likely.

I know you can't read much into faces at a trial one way or the other, but the look on Colborn's face is a picture when it's brought up that he said the make of the car first. As the lawyer points out, who knows that when the two others crossed paths on the road, that there wasn't Halbach in the back or the boot of the car.

I think we can all be in agreement it certainly didn't go down the way the state claimed.
« Last Edit: January 6, 2016, 03:47:25 pm by Hij »
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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #218 on: January 6, 2016, 03:46:55 pm »
Avery had a car crusher on site....had he killed her on his property with her car sat there, it would make a lot of sense to crush it rather than hide it with a few branches and hope no-one found his blood!

I think it takes time to prepare a car for crushing.

Did he not also have a smelter? Or am I making that up?
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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #219 on: January 6, 2016, 03:49:13 pm »
I think it takes time to prepare a car for crushing.

Did he not also have a smelter? Or am I making that up?

Either way, it was the family business to scrap cars and he had a few days between "killing her" and the car being found so I think he had time to do a better job than was claimed.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #220 on: January 6, 2016, 04:09:26 pm »
As I posted earlier - I'd recommend people watch the West Memphis Three documentaries. Clear differences but the similarities are there to see.

The coerced confession of a young person with learning difficulties. Dassey in this case, Misskelly in West Memphis

The trial of someone by the way they looked and their interests first and the evidence second. It seemed like the main evidence against Damian Echols was that he wore black, had an interest in the Wiccan religion and listened to Metallica. After that evidence was irrelevant. Being white trash, interested in bondage or being a bit of an unpleasant individual doesn't make you a murderer. See also Colin Stagg in this country.

The ease with which people in the Bible Belt / small town America accept religious concepts of good and evil over nuanced ideas about guilt and innocence.

The use of 'experts' by the prosecution and how juries will tend to accept the prosecution experts even when it's fairly evident their evidence is suspect. Nothing in the Avery case quite matched the cross examination of the prosecution's 'expert' in satanic abuse who got his PhD via a correspondence course without any study or exams. 

It's also fascinating to listen to Echols in the second film describing why he came across as a bit of a dick in the first film. At the time he made the (almost fatal) error of believing that if you didn't do something, then you won't be found guilty. So he did all the smart arse teenage cynicism because it seemed cool at the time.

I found the first two on YouTube with Spanish subtitles. Still looking for the last one.

Hopefully this will be the start of something like the BBC's Rough Justice series that did so much to force change in this country's justice system.
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #221 on: January 6, 2016, 04:15:33 pm »
Either way, it was the family business to scrap cars and he had a few days between "killing her" and the car being found so I think he had time to do a better job than was claimed.

Nah - it's obvious that you don't crush the car - you park it close to the yard entrance and cover it in a few branches so 'God' can help it be found.

Incidentally, if God knew what was going on wouldn't he have err... stopped her being killed? Rather than let her be horribly raped, tortured and murdered, her body chopped up and burnt but then using his powers to help the car be found?
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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #222 on: January 6, 2016, 04:21:37 pm »
Nah - it's obvious that you don't crush the car - you park it close to the yard entrance and cover it in a few branches so 'God' can help it be found.

Incidentally, if God knew what was going on wouldn't he have err... stopped her being killed? Rather than let her be horribly raped, tortured and murdered, her body chopped up and burnt but then using his powers to help the car be found?
God works in mysterious ways. It's a nice get out clause for him.
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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #223 on: January 6, 2016, 04:22:03 pm »
Don't forget, despite his blood being in the SUV, he left no fingerprints.

The DNA evidence they found on the hood latch that belonged to Avery was Sweat...Not blood so couldn't have been planted using the vial.
They may have planted the sweat DNA too but his blood AND his sweat were both found on/in her SUV.
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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #224 on: January 6, 2016, 04:24:37 pm »
God works in mysterious ways. It's a nice get out clause for him.
:lmao
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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #225 on: January 6, 2016, 04:25:11 pm »
As I posted earlier - I'd recommend people watch the West Memphis Three documentaries. Clear differences but the similarities are there to see.

On it mate thanks.
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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #226 on: January 6, 2016, 04:28:30 pm »
The DNA evidence they found on the hood latch that belonged to Avery was Sweat...Not blood so couldn't have been planted using the vial.
They may have planted the sweat DNA too but his blood AND his sweat were both found on/in her SUV.
Which doesn;t explain why there were no fingerprints.

Of course in the doc, they focused on his cut finger, saying if he was wearing gloves he couldn't have left blood, but ignore the fact he would have had other cuts.

But overall I agree with Alan; for a criminal genius he's a big fucking idiot if it went down as the Prosecution say.
Anyone else being strangely drawn to Dion Dublin's nipples?

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #227 on: January 6, 2016, 04:30:41 pm »
The DNA evidence they found on the hood latch that belonged to Avery was Sweat...Not blood so couldn't have been planted using the vial.
They may have planted the sweat DNA too but his blood AND his sweat were both found on/in her SUV.

I don't think sweat contains DNA. The DNA would be from shed skin cells if present and the police had access to Avery's property for days.
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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #228 on: January 6, 2016, 04:44:16 pm »
Nah - it's obvious that you don't crush the car - you park it close to the yard entrance and cover it in a few branches so 'God' can help it be found.

To be fair, there might have been reasons not to use the crusher. Putting the car somewhere on the lot is probably quicker than putting it in the crusher, taking it out and putting it some place. There were shitloads of cars in the whole area and I'd imagine there were much less crushed cars there, so even if the RAV4 had been crushed it might have been easier to spot for someone who was looking for it. Crushing the car might also have drawn more attention by the other people living there even if they are family. So, I'd say the car not having been crushed is not a very good argument in favour of Avery. It says nothing at all in my view...

Offline johnsmithlfc

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #229 on: January 6, 2016, 04:58:24 pm »
I don't think sweat contains DNA. The DNA would be from shed skin cells if present and the police had access to Avery's property for days.


That's what they say... Sweat/Skin Cell DNA


Quote
This info, not in the docu-series, may potentially prove to be somewhat key.

In his opening argument at the Dassey trial, Kratz states Steve Avery's sweat/skin cell DNA was recovered from the RAV4 hood latch in April 2006, from a swabbing reportedly conducted due to investigators' (Fassbender and Wiegert) conversation with Brendan, in which he was prompted by investigators to agree that Steve Avery had opened up the RAV 4 hood (more on this in a moment).

    Kratz: "Was Teresa's car hood opened up by Uncle Steve as Brendan says? Well, on Aprll 3, again, as a result of Brendan's statements, law enforcement swabs -- they take a Q-tip and -- and they swab the hood latch, reaching up underneath the hood, just to see if we can get a a DNA profile. Sherry Culhane does. She gets a full profile that's Steven Avery's sweat. Steven Avery's sweat is found on the hood latch, just like should happen if Brendan is to believed that Uncle Steve went under the hood."
    SOURCE: Brendan Dassey's Trial, Day 1 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/c9ow4lwzec007mi/dassey_4_16_07.pdf?dl=0
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Offline johnsmithlfc

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #230 on: January 6, 2016, 04:59:52 pm »
Which doesn;t explain why there were no fingerprints.

Of course in the doc, they focused on his cut finger, saying if he was wearing gloves he couldn't have left blood, but ignore the fact he would have had other cuts.

But overall I agree with Alan; for a criminal genius he's a big fucking idiot if it went down as the Prosecution say.


For sure mate, As i've said the case was a joke and should not have seen either man/boy convicted.
If he did do it (Avery) then they still planted stuff and it was not beyond reasonable doubt that he did it.

So yeah...
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively - Bob Marley

Offline johnsmithlfc

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #231 on: January 6, 2016, 05:02:07 pm »
Which doesn;t explain why there were no fingerprints.

Of course in the doc, they focused on his cut finger, saying if he was wearing gloves he couldn't have left blood, but ignore the fact he would have had other cuts.

But overall I agree with Alan; for a criminal genius he's a big fucking idiot if it went down as the Prosecution say.


Well my only point was that it wasn't only the one "blood" splatter bit they got that they showed in the SUV.
His blood was found in like 4 different places inside the SUV and his sweat/Skin cell DNA found on the hood latch.
None of this was mentioned in the documentary, it made in look like just that one little smear was found and that's all.

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Offline Brian Blessed

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #232 on: January 6, 2016, 05:05:03 pm »
I think they showed at least two and mentioned three. And after the blood test, his lawyers complained they tested swabs taken from just one splatter.
Anyone else being strangely drawn to Dion Dublin's nipples?

Offline Craig S

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #233 on: January 6, 2016, 05:09:27 pm »

Well my only point was that it wasn't only the one "blood" splatter bit they got that they showed in the SUV.
His blood was found in like 4 different places inside the SUV and his sweat/Skin cell DNA found on the hood latch.
None of this was mentioned in the documentary, it made in look like just that one little smear was found and that's all.



They stated there were 6 in the rav4. The defence questioned the expert about the other 3, as well as the 3 that were tested. They also showed still visuals of the blood on the dash, on the step by the door, and in the footwell.

When they talked about the blood in the car, they did show the same blood splatter in further references. But to say the doc didn't mention them is false.

EDIT: It's episode 6, Testing The Evidence: Steven's attorneys cross-examine forensic experts about contaminated evidence and the absence of proof linking Steven to the crime.
« Last Edit: January 6, 2016, 05:12:28 pm by Craig S »

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #234 on: January 6, 2016, 05:20:04 pm »

That's what they say... Sweat/Skin Cell DNA

Two things. 

1. It's from Brendan Dassey's confession. Which was clearly coerced and unreliable and makes anything found because of it suspect.

2. If I had the run of your house, garage and property for 8 days unhindered I'm pretty sure I could find a few of your skin cells.

Oh and it also relies on acceptance that the Q-tip swab actually came from the hood latch. Chain of custody and isolation of the crime scene was not good in this case.

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Offline johnsmithlfc

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #235 on: January 6, 2016, 05:27:17 pm »
They stated there were 6 in the rav4. The defence questioned the expert about the other 3, as well as the 3 that were tested. They also showed still visuals of the blood on the dash, on the step by the door, and in the footwell.

When they talked about the blood in the car, they did show the same blood splatter in further references. But to say the doc didn't mention them is false.

EDIT: It's episode 6, Testing The Evidence: Steven's attorneys cross-examine forensic experts about contaminated evidence and the absence of proof linking Steven to the crime.


Fair enough I binged it, they probably did cover it.
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Offline HighSix

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #236 on: January 6, 2016, 05:27:32 pm »
I think Avery was framed, but may have been 'framed' for a crime he actually committed.

Thats how I feel & they probably could have got a 'clean' conviction if they actually did their job from the start.

Would love to know what his lawyers honestly think.

Offline johnsmithlfc

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #237 on: January 6, 2016, 05:28:09 pm »
Two things. 

1. It's from Brendan Dassey's confession. Which was clearly coerced and unreliable and makes anything found because of it suspect.

2. If I had the run of your house, garage and property for 8 days unhindered I'm pretty sure I could find a few of your skin cells.

Oh and it also relies on acceptance that the Q-tip swab actually came from the hood latch. Chain of custody and isolation of the crime scene was not good in this case.


Of course man, if they planted the blood and bones and car... then it's not a stretch to think they planted it all really.

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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #238 on: January 6, 2016, 05:40:45 pm »
Thats how I feel & they probably could have got a 'clean' conviction if they actually did their job from the start.

Would love to know what his lawyers honestly think.

Stang has made it clear that he doesn't know but that the case was poorly handled and that the conviction was unconvincing and unjust.

He's said that in some ways, selfishly he would prefer it if Avery was guilty because he wouldn't have been involved in an innocent man going to jail.

The clear inference is that because he's still clearly supporting Avery, he believes he's not guilty.
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09/03/2011 08:04
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Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline johnsmithlfc

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Re: Making A Murderer - A Netflix Documentary Series - MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
« Reply #239 on: January 6, 2016, 06:46:22 pm »
Stang has made it clear that he doesn't know but that the case was poorly handled and that the conviction was unconvincing and unjust.

He's said that in some ways, selfishly he would prefer it if Avery was guilty because he wouldn't have been involved in an innocent man going to jail.

The clear inference is that because he's still clearly supporting Avery, he believes he's not guilty.


Yeah that interview was interesting, the one in which he answered questions.
I think he has some theories but he said it wouldn't be right for him to say,, but I'd love to hear his honest, unfiltered thoughts and theories.
« Last Edit: January 6, 2016, 06:48:14 pm by johnsmithlfc »
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively - Bob Marley