Topic: Autocup

[ABJ]

Anyone know if you can change the card details you entered today for the ACS?

Yes mate you definitely can once the ACS has finished, that's exactly what we do every season.

[AA3JM21]

Yes mate you definitely can once the ACS has finished, that's exactly what we do every season.

Thanks for this - do you have to ring them and tell them or can it be done online?

[red_Mark1980]

If you're having prerequisites, or applying rules to purchase eligibility, then apply them consistently. Do it fairly. That's all anyone here is asking for I think.

Thanks for this - do you have to ring them and tell them or can it be done online?

It can be done online. Think threre is a part that's "card details" or something

[kalle-anka]

Now all we need is Lokomotiv Moscow, Shakhtar Donetsk & another eastern European team in the group 

[Billy Elliot]

I think the issue here really is that the club apply prerequisites, but they aren't doing so consistently.

The argument for this seems to stem from the fact that 'season ticket holders have always had access to the ACS'. Whilst that's of course true, the club also made the conscious decision to allow members access to the ACS as well (which, honestly, they needed to do to make the membership worth a carrot) and in doing so the same process and rules should be applied consistently to everyone who has access. This situation whereby STH's can bypass prerequisites applied to members, effectively allowing them to jump the queue, is a massive kick in the teeth for those members who have been to all of the games, possibly for several years or more, with the associated financial and time cost, and are quite probably on the ST waiting list themselves, in favour of someone fortunate enough to have a season ticket, who for whatever reason didn't attend the year before.

If you're having prerequisites, or applying rules to purchase eligibility, then apply them consistently. Do it fairly. That's all anyone here is asking for I think.

That would mean a change to the T&C's of seasies.  Can't see that happening after the amount of shit caused last time over changes to allocations in the T&C's.  The only way I can see members being given anyway near the same priority is if they make the ground bigger.

[Billy Elliot]

Now all we need is Lokomotiv Moscow, Shakhtar Donetsk & another eastern European team in the group 

and then finished 3rd.  That'll separate the wheat from the chaff.

[Grobbelrevell]

and then finished 3rd.  That'll separate the wheat from the chaff.

I think he means so that those with minimal/no Euro away credits might have a shot at getting on that particular ladder. Or at least that's how I read it.

[Billy Elliot]

I think he means so that those with minimal/no Euro away credits might have a shot at getting on that particular ladder. Or at least that's how I read it.

I took it to mean to see how much people 'really' want to be in the auto cup.  Either way, it'd be interesting.

[stonecold_jpm]

Now all we need is Lokomotiv Moscow, Shakhtar Donetsk & another eastern European team in the group 

Shhhhhhh 

[Grobbelrevell]

That would mean a change to the T&C's of seasies.  Can't see that happening after the amount of shit caused last time over changes to allocations in the T&C's.  The only way I can see members being given anyway near the same priority is if they make the ground bigger.

I mean, yes, all of this circles back around to the fact that Anfield isn't big enough to cope with the demand (which is why the continued dragging of feet over TAR redevelopment puzzles me) and whilst that remains the case then these frustrations will continue, and to be fair to the club, the spinning of several plates will continue to leave them in a position where they're pissing people off almost regardless of what they do. It's Rafa's ever adaptable blanket analogy again.

Redevelopment aside, the club made a decision on ACS access, which was to extend access to that pot of tickets to members. That was a change to the previous status quo. It seems perfectly logical to me to then either apply the pre-existing processes (i.e. no prerequisites) to those now afforded access to the ACS (i.e. members), or alternatively, if you plan to adapt processes and bring in additional eligibility criteria (because you have to thanks to there being no cap on member numbers and therefore the pool now afforded access to the ACS pot), then to apply those across the board to everyone with access. That, to me, seems perfectly reasonable and fair and a natural progression following decisions already made, and if that means an update to the T&C's of ST's then so be it. What grounds would STH's have for arguing against it? For arguing in favour of not being eligible according to the clubs own stated policy, but deserving priority access regardless over those who are? Anything beyond 'that's how it's always been'? Well, members didn't have access to the ACS previously, so that's already changed, and with that the process applied to all involved should be consistent and honestly, this shouldn't be a debate for me. If I hadn't been to any of the cup games last season, I absolutely wouldn't expect priority access over someone who had. Why would I? Why should I? No-one is suggesting that STH's shouldn't have access to the ACS. Of course they should. But they shouldn't have any more (or less) access than members.

[Billy Elliot]

I think a lot of it goes back to Athens.  The Club back then didn't make it clear at all that they'd changed the terms and conditions so you had season ticket holders who'd been to all home matches thinking they'd qualified for the final, which led to the first step in the creation of SOS.  The Club could change the T&C's again but they'd have to be very, very careful and a lot more clear than the last time they'd changed them.

I think the Club would see it as another hassle.  If  you get fed up with it all, there's another five or six people ready to pounce on your seat.  It doesn't make sense to reward loyalty when demand out weighs supply by so much and the overarching objective is profit. 

[dudleyred]

Yep, less than 100 left as it stands - and a fair few of those are those awful Anfield Road restricted views!

I’d expect a very brief AC sale for those on five, then first game to also start on five. Surely they won’t start it from six given that all of us on six have had access to ACS this morning?

i dont think it should be 5 to be honest. there must be a lot on 6 who haven't bothered with ACS for various reasons. They should get first crack at the remaining tickets before it drops to 5. Everyone with 5 will get sorted for the first game due to less UEFA take up being a group match. not sure on the second match though. will previous attendance be binned then and just go off game one? glad i dont have to worry now given ACS. its a bit of a shit show though.

time will come when they will have to cross pollinate loyalty at home matches and give points perhaps based on attendance. so people who attend 19 league matches bought in members sale should be at the front of the queue over someone who did 6 league games, 2 FA cup games and the 6 European games (mine from last year). Obviously i hope not but you are either rewarding club loyalty or you are rewarding luck on internet sales. to do this though they need to sort out the issues of touts and cards etc.

We're miles behind in terms of ticketing set up and rewarding loyalty. Hate to say it but the system UTD have seems light years ahead having spoken to a few who support them and use it.

Its a case of dont hate the player, hate the game at the moment but it doesn't seem right seeing people with 20 odd plus home games a season missing out on decent specs, even when i am one who has benefited

[Billy Elliot]

I must be missing something with the amount of moaning about Europa matches not being included.  Did you not need those Europa matches to stand any decent chance of having all six last season anyway?  How many people would have all six without having any Europa matches?  Can't imagine it was many.

[kalle-anka]

I took it to mean to see how much people 'really' want to be in the auto cup.  Either way, it'd be interesting.

Well if we get a few "lesser" teams I'm sure there will be plenty of people working or have other commitments. But say Barca, Dortmund & Celtic Im sure all of them will somehow be able to make the games 

I think he means so that those with minimal/no Euro away credits might have a shot at getting on that particular ladder. Or at least that's how I read it.

Will most definitely be loads of UEFA returns for the "lesser" teams, if that's the case for the first match that isn't good for people with 4-5 matches from last season. As they will be in the same sale come the 2nd match as someone that may never attended a match until the first CL match this season..

[Billy Elliot]

So happy that loyalty hasn't got me by the bollocks anymore.  In the group stage you only have about 50% of the ground who actually want to be there.  The other 50% have bought a ticket to qualify for a future match that mightn't end up happening, because there's another five or six people for each seat with the same mindset waiting to take their place.

Fuck it all off and start again, pay on gate.  We probably wouldn't even fill the ground for half the matches so it'll be OK.

[red_Mark1980]

I must be missing something with the amount of moaning about Europa matches not being included.  Did you not need those Europa matches to stand any decent chance of having all six last season anyway?  How many people would have all six without having any Europa matches?  Can't imagine it was many.

My mate moved back to Liverpool last year and got four or five.

He was in London for the Europa games so categorically didn't have them

[Billy Elliot]

My mate moved back to Liverpool last year and got four or five.

He was in London for the Europa games so categorically didn't have them

So he couldn't be arsed travelling from London for the Europa Cup, but then moves to Liverpool when they get in the Champions League?   

[SingFongFC]

i dont think it should be 5 to be honest. there must be a lot on 6 who haven't bothered with ACS for various reasons. They should get first crack at the remaining tickets before it drops to 5. Everyone with 5 will get sorted for the first game due to less UEFA take up being a group match. not sure on the second match though. will previous attendance be binned then and just go off game one? glad i dont have to worry now given ACS. its a bit of a shit show though.

time will come when they will have to cross pollinate loyalty at home matches and give points perhaps based on attendance. so people who attend 19 league matches bought in members sale should be at the front of the queue over someone who did 6 league games, 2 FA cup games and the 6 European games (mine from last year). Obviously i hope not but you are either rewarding club loyalty or you are rewarding luck on internet sales. to do this though they need to sort out the issues of touts and cards etc.

We're miles behind in terms of ticketing set up and rewarding loyalty. Hate to say it but the system UTD have seems light years ahead having spoken to a few who support them and use it.

Its a case of dont hate the player, hate the game at the moment but it doesn't seem right seeing people with 20 odd plus home games a season missing out on decent specs, even when i am one who has benefited

Good post mate! There’s even less left now anyway, so not sure a ‘5’ sale will even happen now anyway!

I was wondering about how other clubs operate ticket sales and loyalty when I was sat in the queue this morning.

You’ll never please everyone of course, but I’m willing to bet that the other top clubs don’t consistently have as many people ‘in dispute’, if that’s the right phrase, with their clubs about loyalty/allocations etc as we do!

I was looking at how City sell their tickets when I was pondering about whether to try getting a ticket in their end for the CL game (or if it was even possible - it wasn’t without prior purchase, as you’d expect).

But anyway, their system is a points based one, and seems a lot more rewarding of loyalty than ours. I’m guessing United’s is similar? They have a small away ballot as well too, don’t they?

Like you say, until the club demonstrates a real desire to sort out the touting issues, both for home and away, nothing changes.

[scoreinaminute]

This first come first served bullshit really angers me. I've renewed with my mate for the last 15 years every season but have only just had the chance to login in to try and sort out renewals for next season and there's fuck all left. Why can't they just offer all those who took up the opportunity to buy on the auto cup scheme the same seats as last season. That's what happens with Wales home qualifiers and you have until a certain date to buy them, if not then they become available to anybody to buy! Fuming!

[dudleyred]

Good post mate! There’s even less left now anyway, so not sure a ‘5’ sale will even happen now anyway!

I was wondering about how other clubs operate ticket sales and loyalty when I was sat in the queue this morning.

You’ll never please everyone of course, but I’m willing to bet that the other top clubs don’t consistently have as many people ‘in dispute’, if that’s the right phrase, with their clubs about loyalty/allocations etc as we do!

I was looking at how City sell their tickets when I was pondering about whether to try getting a ticket in their end for the CL game (or if it was even possible - it wasn’t without prior purchase, as you’d expect).

But anyway, their system is a points based one, and seems a lot more rewarding of loyalty than ours. I’m guessing United’s is similar? They have a small away ballot as well too, don’t they?

Like you say, until the club demonstrates a real desire to sort out the touting issues, both for home and away, nothing changes.

yes its points based. i know more about their away system than home to be honest. they have points for applying as well as points for applying and buying.

If you apply you have to buy - failure to do so results in a penalty of not being able to apply for x number of games and therefore your loyalty points drop

think they have heavy collection too so if you dont collect you lose the points and forfeit future applications

if you get caught passing the ticket on then you get penalised

result - people who go themselves get rewarded, people only apply when they can actually go and touts start getting eased out.

its not perfect but its a start.

after a couple more years in champions league it will be a closed shop and i don't like that either -  perhaps a proportion of tickets should be ballotted to people without loyalty

I dont know but there must be a sweet spot between getting loyalty right and not being a closed shop 

[Billy Elliot]

But anyway, their system is a points based one, and seems a lot more rewarding of loyalty than ours. I’m guessing United’s is similar?

United have a ballot for away matches and it's only open to people who have had a season ticket for three years, and have all Cup matches from the previous season.

They can do that because they haven't got a waiting list closed on 20,000.

[MKB]

There is no problem with looking after those with greatest loyalty first, just like all other clubs do.  (And, sad to day, United are light years ahead of us with how they do this.)  If you haven't got the loyalty, you don't get a ticket until those with loyalty have been sorted.

This does NOT create a closed shop.  Each season, there will be hundreds of last season's fans who can no longer go, due to moving away, change of financial situation, other interests, death, etc., thus freeing up tickets for the next generation.

What creates the closed shop is that the club continues to allow those with loyalty to pass on their tickets for others to use.  Stop that, and you end the closed shop, and a lot of the problems sort themselves out.

I was told by a senior manager that the obstacles to change come from powerful voices in SoS who rather like the current arrangements.

[timmit]

There is no problem with looking after those with greatest loyalty first, just like all other clubs do.  (And, sad to day, United are light years ahead of us with how they do this.)  If you haven't got the loyalty, you don't get a ticket until those with loyalty have been sorted.

This does NOT create a closed shop.  Each season, there will be hundreds of last season's fans who can no longer go, due to moving away, change of financial situation, other interests, death, etc., thus freeing up tickets for the next generation.

What creates the closed shop is that the club continues to allow those with loyalty to pass on their tickets for others to use.  Stop that, and you end the closed shop, and a lot of the problems sort themselves out.

I was told by a senior manager that the obstacles to change come from powerful voices in SoS who rather like the current arrangements.

So very true. And we are all guilty. We think that we have the right to distribute tickets to our friends and family if we can’t make it. And really speaking, that shouldn’t happen

[Billy Elliot]

So very true. And we are all guilty. We think that we have the right to distribute tickets to our friends and family if we can’t make it. And really speaking, that shouldn’t happen

You could make the argument that you've earned the loyalty, and therefore the right to decide who uses your ticket.  For some young Scouser's it their only real choice if they can only afford two or three games a season.

It's all bollocks really.  If we had a bigger ground there'd be no problem.  When we increased the capacity from 45,000 to 54,000, there was also the 'slight of hand' where the members allocation was reduced for the building works, then put up again to more or less what it was in the first place. 

There is no closed shop at all technically, because you don't need pre-reqs to buy a hospitality ticket.  Anybody can jump straight onto the bandwagon if they've got the cash.

[jamieredders]

161 seats left for CL.  Wow that was fucking close but all with 6 credits have scored I think.

[dudleyred]

161 seats left for CL.  Wow that was fucking close but all with 6 credits have scored I think.

All those with six who want ACS and no tracking of when money will debit

There’ll be plenty with six who haven’t signed up I’d have thought

[jamieredders]

All those with six who want ACS and no tracking of when money will debit

There’ll be plenty with six who haven’t signed up I’d have thought

Everyone knows cash comes out about a month before each fixture mate.  If you don't sign up you run the risk of being isolated from Euro games at Anfield for the foreseeable.  That would kill me.

[dudleyred]

Everyone knows cash comes out about a month before each fixture mate.  If you don't sign up you run the risk of being isolated from Euro games at Anfield for the foreseeable.  That would kill me.

oh i agree with you - there will be some though - has to be as the ground sold out on 6 last season. even with about 3k more tickets available for the first game due to less UEFA take up etc there must be plenty on 6 matches still.

the general sale will have more than that 3k extra available id think.

the difference might be in STH up take but cant imagine that will run to 1000's

find out soon i guess.

I just hope they start the sale on 6 credits to give those who have the loyalty the chance to buy before it drops to 5

[gray19lfc]

I must be missing something with the amount of moaning about Europa matches not being included.  Did you not need those Europa matches to stand any decent chance of having all six last season anyway?  How many people would have all six without having any Europa matches?  Can't imagine it was many.

Tickets for Sevilla went on sale to members with 3 Europa games.  After that it was just a case of having the previous CL game e.g. for Maribor, you needed Sevilla.  For Spartak, you needed Sevilla and Maribor etc.

[Always_A_Red]

I think the issue here really is that the club apply prerequisites, but they aren't doing so consistently.

The argument for this seems to stem from the fact that 'season ticket holders have always had access to the ACS'. Whilst that's of course true, the club also made the conscious decision to allow members access to the ACS as well (which, honestly, they needed to do to make the membership worth a carrot) and in doing so the same process and rules should be applied consistently to everyone who has access. This situation whereby STH's can bypass prerequisites applied to members, effectively allowing them to jump the queue, is a massive kick in the teeth for those members who have been to all of the games, possibly for several years or more, with the associated financial and time cost, and are quite probably on the ST waiting list themselves, in favour of someone fortunate enough to have a season ticket, who for whatever reason didn't attend the year before.

If you're having prerequisites, or applying rules to purchase eligibility, then apply them consistently. Do it fairly. That's all anyone here is asking for I think.

Thank you for answering that for me - absolutely spot on.

[kalle-anka]

I must be missing something with the amount of moaning about Europa matches not being included.  Did you not need those Europa matches to stand any decent chance of having all six last season anyway?  How many people would have all six without having any Europa matches?  Can't imagine it was many.

Tickets for Sevilla went on sale to members with 3 Europa games.  After that it was just a case of having the previous CL game e.g. for Maribor, you needed Sevilla.  For Spartak, you needed Sevilla and Maribor etc.

Yeah but it dropped to all members. In other words anyone could end up in the ballot for Kiev with only attending/buying 6 matches ever..

[TheTeflonJohn]

How the fuck have these c*nts got tickets to sell at a massive profit 

https://www.worldchoicesports.co.uk/product-page/liverpool-fc

[anfieldpurch]

Tickets for Sevilla went on sale to members with 3 Europa games.  After that it was just a case of having the previous CL game e.g. for Maribor, you needed Sevilla.  For Spartak, you needed Sevilla and Maribor etc.

All 3 group games sold out to all members with no loyalty but then all 3 group games needed for Porto

[SingFongFC]

How the fuck have these c*nts got tickets to sell at a massive profit 

https://www.worldchoicesports.co.uk/product-page/liverpool-fc

Absolutely disgusting if the club are still actively dealing with these after the Kiev fiasco 

[redgriffin73]

We're miles behind in terms of ticketing set up and rewarding loyalty. Hate to say it but the system UTD have seems light years ahead having spoken to a few who support them and use it.

Isn't United's away sale done by ballot and only to STs though?

Yeah but it dropped to all members. In other words anyone could end up in the ballot for Kiev with only attending/buying 6 matches ever..

Yep, I know of people who weren't even living in the UK during the EL run who got full CL credits last season and are now on the ACS from today.

[dudleyred]

Isn't United's away sale done by ballot and only to STs though?

Might be right yes but was meaning the principle in terms of points and how they handle the non attendance etc

Boils down to meaning those who go to the most games and actually attend get the benefit

I believe they do mix up the competitions in terms of loyalty though rather than competition specific

[Billy Elliot]

Tickets for Sevilla went on sale to members with 3 Europa games.  After that it was just a case of having the previous CL game e.g. for Maribor, you needed Sevilla.  For Spartak, you needed Sevilla and Maribor etc.

So most people who went to Spartak went to Seville and Maribor.  Most people who went to Maribor had been to Seville.  Most people who went to Seville had been to at least three UEFA's.  As I said, I can't see there being many who went to all six without having Europa's.  So I don't understand the fuss about having to have Europa's for this seasons ACS, on top of the six Champions League from last season as I imagine there wouldn't be very many who managed to get all six, unless they had Europ's.

[kalle-anka]

So most people who went to Spartak went to Seville and Maribor.  Most people who went to Maribor had been to Seville.  Most people who went to Seville had been to at least three UEFA's.  As I said, I can't see there being many who went to all six without having Europa's.  So I don't understand the fuss about having to have Europa's for this seasons ACS, on top of the six Champions League from last season as I imagine there wouldn't be very many who managed to get all six, unless they had Europ's.

It started at 3 matches, but dropped to all members!

[redgriffin73]

So most people who went to Spartak went to Seville and Maribor.  Most people who went to Maribor had been to Seville.  Most people who went to Seville had been to at least three UEFA's.  As I said, I can't see there being many who went to all six without having Europa's.  So I don't understand the fuss about having to have Europa's for this seasons ACS, on top of the six Champions League from last season as I imagine there wouldn't be very many who managed to get all six, unless they had Europ's.

Sevilla dropped to all members. Like I said above, I know of people who got all CL homes last season having never been to a European game at Anfield before.

I think all people wanted was a bit of extra priority to make today's sale less stressful for those with more longstanding credits. God help those who aren't able to even get online at 10am on a weekday.

[kopitenkw]

I signed up to all three cup schemes this morning, three members tickets on each. In hindsight i used the wrong card when I signed up to the auto cup schemes. Can I change the debit / credit card that I linked to all nine tickets?