Author Topic: FSG (*)  (Read 444289 times)

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7160 on: March 26, 2017, 12:49:36 PM »
Was that the same Kenny who

said he was happy with the squad in January 2012 but that he could sign players if he wanted?

Yes Al, it is. The very same who you also seem to be labelling a liar now.

Also the same one who has since been made an ambassador for the club under the very same terrible owners. Do you think King Kenny would accept that role knowing what toxic owners we have Al? Or are you suggesting Kenny Dalglish has accepted that role knowing that it would lead to positive press for FSG despite knowing what toxic owners they are, knowing full well it'd be to the detriment of the club he's always put first?
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Offline Al 555

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7161 on: March 26, 2017, 12:52:51 PM »
Who says like? Klopp evidently loves managing and building a team to compete in his way with his staff. If any owner didn't facilitate this and support him why would he stay?

So, in your alternative world, are you saying that Klopp is now only staying because FSG have given him a package that no other club on the planet will match? In your world is this a good thing or a bad thing?

Klopp is an employee mate do you honestly think there are elite level clubs queuing up to hand over control of their clubs to an employee. Managers accept that things aren't going to be perfect . If they were perfect then there probably wouldn't be a vacancy in the first place.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7162 on: March 26, 2017, 12:53:32 PM »
Sorry I keep saying ambassador for Kenny  :butt

I should say Director. Sorry.
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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7163 on: March 26, 2017, 01:02:13 PM »
Sorry I keep saying ambassador for Kenny  :butt

I should say Director. Sorry.

non exec director to be precise.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7164 on: March 26, 2017, 01:03:38 PM »
I don't think Kenny would've had any problem telling the press if there wasn't any money available. We've had three managers now who have all said the same thing. I doubt they are all yes men.

Him and Comolli wasted a lot of the owners money anyway so it's a bit irrelevant. If we qualify for the Champions League in the summer and we still don't spend well then this argument will become relevant.
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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7165 on: March 26, 2017, 01:08:12 PM »
non exec director to be precise.

Exactly, well done. A position he no doubt accepted safe in the knowledge the owners don't back the managers they employ and are only in this game for their own greedy purposes.
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Offline Al 555

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7166 on: March 26, 2017, 01:13:25 PM »
said he was happy with the squad in January 2012 but that he could sign players if he wanted?

Yes Al, it is. The very same who you also seem to be labelling a liar now.

Also the same one who has since been made an ambassador for the club under the very same terrible owners. Do you think King Kenny would accept that role knowing what toxic owners we have Al? Or are you suggesting Kenny Dalglish has accepted that role knowing that it would lead to positive press for FSG despite knowing what toxic owners they are, knowing full well it'd be to the detriment of the club he's always put first?

Kenny originally came back to work for the Club under Hicks and Gillet and with Purslow as Managing Director. So with the greatest respect you are talking absolute nonsense mate. The vast majority of owners are pretty unpleasant characters in the world of Football. Let's face it the chances of really nice people becoming wealthy enough to own a top club are pretty slim.

The bizarre thing is that the vast majority of fans realise that but strangely we have the opposite with posters like yourself desperate to defend their honour, to make up excuse after excuse for them and fans like you who are willing to Chuck pretty much anyone under the bus to protect them.

Something you freely admit to but then bizarrely blame it on fans being critical of your beloved FSG. I would love to know what your stance was on Hicks and Gillet mate because you seem incapable of understanding the concept of Shanks Holy Trinity. FSG aren't part of the Club, they don't deserve our support or affection they are just temporary owners looking to make money. A bunch of money men with no love for the Club or even the Sport. Let's face it the majority of them didn't even want to buy us our present chairman being a prime example.

As the New York emails showed they bought us because they were buying a world famous brand for a steal , they were prepared for us to face a points deduction, they were prepared to lower the capacity of the ground to create a corporate cash cow and above all in the emails they never once spoke about winning.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7167 on: March 26, 2017, 01:14:29 PM »
Exactly, well done. A position he no doubt accepted safe in the knowledge the owners don't back the managers they employ and are only in this game for their own greedy purposes.

For someone who is better than any of us, he sure forgave FSG thoroughly and has thrown his hat in with them in an even higher role.

To extrapolate the negative narrative, is to suggest Kenny is happy with mercenary greedy terrible owners.


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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7168 on: March 26, 2017, 01:19:43 PM »
 :butt

You've done it again Al.

Why don't you answer the questions people are asking you, that's literally all you need to do to have a sensible debate.

We don't have a Shanks or Paisley anymore, but we have a King. In my opinion the most important figure in this clubs history. A man who managed the club under FSG and hasn't had a bad word to say during or since that reign. A man who has accepted a role as non executive director under those same owners. Now answer the question, why would that great man accept these roles with such terrible, toxic owners? You're either completely calling into question the integrity of that man, or you're mistaken with your continued tirades against the owners. Which is it?
Hodgson was a decent manager, without doubt in the top 1% of Football managers

Offline Al 555

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7169 on: March 26, 2017, 01:20:20 PM »
I don't think Kenny would've had any problem telling the press if there wasn't any money available. We've had three managers now who have all said the same thing. I doubt they are all yes men.

Him and Comolli wasted a lot of the owners money anyway so it's a bit irrelevant. If we qualify for the Champions League in the summer and we still don't spend well then this argument will become relevant.

I honestly can't think of anyone in football who had a greater dislike of the press than Kenny. So to suggest he would air the Clubs dirty linen in public is preposterous.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7170 on: March 26, 2017, 01:23:08 PM »
Was that the same Kenny who tried to rearrange the Wolves game that fell on deadline day. Is that the same Kenny who used to treat the press with disdain, refused to air our dirty linen in public and who protected the Club at all times. The background to that piece you quoted was the press trying to create a rift between Kenny and the owners regarding our lack of transfer activity.

Spot on Al...Kenny (quite rightly) wouldn't give journalists the steam off his shite and more often than not it was what was between the lines rather than the lines themselves that mattered...so its quite ridiculous to quote his press junkets as evidence of anything whatsoever...particularly to second guess his relationship with the owners...who knows what that is?...I work with people who I cant stand, but grin and bear it and get on with the job....and I bet a pound to a pinch of shit that every single person on here does likewise. For all I know Kenny might trust the Boston owners implicitly and that's why he's still involved at LFC or he may have his suspicions about them and think 'these c*nts are nae going to force me out of the club I love'...either way, you're quite right, his default position was always to protect Liverpool football club at all times and any quotes from him must be seen in that context..
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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7171 on: March 26, 2017, 01:29:00 PM »
:butt

You've done it again Al.

Why don't you answer the questions people are asking you, that's literally all you need to do to have a sensible debate.

We don't have a Shanks or Paisley anymore, but we have a King. In my opinion the most important figure in this clubs history. A man who managed the club under FSG and hasn't had a bad word to say during or since that reign. A man who has accepted a role as non executive director under those same owners. Now answer the question, why would that great man accept these roles with such terrible, toxic owners? You're either completely calling into question the integrity of that man, or you're mistaken with your continued tirades against the owners. Which is it?

Do you have difficulty reading mate Kenny came back to the Club under Hicks and Gillet and with Purslow as Managing Director. You can't get any more toxic than that.

Was that a sign that he was backing the regime or was he trying to protect the Club. Kenny has made it crystal clear that Liverpool Football Club and it's supporters have taken him and his family to their hearts and he would always repay that by helping  the Club in any way he could . So please do not try and use that as some bizarre approval of the owners of the Club whether that was Hicks and Gillet or FSG.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7172 on: March 26, 2017, 01:30:02 PM »
Spot on Al...Kenny (quite rightly) wouldn't give journalists the steam off his shite and more often than not it was what was between the lines rather than the lines themselves that mattered...so its quite ridiculous to quote his press junkets as evidence of anything whatsoever...particularly to second guess his relationship with the owners...who knows what that is?...I work with people who I cant stand, but grin and bear it and get on with the job....and I bet a pound to a pinch of shit that every single person on here does likewise. For all I know Kenny might trust the Boston owners implicitly and that's why he's still involved at LFC or he may have his suspicions about them and think 'these c*nts are nae going to force me out of the club I love'...either way, you're quite right, his default position was always to protect Liverpool football club at all times and any quotes from him must be seen in that context..

Quotes, facts, stats, contracts etc

All useless in the face of overwhelming opinion eh Pistolero?

As for 'these c***s are nae going to force me out of the club I love'? With respect, they already had and then he came back to work alongside them. I mean yeah we could take that as him being happy with them as owners of the club, or we could take it as a scheme to take them down from the inside along with all the other legends they've hired as coaches or ambassadors.
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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7173 on: March 26, 2017, 01:35:32 PM »
Do you have difficulty reading mate Kenny came back to the Club under Hicks and Gillet and with Purslow as Managing Director. You can't get any more toxic than that.

Was that a sign that he was backing the regime or was he trying to protect the Club. Kenny has made it crystal clear that Liverpool Football Club and it's supporters have taken him and his family to their hearts and he would always repay that by helping  the Club in any way he could . So please do not try and use that as some bizarre approval of the owners of the Club whether that was Hicks and Gillet or FSG.

Did he? In what capacity, and when? Genuinely don't remember. I can find plenty of quotes around him slating H&G including in his own column, nothing about him being employed by the club at the time and any job roles etc.

Edit:

He was invited by Rafa to help out with the Academy....
« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 01:40:36 PM by Eel Lobo »
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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7174 on: March 26, 2017, 01:40:34 PM »
Did he? In what capacity, and when? Genuinely don't remember. I can find plenty of quotes around him slating FSG including in his own column, nothing about him being employed by the club at the time and any job roles etc.

July 2009 with a senior role at the Academy and as a Club ambassador.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7175 on: March 26, 2017, 01:51:00 PM »
Quotes, facts, stats, contracts etc

All useless in the face of overwhelming opinion eh Pistolero?

As for 'these c***s are nae going to force me out of the club I love'? With respect, they already had and then he came back to work alongside them. I mean yeah we could take that as him being happy with them as owners of the club, or we could take it as a scheme to take them down from the inside along with all the other legends they've hired as coaches or ambassadors.

Kenny in his own words.

"I've always said that if I can help the football club in any way, shape or form I would always be there to help. That's all I've done," Dalglish said. "I was lucky to get back in. It was unfortunate for Roy but someone's misfortune is someone else's good fortune.

"I owe the football club a lot more than they owe me. I will always feel that. Because it's Liverpool Football Club and because of the opportunities they have given me. The football club is always more important than any one individual and I'm no different."


The Football Club not the owners.

We need to separate the two the way players and managers do. Players and managers dream of playing for or managing one of the World's great clubs they don't grow up dreaming of working for FSG or the Glazers or a Laporte or Perez. So why do feel the need to show such loyalty to FSG.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7176 on: March 26, 2017, 02:06:09 PM »
Kenny in his own words.

"I've always said that if I can help the football club in any way, shape or form I would always be there to help. That's all I've done," Dalglish said. "I was lucky to get back in. It was unfortunate for Roy but someone's misfortune is someone else's good fortune.

"I owe the football club a lot more than they owe me. I will always feel that. Because it's Liverpool Football Club and because of the opportunities they have given me. The football club is always more important than any one individual and I'm no different."


The Football Club not the owners.

We need to separate the two the way players and managers do. Players and managers dream of playing for or managing one of the World's great clubs they don't grow up dreaming of working for FSG or the Glazers or a Laporte or Perez. So why do feel the need to show such loyalty to FSG.

And again Al there's a world of difference between actively supporting the owners, or being satisfied with the direction the club is heading but at the same time knowing it must be maintained.

It's been said before but your sole joy from being a Liverpool supporter seems to be in criticising everything the current owners do. That's it. That's what confuses people. You don't pop on the boards, discuss Jordan Henderson, talk about The Wire, debate whether Taylor meant to injure Coleman, talk about politics. You come on and go straight to this thread, and remain. You jump on any possible reason or excuse to criticise them, and then try to spin it back to Bill Shankly or one of our other legends with some old quote.

You talk about Kenny being an icon, which he is, but then completely ignore how ridiculous it is to suggest he would come back to be a director after being sacked by FSG if he thought they were anything but decent owners. It would make literally no sense. Yes he was employed under H&G, that's not even slightly relevant to the whole point though. He was asked to return by Rafa and helped with the kids. During their tenure, both before and during the time he was employed by them, he wasn't afraid to speak out against them. That's the difference.
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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7177 on: March 26, 2017, 03:14:02 PM »

Good post!

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7178 on: March 26, 2017, 04:10:28 PM »
The thing I don't understand, is that if FSG are such bad owners who do not support the manager in the transfer market and do not have any ambition, then why is Klopp still here?

Klopp is a talented manager, who could finish his sabbatical and/or walk into a top job whenever he wants.

Yet he is still here, working up close with FSG and apparently happy enough to have extended his contract.

What does this say about Klopp and/or his opinion about FSG?
This question has been asked about 10 times already. No one "anti-FSG" in this thread could answer it with any logic, it was mainly ignored by the regular posters and a few part timers all they could come up with was basically along the lines "Klopp loves the money and he is only doing it for the pay-rise". Absolutely nonsense!

That there's not a single player in world football we could have signed in the summer or in the winter who would have given us a better chance of securing better results during that period.

Or indeed to have given us a stronger bench now, rather than having it filled with mediocre fringe players and kids as is the case every season when we pick up two or three injuries, or be starting instead of Coutinho.

It's nonsense. You know it, I know it, he knows it, as we've heard it every year since 2013.
You fail to consider that signing someone doesn't necessarily mean they come in from minute 1 and hit the ground running after a mid-season switch in styles of play, let alone perform to the level of Mane which is what we needed - and even with Mane back we still struggled a lot against lower table teams due to the squad lacking confidence as a whole. You need to have the right circumstances which is rare in the January window especially looking for quality players. Clubs usually only sell cast-off players they don't need otherwise you end up paying 35m for Andy Carroll. Furthermore if you actually look at the January business we have done in the past it looks better than our rivals under FSG considering we got Suarez, Coutinho and Sturridge in such windows - what are the great January signings of our rivals? Then you have to consider was it logical to buy someone in January who would've only played a few games and now be sitting back on the bench behind Coutinho/Firmino/Mane. Footballers themselves seemed to have worked this out, why can't you? And it's often not about money:

Azmoun "I would have ended up playing a few games and then spent a great deal of time on the bench as Liverpool were only looking to fill a void for a particular part of their season."

This thread wasn't even alive until we had bad results in the middle of January so don't pretend like you predicted such a sharp drop off in form. Before January our squad options were doing absolutely fine, we reached semi-finals of EFL cup off their performances which were good enough. But then after some disruptions the squad's confidence dropped way below what was reasonable and poor results followed. And now that most of our full team is back that was out in different parts of January (attack and Matip), why are we still tending to struggle against these smaller teams? Just FSG's fault eh? Nothing to do with players underperforming or losing confidence or tactics? Just FSG not buying 1 or 2 extra players.

People love comparing to how our rivals spend so much. Did you happen to notice none of our rivals in a similar position to us with more competitions to play than us, buy anyone in January? Did you also notice some of these teams actually sold some squad players? Negative net spend in January by 60million during a title challenge Abramovich out! Man Utd giving up on their season as well negative 50million!

« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 04:19:21 PM by penga »

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7179 on: March 26, 2017, 05:00:29 PM »
Klopp is an employee mate do you honestly think there are elite level clubs queuing up to hand over control of their clubs to an employee. Managers accept that things aren't going to be perfect . If they were perfect then there probably wouldn't be a vacancy in the first place.

Klopp is an employee? Cool, so am I. If mine and Klopp's bank balances were the same, and my bosses as bad as you make out FSG are, I would walk away.

Remind me as to why Klopp isn't walking away again? Do I understand that you are saying no club will hire him in the next two years?

Why on earth are you bringing up perfect working conditions? I didn't.

And finally, do you think it's a good or bad thing that FSG have managed to retain his services? You avoided answering it and instead started going on about the perfect job conditions.
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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7180 on: March 26, 2017, 06:24:24 PM »
I honestly can't think of anyone in football who had a greater dislike of the press than Kenny. So to suggest he would air the Clubs dirty linen in public is preposterous.

That's assuming that Kenny did in fact have grievances and was withholding them in order to keep them from being aired in the press. Here's the thing though Al: you're making an assumption. You're assuming that this was in fact the case even though all of the evidence points to the contrary. You do it all the time mate. It's like a never ending cycle

You say something that's wildly conjectured. Then someone pulls you on it. They provide you with actual proof to the contrary. Then you trot out assumption after assumption in an effort to validate your stance - which shifts the goal posts so far from the original argument that it's virtually impossible to have any form of reasoned debate with you. It's like trying to get a grip on a loose firehose. There's no knowing what direction it's going to go spinning in next

I've said to you before that I admire your passion for the club. You clearly give more of a fuck about LFC than most others do and I genuinely respect that. I'm in no way trying to have a go at you. There's nothing wrong with having opinions or theorizing about what goes on behind the scenes. All cool beans. But mate, with all due respect, you can't build an argument around assumptions. You just can't. Nor can you keep using them to validate the things you say. To continuously keep doing so is hugely presumptuous

For example, I personally believe that Jurgen Klopp is one of the best managers in club football. I also believe that our owners deserve a huge amount of credit for luring him here. And the reason I believe this is because I'm willing to bet that if you surveyed all of the fans of every club in Europe and asked them to cherry pick a manager to take over their respective teams then a significant portion of them would say Jugen Klopp. Heck, I bet there's thousands of them in Manchester. They would probably never admit it publically, but I reckon deep down, they glance at our manager with a tinge of envy

But I've no way of knowing that for sure. It's an assumption. As much as I believe it, it's still not something I can categorically prove. I'm not going to trot it out because I realize that it's not concrete enough for me to build an argument around. Do you see where I'm coming from mate? Just like you can't prove Kenny was concealing certain supposed grievances, I also cannot prove my theory that our manager is as highly coveted as I think he is. Do you catch my drift? We can all make assumptions Al. It doesn't mean that they're necessarily true
« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 07:04:26 PM by Billy The Kid »
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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7181 on: March 26, 2017, 06:27:08 PM »
I honestly can't think of anyone in football who had a greater dislike of the press than Kenny. So to suggest he would air the Clubs dirty linen in public is preposterous.
I think it's preposterous that he'd knowingly let the owners hoodwink the fans just because he doesn't like talking to reporters.
Then in the midddle out pops a smiling glen johnson pulling up his jersey to reveal a t-shirt of suarez with a text saying. "OUR SUAREZ IS A FRIEND TO ALL COLOURS!"

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7182 on: March 26, 2017, 07:16:51 PM »
I honestly can't think of anyone in football who had a greater dislike of the press than Kenny. So to suggest he would air the Clubs dirty linen in public is preposterous.
I am a huge KK fan, and a fan of your healthy FSG scepticism, but this claim is not true.

KK did not enjoy pre -match, and post -match interviews. He was however, like Fagan, Paisley and Shanks, an arch manipulator of the Press, amongst whom he had several favourites, most notably Henry Winter.

His golf days were a Press favourite, with anecdotes, tit-bits, and tittle tattle galore. He was an expert in getting stories “spiked” in return for an exclusive.

Anyone with  an interest in Rafa’s final year will always be intrigued by the Winter, Gerrard, Purslow, KK dynamic.

On topic, to be fair to FSG, their recent record with the press has been pretty straight.

Offline PaulD

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7183 on: March 26, 2017, 07:22:02 PM »

Are you saying Kenny was aligned with the other three?

Offline Al 555

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7184 on: March 26, 2017, 07:30:18 PM »
And again Al there's a world of difference between actively supporting the owners, or being satisfied with the direction the club is heading but at the same time knowing it must be maintained.

It's been said before but your sole joy from being a Liverpool supporter seems to be in criticising everything the current owners do. That's it. That's what confuses people. You don't pop on the boards, discuss Jordan Henderson, talk about The Wire, debate whether Taylor meant to injure Coleman, talk about politics. You come on and go straight to this thread, and remain. You jump on any possible reason or excuse to criticise them, and then try to spin it back to Bill Shankly or one of our other legends with some old quote.

Firstly I have made plenty of posts in the Henderson thread thank you very much.

You talk about Kenny being an icon, which he is, but then completely ignore how ridiculous it is to suggest he would come back to be a director after being sacked by FSG if he thought they were anything but decent owners. It would make literally no sense. Yes he was employed under H&G, that's not even slightly relevant to the whole point though. He was asked to return by Rafa and helped with the kids. During their tenure, both before and during the time he was employed by them, he wasn't afraid to speak out against them. That's the difference.

Secondly when have I ever suggested that FSG aren't decent owners. I have constantly stated that on the business side they have done well and have been a solid 7 or 8 out of 10. Pretty poor on the Football side and have made some bad errors and failed to learn from them for me.

Tone La has asked me over and over again who I would want to swap owners with and over and over again I have said the same thing I don't have a problem with FSG I just want them to be better owners.

The thing is being decent owners simply isn't good enough. It is elite level sport everyone needs to be the best they possibly can if you are to fulfill your potential. Hodgson was a decent manager, without doubt in the top 1% of Football managers should we of said he is decent and made do. The same with Konchesky again if you look at people who play Football then he was definitely within the top 1% of people who play Football.

So why accept FSG being decent owners surely we as fans have a duty to push them to be the best owners they possibly can be.

Lastly mate don't try lecturing me about Kenny's role when Hicks and Gillet owned the Club because earlier on you didn't even know about it. Strangely enough you left out the bit about him being an ambassador for the Club. I imagine that you did that because it doesn't fit with your preposterous notion that working for the Club somehow means you back the owners.

Next you will be telling us that working in Football somehow means you are okay with what the likes of UEFA and FIFA have done.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7185 on: March 26, 2017, 07:38:41 PM »
Hodgson was a decent manager, without doubt in the top 1% of Football managers should we of said he is decent and made do. The same with Konchesky again if you look at people who play Football then he was definitely within the top 1% of people who play Football.

Um....yeah exactly

Hodgson was a decent manager, without doubt in the top 1% of Football managers

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7186 on: March 26, 2017, 07:44:40 PM »
That's assuming that Kenny did in fact have grievances and was withholding them in order to keep them from being aired in the press. Here's the thing though Al: you're making an assumption. You're assuming that this was in fact the case even though all of the evidence points to the contrary. You do it all the time mate. It's like a never ending cycle

You say something that's wildly conjectured. Then someone pulls you on it. They provide you with actual proof to the contrary. Then you trot out assumption after assumption in an effort to validate your stance - which shifts the goal posts so far from the original argument that it's virtually impossible to have any form of reasoned debate with you. It's like trying to get a grip on a loose firehose. There's no knowing what direction it's going to go spinning in next

I've said to you before that I admire your passion for the club. You clearly give more of a fuck about LFC than most others do and I genuinely respect that. I'm in no way trying to have a go at you. There's nothing wrong with having opinions or theorizing about what goes on behind the scenes. All cool beans. But mate, with all due respect, you can't build an argument around assumptions. You just can't. Nor can you keep using them to validate the things you say. To continuously keep doing so is hugely presumptuous

For example, I personally believe that Jurgen Klopp is one of the best managers in club football. I also believe that our owners deserve a huge amount of credit for luring him here. And the reason I believe this is because I'm willing to bet that if you surveyed all of the fans of every club in Europe and asked them to cherry pick a manager to take over their respective teams then a significant portion of them would say Jugen Klopp. Heck, I bet there's thousands of them in Manchester. They would probably never admit it publically, but I reckon deep down, they glance at our manager with a tinge of envy

But I've no way of knowing that for sure. It's an assumption. As much as I believe it, it's still not something I can categorically prove. I'm not going to trot it out because I realize that it's not concrete enough for me to build an argument around. Do you see where I'm coming from mate? Just like you can't prove Kenny was concealing certain supposed grievances, I also cannot prove my theory that our manager is as highly coveted as I think he is. Do you catch my drift? We can all make assumptions Al. It doesn't mean that they're necessarily true


Isn't the massive assumption though that Kenny or any manager showing a united front to the press somehow means they are overjoyed with the owners. Managers might hate the sight of a player and can't wait to get rid of them but if the press try and create a rift between them and the player then they go out of their way to praise the player.

Klopp is a great look at what happened when the press criticised Benteke and suggested he was a poor fit for Klopp. The manage went out of his way to praise Benteke and spoke about how he tried to sign him for Dortmund. Or how about when Migs was under the cosh Klopp stated Migs was the perfect keeper for us whilst lining up Karius to replace him as number one.

In short I am not building an argument based on assumptions but doing the exact opposite and asking people not to infer too much from how managers answer loaded questions or to ridiculously attempt to make the huge leap from taking working for a club to that being an endorsement of the owners.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline DangerScouse

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7187 on: March 26, 2017, 07:47:57 PM »
I am a huge KK fan, and a fan of your healthy FSG scepticism, but this claim is not true.

KK did not enjoy pre -match, and post -match interviews.


Kenny had complete and utter disdain towards the press, to the point where watching his interviews became quite uncomfortable at times.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7188 on: March 26, 2017, 07:51:51 PM »
Um....yeah exactly



Have a look at his CV mate clearly Hodgson was a decent manager. Just not good enough for one of the games great teams. Strangely though you seem quite happy for FSG to be only decent owners.

You seem okay for them to treat the Club as a business and to finish 6th, 8th, 7th, 2nd, 6th and 8th. 
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7189 on: March 26, 2017, 07:57:14 PM »
Have a look at his CV mate clearly Hodgson was a decent manager. Just not good enough for one of the games great teams. Strangely though you seem quite happy for FSG to be only decent owners.

You seem okay for them to treat the Club as a business and to finish 6th, 8th, 7th, 2nd, 6th and 8th.

I literally have no idea what new point it is you're trying to make Al.....that FSG are in the top 1% of owners? Or something?
Hodgson was a decent manager, without doubt in the top 1% of Football managers

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7190 on: March 26, 2017, 08:08:21 PM »
I literally have no idea what new point it is you're trying to make Al.....that FSG are in the top 1% of owners? Or something?

The point is that decent doesn't cut it. There would be no one happier than me if FSG were great owners who were getting us punching above our weight, winning trophies and competing at the top table in Europe.

The point is that stating the bleeding obvious that we have massively underachieved under FSG is met with accusations of hatred and hoping for a sugar daddy.

If I was asked to assess FSG's tenure I would say decent owners who have done well on the business side but who need to recruit more football nous and above all need to show more ambition. Not just one extended stand but four not just an outstanding manager but everyone at the club to be outstanding in their field.

What would your assessment be Eel ?
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7191 on: March 26, 2017, 08:21:13 PM »
show more ambition.

As so many people has said already they showed plenty of ambition last season in getting us a world class manager and one of the best in the world but yet you managed to make out like they only hired Klopp so they wouldn't have to spend barely an money. They can't win with you.
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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7192 on: March 26, 2017, 08:21:44 PM »
not just an outstanding manager but everyone at the club to be outstanding in their field.

We've made a few good appointments recently in this area. Andreas Kornmayer and Mona Nemmer both came from Bayern and Gerrard is now working with the kids in the academy.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7193 on: March 26, 2017, 08:34:02 PM »
As so many people has said already they showed plenty of ambition last season in getting us a world class manager and one of the best in the world but yet you managed to make out like they only hired Klopp so they wouldn't have to spend barely an money. They can't win with you.

His track record of delivering on a limited budget in comparison to Bayern wouldn't have massively appealed to the owners?

If our results over the last 6 seasons won't wake you up, I suppose nothing will at this stage.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7194 on: March 26, 2017, 08:50:05 PM »
Kenny had complete and utter disdain towards the press, to the point where watching his interviews became quite uncomfortable at times.

This is not true, and one of the great misconceptions, apart from that he found interviews very difficult.

He was an arch proponent  of media manipulation.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7195 on: March 26, 2017, 08:57:08 PM »
As so many people has said already they showed plenty of ambition last season in getting us a world class manager and one of the best in the world but yet you managed to make out like they only hired Klopp so they wouldn't have to spend barely an money. They can't win with you.

I was and still am delighted that Klopp is our manager. A great fit, a fantastic manager managing a fantastic Club.

Was it a great show of ambition though, obviously compared to going shopping at Wigan and Swansea for your last manager then yes it was ambitious. Are we really that brainwashed now that we think we are somehow lucky to have a top manager.

As for my observation that Klopp being successful on a shoestring budget early in his Dortmund career would be appealing to FSG how has that worked out. Was I proven wrong and did FSG furnish Klopp with a huge war chest that enabled us to compete with our peers or is Klopp around £20m in profit on transfers ?
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline Al 555

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7196 on: March 26, 2017, 08:58:41 PM »
We've made a few good appointments recently in this area. Andreas Kornmayer and Mona Nemmer both came from Bayern and Gerrard is now working with the kids in the academy.

I agree all good appointments and hopefully there will be many more.
 
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline BEAST

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7197 on: March 26, 2017, 10:36:28 PM »
I've asked it before but I'm serious - when is the protest?

Otherwise what is all this leading to?  Is this your version of therapy?

Thread should be renamed to "come here to flog a dead horse"

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7198 on: March 26, 2017, 10:46:30 PM »
What would your assessment be Eel ?

Hodgson was a decent manager, without doubt in the top 1% of Football managers

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7199 on: March 26, 2017, 11:11:16 PM »
Not sure if it has been mentioned but if these owners are shite and not backing Klopp or pissing him about why would he sign a new contract? Surely one of our closely linked journos would mention something in the press to put some sort of pressure on them but i've not come across anything. They are decent, improved us in some ways and can do better in others which im sure they will be working on to improve.
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