Topic: Mid Season Over-Optimistic Rallying Cry AKA Stop Bloody Whinging

[wige]

You've gotta laugh at the idiots that think not being negative and moaning means you have to say we're definitely going to achieve the maximum of everything. You know, rather than just having some optimism, trust and belief. While actually displaying and living that optimism, trust and belief.

[El Ninos Black Eye]

Can’t believe people are saying we’ve stood still since last season! Last season was about getting in the top by any means how. We did it on the last day without any midweek games in Europe to contend with.  This season was about getting into the knock out stages and consolidating our place in the top 4, not just scraping it. We achieved one of them aims and are on course to do the other.  We’ve got the same amount of points at this stage of the season as the year we finished 2nd under Rodgers! People are basically moaning coz City have ran away with it, so they think it makes us look bad. But in any other season we wouldn’t just be going for the top 4, we’d be in with a shout of the League! 

[dudleyred]

Can’t believe people are saying we’ve stood still since last season! Last season was about getting in the top by any means how. We did it on the last day without any midweek games in Europe to contend with.  This season was about getting into the knock out stages and consolidating our place in the top 4, not just scraping it. We achieved one of them aims and are on course to do the other.  We’ve got the same amount of points at this stage of the season as the year we finished 2nd under Rodgers! People are basically moaning coz City have ran away with it, so they think it makes us look bad. But in any other season we wouldn’t just be going for the top 4, we’d be in with a shout of the League! 

sshhhh with your reasoned comments and your common sense approach!!!  haha

you're absolutely spot on   

[wige]

Can’t believe people are saying we’ve stood still since last season! Last season was about getting in the top by any means how. We did it on the last day without any midweek games in Europe to contend with.  This season was about getting into the knock out stages and consolidating our place in the top 4, not just scraping it. We achieved one of them aims and are on course to do the other.  We’ve got the same amount of points at this stage of the season as the year we finished 2nd under Rodgers! People are basically moaning coz City have ran away with it, so they think it makes us look bad. But in any other season we wouldn’t just be going for the top 4, we’d be in with a shout of the League! 

[Suareznumber7]

Nah, you can be good at bringing a ball under control, running fast (with and without the ball), passing even, but doesn't mean you've got the brain to decide when to pass or dribble, or where to pass to or what space to dribble into, etc.

On the other hand, if you have the brain but not the technical ability to perform the skill then you are as useless to a team as someone without a brain.  There obviously needs to be a combination of the two. 

[nico 8]

but to finish in the top 4 again and still being in europe at this stage of the season is surely something?

It's disappointing to be out of 2 cups button reason why we can't go for 2nd and as far as we can in champions league

just no need for so much negativity from some fans these days, the way some act is as if we are 6th and nowhere near top 4

Whilst the club exists to win trophies, the stark reality is that the playing field has changed to such an extent that maintaining top 4 status with a decent CL run trumps the smaller trophies. If we do not achieve this, we will slide into mediocrity both on and off the pitch. We have to look at the longer term picture hence the OP is 100% correct. We need to stay positive despite what is going on around  us. Stick to our principles. CL is easier to win than the league. We have a team that can blow any team away on our day. By reaching the semi's in the CL consistently with an odd final or win pursuant to a kind draw will make us attractive more so than a domestic trophy. We were there with Rafa before we tore ourselves apart. DO NOT let it happen this time round. So yes- lots to be positive about and think longer term by seeing the bigger picture.
To digress, the only other way to combat the oil rich clubs is to get a shit hot academy with a group of scousers who come through together. In that way, you do not run the risk of the Spanish clubs pinching our best latin american players.

[Gnurglan]

We still have a chance to win the Champions League.

 

Yes. We should know. Back in 2005 we were hardly the team everybody talked about. As I recall it, even Gerrard had doubts we could do it. In the end, he lifted the trophy. As long as we're in the tournament, we have a chance and we should make the most of it. No need to throw in the towel just yet.

[nico 8]

I know this is me being fastidious; but wouldn't technical ability require a good brain?

No - technical ability is practice. (see your freestylers who cannot make a living playing football 11v 11).
A brain requires speed of thought, correct decision making and an understanding and reading of the game.

[nico 8]

On the other hand, if you have the brain but not the technical ability to perform the skill then you are as useless to a team as someone without a brain.  There obviously needs to be a combination of the two. 

Then you become a coach.

[nico 8]

On the other hand, if you have the brain but not the technical ability to perform the skill then you are as useless to a team as someone without a brain.  There obviously needs to be a combination of the two. 

The thing is- the longer you stay in the game the more you can improve on both aspects to a limited extent. It is what experience teaches you.

[So… Howard Philips]

The thing is- the longer you stay in the game the more you can improve on both aspects to a limited extent. It is what experience teaches you.

And that is why the clean sheet the other night was important. We need to gain the experience to do that on a regular basis.

[koppper]

I admire Klopp for the fact that he will not buy anyone as a short term panic buy - he has to be the right player with the right mentality at the right price. I am scared we miss out on top 4 as we could then lose players or miss out on our top picks, but we are doing things the right way. I think a lot of the other top teams have made panic buys which can cause as many problems long term as they solve short term.

[clinical]

I admire Klopp for the fact that he will not buy anyone as a short term panic buy - he has to be the right player with the right mentality at the right price. I am scared we miss out on top 4 as we could then lose players or miss out on our top picks, but we are doing things the right way. I think a lot of the other top teams have made panic buys which can cause as many problems long term as they solve short term.

This is the gamble which Melissa Reddy sums up very well in her recent article.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/klopps-transfer-waiting-game-after-coutinho-sale-is-a-risky-move-/je7pg1utfpqw1vs5uuuiut3bq

You wait for right players you give yourself the best chance to do well, knowing they have highest chance of fitting the team and what Klopp wants to do.

The otherside of coin is if we miss top 4 do these players want to still come, the agent quotes in her article suggest not. And additionally are Salah, Firmino, Mane as patient as Klopp? I fully doubt it so you are in a continuous cycle of replacing players who don't want to keep waiting year after year going nowhere.

Klopps approach is the best IF players are on board for the long term. Unfortunately loyalty has gone from the game. That's Klopp's biggest enemy and was at Dortmund too. Players love him but they won't stick around waiting too long.

[AndyMuller]

We will finish 2nd and win the CL.


[You may have an iPhone but you are still using the free version of Tapatalk and spamming us with that knowledge]

[na fir dearg]

This is the gamble which Melissa Reddy sums up very well in her recent article.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/klopps-transfer-waiting-game-after-coutinho-sale-is-a-risky-move-/je7pg1utfpqw1vs5uuuiut3bq

You wait for right players you give yourself the best chance to do well, knowing they have highest chance of fitting the team and what Klopp wants to do.

The otherside of coin is if we miss top 4 do these players want to still come, the agent quotes in her article suggest not. And additionally are Salah, Firmino, Mane as patient as Klopp? I fully doubt it so you are in a continuous cycle of replacing players who don't want to keep waiting year after year going nowhere.

Klopps approach is the best IF players are on board for the long term. Unfortunately loyalty has gone from the game. That's Klopp's biggest enemy and was at Dortmund too. Players love him but they won't stick around waiting too long.

good read that

[epsomred]

This is the gamble which Melissa Reddy sums up very well in her recent article.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/klopps-transfer-waiting-game-after-coutinho-sale-is-a-risky-move-/je7pg1utfpqw1vs5uuuiut3bq

You wait for right players you give yourself the best chance to do well, knowing they have highest chance of fitting the team and what Klopp wants to do.

The otherside of coin is if we miss top 4 do these players want to still come, the agent quotes in her article suggest not. And additionally are Salah, Firmino, Mane as patient as Klopp? I fully doubt it so you are in a continuous cycle of replacing players who don't want to keep waiting year after year going nowhere.

Klopps approach is the best IF players are on board for the long term. Unfortunately loyalty has gone from the game. That's Klopp's biggest enemy and was at Dortmund too. Players love him but they won't stick around waiting too long.

Not having a pop at you but I think it is a lazy cliche to say that all players want to play in the champions league and that is their sole motivator. If I was a player with a young family and given the choice of living and playing for buttons in a crime ridden radiation drenched shit hole somewhere in Eastern Europe but playing in the Cl or coming to the Uk and playing for a top team I know which one I would take.

[clinical]

Not having a pop at you but I think it is a lazy cliche to say that all players want to play in the champions league and that is their sole motivator. If I was a player with a young family and given the choice of living and playing for buttons in a crime ridden radiation drenched shit hole somewhere in Eastern Europe but playing in the Cl or coming to the Uk and playing for a top team I know which one I would take.

You are assuming that's their only choice. Not what I or Melissa was getting at, at all. Let's use Lemar as an example. If we finish 5th let's be honest it's not going to be just us or some shit team in eastern Europe who are in champions league mate.

[HumanRed]

Not having a pop at you but I think it is a lazy cliche to say that all players want to play in the champions league and that is their sole motivator. If I was a player with a young family and given the choice of living and playing for buttons in a crime ridden radiation drenched shit hole somewhere in Eastern Europe but playing in the Cl or coming to the Uk and playing for a top team I know which one I would take.

Bit offensive that.

And to be honest, Melissa Reddy is right, imo, CL is important for recruitment. You seem to have forgot that player living in "Eastern Europe" is not only getting offers from LFC but would likely be getting offers from the big German, French and other English clubs (all of whom are in the CL). What choice is he going to make?

Clearly CL is a factor for players with ambition and players who are being advised well as they get more exposure for sponsors and other opportunities if they are seen in the CL.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Not having a pop at you but I think it is a lazy cliche to say that all players want to play in the champions league and that is their sole motivator. If I was a player with a young family and given the choice of living and playing for buttons in a crime ridden radiation drenched shit hole somewhere in Eastern Europe but playing in the Cl or coming to the Uk and playing for a top team I know which one I would take.

Have a word with yourself a bit over that Eastern Europe comment. Not every country in  Easten Europe is Chernobylesque, huge generilization over an entire region.

Keep in mind we have supporters from all over the world on this forum, including Eastern Europe and you are bang out of order. I am sure that wasnt your intention, at least I hope it wasnt.

[Djozer]

This is the gamble which Melissa Reddy sums up very well in her recent article.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/klopps-transfer-waiting-game-after-coutinho-sale-is-a-risky-move-/je7pg1utfpqw1vs5uuuiut3bq

You wait for right players you give yourself the best chance to do well, knowing they have highest chance of fitting the team and what Klopp wants to do.

The otherside of coin is if we miss top 4 do these players want to still come, the agent quotes in her article suggest not. And additionally are Salah, Firmino, Mane as patient as Klopp? I fully doubt it so you are in a continuous cycle of replacing players who don't want to keep waiting year after year going nowhere.

Klopps approach is the best IF players are on board for the long term. Unfortunately loyalty has gone from the game. That's Klopp's biggest enemy and was at Dortmund too. Players love him but they won't stick around waiting too long.

Good article that, and I agree with pretty much everything Reddy says there. I'm confident that we can make top four this year (which I think was always our primary aim, even though a trophy would have been nice) and perhaps at least get a round further in the CL, but it IS a gamble, whichever way you look at it.

We should be ok, provided the front three stay fit, but it sticks in the craw a bit that all our competitors have strengthened and we haven't - I realise that Van Dijk helps the defence and I think he's going to be great for us, but losing Coutinho has to make us weaker in an attacking sense. Just one signing who could have provided better cover for Mane and Salah would have made me a lot more confident going into the rest of the season. I understand the reasoning behind keeping our powder dry if the targets Klopp wants aren't available now and hopefully Edwards and co are working on transfers for the summer as we debate this, but it feels a little bit like we've missed a trick here.

Still, if we can steer clear of significant injuries then we should be alright, touch wood. On the positive side, we've rotated enough so that fatigue should be less of an issue than last season (though again, without Coutinho our ability to rotate without losing quality is somewhat diminished) and we should see more chances for Ings, Solanke and Woodburn, which will stand us in good stead going forward as the more we can develop them, the better it'll be for us in the long term. So yeah, a short term gamble that could potentially pay off big in the future. I can't pretend I'm overjoyed with the decision, but I am at least happy that the club are taking the long view. Our panicky attempts at replacing big sales in the past have often blown up in our faces, and at least we've learnt from that.

[PhaseOfPlay]

The other, other side of the coin, is that by waiting, we give other clubs the opportunity to jump in ahead of us. It's definitely a risk game, but the rewards are quite high. We've seen a lot of Klopp-era buys fit almost immediately with the team, whereas the Rodgers-era signings either took a while to settle, or were never the right moves in the first place.

[exiledintheUSA]

We'll finish 2nd, simple.  Start off by giving Tottenham a hiding this weekend.

[Djozer]

The other, other side of the coin, is that by waiting, we give other clubs the opportunity to jump in ahead of us. It's definitely a risk game, but the rewards are quite high. We've seen a lot of Klopp-era buys fit almost immediately with the team, whereas the Rodgers-era signings either took a while to settle, or were never the right moves in the first place.

Oh, I'm definitely retrospectively rationalising it a fair bit, and there's no way I would have wanted us to go into the rest of the season like this a month ago. Still, if we can finish in the top four then it'll all have been worth it - the players should have more belief in themselves, the fans will have more belief in the players, the manager, and the club's long term strategy as a whole, everything will look rosy as fuck. Klopp talks a lot about belief, and I think he's hoping that this will instill a lot in everyone, if it all works out.

And, if it doesn't, we have a ready-made excuse so actually it's not a gamble at all, it's a win-win situation. 

[Gnurglan]

Of course there is a risk associated with selling someone like Coutinho without replacing him. However, I believe there is a risk if we go buy a player straight away too. I name Carroll and Balotelli and I believe that's enough. Neither improved us but they took up a spot in the squad and both cost us a fair amount of money. And yet the biggest problem was perhaps that we couldn't part with them as quickly as we signed them. Just because you act doesn't mean that CL spot is safe and secured.

Regarding Coutinho my stance is simple, we should have kept him.

[elpistolero7]

Why is that the best we can hope for?

Is it because you have no balls?

Fuck me even after a great 48 hours people are still crying like bitches.

Fact is some of you pathetic "supporters" will never be happy. Well enjoy your miserable fucking lives.

The great 48 hours will still result in more dust in our recent trophy cabinet, I'll leave the visions of delusional-filled  grandeur to you and the rest of the superfan brigade.

Every one of our competitors brought in reinforcements. We lost our best player. Its reasonable to be worried and not be all big-billy bollocks. Wind it in.

My biggest concern is we are one injury to one of the front 3 away from the wheels falling off this season. There's nothing on the bench in attack unless Lallana suddenly regains his form of a year ago and Ings goes back 3 years in time to his Burnley form.

Letting both Sturridge (yeah I know he has injury issues, but he was an option at least) and Coutinho (20 goals/assists in 20 games) go with no replacements at all leaves a huge burden on Salah, Firmino and Mane. One injury to either for 3-4 weeks and there's top 4 gone in all likelehood. That's gross negligence.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Have a word with yourself a bit over that Eastern Europe comment. Not every country in  Easten Europe is Chernobylesque, huge generilization over an entire region.

Keep in mind we have supporters from all over the world on this forum, including Eastern Europe and you are bang out of order. I am sure that wasnt your intention, at least I hope it wasnt.

You're right he forgot to add racist and homophobic in his generalization.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Ooo Mr. Superfan with the superfan big billy bollocks talk.

I'm entitled to my opinion.

The great 48 hours will still result in more dust in our recent trophy cabinet, I'll leave the visions of delusional-filled  grandeur to you and the rest of the superfan brigade.

You do nothing but piss and moan about the club,most active after a defeat and sometimes post through gritted teeth after a win.

If you have to post shite like ''Superfan brigade'' then you have already lost,you uber fan you.

[zymespee]

i really like this thread..mostly i read this forum but i just thought i have to contribute my opinion. over the past few months i think the kinds of reactions we have seen from some supposedly liverpool fans basically is due to jealousy and envy of what other clubs who are doing. i have you noticed how abuses towards klopp and FSG increase when one of our so called rivals signs a so called top player?.. it is weird but if you leave like me as a person who dont care about what other people are doing but what i can do to impact on a situation then yo will have know problem. i have read klopp talk about this multiple times but some fans just have hard ears just to listen to the man.i know it is sometimes frustrating for some but most of the time it translates into petulant behaviours especially if you monitor twitter and other forums like i do. you see most of them spewing stuffs like oh we did not sign anyone meanwhile we blasted open our transfer record. and some form weird conspiracy theories about our owners, i would not have a problem with it if you kept these theories to yourself but to try and shove it under the throat of other fans trying to act like these theories whether based on net spend or whatever as facts thats where i have a problem. i believe we have a fantastic chance to finish 2nd and shock people in the champions league. remember we as liverpool dont need to have the greatest team in the universe to cause mayhem in the champions league. keep the faith..we are liverpool..klopp will do it

[elpistolero7]

You do nothing but piss and moan about the club,most active after a defeat and sometimes post through gritted teeth after a win.

If you have to post shite like ''Superfan brigade'' then you have already lost,you uber fan you.

Excuse me? Well, I celebrate wins like everyone does and don't post through griitted teeth, so don't make stuff up?

I don't piss and moan, I just state my opinion. I'm worried about the squad given the sales. I'm expressing it on a forum.

The guy who I responded to insulted me multiple times - but that's okay by you because he's being positive, and I'm not so optimistic?

I'm not here to win or lose, I'm stating my opinion.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I'm not here to win or lose, I'm stating my opinion.

As am I.

[Pradan]

This is the gamble which Melissa Reddy sums up very well in her recent article.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/klopps-transfer-waiting-game-after-coutinho-sale-is-a-risky-move-/je7pg1utfpqw1vs5uuuiut3bq

You wait for right players you give yourself the best chance to do well, knowing they have highest chance of fitting the team and what Klopp wants to do.

The otherside of coin is if we miss top 4 do these players want to still come, the agent quotes in her article suggest not. And additionally are Salah, Firmino, Mane as patient as Klopp? I fully doubt it so you are in a continuous cycle of replacing players who don't want to keep waiting year after year going nowhere.

Klopps approach is the best IF players are on board for the long term. Unfortunately loyalty has gone from the game. That's Klopp's biggest enemy and was at Dortmund too. Players love him but they won't stick around waiting too long.

Very good article that.

[epsomred]

Have a word with yourself a bit over that Eastern Europe comment. Not every country in  Easten Europe is Chernobylesque, huge generilization over an entire region.

Keep in mind we have supporters from all over the world on this forum, including Eastern Europe and you are bang out of order. I am sure that wasnt your intention, at least I hope it wasnt.

Yeah point taken. Reading it back it is offensive to our LFC fans overseas. I sincerely apologise.

[So… Howard Philips]

Yeah point taken. Reading it back it is offensive to our LFC fans overseas. I sincerely apologise.

And bearing in mind your avatar is an Eastern European himself you should know better.

[epsomred]

And bearing in mind your avatar is an Eastern European himself you should know better.

Yeah I know. Igor is genuinely my favourite LFC player of all time. Don't know what came over me. I think I may take  a break from posting. 

[stevensr123]

Not having a pop at you but I think it is a lazy cliche to say that all players want to play in the champions league and that is their sole motivator. If I was a player with a young family and given the choice of living and playing for buttons in a crime ridden radiation drenched shit hole somewhere in Eastern Europe but playing in the Cl or coming to the Uk and playing for a top team I know which one I would take.

I agree champions league isnt the be all  end all (see united), but the other way of enticing players is huge wages (see united) and we don't offer huge wages compared to the rest of top clubs (although our wage bill overall is huge).

that said, we don't often target players that challenge for titles/champions league/trophies.  Only really salah is the odd one out (On paper). the rest have been jewels from mid table/not challenging  clubs (Mane/Coutinho, VVD, Lallana, Alonso, Torres, mascherano, Pepe,  Keita, Firmino, Suarez I could go on). We simply aren't and never have been in the market that have required* title winners.

it seems from the beginning of January, we haven't really pushed for players this transfer window - I base that off the fact the club obliviously going through the usual people and downplaying this window from the get go. I don't think we had any intention of signing someone this window -  I disagree with it - but I just get the feeling. (Apart from VVD of course).

Problem is, its gonna be even harder to sign players this summer, being a world cup year (almost no time to complete signings) and prices often rise further, Gonna be interesting to see if we trot out any excuses.

That said, we are in a good position right now based on  the fact, we have a world class manager who has got a lot of above average players playing well above themselves, imagine what its gonna be like, when we have top class defending, goal keepers and midfielders? We are gonna win it all!

I fucking love Klopp and what he is doing currently compared to what he has spent and has at his disposal, is a minor miracle He also gave me a smile at the west brom match and i fell to pieces haha

[nico 8]

Some have thrown their toys ranting that our opponents have progressed with their new purchases whereas we have left ourselves short  in the event of an injury. Both Cheslsea and Arsenal have not addressed their weak spots. Aubameyang  and Mihkitryan replaces Sanchez and Giroud. Back line weaknesses not addressed. Chelsea lose Batsuyai and gain Giroud. Treading water- no improvement. Emerson will not improve on Alonso's goal output. Chelsea have midfield issues especially being over reliant on Hazard. Spurs have added Moura who I believe will be a good addition. He will need time to settle in. Spurs had a quiet summer. Man Utd will keep buying but with both Pogba and Lukaka struggling and adding to Mourinho's footballing philosophy- have they really strengthened? Man City haven't secured their attacking players( only because of injury to 2 big players- Sane and de Jesus) but have strengthened at the back.
We may be weaker going forward in terms of extra and alternative options, we have strengthened she back.
Key to any success for any side would be the team that steers clear of injuries. Our depth isn't as bad  as some  suggest. We do have options from the bench and our system will always make us competitive.

[epsomred]

I know a couple of Spurs fans very well through family and work and they are genuinely unhinged in their hatred of Arsenal. Not like us with Man Utd but a proper all consuming passion far more powerful than their feelings for Spurs. It's weird when you encounter it close up.  Not my idea of what it is to be a fan but it takes all sorts.

Anyway I reckon we will come roaring out of the traps, take an early 2.0 lead then stop playing, they will get 1 back early in the second half and the last 30 mins will be torture.  This seems to be a pattern again the bigger clubs this season (well MCFC and AFC at least). I plan a small wager along these lines.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Yeah I know. Igor is genuinely my favourite LFC player of all time. Don't know what came over me. I think I may take  a break from posting.

Blame the Epsom salts lad...

[Fido]

Last October on another thread I wrote the following:

Anyone who does not keep faith with Jurgen Klopp for at least the next three years is being myopic as he does have the ability to get us back to the top.

I could never understand why FSG brought in Brendan Rodgers, (who I never rated), instead of Rafa, (who is a great manager), who with proper financial backing would have been second to none and the suspicion is that Rafa would not have behaved like a nodding dog when cheapskate policies reduced the speed of progress.

No doubt at the owners behest/guidance Brendan Rodgers we sold off some quite good players, (eg. Pepe Rainer), and replaced them with cheaper less able players.

That meant that Jurgen Klopp inherited a team of inferior players from Brendan the Clueless and Jurgen Klopp has not yet been provided will the amount of funds needed to purge all of the inferior players and replace them with better ones in all departments.

The recent upside is that there has been definite progress under Jurgen Klopp but the bottleneck in progress is down to FSG.

FSG did good in bringing Jurgen Klopp to Liverpool. - Let's be clear about it; if Juren Klopp was not our manager Manchester Urinal would have snaffled him straight away and with the financial backing that the ambitious MU owners have provided they would have been out of sight under Jurgen Klopp's management.

Regarding the financial backing from Newcastle's owners: There is speculation, (not yet from valid sources), that Newcastle United may soon have new owners with ambition and deep pockets and that could be another kick in the teeth for us because Newcastle also a great manager in Rafa and given funds Rafa could turn Newcastle United into real title contenders. - (I like Newcastle United and I like Rafa but they are rivals and there are only so many good Arab owners to go around).

This season: It is still all to play for and as I see it the January transfer window will decide our fate; ambitious transfer activity from FSG, (a prolific striker, two centre back and possibly a goalkeeper), in January could see us win both the Champions League and the English League Title this season and more of the same tightwad myopic transfer activity could make, (what should be), our prime goals unachievable and could even make a somewhat crappy fourth place much harder.

Here we go again; the January transfer window has ended and FSG are in profit with regard to player transfers.

Can we still win the Champions League this year? - YES.

Can we still win the League Title this year? - YES. (Only because it is still mathematically possible but a top four spot is achievable).

No one realistically criticises Jurgen Klopp and the vast majority of the realistic fans whom some describe as negative/bed wetters/whingers/etc. in a pejorative way have faith in Jurgen Klopp and will keep faith with him for at least another three years.

That said; we have now had over 27 years of deadbeat owners: Starting with David Moores, (the architect of the mess), who sold to the cowboys for an extra £8m and a lifetime job title before landing us with FSG.

FSG appear to want to just grow the asset, they no doubt want more bums on seats and they will build more seats and conference facilities to maximize profit but on the pitch investment I have only seen ambition to achieve a top four place which is a disappointment. - To long time Liverpool Supporters like myself second place is just first loser.

[CraigDS]

Unfortunately your whole post (the old one) falls down by your own point - and that is that Klopp, like Rafa, it not a nodding dog of a manager and yet has not indicated he is unhappy in any way by what is going on or how we do things.