Topic: Mid Season Over-Optimistic Rallying Cry AKA Stop Bloody Whinging

[cornelius]

So there's a lot of negativity around and it seems like we're only a couple of ropey results away from things getting a bit toxic but I don't think things are as bad as they seem. I've just been overcome with a wave of positivity and here's why:

After all the talk from journos and ITKs in the summer about our biggest ever spend, £150m warchests etc. and what has gone on in this window it now seems really obvious to me that selling Coutinho and bringing in VVD, Keita, Salah and Ox was the plan all along. And with the power of hindsight that actually seems like it would have been a great plan. The problem is that we simply did not execute it properly. The spanner in the works was that we fudged Van Dijk and couldn't get Leipzig to shift on Keita until the summer so it's kind of fucked up our season to quite a degree and it would explain why Philsy got such a shitty on about it, he clearly thought he was off in August. Sure we could have moved for other targets instead but I think most of us seem to agree that waiting for the players we really want rather than settling for second or third best all the time and then being lumbered with shite might not be such a bad policy even if that means putting our bigger ambitions on hold slightly longer. I know it often seems like we take one step forwards and two steps back but perhaps this season is going to buck that trend and instead, by waiting, we've taken one step backwards in order to take two steps forwards in the summer.

I know that this is not ideal and we've taken a risk here, especially letting Coutinho go now and not in the summer. Our season hasn't been as smooth as we would have liked and we're not challenging for the league at this point but despite our transfer hiccups it's not been a car crash either. It goes without saying that getting a champions league spot is now imperative and you kind of get the feeling that it will be pivotal to our future under Klopp but we're more than capable of doing that.

So here's the good news. We're still executing that plan. VVD is now here. Keita will arrive soon enough. We're just gonna have to have a little more patience. The process of moving Sturridge and Mignolet on has begun and we will surely look to sign a striker and goalkeeper in the summer. Emre Can will also likely be replaced. And then? We won't be too far off a being much better side IMO.

So what can WE do? For a start we can get behind the manager and the boys for the rest of the season and try and cut out all this negative crap that rears it's ugly head every single time we don't win a game of football. There's still plenty to play for and still plenty of things to stay positive about. We can also call out and shout down all these wankers phoning in to radio shows and saturating social media with all their shite calling for the manager's head and spreading their misery wherever we see it. It's insane, even by our standards and not very helpful. At least wait and see how the season pans out before launching toys and dummies from the pram eh?

SO COME ON RED MEN LET'S FUCKING HAVE THE REST OF THIS SEASON AND SILENCE THE DOUBTERS!!!

FORZA LIVERPOOL ETC ETC!!!

YNWA

 

[Phil_88]

here here, not the best of transfer windows but fuck it, klopp nows more than most of us, so lets trust him and see what happens

[mkingdon]

I understand and appreciate the tone and intent of this thread.

I personally can get behind the team in every game, love the club and love the fact that we have Klopp but none of that precludes me from shaking my head in disbelief at the act of self sabotage that seems to be going on at the moment to the rest of our season.

I can question what's going on AND support the team.

There's no sense to what's unfolding and sometimes you have to call it as you see it.

I'm all for doing as you say, and will for every minute of every game, but I'm not going to be a blind follower when there's bullshit to be called.

[Carra-ton]

Appreciate the sentiment. The LFC fans community not just in England but worldwide is one of the best. Really the only world class thing about Liverpool football club is the fans support. Many do whinge a bit, but the banter and general awareness amongst the Liverpool fans is great.

[cornelius]

none of that precludes me from shaking my head in disbelief at the act of self sabotage that seems to be going on at the moment to the rest of our season.

Initially that's how I saw it but I suspect it was a case of letting Coutinho go now or risk missing out on VVD and having a sulking bastard on our books.

Not thrilled about Sturridge leaving without bringing someone in but let's be honest his contribution to the season so far has been neglible. Sure if we miss out on top 4 and Sturridge goes to West Brom and bangs in double figures we'll look like absolute chumps but I won't hold my breath on that one.

[stevensr123]

I support the team and sing my heart out every match I go. Doesn't mean I agree what has unfolded.

I supported the Team when Hodgson was the fucking manager, doesn't mean I agreed with him being manager - was that wrong?

You can support the team and disagree with what the club has seemly has done. I can also dislike the ownership but still support the club, is that not possible?

I will be going the spurs game on Sunday and give my up most support, like every other home game, I won't slag the team off at the match and I will be shouting for them to do their best and support them.

I just find it unbelievable we have seemly cut our own throats and I find it really sad Klopp will be the one who gets the blame if it all goes wrong. In reality we are hoping and praying Klopp pulls off another miracle like last season and the players step it up big time. that is what it has come down to, hope and prayers.

When in reality we had the time and money to plan things out much better. and the PR bull shit doesn't stand well with me as well, I just feel like the Club has thrown Klopp into the bull pit and he is going to have to salvage something from it.

Its gonna be a hell of a ride with many ups and downs, but I believe Klopp is the best person to try and get us through it. Just a shitty joke it has become like this, after a summer of false promises (biggest war chest ever, we will be keeping our best players etc)

Anyway Come on Klopp! give us another Miracle! 

[MattyBoy21]

Initially that's how I saw it but I suspect it was a case of letting Coutinho go now or risk missing out on VVD and having a sulking bastard on our books.

Not thrilled about Sturridge leaving without bringing someone in but let's be honest his contribution to the season so far has been neglible. Sure if we miss out on top 4 and Sturridge goes to West Brom and bangs in double figures we'll look like absolute chumps but I won't hold my breath on that one.

I get that but we had that sulking bastard on our books for the first half of the season and he still played his best ever football for us in that period. The decision to let him go made no sense at the time and it makes even less now.

That being said, I understand the point of this thread and will always back the team and the manager. I just don't think it's wrong to feel a bit deflated after this transfer window when it had the potential to do the exact opposite and give everyone connected with the club a boost after VVD came in.

We have a lot to look forward to still this season and there are many reasons to be excited about our future, but it can only be expected that fans will be a bit less optimistic about the rest of the season and have some questions.

[redk84]

I understand and appreciate the tone and intent of this thread.

I personally can get behind the team in every game, love the club and love the fact that we have Klopp but none of that precludes me from shaking my head in disbelief at the act of self sabotage that seems to be going on at the moment to the rest of our season.

I can question what's going on AND support the team.

There's no sense to what's unfolding and sometimes you have to call it as you see it.

I'm all for doing as you say, and will for every minute of every game, but I'm not going to be a blind follower when there's bullshit to be called.

Absolutely spot on this.

Definitely have faith in Klopp and him being the man to bring a title to us....I have my doubts but believe he can do it. There's nobody I know that wants him out at the moment. The OP is correct in the overall attitude towards things that needs to be adopted of course.

There is a lot of anger and frustration at us letting go of Coutinho and not replacing him.....and so there should be. Negligence, no other word to describe it. And I don't buy for a second that he would have down-tooled if he was forced to stay, absolute nonsense.

But I will still hope for the best this season......the sucker punch was going out the FA cup on the weekend but lets hope that this is the worst of it now and we can atleast go on to cement our place in the top 4. A good run in the CL would be a bonus

And as it has been for every approach to summer since his arrival, let us hope Klopp gets all of his targets and that there won't be any targets left by the end of the next window.

[MNAA]

It’s not ideal but it is what it is. Rather than wallow in sorrow, we should look forward to reverse the immediate bad form, get back to winning and start another unbeaten run. We still have plenty of quality and we are capable of beating anyone on a good day. A lot to play for and a lot more twists and turns between now until the end of the season. Faith and belief

[cornelius]

I get that but we had that sulking bastard on our books for the first half of the season and he still played his best ever football for us in that period. The decision to let him go made no sense at the time and it makes even less now.

That's part of the point of this thread. It makes perfect sense. Signing VVD for that kind of money was obviously conditional on Coutinho leaving for a huge sum. Once we'd fudged VVD in the summer, Phil and Barca were then told they'd have to wait. Presumably if we'd made Coutinho wait until the summer we risked losing out on VVD to City or Chelsea. And if Phil was off in the summer anyway why risk losing out on VVD for the sake of keeping him here a few more months? Seems crystal bloody clear to me. I mean we signed VVD and a few days later Coutinho is gone. Not rocket science is it?

[Jookie]

I’m going to start off with a confession. I don’t expect or think we’ll win the league under Jurgen Klopp.  Hopefully I’m very, very wrong!

That’s no indictment of Jurgen Klopp’s abilities or of the players we have playing for us. I don’t even see it as a swipe at FSG. I just see it as the reality of our situation. I wouldn’t expect anyone to win the league or CL with Liverpool. We go into those competitions with a puncher’s chance of winning them. The reality of the last 30 years tells us that. This isn’t being fatalist. It’s realism based on where we stand as a club. Our history stands for a lot, and it’s our history that keeps us competitive financially with most clubs in the World and attracts players to join us. Our history doesn’t make us the most attractive club in the World though. It doesn’t give us the ability to continually compete on transfer fees or wages with the likes of City, Real, United and Barcelona. It’s why our very best players will be tempted by those clubs. And when they come knocking it’ll be a case of when, not if they are sold. It’s exactly the same when we go shopping at Southampton. That might be hard for people to take but that’s the reality. That’s why Phillipe Coutinho would give up CL football this season and pay ~10M of his own money to leave for Barcelona.

As a supporter base and as a club what we are asking Klopp to do is turn the events of the last 30 years on their head. One man has done that, in Rafa Benitez. He was a very special manager and who had a personality to match. We’ve probably got someone in charge who is roughly on an even level with Rafa Benitez. The problem is that the situation is now more difficult. City have emerged with their astronomical spending and Tottenham have emerged as a real contender to Liverpool and Arsenal as a CL contender. The challenge to beat them clubs continually is difficult. It’s a challenge that I think most of us hugely under estimate. I pulled out a stat yesterday that showed that >80% of the domestic trophies on offer this decade have been won by Chelsea, United, Arsenal and City. If you look at the CL this decade only 1 trophy has been won by a team with less resources than us (Internazionale in 2010). It shows the hurdle we have to jump to win the league or the CL.

I don’t want to start getting into ‘par’ seasons but achieving Top 4 and getting to the KO stages of the CL is a good season for us. It’s not up their with the best in our history but it would certainly be one the best seasons in the last 15 years or so. That’s why I’ll continue to back Klopp despite the fact that I don’t expect we’ll win the league or the CL in his tenure. There’s loads for us to play for this season and going forward into next season I still think we have a puncher’s chance of winning the league or CL with Klopp in charge. With other manager’s we might not even have that. We certainly won’t have a chance if the supporters don’t get behind the manager and the players despite their reservation about the last few weeks. Now is the time to pull together rather than the time to rip ourselves apart and look to point fingers of blame. That can happen in May if need be.

[tommy LFC]

Great thread, and a great OP.

In the age of twitter and so much media in your face, it is hard to be patient. There are so many people shouting shite just to be heard it's hard not to have your judgement clouded.

But if you take a step back, like the OP, you realize we are on the right track. We are building a quality team and, even in the building process, we are doing well in the league and Europe.

It is rare to have a manager and boardroom that is so patient and that is (seemingly) so happy to work together. You look at Mourinho demanding countless transfers and Conte questioning the commitment of his board... things aren't so bad within our club!

We have a world class manager who is being given the time and resources to build a successful side... I'm happy to watch that unfold!

[MattyBoy21]

That's part of the point of this thread. It makes perfect sense. Signing VVD for that kind of money was obviously conditional on Coutinho leaving for a huge sum. Once we'd fudged VVD in the summer, Phil and Barca were then told they'd have to wait. Presumably if we'd made Coutinho wait until the summer we risked losing out on VVD to City or Chelsea. And if Phil was off in the summer anyway why risk losing out on VVD for the sake of keeping him here a few more months? Seems crystal bloody clear to me. I mean we signed VVD and a few days later Coutinho is gone. Not rocket science is it?

Except that's not true at all is it? If we are supposed to believe what our manager said after we signed VVD...

The Kop boss justified the Reds’ record spend by claiming they had to adapt to keep up with the big spenders even though he admitted it is “not nice”.

But he is adamant they don’t have to sell one of their assets to appease the money men at the club after signing the Dutch defender from Southampton.

When asked if he will now have to sell a player, Klopp said: “Nobody told me that. I have no information about that. No.

“We have good player and we don’t have to sell anybody because of that.”

If you're saying that with all the money in the game, all the money we have made from TV deals, lucrative commercial deals, sponsorships etc. that we can only make new signings by selling our best players then we may as well give up now because we will always be playing catch up and what would be the point? I'll always support the team, obviously, but it's hard to accept us selling our best player and weakening the squad and not bringing in reinforcements in the middle of an important promising season when we have money sitting in the bank and watching all of our rivals strengthen their teams.

I already said in my first post that we have so much to be excited about and our future is bright. But as mkingdon said - we can support the team and back the manager while also asking questions. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

[Nobby Reserve]

After all the talk from journos and ITKs in the summer about our biggest ever spend, £150m warchests etc. and what has gone on in this window it now seems really obvious to me that selling Coutinho and bringing in VVD, Keita, Salah and Ox was the plan all along

So a net investment by FSG of around £50m over 2 windows, despite getting a huge TV deal bonanza and CL income?

If that was the plan, the spin has hoodwinked a lot of people.

I still retain a [possibly naïve] belief/hope that they'll open their fat wallets and allow Klopp to invest in the team. I think a new keeper is a probable, and a young attacking player (Pulisic/Lemar) will happen in the summer. Replace Can (assuming he's going) with a top quality 6 and we'll be fine. That's going to take ~£200m, though.

Still doesn't mean I'm not dismayed and wetting my bed over letting Coutinho & Studge leave this month, not replacing them, and leaving the squad scarily short of proven attacking quality - especially when our midfield has looked startlingly awful both in creativity and defending the last two games.

We just need to get that top 4, or our plans may need to go back to the drawing board.

[SP]

TL:DR Redux

Cheer up! Yeah, but wah! Rinse. Repeat.

[redmark]

That's part of the point of this thread. It makes perfect sense. Signing VVD for that kind of money was obviously conditional on Coutinho leaving for a huge sum. Once we'd fudged VVD in the summer, Phil and Barca were then told they'd have to wait. Presumably if we'd made Coutinho wait until the summer we risked losing out on VVD to City or Chelsea. And if Phil was off in the summer anyway why risk losing out on VVD for the sake of keeping him here a few more months? Seems crystal bloody clear to me. I mean we signed VVD and a few days later Coutinho is gone. Not rocket science is it?

I'm all for an optimistic rallying cry, but this just leads back to interpretations of our transfer policy and arguments about money. Meh.

[stevensr123]

So a net investment by FSG of around £50m over 2 windows, despite getting a huge TV deal bonanza and CL income?

If that was the plan, the spin has hoodwinked a lot of people.

I still retain a [possibly naïve] belief/hope that they'll open their fat wallets and allow Klopp to invest in the team. I think a new keeper is a probable, and a young attacking player (Pulisic/Lemar) will happen in the summer. Replace Can (assuming he's going) with a top quality 6 and we'll be fine. That's going to take ~£200m, though.

Still doesn't mean I'm not dismayed and wetting my bed over letting Coutinho & Studge leave this month, not replacing them, and leaving the squad scarily short of proven attacking quality - especially when our midfield has looked startlingly awful both in creativity and defending the last two games.

We just need to get that top 4, or our plans may need to go back to the drawing board.

Rafa has a net spend of around 12 Million a season when he was here. that was fucking years ago. We currently have a net spend of 10 Million a season for the past 5 years.

For me that is just unbelievable.

In any case I think Everyone agrees we are heading in the right direction in terms of the manager we have, some of the talent we have in the squad, the new stand, now fighting properly in europe. Its just sad the manager doesnt seem to have the backing we had all hoped for (and was told by the usual club sources he would have).

In any case I will be backing him to the hilt, going the game and supporting the boys at the ground. We have the perfect manager, an absolute world class man and a fabulous person. lets not fuck it up! anyways this my last post on the subject, no point going on about it. I also got a warning,  even though I feel I'm trying to debate and put my points across in the right way.
 

[PhaseOfPlay]

The great thing about Klopp's philosophy and tactics is that they only require athletic players with a brain. They don't need top level skills (although he wouldn't turn that down!) to play a significant part in the process. This is different to the Rodgers way, which really does need athleticism, speed, a brain, and top-notch 1v1 skills, no matter what position you play, in order to be truly effective. For Klopp, the 1v1 stuff only has to happen in the front three, and 1 or 2 players behind those. The rest just have to be smart athletes. Smarthletes.

Basically, Klopp can go out and sign a load of Dirk Kuyts, and it would work.

So in other words, while not signing top 1v1 players in all positions was the death knell for Brendan (especially as they are so damned hard to find without having a bottomless pit of cash), for Klopp, basic football intelligence and a huge capacity for workrate is all that you really need to be successful in his system. And that opens up a world of transfer options for us in the future, and means he can have a higher hit-rate than Brendan did.

And it's not coaching that gets managers fired, for the most part. It's transfers.

And it's not managers who win games, it's players.

So the future is bright. It's not perfect, but we stand a better chance as soon as the athletes with lower football intelligence in the team are replaced with athletes with higher football intelligence. That's easier to achieve than having to find a Cruyff for every position, including goal.

[Qston]

The great thing about Klopp's philosophy and tactics is that they only require athletic players with a brain. They don't need top level skills (although he wouldn't turn that down!) to play a significant part in the process. This is different to the Rodgers way, which really does need athleticism, speed, a brain, and top-notch 1v1 skills, no matter what position you play, in order to be truly effective. For Klopp, the 1v1 stuff only has to happen in the front three, and 1 or 2 players behind those. The rest just have to be smart athletes. Smarthletes.

Basically, Klopp can go out and sign a load of Dirk Kuyts, and it would work.

So in other words, while not signing top 1v1 players in all positions was the death knell for Brendan (especially as they are so damned hard to find without having a bottomless pit of cash), for Klopp, basic football intelligence and a huge capacity for workrate is all that you really need to be successful in his system. And that opens up a world of transfer options for us in the future, and means he can have a higher hit-rate than Brendan did.

And it's not coaching that gets managers fired, for the most part. It's transfers.

And it's not managers who win games, it's players.

So the future is bright. It's not perfect, but we stand a better chance as soon as the athletes with lower football intelligence in the team are replaced with athletes with higher football intelligence. That's easier to achieve than having to find a Cruyff for every position, including goal.

A great perspective on things and also I echo the sentiments of the OP.

I get that some fans are a bit fed up at the lack of transfer activity but it has to be kept in mind that many opinions are expressed without full possession of the facts. None of us know for certain roughly how much money is in the "transfer pot" in some form. There could be 100's of millions for all I know but what I do know is I like the approach that Klopp seems to prefer which is to wait for the right player rather than going down some sort of list of preferred options in descending order. This is typified by the purchase of VVD at what most would agree is a premium. The same applies to Keita and it is just a shame that the timing of his arrival doesn`t correspond with some key departures. These things are often not perfect and timing is never going to be quite what you would like.

I think there has been a lot of overreaction to 2 consecutive defeats but in the context of the season and the run we had been on it is far from the end of the world. It is however understandable. Football creates strong emotions in all of us and the thirst for success is never ending but if we can see the bigger picture, the route to get to the ultimate aim and are confident in the man at the helm then we will be okay.

Onwards and hopefully starting with a much needed win tonight.

[Clint Eastwood]

I understand and appreciate the tone and intent of this thread.

I personally can get behind the team in every game, love the club and love the fact that we have Klopp but none of that precludes me from shaking my head in disbelief at the act of self sabotage that seems to be going on at the moment to the rest of our season.

I can question what's going on AND support the team.

There's no sense to what's unfolding and sometimes you have to call it as you see it.

I'm all for doing as you say, and will for every minute of every game, but I'm not going to be a blind follower when there's bullshit to be called.

Echo this sentiment. Never in doubt of Klopp, and will support those who look like they give a shit and actually play for the shirt. If Klopp doesn't succeed here then there's something wrong within the hierarchy of the club. For what it's worth I think he will, but it's another "key summer". 

[epsomred]

Great post and i think you are spot on when you say that Phil out and VDD, Ox and Keita in was always the plan. The trouble is a lot of fans got carried away spending monopoly money on fantasy signings so it feels like a bit of a let down now.

Bigger picture is we have one of the best managers in the world, are still in the hunt for the top 4 and at times like the City game we look brilliant. At other times we look shit, make woeful decisions re letting useful squad players go on loans etc and its easy (myself included) to overreact.

Really great post though

[Zlen]

I appreciate the thought, but loan of Sturridge did it for me. For all the talk about tomorrow, next month or next year - sometimes football really is about doing it now. I think this January will cost us dearly this season and I can not shake the question - why did we go down this path.

Looking forward to seeing us play again, but I can see what’s coming and I don’t like it.

[DPB RED]

I want to be positive and support the club through thick and thin and have done this for over 40 years. I understand there are positive things going on within the club and have a manager that provides entertaining football. I also understand the frustrations of selling our best player halfway through the season and not appearing to replacing him. I agree the VVD signing is linked to the selling of Coutinho and this would of happened in the summer if the club hadn't messed up the approach for Van Dijk. I am looking forward to the arrival of Keita and would of been good to bring him in now. I don't believe half of what is being told to us supporters by those running the club but don't think this makes me a less of a supporter. I look forward to the next 4 months and hopefully see a good run in the Champions league and a top four finish secured.

[kkhaku]

Fuck the transfer window.

Klopp has never been a manager to use big money player acquisitions as a means of securing success. He seems to have changed that stance slightly after coming to terms with what he was given when he got here, and realizing he may not have the time to wait any longer - but as a manager he is a man who has been successful without big money buys, and often while losing his best players.

He has turned is into a very dynamic team that WILL generate chances no matter how deep the opposition is sat. Brendan laid much of the foundation for that and now as a result we've very rarely been held goalless.

His job now is not to replace Phil, it's to make us competitive in our half of the pitch. That amazing front 3 are as defensively woeful in their roles as are the rest of the squad. It's no longer a problem that can be blamed on one or two individuals. As much as this fanbase tries to blame our problems on Moreno and Mignolet, the truth is our whole squad defend like schoolboys. That will not be fixed in the transfer market, and Klopp knows it.

The best thing about it - we get to put our trust in Klopp. Not the hyped up moneypit transfer market, not the moneymen up top who watch 1 match a season, and not one little Brazilian. The only one who can fix this shite to save our season is Juergen, and there really is no one else I'd rather put my faith in.

[Keith Lard]

Fuck the transfer window.

Klopp has never been a manager to use big money player acquisitions as a means of securing success. He seems to have changed that stance slightly after coming to terms with what he was given when he got here, and realizing he may not have the time to wait any longer - but as a manager he is a man who has been successful without big money buys, and often while losing his best players.

He has turned is into a very dynamic team that WILL generate chances no matter how deep the opposition is sat. Brendan laid much of the foundation for that and now as a result we've very rarely been held goalless.

His job now is not to replace Phil, it's to make us competitive in our half of the pitch. That amazing front 3 are as defensively woeful in their roles as are the rest of the squad. It's no longer a problem that can be blamed on one or two individuals. As much as this fanbase tries to blame our problems on Moreno and Mignolet, the truth is our whole squad defend like schoolboys. That will not be fixed in the transfer market, and Klopp knows it.

The best thing about it - we get to put our trust in Klopp. Not the hyped up moneypit transfer market, not the moneymen up top who watch 1 match a season, and not one little Brazilian. The only one who can fix this shite to save our season is Juergen, and there really is no one else I'd rather put my faith in.

I agree with a lot of what you say. But it’s a sad indictment of our ownership that a club of our prestige are taking a Borussia Dortmund approach. Our history and prestige should mean we are a final destination club, not a moneyball club. I still think we can do great things on the pitch. But make no mistake about it, we are not being run as a super club and deep down we all know it. To not state this would be delusional.

Nevertheless we do have a lot to be optimistic and grateful for, and if we get behind the team and our great manager we may be able to pull off something wonderful this season. That is cause for hope and excitement.

[lgvkarlos]

Every single other team in top six has improved their squad.
Coutinho, Sturridge, Grujic out, looks like Ejaria also. Lallana and Clyne still injured.
VVD in.
Only the end of the season will let us no if we have made a mistake.
Personally feeling very worried, let's hope we get no injuries and Klopp works his magic.

[sms1986]

Every single other team in top six has improved their squad.
Coutinho, Sturridge, Grujic out, looks like Ejaria also. Lallana and Clyne still injured.
VVD in.
Only the end of the season will let us no if we have made a mistake.
Personally feeling very worried, let's hope we get no injuries and Klopp works his magic.

How does this fit in a thread about being optimistic?

Lallana might be back for Spurs and Clyne might be back some time next month.

[lgvkarlos]

How does this fit in a thread about being optimistic?

Lallana might be back for Spurs and Clyne might be back some time next month.

That was my optimistic post.

[penga]

I just dread the day we turn into something like ArsenalFanTV/Arsenal fans with that level of toxicity. I can definitely seeing it head that way if we don't get positive results even for the rest of this season such is the fickle nature of football fans these days. You can even see it happening at Man Utd and Jose during their poor spells which is great btw!

I'm baffled how people don't realise Klopp for all his perceived flaws is the most important man for the vision and future of this club and if people drive him away then we are really fucked - there is no medium/long term world class manager replacement left on Earth we are able to get. Just let him work and be together with the fans ultimate support that he demands! It's a powerful thing.

After a run of 18 undefeated we were losing a 2nd game in a row and already being audibly booed in the stadium, what the fuck is this shit? All these phone in and twitter negative nonsense also does my head in. Get some fucking positivity into ya, you miserable bastards!!!

[Red_Mist]

FORZA LIVERPOOL ETC ETC!!!

Much prefer OLÉ OLÉ


Well said mate. These fellas on the phone ins questioning Klopp should be tasered in the bollocks.

[cornelius]

Except that's not true at all is it? If we are supposed to believe what our manager said after we signed VVD...

Believe what you want mate. He's not likely to come out and say otherwise is he?.

Fact is in the summer we tried to sign all of those players (VVD, Keita, Salah, Ox and Robertson) for the best part of £200m. No way we were doing all that without selling Coutinho in the summer and the fact that he sat out a really tough CL qualifier is the biggest giveaway. He was going. Once it became clear we couldn't get VVD and Keita we pulled the plug on it.

Anyway things are looking not too shabby tonight. And maybe, just maybe all these clubs scrambling around and falling over themselves to sign each others players will prove to be as silly as Klopp thinks it all is after all.

[Bergersrightwingviews]

The great thing about Klopp's philosophy and tactics is that they only require athletic players with a brain.

Basically, Klopp can go out and sign a load of Dirk Kuyts, and it would work.

No, it wouldn’t because we need to be able to beat the 10+ teams that have no interest in having the ball when they play us. That is precisely the problem at the moment. The midfield had a lot of legs but not very much ability on the ball.

[PhaseOfPlay]

No, it wouldn’t because we need to be able to beat the 10+ teams that have no interest in having the ball when they play us. That is precisely the problem at the moment. The midfield had a lot of legs but not very much ability on the ball.

That's why I said "athletes with a brain"

Intelligence trumps technical ability in football (unless the technical ability also has a brain)

[jillcwhomever]

So in third place now, beat Spurs at the weekend and second beckons. Come on you Redmen.

[Bergersrightwingviews]

That's why I said "athletes with a brain"

Intelligence trumps technical ability in football (unless the technical ability also has a brain)

I still don’t think that is enough. Kuyt had a good football brain, but not a particularly good first touch, close control of short passing which I am increasingly convinced is the only way you break down teams that sit deep against you. It was different in the Ferguson days when two good crossers and two deadly forwards would work but I think teams are far better drilled defensively nowadays.

[PhaseOfPlay]

I still don’t think that is enough. Kuyt had a good football brain, but not a particularly good first touch, close control of short passing which I am increasingly convinced is the only way you break down teams that sit deep against you. It was different in the Ferguson days when two good crossers and two deadly forwards would work but I think teams are far better drilled defensively nowadays.

Even still, my point still stands - Klopp's system is built on pressing and counter-attacking, and you don't need 11 great 1v1 players to do that, the way the Rodgers possession domination system does. 1 goalkeeper and 10 Dirk Kuyts would be more successful in the Klopp system than they would in the Rodgers system. It makes buying players easier, because the base requirements are athletic and tactical in nature, rather than technical. Technical players of high quality who are also smart and athletic are hard to find and expensive. Athletic players who are smart are a lot easier to find and less expensive.

[Bergersrightwingviews]

Even still, my point still stands - Klopp's system is built on pressing and counter-attacking, and you don't need 11 great 1v1 players to do that, the way the Rodgers possession domination system does. 1 goalkeeper and 10 Dirk Kuyts would be more successful in the Klopp system than they would in the Rodgers system. It makes buying players easier, because the base requirements are athletic and tactical in nature, rather than technical. Technical players of high quality who are also smart and athletic are hard to find and expensive. Athletic players who are smart are a lot easier to find and less expensive.

I agree that 10 Dirks is perfect for Klopp’s plan A. Problem is, as we have seen, plan A isn’t enough. It is going to be bloody difficult to find 10 technically proficient, intelligent and hard-working players, but that is pretty much what we are going to need, though perhaps you can get by without 10 in the side every week.

We have Salah, Mane, Firmino, VVD and soon Keita who I think fit the bill.

Instead of a like for like replacement for Coutinho I think we actually need a deeper lying playmaker who can take control of a game. My dream would be a peak Alonso or Modric type.

[PhaseOfPlay]

I agree that 10 Dirks is perfect for Klopp’s plan A. Problem is, as we have seen, plan A isn’t enough. It is going to be bloody difficult to find 10 technically proficient, intelligent and hard-working players, but that is pretty much what we are going to need, though perhaps you can get by without 10 in the side every week.

We have Salah, Mane, Firmino, VVD and soon Keita who I think fit the bill.

Instead of a like for like replacement for Coutinho I think we actually need a deeper lying playmaker who can take control of a game. My dream would be a peak Alonso or Modric type.

You f&cking well hit the cl*t right on the nail there, you c*nting bastard

[Bergersrightwingviews]

You f&cking well hit the cl*t right on the nail there, you c*nting bastard

Hahaha. We can dream, eh?

[Bobinhood]

And also Danny Ings is gonna turn out to be Bobby Ings and we will have two of them just wait for it.