Author Topic: Suso  (Read 37518 times)

Offline Classycara

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Re: Suso
« Reply #320 on: October 15, 2017, 11:03:12 PM »
This would've been true years ago, but no longer is the case. Wijnaldum and Sissoko cost over 50m between them when they were playing for Championship clubs and the market has become even more bizarre since then. You don't need to be integral to a club to be worth 30m these days, you just need to be in the first team squad of one of the big teams in the Premier League.

Yes, but that's because we're in the premier league. Those two wouldn't have cost that much going to Italian teams (if no PL teams were in for them).

Offline Gerry Attrick

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Re: Suso
« Reply #321 on: October 15, 2017, 11:12:35 PM »
Yes, but that's because we're in the premier league. Those two wouldn't have cost that much going to Italian teams (if no PL teams were in for them).

In my opinion if we had Suso and we decided to sell him we'd get at least £30m for him from some team, whether that be a team lower down the Premier League food chain or a team abroad. I think the same is true if AC Milan decide to cash in next summer.

Ultimately though, I'm happy for Suso. He's doing well for himself and I'm sure another Spain call up will be forthcoming in the not too distant future.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 11:23:32 PM by Gerry Attrick »

Offline Classycara

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Re: Suso
« Reply #322 on: October 15, 2017, 11:29:31 PM »

Ultimately though, I'm happy for Suso. He's doing well for himself and I'm sure another Spain call up will be forthcoming in the not too distant future.

Spot on, same here.

I think the only disagreement I have is that if he stayed here he wouldn't have developed as well as he has now.

Offline kcbworth

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Re: Suso
« Reply #323 on: October 16, 2017, 03:55:49 AM »
Salah was signed for £35mil, Balde for about £30mil. Both are much more productive and established.

Isn't Schick around 35 mil euros?

Either way, these are players that were integral at their clubs. That's why they require big fees from rich clubs like us, or financially doped teams like Chelsea and Inter. For Suso to be worth anywhere near 30 million for us, he'd have to be an important player that we didn't want to lose (and the bid would have to be from a premier league team or one of 5-10 rich clubs in the world).

I just don't see it. There was no outcome of his time here, with a short contract and behind better players (who we've improved on), where we could have earned any more than around £15mil (if anyone made an eyebrow raising Ibe-like bid) after the TV money was upped.

I vaguely remember Milan pricing him at 50m when Spurs were interested over the summer??

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Re: Suso
« Reply #324 on: October 16, 2017, 09:27:47 AM »
I think Italy suits him much more than this league.
Thank Fowler we're not getting Caulker

Offline spinaltapped

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Re: Suso
« Reply #325 on: October 18, 2017, 01:34:47 AM »
Suso : Liverpool as Coutinho : Inter

There was clearly a player in there, but they were unable to kick on due to lack of opportunities and inconsistent form. They were given new life with a change of scenery and able to develop to the player they were meant to be. They are also used as a stick to beat the respective teams with, and the narrative has become the move was always destined to be a bad idea and was short sighted for too low of a fee.

In reality, it's just a matter of the right move at the right time with the right support and an opportunity which was grasped by the player. I'm happy he's doing great and I wish him a lot of success (except against us, of course), as he always seemed like a good lad, but he's not the player we sold and he wouldn't have been if he had stayed with us.

Just my .02c

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Re: Suso
« Reply #326 on: October 18, 2017, 01:40:27 AM »
Suso : Liverpool as Coutinho : Inter

There was clearly a player in there, but they were unable to kick on due to lack of opportunities and inconsistent form. They were given new life with a change of scenery and able to develop to the player they were meant to be. They are also used as a stick to beat the respective teams with, and the narrative has become the move was always destined to be a bad idea and was short sighted for too low of a fee.

In reality, it's just a matter of the right move at the right time with the right support and an opportunity which was grasped by the player. I'm happy he's doing great and I wish him a lot of success (except against us, of course), as he always seemed like a good lad, but he's not the player we sold and he wouldn't have been if he had stayed with us.

Just my .02c

We don't have a buy back clause do we?
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Offline Anywhichwayicant

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Re: Suso
« Reply #327 on: October 18, 2017, 02:12:05 AM »
Suso : Liverpool as Coutinho : Inter

There was clearly a player in there, but they were unable to kick on due to lack of opportunities and inconsistent form. They were given new life with a change of scenery and able to develop to the player they were meant to be. They are also used as a stick to beat the respective teams with, and the narrative has become the move was always destined to be a bad idea and was short sighted for too low of a fee.

In reality, it's just a matter of the right move at the right time with the right support and an opportunity which was grasped by the player. I'm happy he's doing great and I wish him a lot of success (except against us, of course), as he always seemed like a good lad, but he's not the player we sold and he wouldn't have been if he had stayed with us.

Just my .02c
:thumbup

Offline zabadoh

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Re: Suso
« Reply #328 on: October 21, 2017, 12:25:33 AM »
The only question is how can we find more Coutinho's and filter out the Suso's?
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Re: Suso
« Reply #329 on: October 22, 2017, 03:43:32 PM »
The only question is how can we find more Coutinho's and filter out the Suso's?

Weíve got Woodburn, TAA and Gomez who have all done more than Suso ever did in a red shirt
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Offline Keith Lard

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Re: Suso
« Reply #330 on: October 23, 2017, 03:58:30 PM »
Suso : Liverpool as Coutinho : Inter

There was clearly a player in there, but they were unable to kick on due to lack of opportunities and inconsistent form. They were given new life with a change of scenery and able to develop to the player they were meant to be. They are also used as a stick to beat the respective teams with, and the narrative has become the move was always destined to be a bad idea and was short sighted for too low of a fee.

In reality, it's just a matter of the right move at the right time with the right support and an opportunity which was grasped by the player. I'm happy he's doing great and I wish him a lot of success (except against us, of course), as he always seemed like a good lad, but he's not the player we sold and he wouldn't have been if he had stayed with us.

Just my .02c

Nailed it! Wish more people would get it

Offline kcbworth

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Re: Suso
« Reply #331 on: October 26, 2017, 02:09:43 PM »
Nailed it! Wish more people would get it

Yeah all those Inter fans lamenting the talent they could still have are such numpties. They should just accept it and not wonder what could have been  :duh

Offline Keith Lard

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Re: Suso
« Reply #332 on: October 27, 2017, 12:40:41 PM »
Yeah all those Inter fans lamenting the talent they could still have are such numpties. They should just accept it and not wonder what could have been  :duh

Two very different situations but donít let that stop you making the ridiculous comparison to one of the best value transfers of all time.

We gave Suso many opportunities to make it at Liverpool and also on loan but he never quite demonstrated he was ready to have a continuous run in the first team.  Same for many youngsters. Itís an inevitability that some of them will go on to have a successful career and thatís great. You canít win them all.

Suso needed Milan.  He would never have hit such heights here and thatís that.

 Now off with your head

Offline Anywhichwayicant

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Re: Suso
« Reply #333 on: October 27, 2017, 12:44:15 PM »
Two very different situations but donít let that stop you making the ridiculous comparison to one of the best value transfers of all time.

We gave Suso many opportunities to make it at Liverpool and also on loan but he never quite demonstrated he was ready to have a continuous run in the first team.  Same for many youngsters. Itís an inevitability that some of them will go on to have a successful career and thatís great. You canít win them all.

Suso needed Milan.  He would never have hit such heights here and thatís that.

 Now off with your head
He played about five times for us....

Online Dench57

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Re: Suso
« Reply #334 on: October 27, 2017, 12:45:55 PM »
Mental we let this kid go. What a player he's turning into.

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Re: Suso
« Reply #335 on: October 27, 2017, 12:59:19 PM »
Mental we let this kid go. What a player he's turning into.

Mental how people canít understand how he never would have developed the same way playing for us. Heís shining in a shite AC Milan team and has had a first team place consistently which he wouldnít have had here.

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Re: Suso
« Reply #336 on: October 27, 2017, 01:17:19 PM »
Mental how people canít understand how he never would have developed the same way playing for us. Heís shining in a shite AC Milan team and has had a first team place consistently which he wouldnít have had here.
Ő know where you're coming from, but we've given far worse players more opportunities.

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Re: Suso
« Reply #337 on: October 27, 2017, 01:40:52 PM »
Mental how people canít understand how he never would have developed the same way playing for us. Heís shining in a shite AC Milan team and has had a first team place consistently which he wouldnít have had here.

But he looked really good every time he played for us? It's not like when he played he looked average. It was clear he was good, hence the outrage when we let him go.
Shame someone can't express a different point of view without the howling mob needing to persecute the guy, forums are meant to have differents points of view, not some party line ! Deal with it.

Offline Classycara

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Re: Suso
« Reply #338 on: October 27, 2017, 01:41:44 PM »
Ő know where you're coming from, but we've given far worse players more opportunities.

And so, when we have better alternatives available in midfield, you'd like to increase the number of opportunities we give to inferior players?

Offline Classycara

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Re: Suso
« Reply #339 on: October 27, 2017, 01:42:45 PM »
But he looked really good every time he played for us? It's not like when he played he looked average. It was clear he was good, hence the outrage when we let him go.

Funnily enough, no outrage when Luis Alberto left. It's almost as if being in and around the squad, and more of a known quantity, makes the appeal of playing and developing incomplete young players diminish.

Offline Anywhichwayicant

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Re: Suso
« Reply #340 on: October 27, 2017, 01:43:49 PM »
And so, when we have better alternatives available in midfield, you'd like to increase the number of opportunities we give to inferior players?
He's far more talented than Wijlaldum. Igor Biscan played far more for us.

Offline Dubred

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Re: Suso
« Reply #341 on: October 27, 2017, 02:31:40 PM »
Wrong place wrong time seems to be unfortunately what it boils down to for this lad I think.

Just read he's got 4 goals in 9 Serie A appearances so far this season  :o

He's doing brilliantly over there.  Delighted for the lad.

Offline Classycara

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Re: Suso
« Reply #342 on: October 27, 2017, 02:35:46 PM »
He's far more talented than Wijlaldum. Igor Biscan played far more for us.

You don't do logic, do you?

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Re: Suso
« Reply #343 on: October 27, 2017, 08:20:01 PM »
You don't do logic, do you?
I do. That's my problem.

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Re: Suso
« Reply #344 on: October 27, 2017, 08:44:45 PM »
You and I have different definitions of treating someone badly!

Players who are good enough force their way into their preferred position. He wasn't able to do this at a time when we were much weaker than now in the midfield three

Clearly.

He was good enough, that was the problem.

He didn't much of a chance.

Offline Gitsy606

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Re: Suso
« Reply #345 on: October 27, 2017, 10:04:52 PM »
Clearly.

He was good enough, that was the problem.

He didn't much of a chance.

Suso did show promise when he played but he wasn't as good as Sterling who came into the side at the same time, I don't know any top team that ever brings two teenagers through at the same time, it's too big of a risk and patience would not have been shown if results dropped for the sake of developing a promising young player , he couldn't get into a bad Milan side when he first went over and he's had over a 100 first team games since he first played for Liverpool  , he would have almost certainly not developed into the player he is now ( still debatable whether hed even start for us ) if he was kept around, all teams lose players like Suso who with better opportunities at a lower level fulfil their potential , Liverpool are not always going to get it right and it's ridiculous to come around now and beat the club because eventually Suso came good.

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Re: Suso
« Reply #346 on: October 27, 2017, 10:12:20 PM »
Arguing over Suso of all players, 'kin hell.

Offline Klippity Klopp

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Re: Suso
« Reply #347 on: October 27, 2017, 10:16:13 PM »
Liverpool are not always going to get it right and it's ridiculous to come around now and beat the club because eventually Suso came good.

I was saying it all along when he was at the club.

We gave him a chance early, such as against Norwich.  He showed promise, he was always a fantastic talent and I think we didn't manage him or develop him well and yes I think he deserved more chances than he got.

I said this at the time, I said this when he left and I'll keep saying it as he was so talented and we did not make the most of it - Milan are.

This is the Suso topic, of course clubs will get things right & wrong.

I think we got it wrong with Suso though and it is a great shame.

Edit - Ignore Samie, most of us do! :D

Offline Anywhichwayicant

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Re: Suso
« Reply #348 on: October 27, 2017, 10:19:00 PM »
Arguing over Suso of all players, 'kin hell.
Why?

Far better than our current midfield.

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Re: Suso
« Reply #349 on: October 29, 2017, 11:23:34 AM »
Why?

Far better than our current midfield.
Would he be better than Lallana or Coutinho in the 3? Salah or Mane on the right? Coutinho or Mane on the left?

We only miss him in the context of being injury-stricken right now imo, and it'd be a bit daft to want him as third choice in those positions. I don't think we were really right or wrong to let him go, just one of those things.

Offline Chalky Boots

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Re: Suso
« Reply #350 on: October 29, 2017, 11:58:31 AM »
Why?

Far better than our current midfield.

He's not and he's a forward. We all expected him to be a David Silva metronome but he's making his career as a paceless Arjen Robben.
I think he's becoming a great player but that was never happening if he stayed around here and in England. Moving to Milan and Montella is the best thing that's ever happened to him - even if it's not working out for Vincenzo.

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Re: Suso
« Reply #351 on: October 29, 2017, 12:45:23 PM »
Would he be better than Lallana or Coutinho in the 3? Salah or Mane on the right? Coutinho or Mane on the left?

We only miss him in the context of being injury-stricken right now imo, and it'd be a bit daft to want him as third choice in those positions. I don't think we were really right or wrong to let him go, just one of those things.

Hold on. Can, Wijnaldum and Henderson have been our midfield (for what feels like) forever.

Would he be a better option than those, absolutely. He actually creates things instead of running around and passing a ball five yards.

Injuries happen in football so no idea why that's relevant. It's a bit like saying 'imagine having Messi and Cristiano'.

Like I said the other day, you can't judge things at their idyllic best, you judge them on their average output. Injuries happen, we don't have the squad to cope. If Suso was in the squad, do I think we're better? Absolutely.

And I say that as someone who thinks players often need a change of scenery to improve, but Suso didn't get a chance here. Far less talented players have played a lot more for us.

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Re: Suso
« Reply #352 on: October 29, 2017, 12:50:26 PM »
He's not and he's a forward. We all expected him to be a David Silva metronome but he's making his career as a paceless Arjen Robben.
I think he's becoming a great player but that was never happening if he stayed around here and in England. Moving to Milan and Montella is the best thing that's ever happened to him - even if it's not working out for Vincenzo.

I think he would be better as a CM.

Silva only started playing in the centre of the park a couple years ago, before that the majority of his games came out wide, Montella has tried o play him in CM a couple times this season, but i don't think he is tactically savvy enough to deal with Suso and the teams next stage of development.

Offline Chalky Boots

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Re: Suso
« Reply #353 on: October 29, 2017, 01:25:40 PM »
Silva was playing as a number 10 years back with Valencia, he was out wide largely because Mancini plays with a box midfield. Not saying Suso can't play it at some point but it does mean completely changing as a player again.

Offline kcbworth

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Re: Suso
« Reply #354 on: November 7, 2017, 11:07:38 AM »

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Re: Suso
« Reply #355 on: November 15, 2017, 09:49:36 AM »
Hold on. Can, Wijnaldum and Henderson have been our midfield (for what feels like) forever.

Would he be a better option than those, absolutely. He actually creates things instead of running around and passing a ball five yards.

He might create things, but he won't keep the ball or defend like those three. People complain already that our midfield gets bypassed, and you want to replace the most defensive minded of those with Suso?!

There is no way he would make our starting 11 if everyone was fit. He wouldn't even be second choice for most of his preferred positions.

If you had £35 million to spend right now would you sign Suso or would you look elsewhere? You would look elsewhere. Which means that even if Suso was here, we would be looking to upgrade on him.

Offline joekim87

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Re: Suso
« Reply #356 on: November 17, 2017, 04:19:00 AM »
I've always liked Suso so I'm super sad and happy to see him flourish somewhere else. He was so damn silky smooth and I was hoping we'd see Sterling and Suso play on the opposite flanks for many years. Got Mane and Salah so I'm not complaining but Suso was a smooth criminal. Anyone got a gif of that move he did on that Newcastle player that one time?

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Re: Suso
« Reply #357 on: November 19, 2017, 12:05:03 AM »
He might create things, but he won't keep the ball or defend like those three. People complain already that our midfield gets bypassed, and you want to replace the most defensive minded of those with Suso?!

There is no way he would make our starting 11 if everyone was fit. He wouldn't even be second choice for most of his preferred positions.

If you had £35 million to spend right now would you sign Suso or would you look elsewhere? You would look elsewhere. Which means that even if Suso was here, we would be looking to upgrade on him.

Suso most likely (I repeat most likely) wouldn't be able to handle the pace here as we saw. But players develop and all that jazz - but he wasn't going to have the time or opportunity to learn his trade in the PL.