Author Topic: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY  (Read 4440 times)

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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2022, 11:31:32 am »
How were you being forced into converting to Islam?

We'll wait for his answer but a free (ie not a captured soldier) adult male getting forced into it is likely woman related... to marry a Muslim you have to convert. Or less likely a business opportunity in the gulf / Muslim majority country.

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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2022, 11:43:38 am »
Who cares?

There is no objective measurement of 'offensive'.  People can take offence at the most extraordinary things. And even if there was some way of grading 'offensiveness' objectively it would have no bearing on the argument about 'Satanic Verses' or any other book/play/film/artwork etc. An offensive novel is as legitimate as an anodyne one.

I guess I was just interested to know. I suppose when I think about a situation I always try to think about all points of view. For example if it was Tommy Robinson on stage or Trump would I have given a shit. If I am truthful (even though I said I don't condone that violence) I probably wouldn't have given a shit. And I guess that's down to the fact I don't agree with what trump or Robinson say (you can throw in Frottage as well). As I mentioned I am anti religion so wouldn't agree with the reasons behind the attach but there are times when I suppose I would disagree with "free speech" and those spouting things I don't like or someone making up blatant lies. I guess it's a case of why is it ok for me to justify some things and not others. 

I know it's a novel but I am sure there are people who read books and question bits as to whether they might be true or not. I haven't read it so just wanted some clarity that's all.





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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2022, 11:53:19 am »
My only memory of the book was that it was very humorous.
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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2022, 11:54:40 am »
I guess I was just interested to know. I suppose when I think about a situation I always try to think about all points of view. For example if it was Tommy Robinson on stage or Trump would I have given a shit. If I am truthful (even though I said I don't condone that violence) I probably wouldn't have given a shit. And I guess that's down to the fact I don't agree with what trump or Robinson say (you can throw in Frottage as well). As I mentioned I am anti religion so wouldn't agree with the reasons behind the attach but there are times when I suppose I would disagree with "free speech" and those spouting things I don't like or someone making up blatant lies. I guess it's a case of why is it ok for me to justify some things and not others. 

I know it's a novel but I am sure there are people who read books and question bits as to whether they might be true or not. I haven't read it so just wanted some clarity that's all.

I understand your point. It's very human.

In saying 'Who Cares?' I merely meant that it's irrelevant whether anyone was offended or not by the book Rushdie wrote. It neither justifies the Iranian Fatwa (obviously) nor its right to be published and read.

The book, actually, is far more offensive (to use that word) about Britain than it is about Islam. Or so it appeared to me. But certain Muslims do get offended at the slightest things (Christians too for that matter, although not so violently these days). I suspect that many enjoy getting offended. It can be a psychologically comforting place to be. Plus it's an easy way to raise a mob if you're into that kind of thing. And many religious leaders are.

As for Trump and Robinson. Any normal person would find both men despicable. But any normal person would also want to protect their right to free speech (so long as it was consistent with the laws of the land). After all it's dead easy to support the free speech of those we agree with. The more important task is to protect the free speech of those we find abhorrent.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2022, 11:56:14 am by Yorkykopite »
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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2022, 12:25:23 pm »
I understand your point. It's very human.

In saying 'Who Cares?' I merely meant that it's irrelevant whether anyone was offended or not by the book Rushdie wrote. It neither justifies the Iranian Fatwa (obviously) nor its right to be published and read.

The book, actually, is far more offensive (to use that word) about Britain than it is about Islam. Or so it appeared to me. But certain Muslims do get offended at the slightest things (Christians too for that matter, although not so violently these days). I suspect that many enjoy getting offended. It can be a psychologically comforting place to be. Plus it's an easy way to raise a mob if you're into that kind of thing. And many religious leaders are.

As for Trump and Robinson. Any normal person would find both men despicable. But any normal person would also want to protect their right to free speech (so long as it was consistent with the laws of the land). After all it's dead easy to support the free speech of those we agree with. The more important task is to protect the free speech of those we find abhorrent.

agreed, and very well put.
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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #45 on: August 13, 2022, 12:32:50 pm »
How were you being forced into converting to Islam?

Not a very exciting answer Im afraid
I was engaged to a Muslim girl from quite a conservative family. So I had to convert before we could get married.  This involved Qur'an lessons from the Imam from the family Mosque, everything fucking Wednesday.

As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #46 on: August 13, 2022, 12:37:07 pm »
Not a very exciting answer Im afraid
I was engaged to a Muslim girl from quite a conservative family. So I had to convert before we could get married.  This involved Qur'an lessons from the Imam from the family Mosque, everything fucking Wednesday.
Did you marry her? Still married? No worries if you'd prefer to not answer. I just wish to know how the story turned out! ;D
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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #47 on: August 13, 2022, 12:40:14 pm »
We'll wait for his answer but a free (ie not a captured soldier) adult male getting forced into it is likely woman related... to marry a Muslim you have to convert. Or less likely a business opportunity in the gulf / Muslim majority country.

Ha. hadnt seen this before I replied.  I working was in Malaysia for ages.
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #48 on: August 13, 2022, 01:03:50 pm »
Did you marry her? Still married? No worries if you'd prefer to not answer. I just wish to know how the story turned out! ;D
Didnt get married in the end.  I was technically still married to a British girl.  Muslim girl knew this and understood it was because I hadnt the time to get divorced when I was offered my job in Malaysia.  My British wife and I were both single when we split it was all very amicable.
We looked into it once I was overseas , but it was a massive pain in the arse. Then I fell in love again so I was in the process of the Divorce, Flight back home planned etc.  Then her Cousin found out I was still married and grassed me up to my prospective Father in law.
It was seen as a great scandal by her family.  Dad hated me, Her Mum was on our side, Which caused another problem in itself, then her brothers and sisters blamed me for their parents arguing. The whole thing became untenable.
I was heart broken, my mates reckon it was for the best in the end, so I cling to that.
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #49 on: August 13, 2022, 01:24:34 pm »
Didnt get married in the end.  I was technically still married to a British girl.  Muslim girl knew this and understood it was because I hadnt the time to get divorced when I was offered my job in Malaysia.  My British wife and I were both single when we split it was all very amicable.
We looked into it once I was overseas , but it was a massive pain in the arse. Then I fell in love again so I was in the process of the Divorce, Flight back home planned etc.  Then her Cousin found out I was still married and grassed me up to my prospective Father in law.
It was seen as a great scandal by her family.  Dad hated me, Her Mum was on our side, Which caused another problem in itself, then her brothers and sisters blamed me for their parents arguing. The whole thing became untenable.
I was heart broken, my mates reckon it was for the best in the end, so I cling to that.
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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #50 on: August 13, 2022, 01:26:40 pm »
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #51 on: August 13, 2022, 01:37:58 pm »
Not a very exciting answer Im afraid
I was engaged to a Muslim girl from quite a conservative family. So I had to convert before we could get married.  This involved Qur'an lessons from the Imam from the family Mosque, everything fucking Wednesday.

Ha. My dad converted to Catholicism to marry my mum. Needless to say his Orange mum didn’t attend the wedding. :D

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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #52 on: August 13, 2022, 01:43:36 pm »
Ha. My dad converted to Catholicism to marry my mum. Needless to say his Orange mum didn’t attend the wedding. :D
;D
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #53 on: August 13, 2022, 01:55:52 pm »
Ha. My dad converted to Catholicism to marry my mum. Needless to say his Orange mum didn’t attend the wedding. :D

I still find it funny that two white Christians can marry in Northern Ireland and it’s called a ‘mixed marriage’ and is controversial/untenable to some.

Any lawful marriage being controversial is just nonsense, but NI strikes me as particularly daft.

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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #54 on: August 13, 2022, 02:00:58 pm »
Didnt get married in the end.  I was technically still married to a British girl.  Muslim girl knew this and understood it was because I hadnt the time to get divorced when I was offered my job in Malaysia.  My British wife and I were both single when we split it was all very amicable.
We looked into it once I was overseas , but it was a massive pain in the arse. Then I fell in love again so I was in the process of the Divorce, Flight back home planned etc.  Then her Cousin found out I was still married and grassed me up to my prospective Father in law.
It was seen as a great scandal by her family.  Dad hated me, Her Mum was on our side, Which caused another problem in itself, then her brothers and sisters blamed me for their parents arguing. The whole thing became untenable.
I was heart broken, my mates reckon it was for the best in the end, so I cling to that.
Crap. I am sorry to hear that. And sorry I asked. But given you have written there, your mates might well be right and that it would have unravelled sooner or later. You surely would have been always having to watch your Ps and Qs - that's no way to lead your (married) life.
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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #55 on: August 13, 2022, 02:16:27 pm »
Crap. I am sorry to hear that. And sorry I asked. But given you have written there, your mates might well be right and that it would have unravelled sooner or later. You surely would have been always having to watch your Ps and Qs - that's no way to lead your (married) life.

No worries mate, its a while ago now.

She was fine, it was mainly her family.  I asked once, what if our child were gay.  Her answer wasnt totally re-assuring.  As long as Dad doesnt know, its fine.

The general plan was to move to Melbourne, she went to Uni there and loved it, no parents = Freedom



As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #56 on: August 13, 2022, 02:25:48 pm »
No worries mate, its a while ago now.

She was fine, it was mainly her family.  I asked once, what if our child were gay.  Her answer wasnt totally re-assuring.  As long as Dad doesnt know, its fine.

The general plan was to move to Melbourne, she went to Uni there and loved it, no parents = Freedom
Well, I expect most of here have been there (or there abouts). My sympathies.
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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #57 on: August 13, 2022, 07:01:17 pm »
So JK Rowling showed sympathy for him on social media after the attack, and in return was assured in writing, "Don't worry you are next". I am curious to know who thought that was appropriate as a reply tweet, and initial suggestions are of someone who sympathised with his attacker. She's no stranger to death threats by all accounts, but I wouldn't have thought she could do with this on top of the other stuff.
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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #58 on: August 13, 2022, 07:35:25 pm »
So JK Rowling showed sympathy for him on social media after the attack, and in return was assured in writing, "Don't worry you are next". I am curious to know who thought that was appropriate as a reply tweet, and initial suggestions are of someone who sympathised with his attacker. She's no stranger to death threats by all accounts, but I wouldn't have thought she could do with this on top of the other stuff.

Meh, the mob who hate her aren’t really dangerous, just loud and annoying. But that’s for another thread,    that can never stay unlocked :)

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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #59 on: August 13, 2022, 07:39:39 pm »
Meh, the mob who hate her aren’t really dangerous, just loud and annoying. But that’s for another thread,    that can never stay unlocked :)
If you mean trans-activists, I don't think so. Although the Twitter account has been apparently deleted, I found this cached page:

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:EzREtVaZHdIJ:https://twitter.com/MeerAsifAziz1
« Last Edit: August 13, 2022, 07:41:19 pm by Jiminy Cricket »
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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #60 on: August 13, 2022, 08:53:12 pm »
A reminder in the Guardian that this isn't a one-off.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/13/we-internalised-the-fatwa-against-salman-rushdie-this-horrific-attack-is-what-follows

Since then, there have been multiple rows and horrifying murders: the brutal attack on the Charlie Hebdo staff, the killing of the French schoolteacher Samuel Paty and, in Pakistan, the assassination of politician Salman Taseer, for speaking out for a woman convicted of blasphemy, whose conviction was ultimately overturned. Censorship is a political tool and its advocates may cite religious orthodoxy or any other dogmatic belief to claim the moral high ground and silence or even murder those they disagree with.
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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #61 on: August 14, 2022, 08:16:25 am »
He's is off his ventilator and able to talk. Sounds like he's recovering well.  :thumbup
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #62 on: August 14, 2022, 08:50:39 am »
He's is off his ventilator and able to talk. Sounds like he's recovering well.  :thumbup
Great news!
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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #63 on: August 14, 2022, 10:04:31 am »
Blimey, stabbed twelve times!
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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #64 on: August 14, 2022, 10:45:54 am »
If he does survive this after being stabbed that many times, surely the religious nuts have to think that their god is looking after him a bit?
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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #65 on: August 14, 2022, 01:07:07 pm »
Good news that he appears to be stable and very likely to survive!

However, surely the perpetrator will face federal terrorism charges to lock him up for life? Those state charges seem extremely inadequate.
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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #66 on: August 14, 2022, 01:19:15 pm »
He's is off his ventilator and able to talk. Sounds like he's recovering well.  :thumbup

That sounds promising and good to hear.
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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #67 on: August 14, 2022, 03:37:10 pm »
Khomeini had multiple heart attacks and died shortly after issuing the fatwa. Now Salman has survived being stabbed 15 times. Allah firmly in his corner, it would seem.

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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #68 on: August 14, 2022, 03:38:18 pm »
Good news that he appears to be stable and very likely to survive!

However, surely the perpetrator will face federal terrorism charges to lock him up for life? Those state charges seem extremely inadequate.

Could get 25 years for one of those charges alone.

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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #69 on: August 14, 2022, 09:34:26 pm »
Another piece of good news in the Guardian. Folks are reading Satanic Verses.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/aug/14/salman-rushdie-is-off-ventilator-and-able-to-talk-agent-says

News about the stabbing has led to renewed interest in The Satanic Verses, which topped bestseller lists after the fatwa was issued in 1989. As of Saturday afternoon, the novel ranked No 13 on Amazon.com.
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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #70 on: August 15, 2022, 09:49:10 am »
Fantastic stuff by Margaret Atwood on Rushdie and freedom of speech generally:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/15/salman-rushdie-free-speech-tyranny-satanic-verses
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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #71 on: August 15, 2022, 10:49:33 am »
I remember seeing him talk at a literature festival four or five years ago. Afterwards he held a book signing, and there I was, two foot away, able to talk to him, which may or may not have happened, and ask him to sign something, which may or may not have happened. I remember thinking how strange it was that I could have such close access to him without any security around him, or without any checks at all on me. A good thing, in the sense that he felt brave/confident enough to just get on with things, but at the same time it did make me think how much of a risk he was taking, that it would only take one person, somewhere, to do what happened a few days ago.

Now, here's the thing. I'm just an ordinary fella, born and living in the UK, and of Iranian origin. I like to go back to Iran once every few years. Yet I've heard plenty of stories of British Iranians who get told to hand over passwords to email and social media accounts, either randomly at the border or based on job roles, or anything else that might raise the slightest suspicion. I work for a UK university as it happens. So I've had plenty of thoughts that I'd like to have aired on this, on Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe, either on social media or even on here, where I've actually stopped and in a sense self-censored or edited, just because of that 0.1% bit of doubt in my mind, that bit of worry, where I think it's just not worth it. I'll stay quiet. And, honestly, when you think about this, in this context, of me, just a bloke in the UK posting on a football forum...it tells you something about the importance of these related issues.
The eternal silence of these infinite spaces frightens me

Offline lobsterboy

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Re: Salman Rushdie attacked at public event in NY
« Reply #72 on: August 15, 2022, 12:10:50 pm »
I still find it funny that two white Christians can marry in Northern Ireland and it’s called a ‘mixed marriage’ and is controversial/untenable to some.

Any lawful marriage being controversial is just nonsense, but NI strikes me as particularly daft.

Not just Ireland either.
I remember a marriage in the village where I grew up in Lancashire. My mum commented how nice the church looked and what happy occasions weddings were. Two miserable old ladies tutted and said they didn't agree with mixed marriages. Methodist and CoE.