Author Topic: Paris  (Read 184201 times)

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1840 on: September 22, 2022, 10:52:20 am »
Yep, would reconsider ESL after this, cannot be assed with UEFA corruption/lies any longer, though with huge sums of money involved the ESL would also, perhaps, be corrupt eventually. It would also have to have some kind of promotion/relegation to keep it even mildly exciting, I believe is it is the death of football at this stage.
- all in my opinion of course -

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1841 on: September 22, 2022, 11:19:25 am »
Slightly naive to assume the ESL organisers would be some bastion of fan welfare and anti-corruption imo.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1842 on: September 22, 2022, 11:34:19 am »
Slightly naive to assume the ESL organisers would be some bastion of fan welfare and anti-corruption imo.

Yep.

Football is the biggest money spinner in sport, therefore, it attracts corruption and a load of pricks who just want a piece of the pie.

As the old saying goes, 'money is the route of all evil.'

Offline oojason

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1843 on: September 22, 2022, 12:27:48 pm »

'Guardian podcast on the Champions League final: Liverpool supporters put through a chaotic, violent near-disaster, then Uefa blamed them'...


'How the Champions League final nearly ended in disaster':-

Liverpool fans attending this year’s Champions League final faced a crush outside the stadium that held stark echoes of the worst day in the club’s history. David Conn has spent months investigating what happened

www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2022/sep/22/how-the-champions-league-final-nearly-ended-in-disaster-podcast (48 minutes)
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1844 on: September 22, 2022, 12:32:20 pm »
Yep.

Football is the biggest money spinner in sport, therefore, it attracts corruption and a load of pricks who just want a piece of the pie.

As the old saying goes, 'money is the route of all evil.'
Thing is, the pie is absolutely massive, so instead of abusing fans it would be better all round if they looked after them. Covid and lockdown proved beyond any doubt that football without fans is a hollow, soulless experience. The game needs the fans. The fans make it what it is. Fans make it an occasion.

Even if they only looked at it with greedy, cynical eyes, it's still extremely wise to look after the fans because fans are the lifeblood of the game.

If the experience of fans attending the most prestigious game in club football sees many of them saying they'd never attend a game in that country again, it tells you that their treatment was dangerous, shambolic and frightening. Now that's no way to attract people to your product. Paying top money to be treated like animals is a grotesque look. In any other business heads would have rolled for what happened in Paris. All duty of care seemed to be abandoned.

UEFA are clearly unfit for purpose. We've known this for a very long time.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1845 on: September 22, 2022, 01:29:07 pm »
Slightly naive to assume the ESL organisers would be some bastion of fan welfare and anti-corruption imo.
Just a bit

The way to avoid things like this is legislation, regulation and international cooperation - not to fall into the laps of other predatory money chasers not happy with their current share of the pie, trying to breakaway to get more.

Have people forgotten that Abu Dhabi were FSG's founding partners for the ESL? And that they invited Qatar and Abramovic?

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1846 on: September 22, 2022, 03:21:48 pm »
The video of the 11 year old not wanting to ever go to a football match again is heartbreaking.

Yes it is.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1847 on: September 22, 2022, 04:53:28 pm »
The video of the 11 year old not wanting to ever go to a football match again is heartbreaking.

Absolutely fucking disgusting that they sprayed that young lad and anyone else for that matter but yeah seeing that lad in bits had me upset and fuming. Not sure if it was that lad,think it might be but I read somewhere that his dad took him to Paris and didn't tell him where they were going, then gave him his ticket in Paris because it was his birthday. Anyway If anyone did that to my lad copper or not I would go fucking mental.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2022, 06:21:02 pm by red1977 »

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1848 on: September 22, 2022, 04:59:01 pm »

'LFC provides UCL final fan experience testimonies to independent panel':-

Liverpool FC has released the following statement regarding the club's continued response to the events surrounding the 2022 Champions League final in Paris.

www.liverpoolfc.com/news/lfc-provides-ucl-final-fan-experience-testimonies-independent-panel



'Billy Hogan offers update on LFC’s continued response to UCL final events':-

Liverpool FC CEO Billy Hogan has offered an update to supporters on the club’s continued response to the events surrounding the 2022 Champions League final in Paris.

www.liverpoolfc.com/news/billy-hogan-offers-update-lfcs-continued-response-ucl-final-events
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1849 on: September 23, 2022, 07:24:49 am »
Wide is the carpet they’ll sweep this under.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1850 on: September 23, 2022, 09:20:45 am »
Its been said before on this forum, but David Conn has been outstanding. This, Hillsborough and on many other issues. One of the few that lives up to what journalism actually means.

He must cringe when no mark pundits/agenda driven hacks/click chasers/paid PR demean his profession by calling themselves journalists.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1851 on: September 23, 2022, 12:23:59 pm »
Wide is the carpet they’ll sweep this under.

UEFA bringing the report out at the end of November. I.e. wait for the World Cup to start so it gets buried.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1852 on: September 23, 2022, 12:27:01 pm »
UEFA bringing the report out at the end of November. I.e. wait for the World Cup to start so it gets buried.

Exactly what I said to a mate yesterday.
Rafa Benitez: "I'll always keep in my heart the good times I've had here, the strong and loyal support of the fans in the tough times and the love from Liverpool. I have no words to thank you enough for all these years and I am very proud to say that I was your manager. Thank you so much once more and always remember: You'll never walk alone."

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1853 on: September 23, 2022, 12:37:12 pm »
Its been said before on this forum, but David Conn has been outstanding. This, Hillsborough and on many other issues. One of the few that lives up to what journalism actually means.

He must cringe when no mark pundits/agenda driven hacks/click chasers/paid PR demean his profession by calling themselves journalists.

Quite a few journalists did good jobs over Paris, Rob Draper not someone I would usually speak up for did an excellent number of articles in his paper as well. Paris was a special case as it happened right in front of their noises and some got caught up in the tear gassing as well. No surprise on how brilliantly Conn has done on this he is one of the best investigation journalists.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1854 on: September 23, 2022, 01:00:38 pm »
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/sep/23/liverpool-fans-1700-legal-action-uefa-paris-champions-league-final

Liverpool fans plan 1,700-strong legal action against Uefa over Paris final
Fans have registered with law firms to make claims for damages
Champions League final left supporters with injuries and PTSD


More than 1,700 Liverpool supporters who have reported that they suffered physical injuries or psychological trauma because of the chaos at the Champions League final in Paris on 28 May have registered with law firms to make claims for damages against Uefa.

People signing up for the potential group claims include some who reported that they sustained broken ribs in crushes at the Stade de France before the match between Liverpool and Real Madrid, and many more reporting symptoms of anxiety and post-traumatic stress disorder.

At the match, hosted by Uefa, the confederation of Europe’s national football associations, thousands of Liverpool supporters were directed by French police on a hazardous alternative route through a subway, leading to a narrow, bottleneck perimeter checkpoint where huge queues built up into a risk of crushing. Many turnstiles at the stadium were then closed for long periods, leading to static queues and a further crushing risk, and people were also affected by police using pepper spray and firing teargas. Uefa and the French authorities blamed Liverpool supporters for the chaos and kick-off delay.

Gerard Long, a partner at Binghams solicitors in Liverpool, said more than 1,300 people had registered their interest in a potential claim, most suffering from psychological trauma.

“We are representing people who suffered physical crushing injuries at the turnstiles, and very many people who have suffered psychologically; some were in fear of their lives,” Long said. “Clients have reported anxiety, PTSD, nightmares, never wanting to go to a European football match or even France again.

“Our case is that Uefa as the organisers had a duty of care to people – who paid a lot of money for tickets – and they breached it.”

The national firm Leigh Day has registered interest from 400 people who were at the match supporting Liverpool, said Jill Paterson, the partner leading the potential group claim. She said clients had reported suffering trauma and physical injury including broken bones and bruising from the crushes at the turnstiles, and injuries from being hit with police batons and shields.

People had given “really shocking” accounts of crushing, violence and distress, Paterson said, and reported panic attacks, anxiety, sleepless nights, flashbacks and fears for their safety at future matches.

“Our clients have told us that they were crushed and teargassed, and in fear for their lives,” Paterson said. “Some are people who were previously affected by the Hillsborough disaster.

“Thousands of people spent their hard-earned money on tickets and travel to what should have been a world-class event. Their safety should have been guaranteed; that is what they paid for as part of their ticket – a well-run event with all the necessary safety and security protocols and resources in place. There is no excuse for the chaos and trauma that unfolded. We were approached by one Liverpool fan almost immediately after the event and we have been looking into this since then and liaising with French lawyers to build a strong case to try and get some redress for the fans.”

Long and Paterson said their firms were in the final stages of gathering and reviewing the evidence and, working with French lawyers, preparing to write to Uefa detailing the claims.

Liverpool said this week that they had sent testimonials from 8,500 supporters to Uefa’s “independent review” of the near-disaster. Billy Hogan, Liverpool’s chief executive, said the evidence of supporters’ “harrowing experiences” identified congestion, insufficient travel information, problems at the perimeter checkpoint and turnstiles, “excessive riot policing tactics”, lack of communication, “the emotional impact of the incorrect reason for delayed kick-off” and problems getting in and out of the stadium.

Uefa declined to respond to questions from the Guardian about the proposed legal claims. It has said it will no longer respond to any questions about the events until its review has produced its report, which is expected at the end of November.

Uefa has said it sincerely apologises “to all the fans who had to experience or witness frightening and distressing situations that evening. No football fan should be put in that situation, and it must not happen again.”


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Re: Paris
« Reply #1855 on: September 24, 2022, 06:27:32 pm »
I am alone now. I am beyond recrimination. The curtains have shut, the furniture has gone. I am transforming. I am vibrating. I am glowing. I am flying. Look at me now.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1856 on: September 24, 2022, 07:13:11 pm »
This is the latest from Rob Draper who did some really good work in the aftermath of the Paris debacle.

For past few months
@MailSport
 we’ve tried to report + investigate chaos of Stade de France at the Champions League final in Paris last May….in doing so we were contacted by so many #LFC fans with compelling stories that all deserves telling we were somewhat overwhelmed…

We had what we think is important evidence for the UEFA independent review led by Dr Rodrigues (who coincidentally is in Liverpool today meeting fans). Unsurprisingly it completely contradicts French interior minister
@GDarmanin
 narrative of ticketless fans….

We believe the tech failures precipitated chaos. Contrary to established UEFA narrative, digital tickets were part of the problem. Tech meltdown was a primary cause compounded by a potentially fatal misdirection of 37,000 #LFC fans to an entrance designed for 10,000…

….all compounded by scarcely credible lack of communication between authorities, which put lives in danger, exacerbated by inept policing. However, the info we have is so huge, we weren’t sure what to do with it….

It was far too much for a normal newspaper article and yet too important not to publish. So we made a plan for a three-fold approach

1)
@cormaccsmith
 has put together this superb digital package, combining words with videos and photos we’ve been sent

2) We have actually put together all the testimonies into a mini report, which we will be sharing with the UEFA review. It’s substantial - 12,000 words - but the sheer weight of evidence tells its own story. We will publish it online shortly

3) and for those not ready for 12,000 words (!) we have this executive summary for the paper tmrw morning (which is basically the words in the digital link above)

Some PS notes

Firstly, I need to thank the scores of fans who contacted us. There were more than 40 interviewed for this (+ we referenced other reports and credible accounts)

We are now at a critical mass where it’s impossible to thank everyone individually…

But you know who you are and without you, journalism like this can’t happen. It is the sheer weight of testimonies that allows us to be confident we can shed some light on this. And be bold enough to offer recommendations to UEFA (more of that next week)……

I was marginally caught up in chaos but those I spoke to had much worse experiences. Thank you for contacting us, for being patient with our questions + bearing with us as we complied all this. It’s one of those times where you feel everyone’s story deserves to be told….

I think we came close to something tragic that night and I shuddered writing down the words - especially how 37,000 fans were misdirected. It reminded me of reading the Hillsborough report by Ld Justice Taylor as a student…

I can’t let this thread pass without acknowledging
@david_conn
 + this excellent piece by
@guardian_sport
 

Frankly, the more media that work on this the better

https://t.co/JUN5rYuvxz

Lastly UEFA have seen our full report. They can’t comment at present as they have to let the review do its work. But they corrected a couple of things we had misinterpreted or where translation had caused confusions.
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Offline oojason

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1857 on: September 25, 2022, 01:19:04 pm »

'SOS Submission to UEFA Inquiry':-

https://spiritofshankly.com/submission-uefa-inquiry
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1858 on: September 25, 2022, 02:05:05 pm »

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1859 on: September 25, 2022, 03:35:06 pm »
An excellent summary.

Well done SOS.

Excellent: analytical, questioning and authoratative with a modicum of emotion, enough for emphasis without being subjective. Well done to all concerned and another example of why we need SOS and other representative supporter groups.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1860 on: September 25, 2022, 07:23:52 pm »
Rafa Benitez: "I'll always keep in my heart the good times I've had here, the strong and loyal support of the fans in the tough times and the love from Liverpool. I have no words to thank you enough for all these years and I am very proud to say that I was your manager. Thank you so much once more and always remember: You'll never walk alone."

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1861 on: September 26, 2022, 09:44:11 am »
Just hoping the class action suit nails them. They will try and deflect blame via their 'review', but hopefully a court will hit them in their pockets.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1862 on: September 26, 2022, 10:07:21 am »
With the overwhelming amount of evidence stacked up against them it will be interesting to see the conclusion of this review. I am still 100% certain they will take ZERO blame for anything that went on and top it off by circling around the apology to Liverpool fans but never actually apologise or take resonsibility. So yes, it will come down to suing them in the end.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1863 on: September 26, 2022, 11:04:10 am »
I know the cctv and transport cctv was shock horror deleted, but where is the body cam footage from the police ? A google search says they have been wearing them since 2021, I imagine it was the first thing to get the chop, but has that been admitted?
   
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1864 on: September 27, 2022, 10:42:05 am »

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1866 on: September 27, 2022, 12:20:17 pm »
Quite a few journalists did good jobs over Paris, Rob Draper not someone I would usually speak up for did an excellent number of articles in his paper as well. Paris was a special case as it happened right in front of their noises and some got caught up in the tear gassing as well. No surprise on how brilliantly Conn has done on this he is one of the best investigation journalists.
Agreed on other journalists re Paris Jill. Glad that they've run with it too despite the editorial stance of their employers. Draper probably got a free pass from the mail because he was having a go at the French....

Seriously though, the wider support has made a difference. Just goes to show what happens when journos deal with facts rather than unchecked accounts and media briefings.

Edit: Just read above link. Absolutely heartbreaking. Deepest and sincerest sympathies with their friends and families, and of course what the individuals themselves were going through.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2022, 12:22:06 pm by Charlie Adams fried egg »

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1867 on: September 27, 2022, 12:41:28 pm »
Rafa Benitez: "I'll always keep in my heart the good times I've had here, the strong and loyal support of the fans in the tough times and the love from Liverpool. I have no words to thank you enough for all these years and I am very proud to say that I was your manager. Thank you so much once more and always remember: You'll never walk alone."

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1868 on: September 27, 2022, 11:33:59 pm »
https://twitter.com/IanByrneMP/status/1574684776245899264?t=7uwtt3utkJI2mhlGP-Od5Q&s=19

Let's get these fucking bastards.

devastating. inbox always open to anyone if they want to discuss paris, hillsborough or anything at all really if they're in a bad place.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1869 on: September 28, 2022, 12:16:10 am »
devastating. inbox always open to anyone if they want to discuss paris, hillsborough or anything at all really if they're in a bad place.

Same here.
Fucking hell lads, let’s look after one another here first and foremost, we can disagree about the team etc, but we’re all reds.

Prayers to the families of those 3 people.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1870 on: September 28, 2022, 12:36:27 am »
https://twitter.com/IanByrneMP/status/1574684776245899264?t=7uwtt3utkJI2mhlGP-Od5Q&s=19

Let's get these fucking bastards.

97 people losing their lives was bad enough. However, the disaster and the cover-up that followed devastated the lives of so many more people. It is truly heartbreaking the toll that day, has taken on so many people and so many families.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1871 on: September 28, 2022, 12:59:42 am »

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1872 on: September 28, 2022, 07:07:11 am »
Fucking hell

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1873 on: September 28, 2022, 12:45:19 pm »
Really shocking news.

I watched the scenes outside that stadium and feared for family and friends who traveled there.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1874 on: October 3, 2022, 12:05:19 am »
Firstly I would like to pass on my condolences to the people who lost their lives in the crush in Indonesia.

We know your pain.

The other thing though is that according to reports one of FIFA's statutes is that stewards and Police should not use 'crowd control gas' at football matches.

So how does that work with footage of French Police inside the the stade de France indiscriminately tear gassing fans
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1875 on: October 3, 2022, 01:40:14 am »
It was outside the stade de france in paris,  the point of it is disperse people but it is highly dangerous where crowds have no where to go, incidents in america in a night club where it was used and caused panic as well as causing deaths when used on a crowd in africa. At least in paris the nightmare did not happen but i was gassed in a confined space leaving the stade de france and could not get out of the gas.

No time for caution.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1876 on: October 3, 2022, 06:18:04 pm »
It was outside the stade de france in paris,  the point of it is disperse people but it is highly dangerous where crowds have no where to go, incidents in america in a night club where it was used and caused panic as well as causing deaths when used on a crowd in africa. At least in paris the nightmare did not happen but i was gassed in a confined space leaving the stade de france and could not get out of the gas.



Weren't some of the incidents of tear gas inside the perimeter of the Stadium though ?

From the BBC article about the disaster. Fifa, the world's governing football body, states that no "crowd control gas" should be carried or used by stewards or police at matches.
« Last Edit: October 3, 2022, 06:25:36 pm by Al 666 »
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Offline rodderzzz

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1877 on: October 3, 2022, 06:42:02 pm »
They definitely tear gassed inside the packed and enclosed fan zone in Paris.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1878 on: October 3, 2022, 06:52:58 pm »
I seem to remember footage of a fan being tear gassed inside the perimeter after his ticket failed to scan
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1879 on: October 3, 2022, 06:55:36 pm »
I seem to remember footage of a fan being tear gassed inside the perimeter after his ticket failed to scan

Was that tear gas or pepper spray? Don't think either should be used btw.