Topic: anfield road stand

[Macred]

Wow! What a story, no formal education in his early years, making plant pots leading to what we see today!

[Alan_X]

Also worth looking at Robert Maillart, Freyssinet and Pierre Luigi Nervi for early examples of beautiful reinforced concrete:



Robert Maillart Salginatobel Bridge



Nervi



Freyssinet, Orly Airship Hangar under construction.

[Macred]

Cheers Alan, I will have a read. That airship hanger is pretty impressive.

[Red Beret]

And then you get cock ups like the RC Cathedral! 

[Timeless Melody]

[DALYMOUNT HEIGHWAY]

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=327269.0

[Alan_X]

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=327269.0

We're getting off topic. Use this for fantasy stuff please.

[spider-neil]

I think FSG will see how often we can sell out the new capacity before entering the next phase of expansion.

'If you build it, they will come'

Yeah sure, but let's wait and see how phase 1 goes first.

[Alan_X]

I think FSG will see how often we can sell out the new capacity before entering the next phase of expansion.

'If you build it, they will come'

Yeah sure, but let's wait and see how phase 1 goes first.

I always find it odd that people use the quote 'if you build it they will come' as if it's based on anything factual rather than a line spoken by a child in a fantasy movie where a team of baseball playing ghosts come out of a cornfield.

[carl123uk]

All they have to do is sell the expansion for new season tickets only and there guaranteed the sale. It would then knock a few thousand off the waiting list

[Peter McGurk]

All they have to do is sell the expansion for new season tickets only and there guaranteed the sale. It would then knock a few thousand off the waiting list

Don't you see? People on the waiting list already go to the match.

[carl123uk]

Don't you see? People on the waiting list already go to the match.

Out of 20k estimated still on the list they couldn't sell season tickets to around 8,000 of them? After another season work out the average attendance and then sell another 2/3000 season tickets and clear the list

[Nessy76]

Out of 20k estimated still on the list they couldn't sell season tickets to around 8,000 of them? After another season work out the average attendance and then sell another 2/3000 season tickets and clear the list

They don't want or need to. Been widely discussed here before. Basically, getting more people to see the match a few times a season is preferable to the same 40,000 making up the core of the crowd every week. Means more supporters get to see the team and more spend in the club shop.

[Peter McGurk]

Out of 20k estimated still on the list they couldn't sell season tickets to around 8,000 of them? After another season work out the average attendance and then sell another 2/3000 season tickets and clear the list

All that does it change GA or shared season ticket holders into Season Ticket holders. There's no extra people to fill a new stand out of it.

[carl123uk]

All that does it change GA or shared season ticket holders into Season Ticket holders. There's no extra people to fill a new stand out of it.

I'm sure if they only made any expansion to people on the waiting list they could fill it easily. Also add any members with 19 homes for the past few seasons if they are struggling to fill it at the start of each new season

[Macred]

So what we are saying in United have more fans than us willing to go the game?

[Nessy76]

I'm sure if they only made any expansion to people on the waiting list they could fill it easily. Also add any members with 19 homes for the past few seasons if they are struggling to fill it at the start of each new season

Those are all people who would be there anyway. Are you going to sell them each two seats or what?

[Alan_X]

Also add any members with 19 homes for the past few seasons if they are struggling to fill it at the start of each new season

I Know it's been picked up but did you actually read what you wrote?

[Redman0151]

Do people seriously think we couldn't sell more tickets than Newcastle each week. The anfield road expansion will be needed

[Alan_X]

So what we are saying in United have more fans than us willing to go the game?

It's quite possible, even probable, for reasons that have been gone over many times. United expanded Old Trafford on a piecemeal basis during the most successful period in their history against a background of increasing commercialisation and limited opposition (Newcastle, Leeds and Blackburn were the initial main threats until Arsenal and then Chelsea really kicked on.

If we win the league 11 or 12 times in the next twenty-odd years then there's a chance that there might be regular demand for 70,000+ at most Liverpool home games.

There are also transport, infrastructure and geographical issues that impact on the catchment area for the two clubs. 

[Alan_X]

Do people seriously think we couldn't sell more tickets than Newcastle each week. The anfield road expansion will be needed

I think we can and I hope the Road End gets done.

[Nessy76]

It's quite possible, even probable, for reasons that have been gone over many times. United expanded Old Trafford on a piecemeal basis during the most successful period in their history against a background of increasing commercialisation and limited opposition (Newcastle, Leeds and Blackburn were the initial main threats until Arsenal and then Chelsea really kicked on.

If we win the league 11 or 12 times in the next twenty-odd years then there's a chance that there might be regular demand for 70,000+ at most Liverpool home games.

There are also transport, infrastructure and geographical issues that impact on the catchment area for the two clubs.

Yes. A lot of our catchment area is in the Irish Sea and the merpeople require specialised and expensive seating. Also, not having any feet, or indeed legs, themselves, it's hard for them to really appreciate the game.

[whiteboots]

I think FSG will see how often we can sell out the new capacity before entering the next phase of expansion.

'If you build it, they will come'

Yeah sure, but let's wait and see how phase 1 goes first.

Pretty much 90,000 Reds at Wembley for Saturday- makes you think, doesn't it?

[Alan_X]

Pretty much 90,000 Reds at Wembley for Saturday- makes you think, doesn't it?

Were you at the match? I'd say a fair number in that crowd have never been to Anfield and probably never will. Loads of southern fans with their girlfriends on a summer outing, families with young kids, 'football fans', people who just fancied watching a match between Barcelona and Liverpool.

90,000 for a one-off game in the sunshine doesn't translate into selling out 19 home games. How many that were there (who don't already go the game) would be up for Stoke on Boxing Day?

[Cork Red]

Were you at the match? I'd say a fair number in that crowd have never been to Anfield and probably never will. Loads of southern fans with their girlfriends on a summer outing, families with young kids, 'football fans', people who just fancied watching a match between Barcelona and Liverpool.

90,000 for a one-off game in the sunshine doesn't translate into selling out 19 home games. How many that were there (who don't already go the game) would be up for Stoke on Boxing Day?

FOOTBALL!!!!!!!

[Alan_X]

FOOTBALL!!!!!!!

[YNWAArkAngel]

Were you at the match? I'd say a fair number in that crowd have never been to Anfield and probably never will. Loads of southern fans with their girlfriends on a summer outing, families with young kids, 'football fans', people who just fancied watching a match between Barcelona and Liverpool.

90,000 for a one-off game in the sunshine doesn't translate into selling out 19 home games. How many that were there (who don't already go the game) would be up for Stoke on Boxing Day?

i agree some families with kid wearin barca shirt and liverpool it a mixture i rather fill the ground first 58k and if demand is there in a year or 2 anfield rd have to next follow by centenary in 30 40 50 years time who know what future will bring..........

however the demand for wheelchairs is there, for me i were able purchase 6 home games in 1st half season as couldnt get leicester and hull and west ham as all sold out so will be tryin again closer date if any return etc

[Macred]

All seems a bit negative to me. We had 28,000 on a season ticket waiting list that was closed in 2011 and people had to pay £5 to stay on it for the privilege. That was 5 years ago, have we really attracted no more fans in the last 5 years. The premier league is booming and has been for years. By most metrics of popularity, i.e. how much money we make etc we are in the top 10 clubs in the world which suggests that we have lots of fans. Arguably we are the most popular premier league team in the UK (Google it) and all this despite our lean years and relative lack of success. All other clubs in the prem. league are well over 90% of capacity week in week out. Yes, 28,000 people might not want a season ticket.  But if the season ticket list was re-opened (and why not with inflation you could charge £10 now) we could see if we have or have not new fans who want to come - what is their to lose in doing so (we might end up with 36,000 on it with only half that would really buy one but so what) You close it and you dont know who wants one so you might as well have it open and brag about how big your waiting list is. Even if the real amount from the list from 5 years ago is half, that's still 14,000 on top of the 45 who ho now, so 59,000. You telling me you couldnt sell more via Thomas Cook etc. just dont believe it and then there are the pesky locals who might just want to turn up have a few pints in the ground and watch one game in 5 or something. Half of premier league fans support one of the big five clubs http://ec.europa.eu/competition/antitrust/cases/dec_docs/38173/38173_104_7.pdf. Re. transport there is an online paper from a Prof at JMu that says existing infrastructure local to the ground can cope with 68,000. We have a decent enough airport, we have a port, we have two motor way access points within a couple of miles of the club is the transport really that much of a disaster and limiting factor.  We are one of the biggest clubs in the world, in the biggest league most popular league in the world and we are not sure we can fill our stadium... not saying it is cost effective to get 65,000 or whatever in if GA but just saying that I dont believe that we woudnt fill it most of the time. I would even give more over to away fans too...  if we go on about atmosphere (even if they already out sing us).

[Peter McGurk]

All seems a bit negative to me. We had 28,000 on a season ticket waiting list that was closed in 2011 and people had to pay £5 to stay on it for the privilege. That was 5 years ago, have we really attracted no more fans in the last 5 years. The premier league is booming and has been for years. By most metrics of popularity, i.e. how much money we make etc we are in the top 10 clubs in the world which suggests that we have lots of fans. Arguably we are the most popular premier league team in the UK (Google it) and all this despite our lean years and relative lack of success. All other clubs in the prem. league are well over 90% of capacity week in week out. Yes, 28,000 people might not want a season ticket.  But if the season ticket list was re-opened (and why not with inflation you could charge £10 now) we could see if we have or have not new fans who want to come - what is their to lose in doing so (we might end up with 36,000 on it with only half that would really buy one but so what) You close it and you dont know who wants one so you might as well have it open and brag about how big your waiting list is. Even if the real amount from the list from 5 years ago is half, that's still 14,000 on top of the 45 who ho now, so 59,000. You telling me you couldnt sell more via Thomas Cook etc. just dont believe it and then there are the pesky locals who might just want to turn up have a few pints in the ground and watch one game in 5 or something. Half of premier league fans support one of the big five clubs http://ec.europa.eu/competition/antitrust/cases/dec_docs/38173/38173_104_7.pdf. Re. transport there is an online paper from a Prof at JMu that says existing infrastructure local to the ground can cope with 68,000. We have a decent enough airport, we have a port, we have two motor way access points within a couple of miles of the club is the transport really that much of a disaster and limiting factor.  We are one of the biggest clubs in the world, in the biggest league most popular league in the world and we are not sure we can fill our stadium... not saying it is cost effective to get 65,000 or whatever in if GA but just saying that I dont believe that we woudnt fill it most of the time. I would even give more over to away fans too...  if we go on about atmosphere (even if they already out sing us).

There is certainly a case for an expanded ARE and I'm sure infrastructure etc can be sorted. There's not a lot of profit in it but that's not entirely the point.

But the waiting list is a red herring. There are no extra people, not going to the game, just waiting for a season ticket to arrive before they do.

[Macred]

There is certainly a case for an expanded ARE and I'm sure infrastructure etc can be sorted. There's not a lot of profit in it but that's not entirely the point.

But the waiting list is a red herring. There are no extra people, not going to the game, just waiting for a season ticket to arrive before they do.

Surely there must be some? So why cant they just give all those people who go to the game regularly, who dont have a season ticket, who are on the list for a ticket, a season ticket? Then presumably all the season ticket holders who dont go the game... so the great great grandad bulgaria whose ticket has passed from generation to generation...then drop off to be replaced by those who are actually attending? And then the season ticket list is actually those who cant get in?

Do you think then they should re-open the ticket list? And why close it in the first place if it is really a meaningless thing? Wasnt the whole point of closing it and saying pay £5 to stay on it to cleanse to give a more accurate reflection of demand? Im only asking cos I dont know not being facetious - genuinely interested in ideas behind the club's logic.

[Peter McGurk]

Surely there must be some? So why cant they just give all those people who go to the game regularly, who dont have a season ticket, who are on the list for a ticket, a season ticket? Then presumably all the season ticket holders who dont go the game... so the great great grandad bulgaria whose ticket has passed from generation to generation...then drop off to be replaced by those who are actually attending? And then the season ticket list is actually those who cant get in?

Do you think then they should re-open the ticket list? And why close it in the first place if it is really a meaningless thing? Wasnt the whole point of closing it and saying pay £5 to stay on it to cleanse to give a more accurate reflection of demand? Im only asking cos I dont know not being facetious - genuinely interested in ideas behind the club's logic.

So much twisted logic there. Moving the same people around between GA, season ticket and farmed out season ticket doesn't add any numbers.

Worse, adding season tickets stops the occasionals, who give up/ never get the habit/ can't afford a full season ticket.

[clogandbottle]

I always find it odd that people use the quote 'if you build it they will come' as if it's based on anything factual rather than a line spoken by a child in a fantasy movie where a team of baseball playing ghosts come out of a cornfield.

what? you question the validity of that idea?

[Macred]

Yes. A lot of our catchment area is in the Irish Sea and the merpeople require specialised and expensive seating. Also, not having any feet, or indeed legs, themselves, it's hard for them to really appreciate the game.

Haha... yeah those boxes you can see on the main stand thread, glass fronts... nothing in the rooms, no carpet, no seats..... not rooms.... aquariums!!

[Macred]

what? you question the validity of that idea?

Applying my twisted logic... they will come if you dont build it and indeed they apparently do.. all of them! 

[ENSKIED]

I think FSG will see how often we can sell out the new capacity before entering the next phase of expansion.

'If you build it, they will come'

Yeah sure, but let's wait and see how phase 1 goes first.

They'll come not because you've built it but because you're truly competing and winning things. We need to get truly successful.   

[andy07]

I know plenty of fans who do not attend regularly and are not members but if offered a season ticket would buy one.   

[Anfield89]

I know plenty of fans who do not attend regularly and are not members but if offered a season ticket would buy one.

You don't know thousands though do you, plenty being a handful.  Why aren't they members attending games?  Hopefully they don't get the chance to take up a season ticket a way from someone who does.

[Macred]

You don't know thousands though do you, plenty being a handful.  Why aren't they members attending games?  Hopefully they don't get the chance to take up a season ticket a way from someone who does.

Surely this debate would end if we just said all seats that are not corp. or hosp. go to season ticket holders either existing or on the list, any left go to GA. So work down the list, so main stand 4000 new season tickets...  they might get down 8,000 on the list. no 1 do you want a ticket pay now or be off the list, no.2, no 3 and so on until all 4000 gone.

So while you could argue that this would be unfair to GA people the argument is,  and if the hypotheses is right that at least 50% or more (im making up numbers now but that is the argument) of people on the season tickets list go anyway to the game then there can be no argument that such an arrangement would be unfair to the GA (as they are already all going ). The season ticket list would then be a more true (but not complete) reflection of demand but not for people who want to attend the odd game (but they could get tickets presumably through the club season ticket resale scheme - and according what si being said here, there will be plenty of those as most season tickets holders seemingly dont go).

As an aside Liverpool has the 3rd lowest season ticket allocation of premier league clubs (55%), Man Utd have 73%. Norwich had the most had 81% and they also had the highest stadium utilisation rate. You would think having the knowledge that more of your tickets are sold for the whole season would be of financial/commercial benefit?

[Anfield89]

They should have knocked as many as poss off the waiting list there's already plenty GA tickets. Not as financially rewarding for the club though.

[Macred]

They should have knocked as many as poss off the waiting list there's already plenty GA tickets. Not as financially rewarding for the club though.

Ahhh, so the GA tickets cost more per game kind of thing.... kinda like cos you are buying a seat in bulk you get 5% off (season ticket) as opposed to selling that seat for every game to a GA punter. And the once a season GA punter is more likely to go in the club shop etc.  Tis a fine balancing act then isnt it I suppose. They would presumably have some money back though from having the ST money in the bank or available to invest or to clear some of the cost of borrowing by having the income in sooner.

Anyway, too complicated for my head...  hopefully once this new main is up and running and sold out they will march on with making sure the ARE adds up in financial terms pronto and crack on with building it. See where things stand after that. Still think they should open the season ticket list up to new applications as it seems it is a complete useless barometer of demand.