Topic: New Annie road, small to medium expansion plans shelved.

[Welshred]

Speaking as a kopite for the last 26 years, the kop’s legend is built on the noise produced by the passionate supporters and their never say die spirit that helps to produce unbelievable results, not (imho) by the fact it’s a single tier.  If we want more than 60k in Anfield after the Annie’s redone, then the kop has got to be an option for further expansion given you can’t rebuild the KD as houses behind would prevent a larger footprint needed and you can’t build higher.

Add another tier and you reduce the amount of noise you can generate. The noise you get from the Kop is built around it being a single tier stand, you just dont get the same noise from two tiered stands as the roof of one blocks out what's happening in the other.

[RainbowFlick]

Not a fan of expanding the Kop. Still suggest we introduce a clear roof where everyone has to look down on the action. 

[CraigDS]

Not a fan of expanding the Kop. Still suggest we introduce a clear roof where everyone has to look down on the action. 

Personally I think we should purchase the machine from 'Honey, I Shrunk the Kids', and shrink everyone to 1/3rd size as they enter the turnstile. That way Anfield could house well over 160k without even touching the Anny Rd.

[Son of Spion]

Add another tier and you reduce the amount of noise you can generate. The noise you get from the Kop is built around it being a single tier stand, you just dont get the same noise from two tiered stands as the roof of one blocks out what's happening in the other.

For me, the Kop should always be a single tiered stand. It's not a Kop otherwise. What you say about sound is true, and as well as what you have said I'd add that it's really difficult to get coordinated singing going over two or more tiers. Even as it stands now, because singers are spread out over the Kop rather than gathered in the middle like they were on the standing Spion Kop, you often have different sections out if kilter with others.

It's no surprise that Abu Dhabi have a thin sliver of away support spread over three tiers, because of how it hampers coodinated singing. Ideally, you want all your singers together and in the same tier because this is how you get the best out of them. Being spread all over the Kop and ground is bad enough, but break the Kop up into two tiers and it just makes things a whole lot worse.

[kaesarsosei]

Realistically I think the most likely best-case scenario is an ARE redevelopment bringing capacity to 62k, then at some point in the future safe-standing being re-introduced to English football and for it to be implemented in the Kop for perhaps an additional 3k capacity - total 65k. Personally I think that is the absolute sweet-spot in terms of extra capacity, minimal cost/disruption, and hopefully also with the benefit of making the Kop even more formidable. And all with the same tight footprint Anfield currently has.

[Keith Lard]

Personally I think we should purchase the machine from 'Honey, I Shrunk the Kids', and shrink everyone to 1/3rd size as they enter the turnstile. That way Anfield could house well over 160k without even touching the Anny Rd.

That’s a ludicrous and impractical suggestion. Such technology does not exist.

[CraigDS]

That’s a ludicrous and impractical suggestion. Such technology does not exist.

Yes it does. Wayne Szalinski managed to shrink not only his kids, but also himself & his wife, with hilarious (although also slightly worrying) results.

He also managed to use it in reverse to enlarge one of his children, but obviously that would limit capacity further so we don't want to do that. Maybe we could sell the technology to the likes of Man City so they could use it this way to hide some of their empty blue seats though - supplement our income.

[Roughie Scouse]

Realistically I think the most likely best-case scenario is an ARE redevelopment bringing capacity to 62k, then at some point in the future safe-standing being re-introduced to English football and for it to be implemented in the Kop for perhaps an additional 3k capacity - total 65k. Personally I think that is the absolute sweet-spot in terms of extra capacity, minimal cost/disruption, and hopefully also with the benefit of making the Kop even more formidable. And all with the same tight footprint Anfield currently has.

I agree. And footprints etc aside, there just isn’t the infrastructure to cope with higher capacity. I sat in Liverpool til midnight in traffic after Norwich game.

[reddazforever]

The best option, depending on how close the current steps are to safe standing regs (I'm sure Peter said in the past they meet them, but I could be wrong) would be to keep what's currently there, convert it to safe standing when allowed, then see if we can expand the corners and back some more to maybe try to add another 3-4k on.

While I think safe standing will be introduced and I welcome it, I’m not convinced we’ll see any increase in stadium capacity as a result of this. The current tests at Celtic and other lower league clubs are on a 1 for 1 basis ie 1 seat can be converted to 1 standing space so not sure how the introduction of safe standing will increase capacity.  Appreciate the ratio is greater in Germany but think it’ll be a massive job trying to convince the UK decision makers that we should 1) allow safe standing and 2) reduce space per person to increase capacity.  The 2nd point is driven by income not safety so can’t see movement on that aspect personally. 

[CraigDS]

It’s based on it takes less space to stand than it does to sit.

[Keith Lard]

Yes it does. Wayne Szalinski managed to shrink not only his kids, but also himself & his wife, with hilarious (although also slightly worrying) results.

He also managed to use it in reverse to enlarge one of his children, but obviously that would limit capacity further so we don't want to do that. Maybe we could sell the technology to the likes of Man City so they could use it this way to hide some of their empty blue seats though - supplement our income.

You very clever man. It’s obvious you are architect 

[owens_2k]

When they decided to redevelop the Main Stand, phase 2 was the Anfield Road end. I wonder if the aesthetics will change if the capacity is increased for the new submission

[CraigDS]

I'd be surprised if they didn't want something in keeping with it, although I've a feeling they may be looking at the corners too if they want to get to 61/62k, which may mean a different roof support.

[Scouser-Tommy]

Sonofkenny, a few pages back who seems to have some sort of knowledge about it all suggested that the corners are a possibility in the future but would not be considered at this stage.

[CraigDS]

Sonofkenny, a few pages back who seems to have some sort of knowledge about it all suggested that the corners are a possibility in the future but would not be considered at this stage.

So a 16-17k seater stand without the corners... that'll be big!

Would be like 3k bigger than Holte end, 2k+ larger than Stretford End.

[Scouser-Tommy]

Yeah, based on his prediction/figures it would be a 16k+ double tier stand with some hospitality in the middle similar to the new Main Stand.

[Alan_X]

Yeah, based on his prediction/figures it would be a 16k+ double tier stand with some hospitality in the middle similar to the new Main Stand.

If they put in a hospitality tier like the Main Stand I can't see them getting the numbers above 60,000 unless the viewing distances are shite.

[CraigDS]

Agreed. Holte is 3k less with a row of boxes (which aren’t that great revenue wise), so would be a big call for corps plus another 3k on top of that whilst keeping decent viewing distances.

[reddazforever]

Yeah, based on his prediction/figures it would be a 16k+ double tier stand with some hospitality in the middle similar to the new Main Stand.

What’s your source for hospitality in the new stand?  Sonofkenny simply said the stand would be 2 tier and the original redevelopment plans had no corp boxes (to my knowledge) within the design and we’re now looking to add even more seats, so can’t see how we’ll achieve that with the inclusion of hospitality.  Also been said in the past by the club that they recognise the new seats won’t command the same price as the main stand so the design will need to be big but simple to keep costs to a minimum as no hospitality to help repay the investment in the same timeframe as the main stand.

[Scouser-Tommy]

Around 61,000 when done. No hosp boxes. Built same way as the main stand. Some low level hosp at front of upper tier.  Still working on what to do with away fans.

This was the source.

[Nico CARP]

Is there any way to better design the corners of the stadium? I think it could be feasible that each rostrum can be united in a more harmonious way and not be as linear or quadratic.

[reddazforever]

This was the source.

Thanks.  So we’re talking hospitality prices for seats with the best view and likely some sort of meal/drinks within the stand or a behind the scenes lounge rather than boxes which kills overall seat numbers

[meady1981]

Can't believe we're still clinging on to Son of Kennys 7-word posts.

God I just want some sweet, sweet initial renders....

Then a 3-D animation showing the stages of the build..
Girders rhythmically dropping from the sky into position, cladding flying in from off-screen and perfectly wrapping around the steel skeleton like a reversed video of a tornado hitting a building...

Then meaningless figures comparing the weight of the new truss to 100 blue whales, the height of the roof to 1.85 radio city towers. 

Then the money shots.

Day and night views of the new stand, populated equally by black, white and Asian fans, young and old, all dressed in replica kits and waving giant flags in a stand not usually known for waving flags - and during a match no less.

Finished off by mock-ups of the new street food stalls made out of old shipping containers, VW vans converted into mobile coffee and wood fired pizza vendors and a micro-brewery made out of an old Ford Fiesta.

[Son of Spion]

^
Same here.

I'm like an addict awaiting his next fix.

[kavah]

   #263      

[Alan_X]

This was the source.

That's the same as now. There are hospitality seats in the Upper Anny but the catering etc is off-site. The seats are no different to any others, just allocated to hospitality sales.

[rob1966]

What’s your source for hospitality in the new stand?  Sonofkenny simply said the stand would be 2 tier and the original redevelopment plans had no corp boxes (to my knowledge) within the design and we’re now looking to add even more seats, so can’t see how we’ll achieve that with the inclusion of hospitality.  Also been said in the past by the club that they recognise the new seats won’t command the same price as the main stand so the design will need to be big but simple to keep costs to a minimum as no hospitality to help repay the investment in the same timeframe as the main stand.

I saw some plans in 2013 that showed apartments at the back of the Anny, but deffo no boxes

[Alan_X]

I saw some plans in 2013 that showed apartments at the back of the Anny, but deffo no boxes

In my opinion, the apartments were shown because it wasn't financially viable to build the infrastructure for full hospitality in the Anfield Road stand. It looked to me like there was space left over and the apartments were an attempt to make the whole thing viable.

[REDcrazy]

Where does the assumption that hospitality facilities at the Anfield Road End would not be commercially viable come from? A lot of the seats in the current ARE are allocated to hospitality packages that are held in out-of-venue locations such as The Hilton, Crowne Plaza, Aintree Racecourse, etc. There is demand for more hospitality seats, in my opinion, and I'm sure the club would happily host more hospitality ticket holders in the ground as opposed to other locations.

[Stussy]

the club could build a swish LFC museum with hospitality facilities if we were allowed to build next to the stadium.

[Brain Potter]

You don’t need hospitality boxes for hospitality. They’d surely just build some lounges inside the new stand and sell some of the seats as a hospitality packages like they do now but offsite.

[Alan_X]

Where does the assumption that hospitality facilities at the Anfield Road End would not be commercially viable come from? A lot of the seats in the current ARE are allocated to hospitality packages that are held in out-of-venue locations such as The Hilton, Crowne Plaza, Aintree Racecourse, etc. There is demand for more hospitality seats, in my opinion, and I'm sure the club would happily host more hospitality ticket holders in the ground as opposed to other locations.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. As you say there are hospitality seats with offsite catering in the Annie Road and I expect that to be the same with the upgraded stand. My point was that it wouldn't be viable from a construction point of view to create the same level of lounges and physical boxes etc in the Annie Road because the price of hospitality tickets wouldn't support it.

There isn't an unlimited demand for hospitality and the top end is probably maxed out now. Hospitality tickets for boxes and the 1892 lounge are around £1000 a game. The Crowne Plaza and Aintree deals with seats in the Annie Road are around £250-300.

The club did detailed analysis of the mix of ticketing and hospitality when they were looking at expanding the ground and the high level hospitality (boxes and lounges) works best in the center of the Main Stand.

[Macred]

Can't believe we're still clinging on to Son of Kennys 7-word posts.

God I just want some sweet, sweet initial renders....

Then a 3-D animation showing the stages of the build..
Girders rhythmically dropping from the sky into position, cladding flying in from off-screen and perfectly wrapping around the steel skeleton like a reversed video of a tornado hitting a building...

Then meaningless figures comparing the weight of the new truss to 100 blue whales, the height of the roof to 1.85 radio city towers. 

Then the money shots.

Day and night views of the new stand, populated equally by black, white and Asian fans, young and old, all dressed in replica kits and waving giant flags in a stand not usually known for waving flags - and during a match no less.

Finished off by mock-ups of the new street food stalls made out of old shipping containers, VW vans converted into mobile coffee and wood fired pizza vendors and a micro-brewery made out of an old Ford Fiesta.

What about the women? And the BLT brigade?

[rob1966]

Sorry if I wasn't clear. As you say there are hospitality seats with offsite catering in the Annie Road and I expect that to be the same with the upgraded stand. My point was that it wouldn't be viable from a construction point of view to create the same level of lounges and physical boxes etc in the Annie Road because the price of hospitality tickets wouldn't support it.

There isn't an unlimited demand for hospitality and the top end is probably maxed out now. Hospitality tickets for boxes and the 1892 lounge are around £1000 a game. The Crowne Plaza and Aintree deals with seats in the Annie Road are around £250-300.

The club did detailed analysis of the mix of ticketing and hospitality when they were looking at expanding the ground and the high level hospitality (boxes and lounges) works best in the center of the Main Stand.

Mate of mine had two corporate seats in the Kemlyn, cost about £5k each, he moved to the new main when that opened. Not been in the new one yet, but did go in his old ones. The food and the lounge were nice, but the best bit was the spec he had, right at the front of the Upper Centenary, half way line. There is no way he'd pay £10k-£12k a season for his seats if he was in the Anny.

[ScottScott]

We've got tickets in work in the new Main, front row, just towards the Kop at the halfway line and it is the best view of football I have ever had. You can see everything. There's a reason these tickets go for so much. I imagine we're close to hitting the top level of demand for them though

[CraigDS]

We got lucky with our ST in the Upper Kenny, got them when it opened and are 2 rows behind the corps bang on the half way. Can see why people would happily pay a fortune for that view.

[Keith Lard]

We got lucky with our ST in the Upper Kenny, got them when it opened and are 2 rows behind the corps bang on the half way. Can see why people would happily pay a fortune for that view.

I’m jelly! What I would do for a ST seat like that

[Brain Potter]

Would hope they tidy off the corner of the Anfield road and kemlyn lower tiers in the new development. Seats in that corner are crap at the moment. Appreciate due to design of roof supports can’t do anything re corners in upper tiers.

[stoopid yank]

Was wondering what the latest Brexit and government antics will have on the process? Would the club be best served waiting it out, or should they advance asap? What will be the effect on materials, steel, labor etc? Anyone have any insight, or predictions?

[meady1981]

Fucking Brexit.