Author Topic: Survivors: Talk about it, share it, we'll try to help  (Read 208736 times)

Offline Glorious Future

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #40 on: January 8, 2007, 03:22:03 pm »
Thought it was worth adding here that on Saturday, met up with cowlos and his mate from way back (who has the same links), us 3 chunnering on in the Albert having dished out some leaflets (they had their own too -- never thought of that  :) ) and the place was heaving. Not heard the Beatles bein sung in there before..? Anyway, having met at the Arkles, it was great to see them, and on such an appropriate day.

You learn that even when life goes on, people never can and never will forget.

Brilliant to meet these fallas, to chat for a bit about things, and Ill repeat, that if anyone else wants to come along when we have a drink, pre- or post-match, do so. Doesnt matter what game or where.

And since were now officially a large group (of 3!), we'll be getting letterheads and cards soon, as you'd expect.   ;)

See you soon cowlos mate.  :wave
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Offline Swoop

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2007, 01:57:44 pm »
Thought it was worth adding here that on Saturday, met up with cowlos and his mate from way back (who has the same links), us 3 chunnering on in the Albert having dished out some leaflets (they had their own too -- never thought of that  :) ) and the place was heaving. Not heard the Beatles bein sung in there before..? Anyway, having met at the Arkles, it was great to see them, and on such an appropriate day.

You learn that even when life goes on, people never can and never will forget.

Brilliant to meet these fallas, to chat for a bit about things, and Ill repeat, that if anyone else wants to come along when we have a drink, pre- or post-match, do so. Doesnt matter what game or where.

And since were now officially a large group (of 3!), we'll be getting letterheads and cards soon, as you'd expect.   ;)

See you soon cowlos mate.  :wave

Mate, it would be great to meet up with you all, perhaps we should make a start on the 20th.
Its a dogs life for me

Offline Glorious Future

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2007, 03:16:28 pm »
Mate, it would be great to meet up with you all, perhaps we should make a start on the 20th.

At Chelsea? Would be a good idea mate.

Ill PM you my number.  :thumbup
« Last Edit: January 11, 2007, 03:19:29 pm by Glorious Future »
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Offline cowlos

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2007, 07:46:28 pm »
That's right, choose a game us Cockney part timers aren't going to ;). Can't make the game lads. Derby the next time I'll be around.
See you then :wave

Offline Glorious Future

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2007, 10:25:08 am »
That's right, choose a game us Cockney part timers aren't going to ;). Can't make the game lads. Derby the next time I'll be around.
See you then :wave

Derby it is mate.

We'll raise a glass in your absence eh?   :wave
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Online spen71

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #45 on: January 23, 2007, 08:45:15 pm »
I for one have tried to blank the memories since that dreadful day and the nightmares stopped.  What brought it back to me was the Arsenal game, when my 13 year old daughter asked what it was for.  Since then I cannot stop thinking about it and the nightmares have returned.  The drinking alcohol levels have risen and my wife keeps asking what the fuck is going on.  I still cannot talk about it and I have been with her since 1990.

Offline RedMike-86-

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #46 on: January 23, 2007, 09:25:27 pm »
I for one have tried to blank the memories since that dreadful day and the nightmares stopped.  What brought it back to me was the Arsenal game, when my 13 year old daughter asked what it was for.  Since then I cannot stop thinking about it and the nightmares have returned.  The drinking alcohol levels have risen and my wife keeps asking what the fuck is going on.  I still cannot talk about it and I have been with her since 1990.

Check your PM fella.

YNWA.
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Offline andeeeee

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #47 on: January 23, 2007, 09:28:34 pm »
i`m like you pal i think we all go through the same and i was a mess after the arsenal game. i`ve been told by a friend that i`m suffering from survivors guilt .i got onto the pitch and froze.

Offline RedMike-86-

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #48 on: January 23, 2007, 09:32:30 pm »
i`m like you pal i think we all go through the same and i was a mess after the arsenal game. i`ve been told by a friend that i`m suffering from survivors guilt .i got onto the pitch and froze.


Check your PM mate.
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Offline Glorious Future

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2007, 11:30:57 pm »
To all posters - youre being brave, stay at it, meet us if you want to too (Derby game -- Albert, before the game).

If anyone wants my number to help with arrangements, just PM me, no problem at all.

See you Cowlos, Swoop and anyone else at the derby game.

And thanks for those good words Invisible Man.  :wave
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Online spen71

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #50 on: January 24, 2007, 07:05:41 pm »
Check your PM fella.

YNWA.

Cheers for that mate.  Was going to reply but for some reason I am not allowed to send PMs.

Offline RedMike-86-

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #51 on: January 24, 2007, 07:35:07 pm »
Cheers for that mate.  Was going to reply but for some reason I am not allowed to send PMs.

No worries mate. If you have got MSN Messenger, my email addy is mikenicholson1@yahoo.co.uk
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Offline cowlos

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #52 on: January 24, 2007, 08:24:18 pm »
Spen71 and andeeeee, you're not on your own. Spen71 you sound  like a carbon copy of what happened with me 3 years ago. The lid just came off after all the years I thought I had it under control.
All welcome to meet us in the Albert before the Derby. See you there Glofut ;)
I'm on line all night, trying to look like I'm working ;D If either of you are about and want a natter....

Online spen71

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #53 on: January 24, 2007, 09:01:38 pm »
Spen71 and andeeeee, you're not on your own. Spen71 you sound  like a carbon copy of what happened with me 3 years ago. The lid just came off after all the years I thought I had it under control.
All welcome to meet us in the Albert before the Derby. See you there Glofut ;)
I'm on line all night, trying to look like I'm working ;D If either of you are about and want a natter....

Wish I could make it up.  Me and all my wisdom about ten years ago gave my season ticket up.  I was going to uni and had 2 small children, something had to go and it was the football.  I do try and get up occasionally but not managed for the last couple of years since the birth of another child.  Will get a fancard for next season I think.

Edit-Just worked it out it will be 12 years since I gave my season ticket up now.  The kids help me get through each day.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2007, 09:38:57 pm by spen71 »

Offline cowlos

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #54 on: January 24, 2007, 09:10:47 pm »
Wish I could make it up.  Me and all my wisdom about ten years ago gave my season ticket up.  I was going to uni and had 2 small children, something had to go and it was the football.  I do try and get up occasionally but not managed for the last couple of years since the birth of another child.  Will get a fancard for next season I think.
I gave up my seasie straight after 89. Moved down south. It all started to happen for me when I had my first lad. Survivor guilt really kicked in. The flashbacks and nightmares started again.  I ended up on the ale every night and hit rock bottom. The only good thing is I reached a point where I HAD to talk about it.
Can't pretend it's not still there but I've met some good people on here who have the same problems and experiences. PM me mate

Offline Kav

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2007, 10:27:51 am »
Just wanna tell Andeeeee & Spen71 the obvious - that they deffo don't walk alone. The other posters on this thread including myself (and so many others) know how youz feel.

I haven't been able to meet up yet and with my lad playing footy on Sat morn I won't be able to do so before the derby either but I will make the effort soon.

Meantime lads, trust me... you have gotta get some of it out. Youz have got to talk. You cannot keep secrets from those close to you or they will get the wrong end of the stick and things could get even worse.

There are plenty of survivors accounts around this and other sites. See if you can read through any of them and think about being maybe putting your experiences down too. It is tough but it will help in the long-term.

I was a bit fuct up meself after Arsenal. Broken-Hearted and Proud as punch at the same time.
Truth Day goes down as one of Anfield's greatest nights.

We'll always have our down-times but we can deffo get through and live with it.
Walk on...

Offline Glorious Future

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2007, 12:49:54 pm »
Just wanna tell Andeeeee & Spen71 the obvious - that they deffo don't walk alone. The other posters on this thread including myself (and so many others) know how youz feel.

I haven't been able to meet up yet and with my lad playing footy on Sat morn I won't be able to do so before the derby either but I will make the effort soon.

Meantime lads, trust me... you have gotta get some of it out. Youz have got to talk. You cannot keep secrets from those close to you or they will get the wrong end of the stick and things could get even worse.

There are plenty of survivors accounts around this and other sites. See if you can read through any of them and think about being maybe putting your experiences down too. It is tough but it will help in the long-term.

I was a bit fuct up meself after Arsenal. Broken-Hearted and Proud as punch at the same time.
Truth Day goes down as one of Anfield's greatest nights.

We'll always have our down-times but we can deffo get through and live with it.

Definitley agree. Its one scary thought gettin all of that out, or some of it at least, and I only started properly last year around April. I had a massive run in with a couple of people, and I just thought "this has got to stop".

The guilt is what did it for me, I couldnt cope with it all the time, though Id try and just bottle it, but when the time ever came to think about it all, Id lose the plot, not handle anything, and things like work, relationships, family, would all go tits up. Having two girls meself, I have tried to take responsibility for making sure their dad want seen as a loser or a nutter (and its been said enough times), but its been a painful process getting to grips with all this.

Ive been like a scatter gun at times, thinking Im doing the right thing, but Ive found that telling people who know the most has helped -- and made it easier -- much easier -- to talk to loved ones too. Before I talked to people here and at the match, I felt like a total idiot with the thoughts. Nothing worse. As Kav said, it alienates people, who think you have something against them, or you have secrets that are bad -- worse still they feel its tearing you apart and if you arent talking, theres nothing they can do. Problem is talking can be the hardest thing -- people want something they can easily understand and until youve talked with others who understand without so many words, its hard to know how to put it across to people.

Id say to anyone here, anyone who suffers with the guilt and 'intrusive thoughts' as the 'professionals' put it, write it down, put it here, or anywhere where people are there who wont talk shite. You dont want to be patronised, you dont want an arguement, you dont want to argue the facts (we know them anyway), and you dont want to sound like your moping -- youre not, youre just getting it out in words, and that can be the hardest thing, I know.

It doesnt mean we'll be brilliant with it, and we know we'll never forget those who lost their lives -- God Bless Them -- it doesnt mean it'll all 'go away', but it means we might get some peace, and some more confidence in dealing with those who are closest so it doesnt wreck our lives.

Since last year, Ive talked a lot more, and Ive been really happy to meet some fantastic people from here -- when things take a down turn, I think of them and it does feel a bit better. Even more so, Ive felt more confident to make a difference with people who dont know the facts, the Truth Day was something I could never have got involved with or attached to before. It still got me in a state afterwards, especially with all the KM (****) stuff that came after too, but I knew it would this time, and I instead of bottling everything, I talked about it, with me dad, with others.

There are some REALLY good people out there. Ive been lucky to meet some here. Ive heard words that mean a lot to me, and theyve got to parts of me I thought no words could get to, in a very good way.

On a lighter note, though, it'd make me proud to see people join us for a drink -- colwos mate, lookin forward to it, and swoop, and cowtownred I think, hopefully (thats if his agent agrees -- he's gotta have one by now, one of our media heroes now I think ;)). But if anyone cant make it for the derby, or doesnt feel like it, drop us a line and make contact. Better to do something than nothing at all, definitely.

 :thumbup
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Online spen71

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #57 on: January 25, 2007, 02:20:52 pm »
Cheers for that Glorious Future.  The bad thing about me replying to this thread, is that I am starting to remember more and more about the day.  I am starting to think that over the years I have blocked it all with the booze, I have probably lost 3 jobs and recently my licence through this.
 
I am thinking of getting a little book and writing everything down.  Then when I take my wife and kids up to the memorial, it might be easier to explain.

YNWA

Offline Swoop

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #58 on: January 25, 2007, 02:27:43 pm »
Cheers for that Glorious Future.  The bad thing about me replying to this thread, is that I am starting to remember more and more about the day.  I am starting to think that over the years I have blocked it all with the booze, I have probably lost 3 jobs and recently my licence through this.
 
I am thinking of getting a little book and writing everything down.  Then when I take my wife and kids up to the memorial, it might be easier to explain.

YNWA

Mate, if you haven't told them or haven't been able to find the words I think that your onto something with the little book. 

Just take yourself off for a couple of hours where no-one will disturb you and try and get it out and down on paper.  I know when I first wrote about it it was on a thread in here and I was in work with tears running down my face, fortunately those around me knew what time of year it was.

Just write it down and give it to your wife, once she reads it you may find it easier to talk about.
Its a dogs life for me

Offline RedMike-86-

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #59 on: January 25, 2007, 04:49:20 pm »

Lads, I can vouch for the healing powers of writing stuff down and if you want to discuss it via such a medium, then I am your man,

I feel desperate sometimes about the fact that I didn’t get a ticket and that others ended up feeling pain that I should have felt. I have “non-survivor guilt” which is a made up thing that I live with – yet still it stings my heart.

YNWA.
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Online spen71

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #60 on: January 25, 2007, 08:36:55 pm »
Strange thing happened today.  I live just north of Brum now and I went for a walk to the bank to pay a bill.  I thought I would pop into a pub I never use on the way back and I got talking to some bloke with a Liverpool hat on.  As we talked about this season, I kept thinking I know you.  It turns out we were on the same coach what went in 1989.  I would not call him a mate but someone who I knew to have a quick pint before the game and a quick chat.  It ended up I was with him for 3 hours and had a good natter.  It seemed like someone up above realised that I needed to talk.  Now I am not religious in the slightest but I just felt it strange.

He still has 2 season ticket for him and his son but some days can just not take himself up to Anfield.  He promised to meet up again and we swapped numbers in case he had a spare in the future, also we are meeting up for a drink in.

Spen

Offline cowlos

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #61 on: January 25, 2007, 09:07:29 pm »
Small world eh? Nice one. Glad it helped. Anything that works for you is good mate. I used to sit there and think, who can I talk to. As time goes on, I realised there's more of us about than you know.

Offline Glorious Future

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #62 on: January 25, 2007, 09:28:47 pm »
Strange thing happened today.  I live just north of Brum now and I went for a walk to the bank to pay a bill.  I thought I would pop into a pub I never use on the way back and I got talking to some bloke with a Liverpool hat on.  As we talked about this season, I kept thinking I know you.  It turns out we were on the same coach what went in 1989.  I would not call him a mate but someone who I knew to have a quick pint before the game and a quick chat.  It ended up I was with him for 3 hours and had a good natter.  It seemed like someone up above realised that I needed to talk.  Now I am not religious in the slightest but I just felt it strange.

He still has 2 season ticket for him and his son but some days can just not take himself up to Anfield.  He promised to meet up again and we swapped numbers in case he had a spare in the future, also we are meeting up for a drink in.

Spen

Brilliant that lad. Keep on it. It'll work out.
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Offline andeeeee

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #63 on: January 25, 2007, 09:35:23 pm »
Small world eh? Nice one. Glad it helped. Anything that works for you is good mate. I used to sit there and think, who can I talk to. As time goes on, I realised there's more of us about than you know.

tell you what fellas , i honestly thought i was on my own .i`ve only starting reading the hillsborough forum a couple of weeks ago and i can see light at the end of this tunnel i`ve been down for the past 17yrs 9 mths . got to say thx to everyone
andy

Offline Glorious Future

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #64 on: January 25, 2007, 09:43:10 pm »
tell you what fellas , i honestly thought i was on my own .i`ve only starting reading the hillsborough forum a couple of weeks ago and i can see light at the end of this tunnel i`ve been down for the past 17yrs 9 mths . got to say thx to everyone
andy

Definitely not on your own Andy lad. Not a chance.
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Offline cowlos

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #65 on: January 25, 2007, 10:08:43 pm »
Second that Glofut. It only seems a while ago that Glofut and myself started putting some of this down. Hope you don't mind me typing for you  Glofut ;)
Keep going Andy.  :wave

Offline Maggie May

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #66 on: January 25, 2007, 10:19:10 pm »
I'm not a survivor either.  But if you want to talk spen and andeee, please don't hesitate to PM me. 
Rather a day as a lion than a lifetime as a sheep.

I can only be nice to one person a day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
I tried being reasonable.  I didn't like it.  Old enough to know better.  Young enough not to give a fuck.

Offline cowlos

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #67 on: January 25, 2007, 10:22:30 pm »
I'm not a survivor either.  But if you want to talk spen and andeee, please don't hesitate to PM me. 
Agree with that. Maggie has helped me out on more than one occasion. Thanks Mags :wave

Offline Glorious Future

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #68 on: January 26, 2007, 01:23:16 am »
Second that Glofut. It only seems a while ago that Glofut and myself started putting some of this down. Hope you don't mind me typing for you  Glofut ;)
Keep going Andy.  :wave

Type away cowlos.  ;)

Agree with that. Maggie has helped me out on more than one occasion. Thanks Mags :wave

And Ill second that.   :thumbup  Mags is a star. x

Write what you need to, when you need to andee, spen, wherever you need to.
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Online spen71

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #69 on: January 26, 2007, 09:50:32 am »
I would not say that I have got survivors guilt.  I would call mine lucky guilt or is it the same?

I was 17 at the time and was very small so it was easy to get in the ground with a bit of ducking and diving.  When me and my mate got in, we started down the tunnel then I got uneasy as it was busy in the two pens the previous year.  I also got injuried at a home Derby a couple of years earlier.  So I said to my mate "fuck this for a game of soldiers" and we darted back and went to the left pen.

That decision, may or may not have saved our lives.  We will never know.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2007, 09:57:12 am by spen71 »

Offline Glorious Future

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #70 on: January 26, 2007, 10:38:11 am »
I would not say that I have got survivors guilt.  I would call mine lucky guilt or is it the same?

I was 17 at the time and was very small so it was easy to get in the ground with a bit of ducking and diving.  When me and my mate got in, we started down the tunnel then I got uneasy as it was busy in the two pens the previous year.  I also got injuried at a home Derby a couple of years earlier.  So I said to my mate "fuck this for a game of soldiers" and we darted back and went to the left pen.

That decision, may or may not have saved our lives.  We will never know.

Perhaps theres different types but whichever way you look at it, people died who shouldnt have and since we were there we feel very very bad about the whole thing. Some have flashbacks to it all, and that messes heads up. Its always going to be hard to live with the fact that some lost their lives, they havent had the chance to live, and by day I realise weve got to make sure we make the most of our lives, now. If talking about it helps keep their memory alive, AND helps us to do credit to our own lives at the same time, its got to be the right thing.

As my dad will often tell me, and others have in a different way, would they want us to screw our own lives up when they would want nothing more than for us to be happy? And make others happy at the same time?
Faith is a passionate intuition.

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Offline Maggie May

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #71 on: January 26, 2007, 10:52:29 am »
I can't see why you believe you need to feel any guilt at all.  You didn't make a cold, rational decision in full possession of the facts at the time.   The basic survival instincts that exist in all of us, in our subconsious, took over, and alarm bells, if you like, rang in your brain and said "Stop". 

You said you were small, you had been injured before.   More than most, you were "programmed" if you like, based on a previous bad experience, not to repeat that. 

No guilt can attach to you, dearest lad.
Rather a day as a lion than a lifetime as a sheep.

I can only be nice to one person a day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
I tried being reasonable.  I didn't like it.  Old enough to know better.  Young enough not to give a fuck.

Offline andeeeee

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #72 on: January 26, 2007, 10:58:53 am »
Perhaps theres different types but whichever way you look at it, people died who shouldnt have and since we were there we feel very very bad about the whole thing. Some have flashbacks to it all, and that messes heads up. Its always going to be hard to live with the fact that some lost their lives, they havent had the chance to live, and by day I realise weve got to make sure we make the most of our lives, now. If talking about it helps keep their memory alive, AND helps us to do credit to our own lives at the same time, its got to be the right thing.

As my dad will often tell me, and others have in a different way, would they want us to screw our own lives up when they would want nothing more than for us to be happy? And make others happy at the same time?
alot of nice things  said there ,glorius future

a little thing i say to myself which helps me `live for the 96`

in the crush outside , i lost touch of all the lads i was with. i got on the pitch from the cages, froze , when the ambulances came onto the pitch made my way round the back of the leppings lane stand and seen one of my mates ( i was focused on him) when i got up to him it was then i looked around and seen bodies all around us. he was trying to help the victims, i flipped and left and walked back to the car.

Offline Maggie May

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #73 on: January 26, 2007, 11:26:00 am »
a little thing i say to myself which helps me `live for the 96`


And say this to yourself too.  I will live for myself.  I am a person of worth.   

in the crush outside , i lost touch of all the lads i was with. i got on the pitch from the cages, froze , when the ambulances came onto the pitch made my way round the back of the leppings lane stand and seen one of my mates ( i was focused on him) when i got up to him it was then i looked around and seen bodies all around us. he was trying to help the victims, i flipped and left and walked back to the car.

You were a young lad.  You were isolated and disorientated.   That's for starters before you got on the pitch.  When you saw what you saw, your brain sent you into deep shock to protect you.  I have no doubt that the awful sights and sounds whirled round your brain until you had no idea what was happening, which was why you focussed on your mate, he being the only link with the familiar.   And when you found him, instead of him being that link, what was around him plunged you into even more horror.    So your body's deep seated feelings of self preservation took over - as of course it is bound to do.

I ask you to consider that you were in deep trauma.   You have nothing of which you need to be ashamed.  And nothing of which you need to feel guilt.
Rather a day as a lion than a lifetime as a sheep.

I can only be nice to one person a day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
I tried being reasonable.  I didn't like it.  Old enough to know better.  Young enough not to give a fuck.

Offline Glorious Future

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #74 on: January 26, 2007, 11:26:55 am »
alot of nice things  said there ,glorius future

a little thing i say to myself which helps me `live for the 96`

in the crush outside , i lost touch of all the lads i was with. i got on the pitch from the cages, froze , when the ambulances came onto the pitch made my way round the back of the leppings lane stand and seen one of my mates ( i was focused on him) when i got up to him it was then i looked around and seen bodies all around us. he was trying to help the victims, i flipped and left and walked back to the car.

Whatever each of us did, how we reated, there wasnt a lot we could really do andy. We tried our best. The people who were lost were in the hands of those who were supposed to know, and even after, when people were taken up to the gym area, those who were responsible for taking care of those people reacted in a far worse way than any of us and didnt respond properly. Its well documented and I saw it with my own eyes.

I saw police and ambulance crew fighting up there, I saw police walk straight past dying kids while their friends and relatives tried to resucitate them, not knowing what to do and asking for help.

I told the police all this when they interviewed me, and they tried to brush it aside. I hate the fact I let them do that to me in my own home - I wish Id done more about all that.

Sad fact is andy, we trusted others to do a job that we had tried to help with, and they failed on their part very very badly. Then they tried to shirk it. Its all bad news mate, bad feeling, but if we ensure the truth comes out, and stands as the truth (because it is) it'll help those lost, their families and those of us whove taken the blame on our shoulders for not stopping it and for not saving them.

Face the fact, we were involved in an establishment cover up and smear campaign. At our age then, and knowing all we did then, we didnt stand a chance. If it ever, God forbid, happened again, Id spend my days making sure every one of them took their blame so we wouldnt have to spend our days feeling guilty of going to a football match.
Faith is a passionate intuition.

http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/

Offline andeeeee

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #75 on: January 26, 2007, 11:38:57 am »
thx again maggie may and glorious future

Offline Maggie May

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #76 on: January 26, 2007, 11:58:09 am »
thx again maggie may and glorious future

Most kind mate.  But I ask you (and others) to consider.   You were, for the most part, young lads.  What I (before I learned better in this context), would have dismissed as "bits of kids".   All you wanted to do was to go to the game.   You were not trained police officers who were (presumably) briefed and ready - from the highest to the lowest - to take on any kind of match trouble.   There is a massive difference in the expected reaction.

And since we are mates now (and I'm sure he won't mind me saying this) - its Mags and Glofut.  :D :-*
Rather a day as a lion than a lifetime as a sheep.

I can only be nice to one person a day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
I tried being reasonable.  I didn't like it.  Old enough to know better.  Young enough not to give a fuck.

Offline Glorious Future

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #77 on: January 26, 2007, 12:17:22 pm »
Most kind mate.  But I ask you (and others) to consider.   You were, for the most part, young lads.  What I (before I learned better in this context), would have dismissed as "bits of kids".   All you wanted to do was to go to the game.   You were not trained police officers who were (presumably) briefed and ready - from the highest to the lowest - to take on any kind of match trouble.   There is a massive difference in the expected reaction.

And since we are mates now (and I'm sure he won't mind me saying this) - its Mags and Glofut.  :D :-*

Thats who I am     :thumbup      :-*
Faith is a passionate intuition.

http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/

Online spen71

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #78 on: January 26, 2007, 01:26:23 pm »
Thanks for your kind words Mags and GloFut.

I just had this helpless feeling standing there unable to help and knowing I knew quite a lot of people in pens 3 and 4, some who never come back.

Offline Swoop

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Re: Ok, here goes... Survivors: Here.
« Reply #79 on: January 26, 2007, 01:41:15 pm »
Thanks for your kind words Mags and GloFut.

I just had this helpless feeling standing there unable to help and knowing I knew quite a lot of people in pens 3 and 4, some who never come back.

You are definitely not alone in feeling that mate, but now you have started to talk about it you need to understand that you wont be able to bottle it back up as you once did, nor should you.

Get it out, try your little book and most importantly talk to people. On here on the phone at the match any way you want but talk to somebody.  You are not alone mate, never will be but you need to deal with it now you've taken the lid off.

Most importantly mate, if you speak to no-one else, you must let your wife know what you going through.
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