Author Topic: Dani Pacheco  (Read 176677 times)

Offline whtwht

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #80 on: August 30, 2012, 10:42:26 am »
The worst part with that is that we have non-performing first team players who get a free ride. They don't have to prove anything, but the kids have to be outstanding, they need to have the right mentality and then maybe, maybe... We should at least expect the first team players to show that mentality too. I'd much rather have the kind of energy we saw from Sterling vs City over the alibi performances we regularly get from for example Downing and Cole. I bet Pacheco wouldn't be worse than them. We have everything to gain and very little to lose if we give him a try.


Very well said . Unfortunately Downing and Cole are on Big wages and are 'prem proven'  ( British helps too) . You just get the nagging feeling if  Pacheco and Suso were used we would be less predictable going forward and wouldnt be worse off.
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Offline Blarf

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #81 on: August 30, 2012, 10:45:48 am »
The worst part with that is that we have non-performing first team players who get a free ride. They don't have to prove anything, but the kids have to be outstanding, they need to have the right mentality and then maybe, maybe... We should at least expect the first team players to show that mentality too. I'd much rather have the kind of energy we saw from Sterling vs City over the alibi performances we regularly get from for example Downing and Cole. I bet Pacheco wouldn't be worse than them. We have everything to gain and very little to lose if we give him a try.


Exactly.

Offline ziggyy

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #82 on: August 30, 2012, 10:46:50 am »
What happened? Is the club finally releasing the poor fellow?

Offline Jason_King

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #83 on: August 30, 2012, 10:48:29 am »
I havent seen a lot of Dani over the years, but most on RAWK have raved about him for years.

I will be honest in that I would rather see him ahead of Cole and Downing or at least given chance to sink or swim, which he doesnt appear to have had.

Shame really as most people felt he was one of the better talents in the youngsters.

His tweet sounds like he is half expecting to go, I would loan him out to a team where he is likely to play most weeks so we could have a good look at him
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Offline john_mac

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #84 on: August 30, 2012, 10:51:36 am »
Loved watching the young Pacheco play and his progress through the reserves. Unfortunately I think that the signs were there, even back then, that he may not progress how everybody would wish. The last couple of years, well I don't think that he has loked likely to fulfill his early promise, at least not for us.

The loans have not worked out well and while some will disagree, I don't think that his occassional cameo's have showed anything like the early promise. Its not too late for him and hope he ahs the character to come through and become a really succesful player, wherever that may be, just don't really see it being at Anfield, myself.

I think that there is still something in there about him being Rafa's, and, in fact, the player that Rafa took off Barca and no doubt of he were flying like we hoped, i'd be the first to rub it in some Catalan's grid.

All this, we have ruined this lad's career, wel I'm not having that, he was given a great platform and plenty of support. I don't think that gaff's like this constantly over-egging it do anyone any favours. He wn't be the first RAWK superstar to get nowhere near being a first team regular and he won't be the last. Unfortunatey we aren't the most patient crowd and half teh time we seem only too willing to build players up to knock them down. We came blame every Tom, Dick and Harry over Insua, and I do think that there is far more to that particular case, but we did nothing to support him when things got sticky, in fact we did the opposite and turned on him.

Don't know if dani will be about come the weekend and good luck to him wherever he is, just feel that something else is likely the best thing for his progression, if we regret that at some stage in the future, well it happens, remember Dave Watson?
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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #85 on: August 30, 2012, 11:07:22 am »
The worst part with that is that we have non-performing first team players who get a free ride. They don't have to prove anything, but the kids have to be outstanding, they need to have the right mentality and then maybe, maybe... We should at least expect the first team players to show that mentality too. I'd much rather have the kind of energy we saw from Sterling vs City over the alibi performances we regularly get from for example Downing and Cole. I bet Pacheco wouldn't be worse than them. We have everything to gain and very little to lose if we give him a try.

Hopefully now this will start to change under Rodgers. He's made encouraging noises since West Brom.

I don't know what the deal is with Pacheco. Did okay in pre-season and then was just discarded after America. Obviously got no future here, but he's suffered strange treatment now from the last few managers.
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Offline flying red

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #86 on: August 30, 2012, 11:09:14 am »
If you compare what Pacheco has actually done when he's been in the first team with Henderson, theres' not much difference in their contribution. Everyone at the club has been on about Henderson's ability and potential, but he's still played a very safe and timid game. Pacheco has show he has a bit of flair but needs time on the pitch to get up to speed at the top level.

The big difference is that Henderson is over 6 feet, and runs around non-stop for 90 minutes. Oh and we paid £16m for him.

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #87 on: August 30, 2012, 11:15:34 am »
That's a fair post john mac. I can't really argue with that. I suppose the only thing to say is that some of the first-team players ahead of Pacheco seemed to be able to survive long periods of mediocrity or even shitness without being sidelined. I remember Dave Watson of course. But at least Dave had the consolation of knowing that he was being kept out by Thompson, Hansen and Lawrenson.

Going even further back I remember the big expectations surrounding John McLaughlin. Pre-internet days they might have been but nonetheless the word got out that here was a supernaturally gifted inside forward. It was just a matter of time. He got his chance - in truth more chances than Pacheco ever got - but after two or three months it was obvious he couldn't quite cut it at the top. Then Keegan and Cormack came and it was curtains. I don't remember what happened after he left Anfield but it wasn't much. I hope Pacheco eventually gets more joy than John Macca ever did.   
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Offline Jason_King

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #88 on: August 30, 2012, 11:23:53 am »
John Welsh and Richie Partridge were a couple more that everyone was expecting(and asking) to be given a chance and they never went on to amount to much.

If Dani does succeed I imagine it will be abroad
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Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #89 on: August 30, 2012, 11:31:55 am »
He hasn't left yet has he?

Offline -Daws-

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #90 on: August 30, 2012, 11:45:06 am »
Wish LFC would 'ruin my career' by paying me £7k per week to go and train with some of the best coaches and footballers in Europe.

I always liked Dani, but it doesn't look like he has a future here. I imagine had he played more and we hadn't had so much cufuffle with managers, loans, owners etc etc he may be a better player than he currently is, but that's just the way the cookie crumbles I'm afraid.

Best of luck to him whatever happens. Hope he stays, personally.
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Offline mensor

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #91 on: August 30, 2012, 11:49:03 am »
Does Dani have a squad number, according to the official site he is the only 'first-teamer' who hasn't been assigned one.  :(

Offline joezydudek

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #92 on: August 30, 2012, 12:20:07 pm »
If you compare what Pacheco has actually done when he's been in the first team with Henderson, theres' not much difference in their contribution. Everyone at the club has been on about Henderson's ability and potential, but he's still played a very safe and timid game. Pacheco has show he has a bit of flair but needs time on the pitch to get up to speed at the top level.

The big difference is that Henderson is over 6 feet, and runs around non-stop for 90 minutes. Oh and we paid £16m for him.

I really don't see how you can compare the two players. They play in completely different positions and there's probably numerous reasons why Henderson has been given more opportunities than Pacheco, most of them perfectly valid.
Was really hoping Dani would make it, but john-mac's post is spot-on IMO.

Offline redoneusa

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #93 on: August 30, 2012, 12:32:11 pm »
We haven't used the youth talent we have had at this club well for years. I think Sterling gives you an idea what you can achieve when you take a punt on youth.

I wouldn't go as far as saying we kill careers but we seldom give a lad a run in the team. Sometimes it just makes you scratch your head. Especially if Danni leaves and Joe Cole is still around.
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Offline kcbworth

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #94 on: August 30, 2012, 01:02:49 pm »
Very disappointed for him. Despite everything, has always appeared to have a great love for the club... that's one thing Rafa really instilled in his players seemingly.

I suspect if Rafa had stayed, Dani would be a first team regular by now, but he's probably been the big loser (in terms of young players trying to break through) from all of the managerial instability.

It's probably going to be tougher for him now if he has to re-establish himself elsewhere, but in my mind there is no question that he's good enough.

Wish you the best Dani, wherever you end up (and would love that to be with us)

Offline U13

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #95 on: August 30, 2012, 02:29:55 pm »
I really don't see how you can compare the two players. They play in completely different positions and there's probably numerous reasons why Henderson has been given more opportunities than Pacheco, most of them perfectly valid.
Was really hoping Dani would make it, but john-mac's post is spot-on IMO.

Comparing the players like for like no, but comparing how they've been handled yes.

For me the main reason Henderson has played as many games as he has is his transfer fee, he was starting week in week out when he wasn't in form and his understudy Maxi looked the better option. Had he come through the youth ranks and performed the same I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have got the vote of confidence he did.

Rodgers has come in and said everyone has a clean slate and Pacheco performed well in preseason so for me he's done well with the opportunities he was given. Against WBA when I saw Joe Cole coming on the first thing that came into my head was 'why?' followed by I'd much rather Pacheco was in his place.

He's stagnated in his development and I believe the way he's been handled by this club has been a large contributing factor. I think he's got the ability and more importantly the attitude to be a good player so hopefully he gets a move or some minutes here to start to realise his potential.

Offline aggerdid

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #96 on: August 30, 2012, 02:49:00 pm »
I think that's a bit over dramatic mate. He came over here as a young lad and we've given him a good football education and the experience of living in a different country. Ok, it hasn't worked out, but he's 21 years old.

Hopefully he'll take the positive aspects of what he's learned here to another club where he'll get some games and kick on to fulfill the potential he's always shown.

Good luck to him.
yeah i agree we've given him his footballing education but cast your mind back to 2009 or 2010. He played for spain under 19's in a euro or world cup and he looked absolutely quality. Every manager in europe must have been thinking god i wish we had him and we had him. He was voted one of the tournaments best players and thats the last we seen of him basically. The politics and managerial changes over the years have stunted his growth as a player and i hope he gets himself back on track and discover his potential
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Offline sattapaartridge

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #97 on: August 30, 2012, 04:12:59 pm »
I thought he was very good in america, he showed determination and penetration down the left hand side.

Since the return of the rest of the guys, he's been knocked down the pecking order. I dont think he's finished as a top flight player, but he does need a decent footballing team to go to.

It's just unfortunate that players like Joe Cole still exist at the club, Pacheco should be in his position.

....And Sterling seems to have the attributes we need in wide players.
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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #98 on: August 30, 2012, 04:28:52 pm »
Unlucky for Pacheco wish him the best of luck in his career, Suso will join him next, maybe we should just stick to signing talented British kids.

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #99 on: August 30, 2012, 04:29:17 pm »
Pacheco tweeted this: "So, Thursday the 30th. Good night from the UK. There might be little time left."

Be ready to say to him good bye...

YNWA Dani.
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Offline gamble

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #100 on: August 30, 2012, 04:35:46 pm »
He really needs to be playing regular football now, best he moves because he will never get his chance here. Football is a young man's game nowadays.

Offline mysterio_86

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #101 on: August 30, 2012, 04:36:42 pm »
I believe he might start tonight - just a guess - no inner information from club :D
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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #102 on: August 30, 2012, 04:38:05 pm »
I believe he might start tonight - just a guess - no inner information from club :D
i hope he does, will be a nice send off (if he is off)

Offline mjjason

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #103 on: August 30, 2012, 04:39:07 pm »
I believe he has played under 6 or 7 different coaches and none felt he was a starter for their team.  That includes lfc and other clubs.  Maybe he just does not have it whatever that it is.

Offline Blarf

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #104 on: August 30, 2012, 04:42:04 pm »
I suspect if Rafa had stayed, Dani would be a first team regular by now, but he's probably been the big loser (in terms of young players trying to break through) from all of the managerial instability.

This is probably true. What baffles me is that we gave him a number 12 shirt when he signed his last contract extension. That usually means that you are very much in first team but in this case it didn't mean that at all. It was that Northampton game and that was it. Shame really...

Young players leave all the time in order to play some first team football so if Dani goes then he goes. What bothers me though is that his situation is fine example of things that have been (and still are) wrong with Liverpool. For example we only use loan market when we want to get rid of unwanted player. We have to use that market much better and send players to the right clubs at the right time so we can benefit from that later. Also it seems that certain youngsters don't get their chances in the first team even if more senior players in their positions are underperforming. Seems like senior players keep their places for the wrong reasons (salary, experience, nationality(??)) and I really hope this isn't the case with Rodgers. At least early signs are promising...

Now that Yesil is coming I can't see Pacheco staying so all the best in the future Dani.

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #105 on: August 30, 2012, 04:52:45 pm »
Anyone else reckon he could turn out to be our 'Borini'? Fans constantly raving about young lad in the reserves, how he deserves a chance in the first team. It never comes. He then goes on to become a big player for a foreign club and eventually moves back to the Premier League for around £10m to one of our rivals.
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Offline kcbworth

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #106 on: August 30, 2012, 05:02:58 pm »
Anyone else reckon he could turn out to be our 'Borini'? Fans constantly raving about young lad in the reserves, how he deserves a chance in the first team. It never comes. He then goes on to become a big player for a foreign club and eventually moves back to the Premier League for around £10m to one of our rivals.

Yes

Offline Garstonite

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #107 on: August 30, 2012, 05:06:43 pm »
I bet Pacheco was that kid in school whose name you were told a hundred times and you still always forgot.

I think it might just be he's one of those nondescript people that managers forget about, whose voice gets lost in the wind and whose face begins to look strange when you look at it beyond fifteen seconds

Offline SkinHimHesShite

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #108 on: August 30, 2012, 05:06:50 pm »
i heard carragher wants him out

Offline Sangria

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #109 on: August 30, 2012, 05:47:31 pm »
I believe he has played under 6 or 7 different coaches and none felt he was a starter for their team.  That includes lfc and other clubs.  Maybe he just does not have it whatever that it is.

It's not Pacheco not being given a chance that hurts. It's who's been given a chance instead of him that hurts. Go back to Purslow's summer and the subsequent summer of 2011, and I'd have signed neither Cole nor Downing. Both of those cost the club vastly more than Pacheco does, and neither of them can put forward a convincing case that they've performed better than Pacheco would have. If we had Messi in the forward pool, I wouldn't give Pacheco a second glance. But we have Cole and Downing.
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Offline scouse29

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #110 on: August 30, 2012, 06:04:42 pm »
It's not Pacheco not being given a chance that hurts. It's who's been given a chance instead of him that hurts. Go back to Purslow's summer and the subsequent summer of 2011, and I'd have signed neither Cole nor Downing. Both of those cost the club vastly more than Pacheco does, and neither of them can put forward a convincing case that they've performed better than Pacheco would have. If we had Messi in the forward pool, I wouldn't give Pacheco a second glance. But we have Cole and Downing.

I agree with the cole and downing scenario but hindsight is a wonderful thing. I never really expected a lot from cole but was pleased at the time that we had signed him, why I don't know? Downing has been a big let down but he should be contributing more.

The thing that sticks out for me is the number of managers that have all failed to either get the best out of him or seen enough to decide he does not fit the bill. The case could be argued that he should e given a run of games in the starting 11 but his atributes in training must surely come into question? Maybe he will make the squad in the coming weeks if he is still here?
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Offline joezydudek

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #111 on: August 30, 2012, 06:15:42 pm »
Comparing the players like for like no, but comparing how they've been handled yes.

For me the main reason Henderson has played as many games as he has is his transfer fee, he was starting week in week out when he wasn't in form and his understudy Maxi looked the better option. Had he come through the youth ranks and performed the same I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have got the vote of confidence he did.

Rodgers has come in and said everyone has a clean slate and Pacheco performed well in preseason so for me he's done well with the opportunities he was given. Against WBA when I saw Joe Cole coming on the first thing that came into my head was 'why?' followed by I'd much rather Pacheco was in his place.

He's stagnated in his development and I believe the way he's been handled by this club has been a large contributing factor. I think he's got the ability and more importantly the attitude to be a good player so hopefully he gets a move or some minutes here to start to realise his potential.

Fair points to an extent, we could perhaps have done more for Pacheco in past years. But Henderson was bought for such a big fee in the first place because he showed so much potential, Pacheco has perhaps been unlucky, but he's never shown anything like as much potential at senior level, including last season when he was loaned out and struggled.
Rodgers has shown that he's willing to pick players who have impressed him rather than basing selection on someone's price tag, which suggests that, despite some reasonably good pre-season displays, he simply isn't as impressive as some other youngsters at the club. He may well go on to bigger and better things but no one has a vendetta against him, he just doesn't seem to have shown enough.

Offline kenworthy

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #112 on: August 30, 2012, 06:26:14 pm »
With Rodgers' proclivity for youth, one has to wonder about the sort of preseason the lad has had and his first team acumen.
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Offline Sangria

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #113 on: August 30, 2012, 06:52:28 pm »
I agree with the cole and downing scenario but hindsight is a wonderful thing. I never really expected a lot from cole but was pleased at the time that we had signed him, why I don't know? Downing has been a big let down but he should be contributing more.

The thing that sticks out for me is the number of managers that have all failed to either get the best out of him or seen enough to decide he does not fit the bill. The case could be argued that he should e given a run of games in the starting 11 but his atributes in training must surely come into question? Maybe he will make the squad in the coming weeks if he is still here?

It may have been hindsight for you, but not for me. I didn't like the signing of Cole in 2010 because it blocked the progression of Pacheco, and for all the fanfare, he had as abysmal a fitness record as the much-abused Aquilani did (I did a direct head to head comparison of the two, and Cole was hardly any better for appearances over 5 years). I set out a transfer policy at the time which I felt we should have pursued, which was to keep the stars, cut the veterans, and rely on self-produced youngsters for depth. Forward to last summer, and I had no idea what D&C saw in Downing that made him worth 20m, when I as absolutely screaming for reinforcement in holding CM. Sure, he played LW, but an English forward at that age and at that price? I could have given a profile for the kind of LW we should have been looking at, and Downing was definitely not it. Pacheco would have better fitted it, and for the low cost, it wouldn't have been much of a risk to have him as genuine competition.

Note: when I speak from hindsight, I make it clear that I'm speaking from hindsight, and I don't criticise from that perspective. If I didn't see it at the time, I don't think any worse of anyone else for not seeing it at the time either. If I say I thought something was a bad idea, I thought it at the time, not with the benefit of hindsight.
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Offline scouse29

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #114 on: August 30, 2012, 07:30:06 pm »
It may have been hindsight for you, but not for me. I didn't like the signing of Cole in 2010 because it blocked the progression of Pacheco, and for all the fanfare, he had as abysmal a fitness record as the much-abused Aquilani did (I did a direct head to head comparison of the two, and Cole was hardly any better for appearances over 5 years). I set out a transfer policy at the time which I felt we should have pursued, which was to keep the stars, cut the veterans, and rely on self-produced youngsters for depth. Forward to last summer, and I had no idea what D&C saw in Downing that made him worth 20m, when I as absolutely screaming for reinforcement in holding CM. Sure, he played LW, but an English forward at that age and at that price? I could have given a profile for the kind of LW we should have been looking at, and Downing was definitely not it. Pacheco would have better fitted it, and for the low cost, it wouldn't have been much of a risk to have him as genuine competition.

Note: when I speak from hindsight, I make it clear that I'm speaking from hindsight, and I don't criticise from that perspective. If I didn't see it at the time, I don't think any worse of anyone else for not seeing it at the time either. If I say I thought something was a bad idea, I thought it at the time, not with the benefit of hindsight.

You make some valid points and I embrace the opportunity BR has given to sterling and Morgan tonight. We have been very cautious over the last few years with dropping the kids into the squad and the into the staring 11. Maybe dani is one that will escape the nest.

Just also noticed the subs bench and we have 4 defenders!  There must be reasons as to why he can't make the bench?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 07:33:59 pm by scouse29 »
The Liverpool way!!!

Offline Fordy

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #115 on: August 30, 2012, 07:31:30 pm »
Feel for the lad as I thought he did good in pre season.

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #116 on: August 30, 2012, 08:58:44 pm »
At the game today sitting watching. Very very strange situation

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #117 on: August 30, 2012, 09:01:34 pm »
Morgan isn't better than him currently, the whole situation is baffling.

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #118 on: August 30, 2012, 09:14:38 pm »
Strange how he's been handled. Either give him a solid chance or sell him already.

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #119 on: August 30, 2012, 09:23:07 pm »
Morgan isn't better than him currently, the whole situation is baffling.

I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories but some might say it's because nationality etc.