Topic: Sexual Abuser Donald Trump Indicted

[TSC]

Statements like this make me uncomfortable.



He’s not like Hiter and it’s not comparable. It’s incredibly disingenuous, at best.   

He shares same traits; narcissistic, psychotic.  His attempted coup failed thankfully.

[Red Beret]

Who is responding to who in this conversation please?

It always confuses me when quotes are taken from Twitter as they're usually back to front but sometimes it's hard to tell.

And who is Seth Rogen?

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk

Seth Rogen is a decently famous hollywood actor.



A dead ringer to play Jurgen Klopp in the Liverpool movie now he's lost a bit of weight.

Ted Cruz got bogged down in a twitter spat with him, which is never a good idea because Seth doesn't have to worry about his sponsors or voters and so can fight dirty.

[afc tukrish]

I have to disagree with you mate.  The only reason Trump is not like Hitler (or Mussolini for that matter) is that the system was able to resist the pressure he piled on it in an attempt to break it. It is not for a lack of intent.

As for the deaths you can lay at Trump's feet?  Well, he politicised mask use; he refused to wear one, believing it to be "weak".  He refused to set an example that his own followers would take note of.  Then, Republican governors gleefully piled onto their President's bandwagon and actively worked to slow and stall an effective response towards Covid, accusing Democrats of making the issue political.  You have the likes of Florida actively suppressing Covid-death data in an attempt to cover up the magnitude of what's going on, with governors declaring the crisis to be over, even as hospitals are on the verge of collapse. The CDC guidelines  being binned and forcefully rewritten; state set against state; Jared fucking Kushner claiming the medical stockpile is THEIRS.  And they're just the examples I can think of off the top of my head.

It was more than systematic failure.  It was deliberate.

This is the situation, this is the reality, and this is what should make you feel uncomfortable.  You don't like the idea of your political leaders being accused of culpable/negligent homicide.  But there is a difference between a failure - which has indeed occurred on some levels - and premeditated indifference. I don't think you will be able to accuse many senior Democrats of such wilful negligence, even as Republicans claimed Covid would magically disappear as an issue post-election.

Good reply to LSR's post (except for your horrid misspelling of 'politiciszed  ).

Unless you have an agenda to excuse and equivocate on behalf of the Republican Party, it's easy to see that Donald Trump's actions and inactions played a direct role, and still do, in the virus death tolls in the USA.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Good reply to LSR's post (except for your horrid misspelling of 'politiciszed  ).

Unless you have an agenda to excuse and equivocate on behalf of the Republican Party, it's easy to see that Donald Trump's actions and inactions played a direct role, and still do, in the virus death tolls in the USA.

Politicise: UK spelling.

[reddebs]

Seth Rogen is a decently famous hollywood actor.



A dead ringer to play Jurgen Klopp in the Liverpool movie now he's lost a bit of weight.

Ted Cruz got bogged down in a twitter spat with him, which is never a good idea because Seth doesn't have to worry about his sponsors or voters and so can fight dirty.

Thanks.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk

[classycarra]

Statements like this make me uncomfortable.

Trump, for as bad and incompetent as he is/was, is not responsible for 400,000 deaths. The number he can be “blamed” for? No idea, it’s impossible to quantify. There’s been failure at local, state, regional and national levels, Republican AND Democrat. Failure at the human level for people choosing not to socially distance or choosing to not wear masks. Deaths attributed to humans not fully understanding the virus and how it works, especially at the beginning of 2020. It’s a complex, multi-faceted failure, not even factoring in so many deaths that are/were just not preventable.

He’s not like Hiter and it’s not comparable. It’s incredibly disingenuous, at best.   

One thing that can be quantified is how many inquests into dead children (because it's mostly been parents doing this to their kids) there's been, from those following the presidents suggestions to use poisons to ward off COVID.

[afc tukrish]

Politicise: UK spelling.

American political thread...

It was a jest, Jiminy...

[stoa]

The first school is the adult, long game. But, this is the Republican party. So, it is your second 'school' which is the correct one here. This can only encourage the Republican's to impeach Trump. Besides, deep down, they now know how dangerous a game they have been playing. If Trump wins, they lose too.

A lot will be down to the numbers and I would imagine the Republicans do have them and are now calculating what they can do going forward. How many nutters or Trump believers do they actually have and what percentage of their vote would they lose, if they got rid of Trump. Is it less than they would gain from not having Trump and his lunatics? How many people, who would normally not vote or vote Republican, voted Democrat this time, because of Trump?

From an outside point of view and if you see being a policitian as standing up for what you believe, it is clear that they have to get rid of the former President. From a party standpoint and in terms of being competitive in elections, it's much more difficult to answer. The ideal solutions for Republicans would probably be keeping Trump around, but marginalise him in terms of their politics. Won't happen though, because if he's going to be involved he'll want to be in the limelight and at least make it look like he's calling the shots. I could see them playing for time until he either croaks or the various investigations come back to bite him in the arse.

[Redcap]

Statements like this make me uncomfortable.

Trump, for as bad and incompetent as he is/was, is not responsible for 400,000 deaths. The number he can be “blamed” for? No idea, it’s impossible to quantify. There’s been failure at local, state, regional and national levels, Republican AND Democrat. Failure at the human level for people choosing not to socially distance or choosing to not wear masks. Deaths attributed to humans not fully understanding the virus and how it works, especially at the beginning of 2020. It’s a complex, multi-faceted failure, not even factoring in so many deaths that are/were just not preventable.

He’s not like Hiter and it’s not comparable. It’s incredibly disingenuous, at best.   

I agree that there's a danger in rhetorical overreach in describing Trump.

But there's also a lot of danger in equivocating, which is what the GOP establishment has done for 4 years. The danger is that if you fail to call out an unmitigated disaster of management at the federal level for what it is, that's the standard of government you accept going forward. As Red Berry said, there are loads of things Trump and his administration did to undermine the management of the pandemic, and making excuses for it is frankly inexcusable.

And it's actually quite an ugly thing to quibble over exactly how many deaths Trump was responsible for. It reminds me of a conversation I had with a Chinese friend a whiles back. We were arguing over the death toll at the Tiananmen Square massacre. He had insisted that the number was in the hundreds rather than the thousands. I found this line of thinking to be problematic to say the least. The line of acceptable behaviour for the slaughter of peaceful protestors isn't 'hundreds rather than thousands', and likewise, it's dumb to argue that maybe the number of COVID deaths Trump directly contributed towards was maybe less than 400,000. The fact that he knowingly undertook actions - whether we're talking about discouraging mask wearing, not supporting states with necessary equipment, lying about the severity of the disease, encouraging states to open up, having rallies - which helped the virus spread, means there are many, many deaths on his hands.

[rafathegaffa83]

Huckabee Sanders said to be announcing candidacy to run as Governor of Arkansas

[Redcap]

Huckabee Sanders said to be announcing candidacy to run as Governor of Arkansas

She'll be quite a formidable opponent in a few years. Daughter of popular politician. One of the faces of the Trump administration that got out before she was tarred with any of the late stage ugliness. Mind you the country might have collapsed by the time she's primed for a run, probably not until 2028? If the Trumpian right hasn't self-cannibalised by then it'd be a huge worry.

[KillieRed]

She'll be quite a formidable opponent in a few years. Daughter of popular politician. One of the faces of the Trump administration that got out before she was tarred with any of the late stage ugliness. Mind you the country might have collapsed by the time she's primed for a run, probably not until 2028? If the Trumpian right hasn't self-cannibalised by then it'd be a huge worry.

She seems as dumb as a rock, but dresses in hypocritical ‘faith’ and is willing to lie in the face of obvious truth. She’s bound to win.

[Jiminy Cricket]

American political thread...

It was a jest, Jiminy...

Ah. I guess I was a bit slow on the uptake.

[Jiminy Cricket]

From an outside point of view and if you see being a policitian as standing up for what you believe, it is clear that they have to get rid of the former President. From a party standpoint and in terms of being competitive in elections, it's much more difficult to answer. The ideal solutions for Republicans would probably be keeping Trump around, but marginalise him in terms of their politics. Won't happen though, because if he's going to be involved he'll want to be in the limelight and at least make it look like he's calling the shots. I could see them playing for time until he either croaks or the various investigations come back to bite him in the arse.

The problem for Republicans if they hold onto Trump is that his criminality will start to come into sharp focus quite soon. And the, it will be a never-ending drip, drip of new charges (and, hopefully, convictions).

I can see the likes of McCarthy hanging onto Trump (he has already changed his tune). But, it seems, McConnell is (belatedly) better aware of the dangers of this approach.

[Jiminy Cricket]

I agree that there's a danger in rhetorical overreach in describing Trump.

But there's also a lot of danger in equivocating, which is what the GOP establishment has done for 4 years. The danger is that if you fail to call out an unmitigated disaster of management at the federal level for what it is, that's the standard of government you accept going forward. As Red Berry said, there are loads of things Trump and his administration did to undermine the management of the pandemic, and making excuses for it is frankly inexcusable.

And it's actually quite an ugly thing to quibble over exactly how many deaths Trump was responsible for. It reminds me of a conversation I had with a Chinese friend a whiles back. We were arguing over the death toll at the Tiananmen Square massacre. He had insisted that the number was in the hundreds rather than the thousands. I found this line of thinking to be problematic to say the least. The line of acceptable behaviour for the slaughter of peaceful protestors isn't 'hundreds rather than thousands', and likewise, it's dumb to argue that maybe the number of COVID deaths Trump directly contributed towards was maybe less than 400,000. The fact that he knowingly undertook actions - whether we're talking about discouraging mask wearing, not supporting states with necessary equipment, lying about the severity of the disease, encouraging states to open up, having rallies - which helped the virus spread, means there are many, many deaths on his hands.

This.

Trump is not Hitler, but we are talking about his general mindset, not how (un)successful he was in his attempted coup. What would Trump do if there were no restraints upon him?

And, yes, I feel similar to you about quibbling over the precise number of deaths for which he might be is responsible. The fact is that Trump did not care what happened to the 400,000 people who died of Covid. They all were expendable. The fact that some of them (no way to know the exact or even approximate number) would have died anyway is to entirely miss the point.

[rafathegaffa83]

Dominion Voting Systems suing Guiliani for $1.3 billion
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/01/25/politics/dominion-lawsuit-giuliani/index.html?

[Skeeve]

American political thread...

It was a jest, Jiminy...

On a UK forum though or will you be going back and translating any posts in the Bundesliga thread etc into the appropriate languages? 

[Red Beret]

The problem for Republicans if they hold onto Trump is that his criminality will start to come into sharp focus quite soon. And the, it will be a never-ending drip, drip of new charges (and, hopefully, convictions).

I can see the likes of McCarthy hanging onto Trump (he has already changed his tune). But, it seems, McConnell is (belatedly) better aware of the dangers of this approach.

Articles of impeachment are likely to be transmitted to the senate today, but it looks like the trial could be held back until February 9th.  This, after a request by Republicans.

Now, some want to strike whilst the iron is hot - justice delayed is justice denied as they say.  Others suspect what you have outlined - a steady drip drip of ever more damaging allegations of Trump trying to warp the system to gift him victory.  The latest revelations about replacing the acting AG with someone prepared to lie to Georgia about an election fraud investigation being underway, and that they should void their election results as a consequence, show there was no depth to what Trump was prepared to try and do.

This is a guy who has never truly tasted defeat in his life.   A man who has had everything handed to him on a platter.  Never had to work for it, never had to strive for it.  Just popped a few lies here or there and bumbled on to the next thing. By holding back the trial a little bit longer, if gives Republicans enough time to put some distance between them and him.

[Qston]

Articles of impeachment are likely to be transmitted to the senate today, but it looks like the trial could be held back until February 9th.  This, after a request by Republicans.

Now, some want to strike whilst the iron is hot - justice delayed is justice denied as they say.  Others suspect what you have outlined - a steady drip drip of ever more damaging allegations of Trump trying to warp the system to gift him victory.  The latest revelations about replacing the acting AG with someone prepared to lie to Georgia about an election fraud investigation being underway, and that they should void their election results as a consequence, show there was no depth to what Trump was prepared to try and do.

This is a guy who has never truly tasted defeat in his life.   A man who has had everything handed to him on a platter.  Never had to work for it, never had to strive for it.  Just popped a few lies here or there and bumbled on to the next thing. By holding back the trial a little bit longer, if gives Republicans enough time to put some distance between them and him.

I have the same impression. Behind closed doors I suspect that some republican senators will be looking to McConnell for cover. There will be some sane ones who think he should be convicted and not be able to run again. Not only for the good of the country, but for the longer term good of their own party. McConnell is a wily character and is far from daft. There will be good reason why this still relatively short hiatus period has been agreed. I wonder if McConnell is going to use keeping the fillibuster (and not doubt much else) as the bargaining chip for a Trump conviction ?

[afc tukrish]

On a UK forum though or will you be going back and translating any posts in the Bundesliga thread etc into the appropriate languages? 

I only ever post about American players in the Bundesliga thread...

Well, and Klinsman, for obvious reasons...

[Red Beret]

I have the same impression. Behind closed doors I suspect that some republican senators will be looking to McConnell for cover. There will be some sane ones who think he should be convicted and not be able to run again. Not only for the good of the country, but for the longer term good of their own party. McConnell is a wily character and is far from daft. There will be good reason why this still relatively short hiatus period has been agreed. I wonder if McConnell is going to use keeping the fillibuster (and not doubt much else) as the bargaining chip for a Trump conviction ?

See, I'm not too sure about that.  Removing Trump as an obstacle in 2024 actually suits the Republicans more than the Democrats.  The latter want to hold Trump to account for betraying his oath of office, whilst for the former it's a matter of political expediency.

Schumer would be a fool to give up the long term benefit of cancelling the filibuster in exchange for a Trump conviction, as allowing Trump to walk free hurts the Republicans.  Firstly, because the people want somebody held to account, and second, Trump running in 2024 fucks the Republican Party good and proper.

Plus, escaping an impeachment conviction doesn't let Trump off the hook from a multitude of lawsuits and court cases heading his way - and each and every time he's pulled before the court, Republicans will be asked what they knew about it when he was in office enjoying their blank check support.

I don't think that's a hill McConnell would want to die on. It only makes sense if Schumer is as dumb as McConnell thinks he is to fall for it.

[Lone Star Red]

I have to disagree with you mate.  The only reason Trump is not like Hitler (or Mussolini for that matter) is that the system was able to resist the pressure he piled on it in an attempt to break it. It is not for a lack of intent.

As for the deaths you can lay at Trump's feet?  Well, he politicised mask use; he refused to wear one, believing it to be "weak".  He refused to set an example that his own followers would take note of.  Then, Republican governors gleefully piled onto their President's bandwagon and actively worked to slow and stall an effective response towards Covid, accusing Democrats of making the issue political.  You have the likes of Florida actively suppressing Covid-death data in an attempt to cover up the magnitude of what's going on, with governors declaring the crisis to be over, even as hospitals are on the verge of collapse. The CDC guidelines  being binned and forcefully rewritten; state set against state; Jared fucking Kushner claiming the medical stockpile is THEIRS.  And they're just the examples I can think of off the top of my head.

It was more than systematic failure.  It was deliberate.

This is the situation, this is the reality, and this is what should make you feel uncomfortable.  You don't like the idea of your political leaders being accused of culpable/negligent homicide.  But there is a difference between a failure - which has indeed occurred on some levels - and premeditated indifference. I don't think you will be able to accuse many senior Democrats of such wilful negligence, even as Republicans claimed Covid would magically disappear as an issue post-election.

Sorry mate, just not buying that. And your assertion that Trump or any US political leader being accused of negligent homicide makes me uncomfortable and that's the real issue here, is very far off-base. Far from the first time a US leader has been accused of that, it's nothing new. Not sure why you think it would make me uncomfortable, especially when talking about someone as loathsome as Trump.

Far be it for me to make excuses for Trump as his many failures, ineptitude and overall lack of empathy and leadership during the Covid crisis has been on display for all to see (or those that choose to see).

I just took issue with two things, a) anyone that compares his actions or inactions to that of Hitler. It's simultaneously an insult to what happened in the 30's and 40's in Europe and a gross dramatization of Trump's 4 years in office and a massive over-compensation of the man's critical thinking and planning abilities and b) that he's guilty of negligent homicide 400,000 times over. My point was not to quibble over numbers, it was just that your initial assertion is patently false. I'm not saying he's not guilty of negligent homicide in some form or fashion, just urging you to use caution when throwing around blanket assertions like that for a complicated and intricate issue at hand. 

Apologies for derailing the thread a bit. With the Trump thread closed at the moment, I guess it's only natural for some of this stuff to bleed over into this thread.

[Skeeve]

I only ever post about American players in the Bundesliga thread...

Well, and Klinsman, for obvious reasons...

Not the point, your premise is the nationality of the overall thread's subject takes precedence, so get to that other topic and get translating your posts you slacker.

[telekon]

Dominion Voting Systems suing Guiliani for $1.3 billion
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/01/25/politics/dominion-lawsuit-giuliani/index.html?

I love that Guiliani's response is: "As such, we will investigate a countersuit against them for violating these constitutional rights."

Don't think defamation is a constitutional right you big muppet.

[Hazell]

I see Biden's signed an Executive Order to reverse a ban on transgender people serving in the military.

I'm probably being thick but how did this ban ever get through in the first place? Surely it's discrimination? I know the Supreme Court initially rejected Trump's ban on Muslims entering the US until they reworked it so legally it was a ban people coming in from Muslim majority countries. Was this something similar in that they worded so it legally could get through, despite it still being abhorrent?

[Mimi]

I see Biden's signed an Executive Order to reverse a ban on transgender people serving in the military.

I'm probably being thick but how did this ban ever get through in the first place? Surely it's discrimination? I know the Supreme Court initially rejected Trump's ban on Muslims entering the US until they reworked it so legally it was a ban people coming in from Muslim majority countries. Was this something similar in that they worded so it legally could get through, despite it still being abhorrent?

In a 5:4 decision, the Supreme Court lifted the injunction against the ban that had been put into place by lower level courts. They allowed the ban to remain in place while litigation on the Executive Order proceeded. It looks like litigation on Trump's Executive Order is moot now that Biden has his own Executive Order repealing Trump's Executive Order.

[Hazell]

In a 5:4 decision, the Supreme Court lifted the injunction against the ban that had been put into place by lower level courts. They allowed the ban to remain in place while litigation on the Executive Order proceeded. It looks like litigation on Trump's Executive Order is moot now that Biden has his own Executive Order repealing Trump's Executive Order.

Ah right. Just Googled it and it seems like 5 conservatives in the Supreme Court were the ones who allowed the ban remain in place, no surprise there.

Thanks mate.

[Red Beret]

Sorry mate, just not buying that. And your assertion that Trump or any US political leader being accused of negligent homicide makes me uncomfortable and that's the real issue here, is very far off-base. Far from the first time a US leader has been accused of that, it's nothing new. Not sure why you think it would make me uncomfortable, especially when talking about someone as loathsome as Trump.

To clarify mate: I didn't mean to imply that your leaders being accused of negligent homicide made you uncomfortable; I just meant that I wouldn't blame you if it did - and Trump would be the first American president accused of the mass killing of his OWN people, rather than another country's.

Far be it for me to make excuses for Trump as his many failures, ineptitude and overall lack of empathy and leadership during the Covid crisis has been on display for all to see (or those that choose to see).

I just took issue with two things, a) anyone that compares his actions or inactions to that of Hitler. It's simultaneously an insult to what happened in the 30's and 40's in Europe and a gross dramatization of Trump's 4 years in office and a massive over-compensation of the man's critical thinking and planning abilities and b) that he's guilty of negligent homicide 400,000 times over. My point was not to quibble over numbers, it was just that your initial assertion is patently false. I'm not saying he's not guilty of negligent homicide in some form or fashion, just urging you to use caution when throwing around blanket assertions like that for a complicated and intricate issue at hand. 

Apologies for derailing the thread a bit. With the Trump thread closed at the moment, I guess it's only natural for some of this stuff to bleed over into this thread.

For this, I continue to disagree.  The main differences between Hitler and Trump is that Hitler actually fought in war, and had the balls to personally lead his own attempted coup. As I said earlier, Trump's had everything handed to him on a platter and still manage to screw it up because he was too lazy and incompetent to make a decent job of what he was trying to do.

Where they have something very much in common is thinking that they knew better than their advisors; constantly interfered in the strategic thinking of those around them, and in the end retreated to a delusional world where he was indulged in his fantasies.

It's not an insult to what happened in the 30s or 40s in Europe, nor a gross dramatisation of Trump's term in office.  You offer no evidence to support either of these claims.  My evidence is a simple question: what would Trump have done if he could have got away with it?  Where would the checks and balances been had he won the election, or succeeded in overturning it?

People say we can't draw a conclusion based on a hypothetical.  I say you can, because there is ample evidence of Trump's intent and what he wanted to do.

Joe Scarborough called it: Trump is a fascist.  Hitler was a fascist.  Mussolini was a fascist.   They arose to power in a similar manner; Trump tried to stay in power in a similar way.  Just because he didn't make it to their heights of monstrosity wasn't for a lack of trying.

In any case, I also do not want to derail the thread.  I've stated my opinion so I'll leave it there.

[Red Beret]

I see Biden's signed an Executive Order to reverse a ban on transgender people serving in the military.

I'm probably being thick but how did this ban ever get through in the first place? Surely it's discrimination? I know the Supreme Court initially rejected Trump's ban on Muslims entering the US until they reworked it so legally it was a ban people coming in from Muslim majority countries. Was this something similar in that they worded so it legally could get through, despite it still being abhorrent?

In other news, SCOTUS just threw out the case against Trump over his supposed violations of the emoluments clause.

[afc tukrish]

Not the point, your premise is the nationality of the overall thread's subject takes precedence, so get to that other topic and get translating your posts you slacker.

Tough crowd in RAWK political threads...

[rafathegaffa83]

In other news, SCOTUS just threw out the case against Trump over his supposed violations of the emoluments clause.

They are setting a dangerous precedent here. It's hardly moot just because he is no longer President

[Red Beret]

well on a more positive note, The Lincoln Project have announced they're going after Ted Cruz next.

[Careca9]

They are setting a dangerous precedent here. It's hardly moot just because he is no longer President

I think we are all being very over optimistic about penalties trump may face, federally I don’t think he will be impeached. I just cannot see sufficient republican senators switching over to impeach (how many intend to retire rather than running again, if you add those up plus Romney and 1 or 2 more could you get near 67?). So if he is not impeached and it moves to state investigation what happens then - I would feel much better if he was prosecuted over tax offences rather than corruption/interfering etc, we all believe he is corrupt but it takes more than belief for conviction and I have always had this feeling that there is always a grey area that a judge may allow that his words should not be taken as is,I’m wording that badly but I’m trying to say he has plausible deniability and so even if he was suspected of a state political crime he gets off. Hopefully taxes catch him as they are generally open and shut cases - to this day I still give out to my wife for watching him on US apprentice as that blasted show gave him a false platform as a successful businessman and inflated his image entirely!

[Red Beret]

There is more than one way to punish Trump.  Ideally, he deserves to be in prison.  But what he fears most is exposure, humiliation, poverty, reality.

Let's just see where things lead us.

[ScouserAtHeart]

Dominion Voting Systems suing Guiliani for $1.3 billion
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/01/25/politics/dominion-lawsuit-giuliani/index.html?

The .3 part of that is just so petty. I love it.

[Wabaloolah]

I think we are all being very over optimistic about penalties trump may face, federally I don’t think he will be impeached. I just cannot see sufficient republican senators switching over to impeach (how many intend to retire rather than running again, if you add those up plus Romney and 1 or 2 more could you get near 67?). So if he is not impeached and it moves to state investigation what happens then - I would feel much better if he was prosecuted over tax offences rather than corruption/interfering etc, we all believe he is corrupt but it takes more than belief for conviction and I have always had this feeling that there is always a grey area that a judge may allow that his words should not be taken as is,I’m wording that badly but I’m trying to say he has plausible deniability and so even if he was suspected of a state political crime he gets off. Hopefully taxes catch him as they are generally open and shut cases - to this day I still give out to my wife for watching him on US apprentice as that blasted show gave him a false platform as a successful businessman and inflated his image entirely!

he's already been impeached, he may not get "convicted" at a trial but he is still the first President ever to be impeached twice

[stoa]

It would be hilarious, if Trump couldn't even do bad stuff right...

In short: Some of his pardons for the likes of Stone, Manafort or Bannon might not be worth the paper they're written on, because they are only for the crimes they were actually convicted of. So, if a prosecutor wants they could be charged again for stuff that wasn't included in their first trial and they could end up back in jail.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/Mb8tNYinPX0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/Mb8tNYinPX0</a>
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/PCWxknzIg0o" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/PCWxknzIg0o</a>

[Red Beret]

It would be hilarious, if Trump couldn't even do bad stuff right...

In short: Some of his pardons for the likes of Stone, Manafort or Bannon might not be worth the paper they're written on, because they are only for the crimes they were actually convicted of. So, if a prosecutor wants they could be charged again for stuff that wasn't included in their first trial and they could end up back in jail.

A pardon would normally be along the lines of "any and all misdeeds done in service...", which was what Nixon's pardon was.  But it would be just like to Trump to leave the pardon open. However, the flip side is this allows his cronies to maintain their 5th Amendment rights, even with a pardon; because they have the right to not incriminate themselves on something the pardon doesn't cover.

[Ray K]

Mitch McConnell voted against continuing with the impeachment trial as it's 'unconstitutional'. Only 5 GOPers voted to continue.

Well done every media type who breathlessly reported that McConnell would support impeachment. You got played.

Trump will get acquitted in the Senate and will be the nominee in 2024.

[Buggy Eyes Alfredo]

Collins, Murkowski, Romney, Sasse, and Toomey.