Topic: Virgil Van Dijk (Cpt)

[DangerScouse]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/12040/12266957/jonny-otto-wolves-defender-out-for-season-after-suffering-acl-injury

Just leaving this here for anyone who still wants Virgil back this season, or thinks that he'll return this season. Jonny returned bang on 6 months post op...

Christ, poor lad. The thoughts of that happening to Virg.

[Welshred]

Do we not have some control over stuff like this though after such long term injuries ? It's not like it was a muscle injury or pull, we've managed the whole thing and know every detail and step.  Genuine question, I dont know.
I will say though, if we did and he was fit and our medical team were happy and he was fully recovered, I'd love to see him at the Euro's. It will take time to get himself back, so get the poor games out of the way for my Dutch friends. The player himself must be absolute desperate to be at them.
Klopp seems to be very supportive of players playing for their country. I know as fans we can only see Liverpool, but is the chance to win something internationally for these players more attractive for them that winning for their club ? Not for all but for an awful lot yeah

Wolves' medical staff deemed Jonny fit to return and they were happy. Now he's got at least another year of rehab following surgery because he re-ruptured his ACL graft returning at the exact same time frame you've just mentioned you'd be happy to see Virgil return in. It's dangerous, it massively increases risk of injury and anything before 9 months is risking yet another serious injury to the one he's already had. That's before we go into Jonny having just his ACL reconstructed compared to Virgil having his MCL repaired as well!

Where has this been reported?

It isn’t being reported.. but that doesn’t mean people don’t know...

Ok?

[Eeyore]

To avoid a recurrence Virg needs to be in the best shape of his life. For me that means a full pre-season and him being gently reintroduced back into the fold. Rushing him back would be absolute madness.

[slaphead]

Wolves' medical staff deemed Jonny fit to return and they were happy. Now he's got at least another year of rehab following surgery because he re-ruptured his ACL graft returning at the exact same time frame you've just mentioned you'd be happy to see Virgil return in. It's dangerous, it massively increases risk of injury and anything before 9 months is risking yet another serious injury to the one he's already had. That's before we go into Jonny having just his ACL reconstructed compared to Virgil having his MCL repaired as well!

I don't really understand all the medical stuff to be honest that's not my bag. But what I said, or what I meant, was that if all parties are happy for him to return it would be nice to see him play. In my opinion there's not a better player in the world to watch play football. Obviously the Jonny one is dreadful news for the fella and hopefully he can come back. It seems wrong to me for a medical team to clear someone or be happy for them to return if the risks of a re-occurrence are massive. I dont now who makes decisions here. Medical, managers, players, all 3.
All I care about in all this is Van Dijk and getting him playing football again injury free, whether the first return is in a red shirt or an orange one

[dakid]

It isn’t being reported.. but that doesn’t mean people don’t know...

Ok?

Why wouldn't it be OK?

[TepidT2O]

Why wouldn't it be OK?

As in, do you understand.  Wink wink, nudge nudge, know what I mean?


A nod’s as good as a wink to a blind man

[JackWard33]

I don't really understand all the medical stuff to be honest that's not my bag. But what I said, or what I meant, was that if all parties are happy for him to return it would be nice to see him play. In my opinion there's not a better player in the world to watch play football. Obviously the Jonny one is dreadful news for the fella and hopefully he can come back. It seems wrong to me for a medical team to clear someone or be happy for them to return if the risks of a re-occurrence are massive. I dont now who makes decisions here. Medical, managers, players, all 3.
All I care about in all this is Van Dijk and getting him playing football again injury free, whether the first return is in a red shirt or an orange one

The idea he'd be best served by an international tournament where he could play 3 games in 10 days then 7 games in 4 weeks after not playing all season is pretty lunatic - I can't imagine why any liverpool fan would want to see it and if it happeend wouldnt be watching through their fingers while suppressing a bit of vomit..

He's a 30 year old whose elite career is based on freakish physical abilities coming off an ACL and PCL - its not a great situation
If he's back and can start some of our games at the start of next season and comes back as 90% of the player he was that would be a great result.

[No666]

Wolves' Jonny Castro Otto seems to have done his ACL again and his MCL by returning within six months of the first ACL injury. There is no way going to the Euros is sensible for VvD.

[Red-Soldier]

Wolves' Jonny Castro Otto seems to have done his ACL again and his MCL by returning within six months of the first ACL injury. There is no way going to the Euros is sensible for VvD.

Bit late with that one 

[B0151?]

I really hope he doesn't go to the Euros

But surely if he went his game time would be limited to some degree, given Netherlands actually have good CBs and he hasn't played all season. I guess he's that good but it seems like a risk from their position too.

I don't want that to happen though. I'm guessing him even trying to get back to full training too quickly is a risk. I want the most cautious return possible.

[dakid]

If he was planning on returning to play, as has been hinted here, before 9 months and heading to the Euros hopefully the news for Bradley Dack and Jonny having a second ACL injury after returning to play, too soon in Jonny's cases give him good for thought.

[El Lobo]

I'm sure if there's anyone who can have that conversation with Virg, it'd be Klopp.

As an elite, monster of an athlete I can imagine you're always looking at the 'best case scenario' and how soon can I get back playing, particularly when there's a Euros coming up and he's never played at a major tournament for his country. We can all sit here and talk about the sensible, logical thing to do but its very different to actually being an ambitious professional footballer at the highest level.

[Alan B'Stard]

For the all the hype, I don't think VVD will go to the Euro's especially if he doesn't play for the club this season. The club will want to manage that risk carefully and besides the World Cup is next year so and even bigger stage for Virg to play on.

[MD1990]

For the all the hype, I don't think VVD will go to the Euro's especially if he doesn't play for the club this season. The club will want to manage that risk carefully and besides the World Cup is next year so and even bigger stage for Virg to play on.

Liverpool will have np say. Of course Klopp wont wnat him going.

But if Van Dijk wants to go & is selected nothing we can do.
We also need to be careful because he has 2 years left on his contract .

We dont want to ruin the relationship with Van Dijk
It will come down to if Holland select him or not.

They should do the right thing as they have depth in the position.

[Dubred]

Virg has got to be not only the best defender in the world, but also one of the most sensible players too.  He's very level headed.

Never mind pressure from outside for him to play, I honestly don't think Virg will take any risks on his own rehabilitation if it means putting his future at risk.  Not even if it means missing the Euros.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Probably helps that the World Cup is only a season (and a bit) after the Euros rather than the usual 2-year wait.

[bornandbRED]

Conversely - Depay, Chiellini, Falcao and Ibrahimovic are some names who came back within 6-7 months and haven’t experienced recurrence.

The Euros start in June, 8 months after the injury. A study in the BMJ states 6.6 months is the average time taken for a player to return to training post ACL (10,000+ player sample). Rightly or wrongly, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him in the Dutch squad.

[lamonti]

The Dutch should be able to navigate a group of Ukraine, Austria and North Macedonia (recent victory against Germany notwithstanding) in a tournament where most 3rd place teams qualify from their groups without any dependence on VVD.

If they want to bring him they don't have to use him in every game.

[Welshred]

Virg has got to be not only the best defender in the world, but also one of the most sensible players too.  He's very level headed.

Never mind pressure from outside for him to play, I honestly don't think Virg will take any risks on his own rehabilitation if it means putting his future at risk.  Not even if it means missing the Euros.

Virgil is the one putting pressure on for an early return, has done since day 1.

Liverpool will have np say. Of course Klopp wont wnat him going.

But if Van Dijk wants to go & is selected nothing we can do.
We also need to be careful because he has 2 years left on his contract .

We dont want to ruin the relationship with Van Dijk
It will come down to if Holland select him or not.

They should do the right thing as they have depth in the position.

None of this matters if the surgeon says no.

Conversely - Depay, Chiellini, Falcao and Ibrahimovic are some names who came back within 6-7 months and haven’t experienced recurrence.

The Euros start in June, 8 months after the injury. A study in the BMJ states 6.6 months is the average time taken for a player to return to training post ACL (10,000+ player sample). Rightly or wrongly, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him in the Dutch squad.

Depay returned in pre-season, his first competitive match would have been around 8.5 months post-op
Chiellini has suffered an abundance of muscle related injuries since returning early from his ACL
Zlatan came back, played a couple of games and then spent the next few months out with an injury to the same knee as his ACL
Falcao is the only one out of those 4 that you mentioned who you could consider a success returning early but then you can also consider him lucky that he didn't pick up any other injuries

None of those compare to Virgil though because as far as I know none of them had their MCL repaired at the same time making it a much more complicated injury to recover from.

Virgil had his surgery on the 31s October, him returning for the Euro's means he'll have to be fit and playing football at the end of May, 7 months after, and maybe even before then! You've quoted return to training as well which isn't return to playing, there's no 'rightly' about it if he plays at the Euro's it's 100% wrong and he's massively risking reinjuring the ACL.

[bornandbRED]

Virgil is the one putting pressure on for an early return, has done since day 1.

None of this matters if the surgeon says no.

Depay returned in pre-season, his first competitive match would have been around 8.5 months post-op
Chiellini has suffered an abundance of muscle related injuries since returning early from his ACL
Zlatan came back, played a couple of games and then spent the next few months out with an injury to the same knee as his ACL
Falcao is the only one out of those 4 that you mentioned who you could consider a success returning early but then you can also consider him lucky that he didn't pick up any other injuries

None of those compare to Virgil though because as far as I know none of them had their MCL repaired at the same time making it a much more complicated injury to recover from.

Virgil had his surgery on the 31s October, him returning for the Euro's means he'll have to be fit and playing football at the end of May, 7 months after, and maybe even before then! You've quoted return to training as well which isn't return to playing, there's no 'rightly' about it if he plays at the Euro's it's 100% wrong and he's massively risking reinjuring the ACL.

I was referring to recurring ACL rupture - the types of injuries suffered by Chiellini/Ibrahimovic are to be expected after that kind of lay off and VVD will be lucky to escape those in any case, even if he takes two years off. None of them re-ruptured their ACL.

The same study states 7 months for a return to play. This is across 15 year period with a sample size of over 10,000 players, so it seems this is a fairly normal period for return to play. Accept the MCL could be an additional factor but rarely is there damage exclusively to one ligament with these types of injuries.

I think VVD goes to the Euros.

[dakid]

I was referring to recurring ACL rupture - the types of injuries suffered by Chiellini/Ibrahimovic are to be expected after that kind of lay off and VVD will be lucky to escape those in any case, even if he takes two years off. None of them re-ruptured their ACL.

The same study states 7 months for a return to play. This is across 15 year period with a sample size of over 10,000 players, so it seems this is a fairly normal period for return to play. Accept the MCL could be an additional factor but rarely is there damage exclusively to one ligament with these types of injuries.

I think VVD goes to the Euros.

Can you link this study as that doesn't sound right compared to what i have read pretty much everywhere else.

The main study I have come across says "The reinjury rate was significantly reduced by 51% for each month RTS was delayed until 9 months after surgery, after which no further risk reduction was observed."

Source - https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/50/13/804

[aw1991]

Probably helps that the World Cup is only a season (and a bit) after the Euros rather than the usual 2-year wait.

I hope so. It makes more sense to save him for the bigger tournament but sense doesn't always play a role in this game.

[Welshred]

Can you link this study as that doesn't sound right compared to what i have read pretty much everywhere else.

The main study I have come across says "The reinjury rate was significantly reduced by 51% for each month RTS was delayed until 9 months after surgery, after which no further risk reduction was observed."

Source - https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/50/13/804

He's quoting a legit study, I'm on my phone right now but can't find it. Just because they return to training and return to play doesn't mean they should. Ligamentisation of the new graft isn't complete until 9 months, maybe even longer, and that combined with the study you've quoted is more important imo but football is a sport where they like to push the limits whether that's right or wrong. In my opinion it's wrong but it's just the way the sport is.

[MD1990]

training is far different to playing in a high intensity game.

i do hope the surgeon as WelshRed said keeps holding him back.
Because if he plays in the Euro's he could risk his career.

Johnny at Wolves done his knee again & it is even worse than the previous injury & he has another ligament in his knee as well as the ACL.

[Crimson]

He can do a John Terry. Showing up at the celebrations in full kit (assuming they win the thing...  )

[bornandbRED]

Can you link this study as that doesn't sound right compared to what i have read pretty much everywhere else.

The main study I have come across says "The reinjury rate was significantly reduced by 51% for each month RTS was delayed until 9 months after surgery, after which no further risk reduction was observed."

Source - https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/50/13/804

Yeah I should have posted the link - see below:

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/50/12/744

The one you quoted has a relatively small sample size and wasn’t conducted on professional athletes. It also states symmetrical quadricep strength as being pivotal in reducing re-injury - athletes will of course generally have far superior overall strength so naturally the same time constraints do not apply.

The below study states many factors may be responsible for potential graft failure/re-injury or not, including age, graft type, surgical technique, rehab etc. Things we aren’t privy to and I’m sure the club will be factoring in - but things which could circumvent the 9 month guidance.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32374646/

As LFC fans we’d obviously rather he didn’t go, but the time frame certainly fits the conventional recovery time for this kind of injury.

[Samie]

[TepidT2O]

Lots of new training  clips today....

So I watched some gam clips  of him... unreal.. you forget so quickly..

[Samie]

Aye,  new training montage up.

https://twitter.com/LFC/status/1383433063367987203

[PeterTheRed ...]

I love when I see a player in proper football boots ...

[Kitch83]

Lots of new training  clips today....

So I watched some gam clips  of him... unreal.. you forget so quickly..

The season we won number 6, in isolation, I don't think there has ever been a centre back perform even close to the level he did that year. He was peak Messi/Ronaldo level.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

The season we won number 6, in isolation, I don't think there has ever been a centre back perform even close to the level he did that year. He was peak Messi/Ronaldo level.

It was comical at times.

[The_Nomad]

Wonder if his rehabilitation includes training for when one of his heavier teammates jumps onto him after scoring a goal? 

[harleydanger]

It was comical at times.

[amir87]

Man I miss him.

Underwears will have to be changed when he returns.

[spider-neil]

I really hope he isn't picked for the Euros. Let him heal and then have a proper full pre-season.

[spider-neil]

Aye,  new training montage up.

https://twitter.com/LFC/status/1383433063367987203

Someone should mix that to 'Hearts on Fire' (music played during the Rocky 4 training montage).

[killer-heels]

I really hope he isn't picked for the Euros. Let him heal and then have a proper full pre-season.

Its almost May and there is no indication that he is anywhere near full team training, let alone another game for us. It seems pretty unlikely.

[spider-neil]

Its almost May and there is no indication that he is anywhere near full team training, let alone another game for us. It seems pretty unlikely.

The Euros are in June, right? So over two months away. There may be a temptation for his international team to pick him and there may be a temptation from the player to play and test himself.

[El Lobo]

So come on Welshred, what do the knee scars mean? New kneecap?