Topic: Survivors: Talk about it, share it, we'll try to help

[cowlos]

Got me head together, thinking of the positives. The time of the year and comments like that just make me wonder when this will end! The thoughts of people on here and good friends are always a help. Thanks

[24/7]

Got me head together, thinking of the positives. The time of the year and comments like that just make me wonder when this will end! The thoughts of people on here and good friends are always a help. Thanks

Classic survivor guilt in your earlier post mate and as usual Maggie's head bangs nail into wood beautifully.

I read your longer post in the other thread (people reading this should make the effort to go and find what you wrote) and my heart went out to you.

Wankers like the people you encountered rarely have any realisation as to the damage they are doing and what annoys me is that they are largely responsible for the formation of opinions in young people's minds, seriously wtf is that about......do you think you have the energy to try and educate them? If so, it's worth a try - because they might benefit, the people they influence might benefit and you might also then benefit.

At least your 9 yr old knows the truth eh? Perhaps he can speak for you, on your behalf.

That might shame the c*nts into learning something they need to learn, yeah?

[Shanks1965]

I have two sons, one is 31 and the other 28. when I left for Sheffield that day they were 9 and 6 years old. I'm a lucky man, I got to see them grow up, this far at least. Unlike some of our brothers and sisters.

My youngest son is a journalist and a few years ago he was sat in the press area in a court room covering a case for the newspaper he works for and a journalist from that newspaper that shouldn be mentioned here was there. Apparently he said something about Hillsborough and Liverpool supporters and my lad let him have it, told him his dad was there etc etc. I only know this story through a mate who my son told the story too. He never told me. Infact he has never asked me about Hillsborough, not a single word, until last Saturday when we got back from Wembley. We were sat in the pub with all the lads who had been down to the game having a quiet beer and he asked me "what happened from where I was sat and what did I see and what did I do?".  I started to tell him and got about 30 seconds in and started crying. I couldnt talk. I just sat there choked up. Trying to force the words out but I couldnt. And as I've said many times.... I'm one of the really lucky ones.

[the invisible man]

I have two sons, one is 31 and the other 28. when I left for Sheffield that day they were 9 and 6 years old. I'm a lucky man, I got to see them grow up, this far at least. Unlike some of our brothers and sisters.

My youngest son is a journalist and a few years ago he was sat in the press area in a court room covering a case for the newspaper he works for and a journalist from that newspaper that shouldn be mentioned here was there. Apparently he said something about Hillsborough and Liverpool supporters and my lad let him have it, told him his dad was there etc etc. I only know this story through a mate who my son told the story too. He never told me. Infact he has never asked me about Hillsborough, not a single word, until last Saturday when we got back from Wembley. We were sat in the pub with all the lads who had been down to the game having a quiet beer and he asked me "what happened from where I was sat and what did I see and what did I do?".  I started to tell him and got about 30 seconds in and started crying. I couldnt talk. I just sat there choked up. Trying to force the words out but I couldnt. And as I've said many times.... I'm one of the really lucky ones.

shanks 1965 mate.... many many people are in the same boat and haven't talkede about it in years or since, soi when the crunch times come we can't handle it....

shanks mate, crying is ok, its good to talk about and to deal with the emotions you been botling up all these years, trying to protect your kids but more likely protecting yourself and your feelings ...

the more you talk about it the better, in here or face to face is good, don't worry if you get teary or upset.... look at it this way, remember the sheer joy and ecstasy of Istanbul, well we need experience the lows in order to be able to enjoy the highs.. so well done shanks for sharing this... keep on sharing mate,... ynwa

[CHOPPER]

I was stood at the tunnel that leads onto the terrace, I went to go in and stopped, looked down it, turned around and to the side of it was the steps leading to the stands above. I pondered to bunk in up there, but there was two security guards at the entrance, thought I couldn't bunk it and turned to go into the tunnel. We always went and stood on the terracing on the left hand side but seeing as I got split up from are kid and the lads outside in the crushing, I thought I'd go behind the goal for change, just as I turned to go down the tunnel.....they opened the gates for all those outside... the two stewards left the stairway to go over to the gates, I thought fuck it and ran into and up the stairs. Saved me life I reckon that decision. I don't like to think about it too much, but when I do it really does get me thinking about the what if factor. I try and laugh it off and tell meself crime does pay, but fuck knows what would of happened if I never bunked up stairs. Still turns me stomach to this day. One of our mates wasn't so lucky.

[the invisible man]

I was stood at the tunnel that leads onto the terrace, I went to go in and stopped, looked down it, turned around and to the side of it was the steps leading to the stands above. I pondered to bunk in up there, but there was two security guards at the entrance, thought I couldn't bunk it and turned to go into the tunnel. We always went and stood on the terracing on the left hand side but seeing as I got split up from are kid and the lads outside in the crushing, I thought I'd go behind the goal for change, just as I turned to go down the tunnel.....they opened the gates for all those outside... the two stewards left the stairway to go over to the gates, I thought fuck it and ran into and up the stairs. Saved me life I reckon that decision. I don't like to think about it too much, but when I do it really does get me thinking about the what if factor. I try and laugh it off and tell meself crime does pay, but fuck knows what would of happened if I never bunked up stairs. Still turns me stomach to this day. One of our mates wasn't so lucky.

thanks for sharing this chopper... its important we talk about it, even if it makes us feel worse at times, but anger, guilt, the constant why's never go away....  but you did make the choice and  you are here, just enjoy your life now and spread the word about the scum and justice..... well done mate... ynwa

[mccred]

And as to what the fucking point of carrying on is, you went with him to the semi on Saturday.

Best love mate. 

Dead right Maggie, the point is right there with you.
As for what those two c*nts said, what can you say. They disgraced themselves in front off the whole nation the next day after are semi. Classless to the core!

[iAnfieldRoad]

Your right, I lost a sister when I was 14, she was 9, but I have closure on that because I know everything was done that could be done and the Doctors gave us two extra years with their treatments, so I've been able to move on from that, although obviously at times it still hurts and I miss her.
Hillsborough is different because its still an open wound still and until justice is done and someone stands up and says yeah we fucked up badly and the people responsible accept their responsibility it always will be an open wound. I just try not to prod it to often, but with these Tory's bastard back in charge, I think there will always be a spin put on it to protect the heroine Thatcher.
Never understood why Labour didn't open up the papers when they were in charge, but then I guess their just Torys in another guise these days.

Struggling this year. I took my 9 year old lad the semi on Saturday. In a bad way half an hour before kick off and at the end. Thank god he knows and kept grabbing me as I cried! It had been a bad week leading up to it with the nightmares and tears all week. Come Monday, I felt a bit better, then yesterday! I posted in the "fans attitudes " section about last night but don't know how to move it.
Basically ( i live down south now. Moved here in 1990 for work) i run me 6 yr olds footy team. Club secretary and his wife, who are in their fifties, are Chelsea fans. For a bit of a laugh, I put on me Barca trackie for the meeting. I got called a Scouse wanker, which you can take but then he said, "are we going to have to move any more kick offs for you lot, it's been 23 years get over it." As I was trying to tell him where to go and why, his wife says to another woman ," I don't know why they get so sad, after all they killed their own fans that day," I was furious and started on her before I walked out in case I did something I'd regret! I mean she said it with a little grin on her face as if she was saying something I'd be embaressed about!!!
Apart from the anger and sacking off the club, it's really hit me for six. Anyone that knows me knows I've struggled for the years since I got out of Pen3. I just start to wonder what's the fucking point. These are supposedly grown adults. Not even somewhere like a match where you deal with it. But a football meeting for a kids club!
I have always felt guilty that I'm still here to have kids and a life and they're not. I'm just getting to the point where I can't take this any more

That was shocking what you had to put up with at the kids meeting.We all understand what you are going through and for them to act like that is disgraceful.Never feel guilty as the 96 wouldnt want you too and never give up your family love you too much.We will get justice one of these days.YNWA

[mccred]

Struggling this year. I took my 9 year old lad the semi on Saturday. In a bad way half an hour before kick off and at the end. Thank god he knows and kept grabbing me as I cried! It had been a bad week leading up to it with the nightmares and tears all week. Come Monday, I felt a bit better, then yesterday! I posted in the "fans attitudes " section about last night but don't know how to move it.
Basically ( i live down south now. Moved here in 1990 for work) i run me 6 yr olds footy team. Club secretary and his wife, who are in their fifties, are Chelsea fans. For a bit of a laugh, I put on me Barca trackie for the meeting. I got called a Scouse wanker, which you can take but then he said, "are we going to have to move any more kick offs for you lot, it's been 23 years get over it." As I was trying to tell him where to go and why, his wife says to another woman ," I don't know why they get so sad, after all they killed their own fans that day," I was furious and started on her before I walked out in case I did something I'd regret! I mean she said it with a little grin on her face as if she was saying something I'd be embaressed about!!!
Apart from the anger and sacking off the club, it's really hit me for six. Anyone that knows me knows I've struggled for the years since I got out of Pen3. I just start to wonder what's the fucking point. These are supposedly grown adults. Not even somewhere like a match where you deal with it. But a football meeting for a kids club!
I have always felt guilty that I'm still here to have kids and a life and they're not. I'm just getting to the point where I can't take this any more

Sadly these peoples minds were made up years ago and nothing will change it, minor I know but similar with Suarez case, just no point in pointing them towards the facts.
These people are morons, can't see past what really in the scheme of things of minor football rivalries. They think that by making comments like that, that are in some weird way in their minds supporting their clubs.
Don't get me wrong in makes me boil inside and on few occasion have had to be stopped from hitting out at these morons, they somehow think they've got one up you and your team?
If you can't put football rivalries to one side and understand that the deaths of 96 innocent men, women and children then morons isn't really a strong enough word.
They proved what a bunch of plastic fucking idiots they were at their semi final with Spurs, shame the FA are so weak and don't hand out punishment to the clubs and supporters with away fan bans and fines that actually hurt the club. But the people who died were mainly English and white, I wonder what the situation would of been if most of the victims were black. I don't say that in any racist way or to be controversial but think the songs would of been stamped out and the bigots shown for what they are, instead of it being ignored.  Think the super politically correct FA would of come down on them with a ton of bricks.
At the end of the day the FA have allowed filth and bile to be song on the terraces for 20 odd years now about Hillsborough, they are not going to do anything. Even the Man Utd players singing We've won it once more than Nottingham Forrest without killing anyone, went by without a word said in the media. Imagine the Liverpool team singing We won it 5 times without crashing our plane, we won it 5 times. There would of been a shit storm that still would be carrying on today.
We all know the FA our just a bunch of useless c*nts and it's going to just carry on. Time one of the proper newspapers, probably The Times, should point it out and make a real fuss over it.
I know we still have idiots who go on about Munich, fact is most Man U, it means nothing to them, weren't alive when it happened and know fuck all about it really, not sure where I going with that?
The fuck wits who sing about Hillsborough though, its time it was stamped out but you can't educate shit.
Fully understand your anger over what was said, did well not to batter her. You proved you were the better person.
Guilt is something I've always struggled with, like yourself, but anger is still the biggest emotion I feel about Hillsborough and until we have some sort of justice, starting with the terrace bigotry that goes unpunished, through to those responsible putting their hands up and saying yes we got it badly wrong, from not stop fans entering the tunnel to the smear campaign and cover up afterwards.
Maybe one day we'll get it, it long over due.
Sorry for going on but I can't talk about it, so writing it helps get some of it out of my system. Last Christmas, I bought all my family Ann Williams book and Phil Scrattons I think it was because it was the only way I could show them how much it affected me. Mum apologized after reading them cause she had no idea how bad it was, she didn't need to, when I have spoken about the day, its usually to my Mum but I never get very far cause its a scab I can't allow myself to pick at to much.

JFT96 and all of Hillsboroughs victims now!  YNWA

[mccred]

I was stood at the tunnel that leads onto the terrace, I went to go in and stopped, looked down it, turned around and to the side of it was the steps leading to the stands above. I pondered to bunk in up there, but there was two security guards at the entrance, thought I couldn't bunk it and turned to go into the tunnel. We always went and stood on the terracing on the left hand side but seeing as I got split up from are kid and the lads outside in the crushing, I thought I'd go behind the goal for change, just as I turned to go down the tunnel.....they opened the gates for all those outside... the two stewards left the stairway to go over to the gates, I thought fuck it and ran into and up the stairs. Saved me life I reckon that decision. I don't like to think about it too much, but when I do it really does get me thinking about the what if factor. I try and laugh it off and tell meself crime does pay, but fuck knows what would of happened if I never bunked up stairs. Still turns me stomach to this day. One of our mates wasn't so lucky.

I spent about 20 minutes trying to talk a young lad into swapping his terrace ticket for my seat above, didn't really realize that once in you could take your pick about standing or going upstairs.
Spent 23 years plus wondering how that lad got on, praying he made it, I'll never know. Did he make a decision that cost his life by not swapping with me.
If you were sat on the wall near the turn styles and had someone from the west country trying to blag your terrace ticket for about 20 minutes be great to know you got through it.
I know its a long shot, but who knows?

[macca888]

I hope it's ok to put this here, but it's just something I wanted to share and didn't know where else to put it, so please bear with me. If any of the mods want to move it or delete it that's fine too.

My next door neighbour, Jimmy, is a cracking bloke. Up until a few years ago, he was a season ticket holder at Liverpool and Everton. He was born a blue nose but his best mate was a red. Luckily for him, his dad had a business that was doing quite well, so he had season tickets for both clubs, just so he could go to the match every week with his mate. Over the course of 40 odd years or so, he grew to love Liverpool and if anyone had asked him who he supported, he'd say "Reds and blues, and I hope it's a draw at the derby." He's paid his dues to our club; followed us in Europe, he lost a family friend at Hillsborough, donated loads, attended the Memorial services and did whatever he could.

Anyway, over the last few years, he's been developing Alzheimer's. To be honest, I never really understood how Alzheimer's worked. I just thought it was like an eraser, rubbing out time backwards. Sort of you couldn't remember what you had for tea last night, but could remember what you had last week. As it progressed, you couldn't remember what had happened any time in the last year, but you could remember what happened a couple of years back. And on and on it went until you were left with a blank slate almost. Jeez, was I wrong. It doesn't work anything like that. My heart goes out to anyone suffering with this or anyone who has a family member with it. It's like certain parts of his life are missing at random, and in other parts, there's a fog over them. Big chunks are missing in some places like literally a house he lived in for 15 years is missing, and certain parts of others things are just lost to him like he can sense it, but can't make out the fine details. Some days he thinks Emlyn is still the captain and other days he knows it's Gerrard.

So what I've been doing for a while now is having a coffee with him most nights and trying to get him talking about his memories, especially trying to help in any way I can to keep his brain active and stretch him a bit. I've found that if he's talking about something I know enough about, he'll work really hard to get the foggy details clear, and it sometimes works. This is the bit though that has crippled me this week to be honest. For some reason, he started talking about football tragedies. Now I knew that he was a Hillsborough survivor, but the ony tragedy he was talking about was Ibrox. I can't explain to you how sickening the feeling is when you can see the wheels turning in someone's eyes trying to latch on to a memory but not being able to grasp hold.

So I thought the best thing to do was bring up Hillsborough and hope it would help him to connect the dots in his mind. Well, 1988, he could almost give me every last detail of the game and everything else on the day. But 1989 just wouldn't come to him at all. It was really hard not to push him to try and remember, because when it just won't come to him, he gets really frustrated. So I tried leading him to it as gently as possible. Eventually, the penny started dropping and I could see the relief on his face. It's hard to say it without sounding condescending, but what I've noticed is when it happens, I get that look off him, the sort of look a baby gives you when they've clapped their hands or put the spoon in their own mouth; like they're pleased as punch and want you to be proud of them. I hope that doesn't offend anyone but it's the closest honest description I can give.

As we started talking about his memories of Hillsborough though, I've got to tell you that the upset washed over me like a wave. Not for me, but for him. He said "How the hell can anyone justify losing 35 lives?"  I said to him "Jim, it wasn't 35 mate. It was 96. You know the Eternal Flame memorial you've seen it before loads. You know the song you've sang plenty of times "Justice For The 96" But he couldn't remember. As much as I tried, I could see him looking at me disbelievingly. And the reason that he thinks only 35 died is because of this fucking God forsaken disease he's got. His day ends somewhere on the coach ride home, listening to whatever the radio station the driver had on confirming that the death toll was currently at 35. Even though he remembers lots of days after that, somewhere in his head, a switch has been thrown that will only allow him to associate that day with 35 peope dying.

I think the reason I wanted to share this with you all is because even if tomorrow was the 12th of September, Jim still wouldn't see justice for 61 of our lost brothers and sisters, because he doesn't know they're not here. And it got me thinking of all the families and friends, the survivors, and Liverpool FC family, of all those we've lost who wil never know when we finally get the justice we deserve. The most important thing for me is justice for our 96 families. But we also deserve justice for all our survivors and those who fought for it and won't be here when we finaly get it, peope like our own great Shanklyboy, and people who won't understand when we get it like Jimmy. Jimmy is a Hillsborough survivor and a good man, but one day soon he won't even remember that he survived or what we lost. I just hope that our fight for justice is won while there is at least some spark of recognition in his eyes. I would love to be able to tell him and have it actually mean something to him, even if he thinks it's only for 35 people. It would still be better than nothing.

Justice For The 96.

YNWA

Sean

[SwedenRed]

Cracking post Sean. Really enjoyed that read.

[the invisible man]

 

wowwww.. very emotional story sean, but so true.... not only is Altzeimer's a random degenerative syndrome, but even regular folks have different and even contrasting memories of that fateful day...

you see, we never knew it was coming so we didn't stop to make notes, and because of the devastation that followed, and the subsequent 23 years of lies and cover-ups, there have been many different accounts of that day, mostly being heroic recollection of true fans helping their mates rather than the shite widely thrown out by the gutter press....

people like your mate, sean, are the hero survivors who always knew what happened but is constantly taunted and berated by ignorant opposing fans and same gutter press.....

one set of people rarely acknowledged in this whole sorry day, are the wonderful people who live next to and close to Hillsborough and offered up their homes for stricken , many injured, but mainly traumatised fans , many of whom had lost loved ones, family n friends, offered up cups of tea, shoulders to cry on, and the absolute genuine offer of the use of their telephones, in the days before mobiles, the days before text messages and tweets etc.... so a heartfelt ''thank you'' to all those wonderfully generous people... because again back in those days, sheffield was a good 3-4 hours trip with all the stupid roadworks....!!

so thanks again sean for sharing this with us all who can relate to it in one way or another... and here's looking forward to 12th September and the panels report....  YNWA..

[El Festino]

I sincerely hope that Wednesday marks the day when all of you, families and friends of the 96 can begin to believe in justice again.

My thoughts and hopes are with you in this emotional time. Stay strong.

YNWA. JFT96.

[the invisible man]

I sincerely hope that Wednesday marks the day when all of you, families and friends of the 96 can begin to believe in justice again.

My thoughts and hopes are with you in this emotional time. Stay strong.

YNWA. JFT96.

justice is coming.......... bring it on.... ynwa

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

Just a word of warning to all the survivors.  If all the documents are released on Wednesday then it may be that the any statements you made to the initial West Midlands enquiry may be in there - or not in there - or modified versions may be in there.  Who knows but you might have to confront some very uncomfortable personal memories or deal with anger if your statement has gone missing or was altered. 

As usual this thread will always be open for anyone who needs it. 

[Millie]

Just a word of warning to all the survivors.  If all the documents are released on Wednesday then it may be that the any statements you made to the initial West Midlands enquiry may be in there - or not in there - or modified versions may be in there.  Who knows but you might have to confront some very uncomfortable personal memories or deal with anger if your statement has gone missing or was altered. 

As usual this thread will always be open for anyone who needs it. 

never thought about that - spent a considerable time with the West Midlands Police

[Swoop]

I was 23 year old lad who went to Hillsborough as an indestructible, happily married, happy go lucky serving soldier, always up for a laugh and any mischief going.

24hrs later I had changed.  I didn’t know it, let’s face it back in 89 the idea of a serving soldier or any young lad admitting that he was having “issues” after coming out of that ground without so much as a scratch was unthinkable.  I wasn’t in the central Pens, I was comfy up in the stands, I didn’t stay there once I sussed what was happening I went down onto the pitch to help with the resuscitation efforts of those who got their shit together and released that no-one else was helping so we had to help our own.

The worst feeling of my life was knowing that the fella I was working on wasn’t going to make it, I just know that once I realised he wasn’t responding I got up to leave and go onto the next one, the two girls working on him with me wouldn’t give up, I don’t know if they knew him and to my shame I never found out who he was.  He was dead when I left him.  So with the intention of helping more I set off through the police line towards the Leppings lane, it hit me then that my cousin and mate were in those pens, I panicked I had seen the result of what could happen and our kid was only 14, not even half the size of the fella whose life had just slipped away on a football pitch for no other reason than a SYP senior officer fucked up!

I honestly can’t remember too much of what I saw down at the Leppings lane, my memory has thankfully blocked out most of the sights, unfortunately not the noise or the feeling.  It’s a heart stopping sick feeling I get every time my mind wanders and my defences drop. I know that I didn’t do enough, didn’t help enough, like so many others that should have done much, much more I froze once I was down at the Leppings lane.  I was looking into the two pens desperately searching the faces for my cousin and my mate; I think it’s those faces that caused my mind to block out so much.

I don’t have a clue how long I was down there, I just know how desperate we all where, total strangers asking each other have you seen our kid, horrible fear laden minutes, I walked along the front where a few bodies had been lay out checking to see if I knew them, I remember a photographer getting a boot up the arse as he was still taking pictures of people up against the fence.  The ambulance, help at last, but where were the fuckin rest!

Like I say I don’t know how long I was there, I walked back to the other end and climbed back into the stand, sat down next to my brother who was with me and just started crying, the last time I would cry for 20 years.  I finally found my cousin and mate, they had originally been in the central pens but moved out of them as my mate sussed it was too crowded and he felt responsible for my cousin, he would have stayed in there if he had been alone. On the long drive home, I put up a brick wall around my feelings and bottled them all up and it stayed that way until the 20th anniversary.  My marriage fell apart, my career stalled and I became a sombre untrusting fella who has spent the rest of his life up till now, we’ll I would call it drifting, not really living.

The 20th anniversary I cried that day for the first time in 20 years and it cracked the wall.  Unfortunately I didn’t see what was coming and in January this year I had a full blown breakdown.  Six months off work, basically sat at home with the curtains drawn reclusive and afraid.  I’m back on the up and back in work, back to drifting.

I am not a survivor, I wasn’t in the pens, it screwed me up so god help those that came out of the pens, I hope you all get through and we don’t lose anyone else because of 15th April 1989.

[the invisible man]

I was 23 year old lad who went to Hillsborough as an indestructible, happily married, happy go lucky serving soldier, always up for a laugh and any mischief going.

24hrs later I had changed.  I didn’t know it, let’s face it back in 89 the idea of a serving soldier or any young lad admitting that he was having “issues” after coming out of that ground without so much as a scratch was unthinkable.  I wasn’t in the central Pens, I was comfy up in the stands, I didn’t stay there once I sussed what was happening I went down onto the pitch to help with the resuscitation efforts of those who got their shit together and released that no-one else was helping so we had to help our own.

The worst feeling of my life was knowing that the fella I was working on wasn’t going to make it, I just know that once I realised he wasn’t responding I got up to leave and go onto the next one, the two girls working on him with me wouldn’t give up, I don’t know if they knew him and to my shame I never found out who he was.  He was dead when I left him.  So with the intention of helping more I set off through the police line towards the Leppings lane, it hit me then that my cousin and mate were in those pens, I panicked I had seen the result of what could happen and our kid was only 14, not even half the size of the fella whose life had just slipped away on a football pitch for no other reason than a SYP senior officer fucked up!

I honestly can’t remember too much of what I saw down at the Leppings lane, my memory has thankfully blocked out most of the sights, unfortunately not the noise or the feeling.  It’s a heart stopping sick feeling I get every time my mind wanders and my defences drop. I know that I didn’t do enough, didn’t help enough, like so many others that should have done much, much more I froze once I was down at the Leppings lane.  I was looking into the two pens desperately searching the faces for my cousin and my mate; I think it’s those faces that caused my mind to block out so much.

I don’t have a clue how long I was down there, I just know how desperate we all where, total strangers asking each other have you seen our kid, horrible fear laden minutes, I walked along the front where a few bodies had been lay out checking to see if I knew them, I remember a photographer getting a boot up the arse as he was still taking pictures of people up against the fence.  The ambulance, help at last, but where were the fuckin rest!

Like I say I don’t know how long I was there, I walked back to the other end and climbed back into the stand, sat down next to my brother who was with me and just started crying, the last time I would cry for 20 years.  I finally found my cousin and mate, they had originally been in the central pens but moved out of them as my mate sussed it was too crowded and he felt responsible for my cousin, he would have stayed in there if he had been alone. On the long drive home, I put up a brick wall around my feelings and bottled them all up and it stayed that way until the 20th anniversary.  My marriage fell apart, my career stalled and I became a sombre untrusting fella who has spent the rest of his life up till now, we’ll I would call it drifting, not really living.

The 20th anniversary I cried that day for the first time in 20 years and it cracked the wall.  Unfortunately I didn’t see what was coming and in January this year I had a full blown breakdown.  Six months off work, basically sat at home with the curtains drawn reclusive and afraid.  I’m back on the up and back in work, back to drifting.

I am not a survivor, I wasn’t in the pens, it screwed me up so god help those that came out of the pens, I hope you all get through and we don’t lose anyone else because of 15th April 1989.

thanks for sharing swoop mate... any time there is someone here to talk with...YNWA

[Arthurs Bar]

Don't think there are many weeks go by that Hillsborough doesnt come to mind but once April arrives it effects me badly. The days leading up to the 15th are difficult, very difficult and I never get over it. I'm a grown man who cries in private and recalls that day with terrible apprehension and guilt. The last couple of days have been exactly the same as those April days because of the documents and what they could bring. The recollections of pen 4 are strong but for the first time I have a source of hope in the documents that the truth will come out. If that is the case I believe they will help me achieve some conclusion. I'm praying for that and for the families and survivors to be the same.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

Don't think there are many weeks go by that Hillsborough doesnt come to mind but once April arrives it effects me badly. The days leading up to the 15th are difficult, very difficult and I never get over it. I'm a grown man who cries in private and recalls that day with terrible apprehension and guilt. The last couple of days have been exactly the same as those April days because of the documents and what they could bring. The recollections of pen 4 are strong but for the first time I have a source of hope in the documents that the truth will come out. If that is the case I believe they will help me achieve some conclusion. I'm praying for that and for the families and survivors to be the same.

This thread will be open all day tomorrow should you need it mate.  Same for anyone else who needs to talk but is not sure who to talk to.

[Maggie May]

Don't think there are many weeks go by that Hillsborough doesnt come to mind but once April arrives it effects me badly. The days leading up to the 15th are difficult, very difficult and I never get over it. I'm a grown man who cries in private and recalls that day with terrible apprehension and guilt. The last couple of days have been exactly the same as those April days because of the documents and what they could bring. The recollections of pen 4 are strong but for the first time I have a source of hope in the documents that the truth will come out. If that is the case I believe they will help me achieve some conclusion. I'm praying for that and for the families and survivors to be the same.

I implore you to get help mate.   You're suffering from PTSD, survivour syndrome, survivour guilt - term it as you will.  This is far more readily acknowledged these days than 24 years ago, and treatment is more sophisticated and readily available.  And it makes no odds that you have battled with your condition for so long alone - many people do this before they seek help.  Your condition is treatable and manageable - truly it is.  But please continue to talk on RAWK if it is difficult to talk anywhere else.  It helps and lightens the burden you carry.  Try it mate.  You are among friends here.

[Arthurs Bar]

I implore you to get help mate.   You're suffering from PTSD, survivour syndrome, survivour guilt - term it as you will.  This is far more readily acknowledged these days than 24 years ago, and treatment is more sophisticated and readily available.  And it makes no odds that you have battled with your condition for so long alone - many people do this before they seek help.  Your condition is treatable and manageable - truly it is.  But please continue to talk on RAWK if it is difficult to talk anywhere else.  It helps and lightens the burden you carry.  Try it mate.  You are among friends here.

Maggie thanks. I self-diagnosed a couple of years ago and that helped. I can think of Hillsborough most of the time and handle it. But just not in April and on days like today.

[Anfield Kopite]

I was a 19 year old lad back in April 1989. I went to the semi final with my then Girlfriend Sue who was 23. We had gone together the year before and had tickets for the stand behind the Leppings lane terrace and i can still remember jumping out of my seat as Aldo struck a magnificent volley. In 1989 we hoped to get stand tickets again but this year our season tickets only entitled us to tickets for the terrace. We got onto the Leppings Lane terrace in one of the central pens at about 2.30 and we realised even then that we were going to find it difficult to stay together and arranged to meet at the entrance side of the tunnel if we got split up. I was soon a few yards away from her and by about 2.55 she told me she was scared and then i told her she would be fine although i was already worried. By the time the game kicked off i was properly seperated from her. I remember saying to myself please dont score when Peter Beardsley hit the bar. That shows how scared i was by then. Cup semi final and im begging our players not to score. The next 15 minutes were a mixture of pain and fear as i had no control of anything regarding movement and i, like everyone else in that hell hole was getting crushed. A couple of times my arm was crushed at a ridiculous angles but amazingly didnt break. I was slowly but surely getting closer to the cage like fence near the front and i knew that i would either have to somehow climb over it or i would be crushed against it. I knew the people at the front were probably dying now because a copper on the pitch side ot the fence was screaming at us to get back and there was a look on his face of absolute horror. I think it was the same copper who a few minutes earlier had stopped a lad in his teens from climbing to safety by pushing him back into the pen as he tried to escape. I was then turned around by a wave of movement and was left looking slightly to my left and noticed that a middle aged man next to me was unconscious but was standing up as he had no place to fall. I was forced to watch as he was slowly turning an awful shade of blue around the lips and i couldnt do anything to help him and all the time i was in fear of my own life as the breath was squeezed out of me. I think he was somehow passed over the railing onto the pitchside. After about 15 minutes i was thinking it is now or never and im going to have to attempt to climb over people and onto the pitch or i would pass out. Then miraculously the crowd was dispersing and i had space. I sat down on the terrace trying to get the deep breaths that my body desperately needed. Then i thought about my girlfriend and how we had arranged to meet outside the tunnel entrance and i went to look for her. In the 5 minutes or so that i couldnt find her i saw some things that  i couldnt cope with. What looked like 2 teenage lads left  lying with coats pulled over their faces and i walked over dazed but wanting to try and help. I was told by a police women to leave them as they were beyond help. I found my girlfriend just staring dazed as she watched a policeman giving C.P.R. to a guy who looked in his 20s, i dont think he made it. I had a desperate need to ring home and let my mum know i was ok. We left the ground and i knocked on the nearest door. The guy took a second to understand what i was telling him but when the penny dropped he let me in to use his phone and i will always be grateful my family didnt have the gut wrenching wait for news. We went back to our coach and the journey home was one of silence except for people quietly weeping.If i had managed to climb onto the pitch i would have probably been carrying people on hoardings and i do sometimes feel guilty that i didnt really help anybody. I know i was one of the lucky ones. I so do dearly hope that the familys of those not so lucky finally get some sort of closure tomorrow. JFT96.

[carotene]

I had been to Hillsborough twice previously. I had been in the Leppings the 1st time in a league game- I vowed that I would never step foot in that end again. The next two visits were in the North Stand at both semis. My university friend was living in Sheffield at the time of the 2nd semi and we got him a ticket for the Leppins. Prior to him going into that death trap I spen 5mins describing the layout of that terrace how to avoid the central tunnel ie go left or right immediately after leaving the turnstile. When I took my seat at 240pm I immediately noticed the central terrace was packed and panicked. At a time I can't recall now I ran to the front of the North Stand and pointed this out to a policeman but to no avail. I spent the next hour wondering if I had sent my friend to his death. Thankfully he had taken my advice and stood in an adjacent pen but then witnessed the carnage.  West Midlands police have his and my statements. I am now a practising Doctor and I cannot begin to describe the anger I feel by the sheer lack of care given by those professionals who are there to protect our fellow men. I could go on as I know you can. But please let there be some form of closure for the victims, families and all football fans today. 

[L666KOP]

On that day I was parachuting in Bridlington, and there was a load of students there as well, I knew one of the instructors quite well at the time and we used to have a scoop or two when we'd meet up, him being a scouser we got on well, even if I was a wool.
We did a couple of jumps in the morning and were due to go up again at half two, not sure why but he wouldn't go up, said he had a 'feeling' so off I went.
An hour later I met up with him in the bar, we watched in utter disbelief as the story unfolded on TV, and on the radio, he said he had a load of mates at the game.
When the first announcments of casualties came through he grabbed his canopy from the packing room, got in his car and fucked off.

Never saw him again.

[Sarah Deane]

Thanks for feeling you could share that with us, Anfield Kopite/Carotene, can't have been easy. Hopefully today you (and everyone) can get some answers.

[Anfield Kopite]

Thanks for feeling you could share that with us, Anfield Kopite/Carotene, can't have been easy. Hopefully today you (and everyone) can get some answers.

Thanks Sarah. There were a couple of things in that post of mine that i have never actually spoken about. The fact that you have taken the time to read it helps and the fact i typed it out makes me feel ive unburdened if that makes sense. Dont get me wrong, i know i was very lucky and my family did not have to go through all the crap that the familys of the not so lucky ones did. Thanks again.

[Spongebob Redpants]

I had been to Hillsborough twice previously. I had been in the Leppings the 1st time in a league game- I vowed that I would never step foot in that end again. The next two visits were in the North Stand at both semis. My university friend was living in Sheffield at the time of the 2nd semi and we got him a ticket for the Leppins. Prior to him going into that death trap I spen 5mins describing the layout of that terrace how to avoid the central tunnel ie go left or right immediately after leaving the turnstile. When I took my seat at 240pm I immediately noticed the central terrace was packed and panicked.

My story is very similar to yours .Travelled on the day of the game to Sheffield with a friend and 2 of my brothers . I'd also attended the semi-final the year before and stood on the left side wing terrace facing the pitch at the Leppings Lane end . That was the first time I'd been to Hillsborough , but it'd always stuck in my mind that as soon as you got through the gates , the tunnel leading to the central pens was directly ahead , almost as if there were no other entrances onto the terraces .Bescause of this , I'd told my brother not to enter the tunnel , but to head to the side where I'd stood the year before, which thankfully he did .

I was sat in the North Stand and could see the events developing , although unaware of the seriousness at that time.

I don't really watch or read many articles on Hillsborough anymore . I know what happened that day , and the hurt and anger just rises to the fore again whenever anything Hillsborough related is on.

I also feel guilty as well because I didn't lose anyone that day , and I wasn't close enough to witness close up the absolute horror of the event. My experience pales into nothingness compared to the people who lost loved ones or witnessed things first hand .

[MichaelA]

Thanks Sarah. There were a couple of things in that post of mine that i have never actually spoken about. The fact that you have taken the time to read it helps and the fact i typed it out makes me feel ive unburdened if that makes sense. Dont get me wrong, i know i was very lucky and my family did not have to go through all the crap that the familys of the not so lucky ones did. Thanks again.

'Unburdened' is such a powerful way of describing it for us. I hope that the families and survivors can begin to unburden themselves from today onward.

[Arthurs Bar]

""The new evidence that we're presented with today makes clear in my view that these families have suffered a double injustice: the injustice of the appalling events, the failure of the state to protect their loved ones, and the indefensible wait to get the truth, and then the injustice of the denigration of the deceased - that they were somehow at fault for their own deaths. So on behalf of the government, and indeed our country, I am profoundly sorry that this double injustice has been left uncorrected for so long."
David Cameron Sep 12 2012. Hillsborough April 15th 1989. Over 23 years.

I didn't kill my own, I didn't steal from the dead, I didn't urinate on the police, I had a ticket, I didn't drink, I went to a footy match to watch my team. Finally the PM believes me and thousands of others. Most importantly the families. Without them this would not have happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu36Ymdu56M

[Maggie May]

Please, lads.  Most of you were young.  You only came for a football match.  You faced unimaginable sights, sounds, smells and experiences which froze grown trained men.  You did nothing and have nothing of which you should feel guilt or shame.  The world has made you feel you did.  Today the world has at last been proved wrong.

 

[adamtoale]

I was 23 year old lad who went to Hillsborough as an indestructible, happily married, happy go lucky serving soldier, always up for a laugh and any mischief going.

24hrs later I had changed.  I didn’t know it, let’s face it back in 89 the idea of a serving soldier or any young lad admitting that he was having “issues” after coming out of that ground without so much as a scratch was unthinkable.  I wasn’t in the central Pens, I was comfy up in the stands, I didn’t stay there once I sussed what was happening I went down onto the pitch to help with the resuscitation efforts of those who got their shit together and released that no-one else was helping so we had to help our own.

The worst feeling of my life was knowing that the fella I was working on wasn’t going to make it, I just know that once I realised he wasn’t responding I got up to leave and go onto the next one, the two girls working on him with me wouldn’t give up, I don’t know if they knew him and to my shame I never found out who he was.  He was dead when I left him.  So with the intention of helping more I set off through the police line towards the Leppings lane, it hit me then that my cousin and mate were in those pens, I panicked I had seen the result of what could happen and our kid was only 14, not even half the size of the fella whose life had just slipped away on a football pitch for no other reason than a SYP senior officer fucked up!

I honestly can’t remember too much of what I saw down at the Leppings lane, my memory has thankfully blocked out most of the sights, unfortunately not the noise or the feeling.  It’s a heart stopping sick feeling I get every time my mind wanders and my defences drop. I know that I didn’t do enough, didn’t help enough, like so many others that should have done much, much more I froze once I was down at the Leppings lane.  I was looking into the two pens desperately searching the faces for my cousin and my mate; I think it’s those faces that caused my mind to block out so much.

I don’t have a clue how long I was down there, I just know how desperate we all where, total strangers asking each other have you seen our kid, horrible fear laden minutes, I walked along the front where a few bodies had been lay out checking to see if I knew them, I remember a photographer getting a boot up the arse as he was still taking pictures of people up against the fence.  The ambulance, help at last, but where were the fuckin rest!

Like I say I don’t know how long I was there, I walked back to the other end and climbed back into the stand, sat down next to my brother who was with me and just started crying, the last time I would cry for 20 years.  I finally found my cousin and mate, they had originally been in the central pens but moved out of them as my mate sussed it was too crowded and he felt responsible for my cousin, he would have stayed in there if he had been alone. On the long drive home, I put up a brick wall around my feelings and bottled them all up and it stayed that way until the 20th anniversary.  My marriage fell apart, my career stalled and I became a sombre untrusting fella who has spent the rest of his life up till now, we’ll I would call it drifting, not really living.

The 20th anniversary I cried that day for the first time in 20 years and it cracked the wall.  Unfortunately I didn’t see what was coming and in January this year I had a full blown breakdown.  Six months off work, basically sat at home with the curtains drawn reclusive and afraid.  I’m back on the up and back in work, back to drifting.

I am not a survivor, I wasn’t in the pens, it screwed me up so god help those that came out of the pens, I hope you all get through and we don’t lose anyone else because of 15th April 1989.

That made me cry.

[givemekaliber]

My dad (now passed) grew up with Pat Thompson. He knew him well and this is the time he was waiting for.
Pat - I never knew you but my wishes, thoughts and prayers are with you and you family. I'm sure you met with my dad as soon as he landed where you all are, sighing relief that your day has come, your day to be at peace is here. Look after my dad - he loved this club.

RIP JFT96

[Millie]

Horrible day for me today - the one person I wanted to spend it with I couldn't

[Arthurs Bar]

This thread will be open all day tomorrow should you need it mate.  Same for anyone else who needs to talk but is not sure who to talk to.

Thanks Mayo.

The vindication has lifted the burden held for 23 years. Margaret Aspinall is right, we the fans and survivors can begin to move on. But Margaret we will not give up the fight for you. The world told us we were to blame, now they know they were wrong. Maggie that was a great line.

[nozza]

Today brought everything back. I went that day with me dad and brother. We were in Leppings lane stands above the Pens. We watched it unfold right in front of us. I have blanked it out as much as i could over the years, we left at about 3.20,  I feel guilty about that, me dad grabbed us both and said lets get off.....phone home, thats what we did....we left.  I wish i would have stayed to help. We Left. We very rarely talk about that day. I feel guilty for blanking it out the way i do after today. I have vivid memories of people getting pulled onto the pitch and not being able to get to them to help.  I know non of us in them stands was as fault that day, or any other supporter in the ground there that day,  it was never our fault but I do find solace in today events. At least  today everybody knows and that makes me feel better. I feel guilty for trying to move on when i think about it,  but i have a family and a life and  consider myself lucky, 96 did not have that chance, the families and friends of those lost  have suffered so much. God Bless them and their courage and dignity.

[andywilko]

I was in what I now know was called Pen 4.  I just want to say thank you to HJC, HFSG and everyone else who worked for this day and never gave up.  I am sorry I did not get involved more over the years and will be forever grateful to those who did. 

[Shanks1965]

I try not to dramatise my things, my experiences. I was there, thats all. I cant sleep tonight. But today for the fisrt time in a long time I dont feel quite so guilty.
JFT96

[MichaelA]

I try not to dramatise my things, my experiences. I was there, thats all. I cant sleep tonight. But today for the fisrt time in a long time I dont feel quite so guilty.
JFT96

You've made me cry. You were never guilty.