Topic: Match Preview: UCL QF 1st Leg Liverpool v Man City [4 April 2018, K.O 19:45 GMT]

[Eeyore]

Two legged ties are always different probably best evidenced by Pep's record in CL knockout away games. Despite managing the likes of Barca, Bayern and City he has won only four out of 22 CL knockout away games.

I expect both teams to be a bit more pragmatic in the first leg than they normally would be. This is a huge game for both teams and both managers will be wary of giving up to many counter attacking opportunities.

[L8Craig]

If that is our starting lineup, we're done.

Who keeps Sane and Silva at bay? 
I like Trent but I think Sane is world class and would be too much for him.

[vagabond]

Who keeps Sane and Silva at bay? 
I like Trent but I think Sane is world class and would be too much for Trent.

James Milner will spend the entire game in Sane's rearview mirror if he was played at right back/ wing back.

[L8Craig]

One thing I do know is that defence is liable to our press if we get out the traps and get at them. Can’t wait now

[Keita Success]

Be interesting to see how we counter-act Ederson's distribution/ fix the clear RCB/RB vulnerability. Klopp will be very aware of it all, thankfully.

[BabuYagu]

Who keeps Sane and Silva at bay? 
I like Trent but I think Sane is world class and would be too much for him.

You want a midfield 2 against Fernandinho, Silva & De Bruyne? You want a 33 year old who got skinned by Wan-Bissaka in the only time he was at full back this weekend to face up against Sane? The same 33 year old who has been easily beaten by Aurier & Mousa Dembele this season? That would be a blood bath.

[RedForeverTT]

Our front 3 again would be the difference. If we could get an early goal, gets the crowd rocking City will be in for a big fright.

Despite what City players saying they zone out when playing, that is completely bullshit. Even Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods got affected by whistling fans.

No one does noise like Anfield.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Starting line up costs on the weekend

Liverpool £228m
Man City £398m

My setup for Wednesday

Milner against Sane?

Stop watching football all together.

[Number 7]

One of the few games I'd play Wijnaldum. Henderson and Trent's form worry me, but I'm hoping a CL night at Anfield against the best team in the league means form goes out the window. You know, I wouldn't be against having Milner in midfield on Trent's side to give him some protection. However, we're at home and probably don't need to be so reserved.

For me Can has to play. He was a big part of the reason we won against them at Anfield in the league. After he went off we kind of lost control. Really hoping he’s fit.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

For me Can has to play. He was a big part of the reason we won against them at Anfield in the league. After he went off we kind of lost control. Really hoping he’s fit.

Hopefully he is, Henderson/Can/Wijnaldum or Ox.

[stoopid yank]

Milner against Sane?

Stop watching football all together.

He does bring up a good point that TAA has been under the gun lately and has made some mistakes and is vulnerable. If Milner is not an option at RB or RWB who else is? Clyne up to speed yet? What about Ox? He played RWB for Arsenal often.

[ejaria]

You have to back TAA at this stage. No Milner or Ox. Three at the back potentially? I'm not sure, but I can't imagine an underdone Clyney can do better than TAA against Sane.

[Advil]

As much as we feel TAA is not ready to face Sane, this might be a make or break game for him. If he nullify Sane, he will be more confident against that type of winger. If he is skinned left, right and centre then Clyne will get a chance against Everton and if Clyne does well, Clyne might be given the chance to play in the secong leg.

TAA you can do it man. Just control your urge to get forward too early. If the midfield lose the ball, you sure as hell are not catching Sane if you are too far from him. On a side note, Sane is the fastest player in the league from an article that i read somewhere.

[kloppismydad]

The Anfield crowd will be the difference between a win and any other result.

If we can get the crowd roaring and backing the lads, creating absolute mayhem, then we have a great chance of getting a win. Klopp and the players will feed off the energy from the crowd and elevate themselves to another level.

I can't wait for the Anfield madness. The 12th man will play a part, that's for sure.

Oh, and I have a feeling that we'll see a Big Virgil goal.

[Advil]

Is it possible to get a clean sheet against this team? A routine 2-0 will be nice.

[BabuYagu]

Is it possible to get a clean sheet against this team? A routine 2-0 will be nice.

I remember last season we had our most entertaining 0-0 match ever against them. I believe only Wolves, Palace and Wigan have prevented them scoring this season so far. They have been kept at 1 goal on 8 occasions though. I'd take a 4-1 win if I am honest. Clean sheet would be nice but if we can get into the same 4-1 position and then not collapse this time, that would be nice

[deFacto please, you bastards]

He does bring up a good point that TAA has been under the gun lately and has made some mistakes and is vulnerable. If Milner is not an option at RB or RWB who else is? Clyne up to speed yet? What about Ox? He played RWB for Arsenal often.

How do you suppose Milner will keep up with Sane? On what planet can Milner possibly stay in front of Sane and have a good game?

He'd be in a retirement home by the end of teh match.

There is no other option. Clyne isn't going to play his first match against City.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Is it possible to get a clean sheet against this team? A routine 2-0 will be nice.

Very unlikely. I'll take a 2-1 win

[BabuYagu]

How do you suppose Milner will keep up with Sane? On what planet can Milner possibly stay in front of Sane and have a good game?

He'd be in a retirement home by the end of teh match.

There is no other option. Clyne isn't going to play his first match against City.

And all of this ignores the obvious point - if your midfield doesn't protect your defence when playing a high line, it really doesn't matter who the individuals are, they are doing to get picked off. You cannot hold a high line without pressure on the ball. And they cannot drop off if the midfield is stretched out leaving spaces behind them rather than compact in front of the defence.

Which means whoever the full back is has three options:-
1. Drop first - risk playing others onside elsewhere across the line. City did this to great effect against Cardiff having a dummy runner go first on the left sagging the line then playing a runner in on the right.
2. Push up - but you cannot push up without pressure on the ball otherwise you get easily picked off. Plus it's not the right backs call to make when to step up.
3. Hold the line - this is what TAA did at the weekend. In fact both times he had good body position and was ready to match Zaha's run. Zaha was just quicker than him over 10-20 yards having got a little momentum on him due to TAA needing to hold the line.

Now how does Milner play that scenario differently where it works out better for him? If anything he is left even more in Zaha's dust. How does Gomez - who has consistently lost runners this season on diagonal balls? How does Clyne who has not played a competitive game in almost 11 months. People expect him to walk in against one of the most explosive wingers in the world and just be instantly match sharp?

TAA's problem wasn't a lack of awareness, poor positioning, lack of pace, or anything like that. He was let down by what was going on in front of him. If our midfield decides to continue as such, we will end up replacing full backs like there is no tomorrow while we try to find one who learns how to teleport to solve the problems he is facing.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

And all of this ignores the obvious point - if your midfield doesn't protect your defence when playing a high line, it really doesn't matter who the individuals are, they are doing to get picked off. You cannot hold a high line without pressure on the ball. And they cannot drop off if the midfield is stretched out leaving spaces behind them rather than compact in front of the defence.

Which means whoever the full back is has three options:-
1. Drop first - risk playing others onside elsewhere across the line. City did this to great effect against Cardiff having a dummy runner go first on the left sagging the line then playing a runner in on the right.
2. Push up - but you cannot push up without pressure on the ball otherwise you get easily picked off. Plus it's not the right backs call to make when to step up.
3. Hold the line - this is what TAA did at the weekend. In fact both times he had good body position and was ready to match Zaha's run. Zaha was just quicker than him over 10-20 yards having got a little momentum on him due to TAA needing to hold the line.

Now how does Milner play that scenario differently where it works out better for him? If anything he is left even more in Zaha's dust. How does Gomez - who has consistently lost runners this season on diagonal balls? How does Clyne who has not played a competitive game in almost 11 months. People expect him to walk in against one of the most explosive wingers in the world and just be instantly match sharp?

TAA's problem wasn't a lack of awareness, poor positioning, lack of pace, or anything like that. He was let down by what was going on in front of him. If our midfield decides to continue as such, we will end up replacing full backs like there is no tomorrow while we try to find one who learns how to teleport to solve the problems he is facing.

Well said. When fit, Clyne is probably the best solution against such an opponent but we don't have that option right now, and Trent is currently the best we have for this match. Even if Gomez was fit, I'd rather have Trent ahead of him.

As you say, our fullbacks have to be protected and the midfield can't afford to make any mistakes against them.

[BabuYagu]

It ultimately won't matter if we don't put pressure on the ball or drop off when there is no pressure on the ball. You have to be doing one of those things.

I remember the first goal we conceded against Hoffenheim still - it was exactly the same. No pressure on the ball, defence doesn't drop off, a stationary full back getting picked off by a runner. There was a clip of exactly the same thing in pre-season training with Firmino getting in behind Moreno. Not his fault, there was just no pressure on the ball and we were holding the line - wrongly. He cannot step up alone. Or drop off as it's not his call. So he is left standing.



These sorts of runs in this gif are the ones Sane makes continuously. He holds a very high and wide starting position hoping to isolate a full back, stretch sides horizontally or be left in free for quick diagonal balls to put him in running behind the defence.

We need to be aware of that as a unit, be compact in midfield, maintain good defensive access, maintain pressure on the ball, not let De Bruyne & Silva get time, touches and their heads up and, if they do, the defence needs to be organised and drop off on queue. This will mean giving Man City space in front of the defence but that is far favourable to space in behind.

The first one isn't really his fault. The Palace player looks up, takes 5 touches with the ball and still nobody puts him under pressure. TAA cannot step up as the rest of the defence is then playing Zaha on (plus you just shouldn't try to play offside without pressure on the ball as you get picked off too easily). He also can't drop off - it isn't the rookie defenders call to make. The defence is holding a line and therefore he is stationary which allows Zaha to get a run on him.

He reacts immediately to it, he even sees that it is going to happen and positions his body well to look at both Zaha and the ball so he can set off as soon as the ball is played. But the problem there is in lack of pressure on the ball which is vital if you play a high line, and poor decision making and communication in defence.

So where does the bulk of blame go = midfield. Milner loses the ball. Henderson ends up pressing Zaha. Milner doesn't drop in well enough in the #6 role leaving a big space between the lines. Gini starts pressing the ball then retreats to get in line with Milner - arguably should have just kept pressing in the absence of anybody else but maybe he got a shout to drop back from Milner/Hendo. Hendo recovers his position well but then just stays in line with Milner rather than dropping deeper to give us depth. Milner could press the ball carrier as it's his side and Mane cannot once Hendo and Gini recover but he doesn't. Defence cannot drop as then there would be an ocean of space for Palace to play in and run at them. So they need to expose themselves and try to hold a line that they really shouldn't. Once again stuck between a rock and a hard place by poor midfield play. None of them get it right, although Milner's errors are huge in comparison to the other two.

So we have a defence needing to take risks due to inadequate protection from midfield.

The penalty was just a farce all round. Looks like Zaha simply beat him for pace as his starting position and reactions were both fine. The problem there is Henderson not getting in front of Benteke, not even getting off the ground, Matip stepping out to challenge, then deciding to not bother challenging. VVD position is fine but he needs to be the spare man there. Instead he is marking Townsend that Milner hasn't tracked. With Townsend central, Robertson could be closer to VVD to offer cover given he is the spare man on the back line now. But that is nitpicking. Again though the main problems are
1. Midfield not protecting defence on the first ball (Henderson)
2. Poor decision from Matip / Passive play in not challenging Benteke
3. Not tracking a run into the space Matip vacated (Milner)
4. Robertson not covering as the free man on the back line (very minor compared to the main three).

If our midfield is going to make mistakes like that, defenders will get picked off by runners. It is unavoidable. The solution is to solve the problems in front of them.

Here is an image clearly demonstrating that Trent hasn't learned from his "catastrophic" performance against Manchester United and that he is criminally unaware of players runs when balls are played in behind him.

His "slow learning process" ultimately costing us a penalty a necessitating the immediate return of Nathaniel Clyne into the line up, or even better, the ever reliable James Milner:



Oh wait no it doesn't.


While Trent could afford to be a couple of feet closer to Van Dijk, his overall postioning and awareness is fine, his body is open and angled to where he may need to run and he's ready to immediately break into a full sprint off his first stride to challenge Zaha for the ball.

In this situation he's actually in the best body position out all of our back line.

However a hilarious comedy of errors occur around him which I won't go into detail on, but involve Matip doing his best Lovren vs Lukaku impression, stepping out of the backline to fondle Benteke's backside, but then do nothing, only for Henderson to take over the bum fondling, just to literally stand and watch him head the ball. Karius's decision to challenge is also questionable.

There's very little he can do in that situation, he just loses a foot race.


But, I hear you cry, remember that one before hand where he ballsed it all up and Karius had to spare his blushes:



Except he didn't.

In this second situation he's unfortunately had to kill his momentum to hold a line that really shouldn't be stationary, given that there is a threat in behind and no pressure on the ball (Dick Bate does a quality session on this on youtube). However his positioning both on the pitch and with his body is fine and he's more than aware of the threat.

Believe me, as someone who grew up playing right back as I wasn't very good, Trent is more than aware of the threat in behind and is doing everything he's been taught to try and control the situation.

Ultimately, Trent is continually receiving blame for the mistakes of senior players around him. Won't go into too much detail but one glance at our midfield should be plenty to explain what went wrong.

I was going to go into a big explanation of everything that went wrong around him but I've seen Baba has done a tremendous and thorough job of that, so I won't bother.

But for the love of god lay off the kid.

Some posts from the TAA thread about this very thing yesterday. It's easy to look at TAA and say he should do better there. The reality is he is being dealt a shit hand by the midfield in front of him two weeks in a row. Second half he "looked much better" in both games. I suspect that is more down to Klopp giving his midfield a lesson stopping such situations arising. In the United game, for example, Lovren mentions that Can started getting in front of Lukaku as he should have from the start, and it solved the problem.

[Advil]

Very unlikely. I'll take a 2-1 win

2-1 is a good score. I think we are good enough to get a score draw at the Emptihad.

[Miltonred]

You need luck in these games.
We need good chances to be missed, because they will have at least a few good chances, we simply don't have the set-up to both stop them and play our game.

Now, what we do have in our favour is the reality that they will own the ball, likely 60% plus, maybe as high as 65%, at Anfield!  That means we will be playing on the counter attack, high press, focussed on dispossessing high up the field, then explosive attacks. We can do that without getting too many players ahead of the ball. Our front three between them can turn defence into a goal in a matter of seconds, and City's highline and willingness to get players ahead of the ball will help.

I can see us robbing this game from them, with two or three smash and grab goals, against the run of play.

[jckliew]

TAA,
PLease man mark Sane on your side. Do Not get on his blind side. 

[deFacto please, you bastards]

two more sleeps!

[jckliew]

For me Can has to play. He was a big part of the reason we won against them at Anfield in the league. After he went off we kind of lost control. Really hoping he’s fit.

If Can is not fit, we are in trouble in midfield

[Brain Potter]

20 years ago we played this shower twice in 4 days at Anfield scoring 10 without reply. I wish they’d fuck off back to their Peter Swales inspired shiteness. I think we’ll do what Klopp’s Dortmund did to was it Real or Barca in the 2013 semi final and blitz them .

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Some posts from the TAA thread about this very thing yesterday. It's easy to look at TAA and say he should do better there. The reality is he is being dealt a shit hand by the midfield in front of him two weeks in a row. Second half he "looked much better" in both games. I suspect that is more down to Klopp giving his midfield a lesson stopping such situations arising. In the United game, for example, Lovren mentions that Can started getting in front of Lukaku as he should have from the start, and it solved the problem.

Two things about this Babu

1.  His angle of recovery has to be better --- I can think of at least 4 times this year where we have gotten skinned in the gap between CB & TAA (mostly north south type stuff) but also some defensive third (east west crossed ball flank stuff).   While I get the midfield criticism and its impact on young scouser RB, lets not move the goal posts so much so that we suggest he could not have handled these plays --- cause he could have.

2.  Mental part of the game is relevant in assessing risk.  Almost invariable the oppositions' most dangerous players will take this gap between Trent and the CB as the most realistic place to exploit Liverpool.  Having said this, TAA's anticipation for danger needs to be more assertive.  A 5 yard sprint to cover space in the gap prevents so much. 

All goals consist of multiple errors ---- usually starting at the top and ending with the keeper.  So, apportioning blame seems odd for the midfield or TAA.  But, I will say that three of the most painful goals to watch us concede in the last 30 days have occurred because of direct balls down the middle of our defense and our RB made it too easy for dangerous attackers.

[Geppvindh's]

This game will be fought and won in bursts. We'll see plenty of tactical battles within the game between Guardiola and Klopp. I expect us to sit off their center backs and let them pass to each other but jump at their midfield every moment they get the ball, especially Fernandinho. This worked well in disrupting City's game in January and will work now too, unless Pep has a way to counter this. Obviously he will because he is a mad genius, but then so is Klopp. We'll also be pressing their defence in bursts of 5-10 minutes, hopefully causing errors. Kompany is not all that comfortable under pressure, neither is Otamendi. Arguably the most interesting tactical match in any competition this season.

3-1 tricky reds and away we go!

[Avens]

Read the part that directly follows it

Ah. Now don't I look silly.

[RogerTheRed]

Come on Redmen!!
Thought provoking op thanks.
What they do well. Keep the ball! Their passing is crisp and tidy and they are all comfortable and crisp in possession.
What we can do about it. Press, We will need to be at them from the start and knock them out of their stride. As we saw at Anfield, they lose composure and get over ambitious with their passing when pressed hard and can make mistakes.
How we hurt them. Take our chances when they make their mistakes. We need our link up play to be accurate and high tempo and finish well.
As others have said, I would happily take a narrow, low score win into the second leg. Score 1-2 more than them and limit them to no more than one and we are in this.
Can’t wait for this and hope all who go sing their hearts out for the lads, looking forward to seeing the pyro pre match 😀

[RedSamba]

is it Wednesday yet?? 

[Carra-ton]

I haven't felt this invested in a tie for a long long time. Possibly 2013/14. I can't see how we can outscore these lot over two legs.
Pep has said he doesn't want/expect a clean sheet, just wants to score goals in the first leg. So it is all caution to wind from City. Do we do that.
We need huge performances from everyone because City will be putting in their best.

[elsewhere]

Gut feeling says this will be much more defensive two matches than people think.

[Zlen]

Gut feeling says this will be much more defensive two matches than people think.

Probably.
Until the first goal is scored.
Then all hell will break loose.

[pjshaun]

Gut feeling says this will be much more defensive two matches than people think.

We don't do defense. They don't do defense. 

[elsewhere]

We don't do defense. They don't do defense. 

We will. 1-0 at Anfield and 2-2 at Ettihad.

[rocco]

Probably.
Until the first goal is scored.
Then all hell will break loose.

“Yippee Ki Yay, motherfucker"

[Red_Rich]

Saw their game at Everton on Saturday and they look frighteningly up to speed

Gonna be a tough night for us

If we can score first again and get the crowd going mental then I can imagine a win for us but they will have learned a lot from the January game

I see a score draw in the first leg

[Mister Flip Flop]

I'd take a 0-0 right now and take our chances in the second leg. I am glad we will have a referee outside of the premiership for this game as i think we've had some terrible bias against us from English refs the last couple of years in the league and we'll have a more level playing field in that regard.