Author Topic: The Hobbit  (Read 107497 times)

Offline Dr Manhattan

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #200 on: June 23, 2011, 09:57:06 pm »
Read a review about the two discs and it said it really was necessary when you see the transfer. It's helped a hell of a lot, even given how much room is on a BD. The transfers are supposed to be brilliant. I know what you mean about the green and blue colour grading. Apparently it's director approved though?

Anything is better than the previous Bluray release. Fellowship was asbymal and such a waste of money (then again, I bought it for £16, sold it for £20! Result!)

It just annoys me how you have to wait so long for this, spend £60, and then you're STILL not sure you'll have the version you want. I'm not convinced that this version will be the definitve one, and there have been so many complaints about this green tint that you just know it won't be re-released like this when the Hobbit films are finally available, so you have to buy it again.

So far I've bought every version there is, from the standard dvds to the extended dvds and then the theatrical blurays. Now I'll probably cave in and spend £60 on the extended blurays and still not be happy with the end result. I know it's picky, but I don't want to switch discs when watching a bluray. I can understand it on a dvd but no way can I say I get why I have to swap a 50gig disc with another one for one 4 hour movie. It's fucking mental, and they KNEW that people would be fucked off with it, so who makes these decisions?!

So disappointing really.
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Online Paul JH

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #201 on: June 23, 2011, 10:02:34 pm »
I know what you mean, being a bit of a Star Wars fan from childhood, with the endless releases and what to get and what not to. It's like with that, they caved in and eventually released the originals as they were when they came out bowing to fan pressure, but have now said they won't do the same for Bluray. So that will still leave people wanting a version they choose not to release (although the Special Editions, except for the end of Jedi and Mos Eisley didn't really bother me that much, the other cosmetic improvements were fine with me).

I'll probably not notice too much hopefully with this tinting issue, I havn't watched them in a while (was waiting for this set) and didn't end up watching the previous Bluray release after putting Fellowship in and being appalled at the picture transfer and selling the set not long after! Although, I have seen screenshots of the bit where Boromir picks up the ring in the snow, and the blue tint really does ruin what was a great shot. The snow is blue now!

 :-\
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Offline Dr Manhattan

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #202 on: June 23, 2011, 10:06:28 pm »
This is the best example of it, and I can't believe how much worse it is.

The top one is the theatrical bluray, the bottom one is from the extended. Sorry for the massive sizes everyone.






More here, but it's a really slow loading site/page:  http://blubrew.com/2011/06/16/the-fellowship-of-the-ring-extended-edition/
« Last Edit: June 23, 2011, 10:11:29 pm by Dr Manhattan »
I trust the King, but if we lose a few more on the trot now - he may have to step aside, and we have to purchase another manager in the middle of the season. If we are relegated, this could be the end of our ambitions to win any title the next 100 years.

Online Musketeer Gripweed

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #203 on: June 23, 2011, 10:11:34 pm »
Do the extended blurays have all the same extras as the extended DVDs? If so, I'll be buying them, green tint or not.

Gaving said that, I watched the movies the other week there again (so much easier than picking up the book again), and for the first time, I thought they actually looked a bit dated. Some of the CGI hasn't aged that well. Disn't really spoil my weekend it has to be said though. Fair cheered me up when I really needed it.

Online Paul JH

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #204 on: June 23, 2011, 11:54:24 pm »
This is the best example of it, and I can't believe how much worse it is.

Jesus, didn't think it was as bad as that! Why have they done that? Even if Jackson approved it?
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Offline Dr Manhattan

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #205 on: June 24, 2011, 12:02:19 am »
It's pretty fucking terrible, isn't it? I can't see me buying it now, based on that.

Let us know what it actually looks like when you get them anyway, as it might just look worse than it is right now.
I trust the King, but if we lose a few more on the trot now - he may have to step aside, and we have to purchase another manager in the middle of the season. If we are relegated, this could be the end of our ambitions to win any title the next 100 years.

Offline Rusty Oysterburger

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #206 on: June 24, 2011, 12:26:49 am »
First I've heard about this tint thing, it doesn't look very good at all. What's the point in it? Why has it been approved?
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Offline Gobias Industries

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #207 on: June 24, 2011, 12:38:13 am »
That tint is shocking. What the fuck were they thinking?

Offline Rusty Oysterburger

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #208 on: June 24, 2011, 12:44:21 am »
Also, Billy Boyd looks exactly like my nan in that screenshot.
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Offline Heighwayondawing

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #209 on: June 24, 2011, 01:04:55 am »
That tinting is crap.
The one most important thing that we all must remember, in case it slipped our mind, is this club is much more important and bigger than anybody. I'll never forget that and anybody that does is being a wee bit irresponsible and stupid I think because the club is more important than any one individual. The Club is, The Club.

Online Paul JH

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #210 on: June 24, 2011, 01:33:31 pm »
It's pretty fucking terrible, isn't it? I can't see me buying it now, based on that.

Let us know what it actually looks like when you get them anyway, as it might just look worse than it is right now.

Will do, should hopefully have them this weekend. I'll compare them to the Extended DVD colour wise on those scenes you highlighted.
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Offline Dr Manhattan

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #211 on: June 24, 2011, 02:30:44 pm »
Will do, should hopefully have them this weekend. I'll compare them to the Extended DVD colour wise on those scenes you highlighted.

Sound. I'd rather hear from someone's who's got them and compared them than just not buying them at all based on those screenshots, but it does look pretty ridiculous.
I trust the King, but if we lose a few more on the trot now - he may have to step aside, and we have to purchase another manager in the middle of the season. If we are relegated, this could be the end of our ambitions to win any title the next 100 years.

Offline medley

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Offline killer-heels

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #213 on: June 24, 2011, 03:20:51 pm »
Looks good from those screen shots.

Offline Dr Manhattan

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #214 on: June 24, 2011, 03:35:28 pm »
Looks good from those screen shots.

Yeah, in isolation it looks good, but compared to the theatrical release side by side it's a strange decision to add the tint.
I trust the King, but if we lose a few more on the trot now - he may have to step aside, and we have to purchase another manager in the middle of the season. If we are relegated, this could be the end of our ambitions to win any title the next 100 years.

Offline lionel_messias

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #215 on: June 24, 2011, 03:37:39 pm »
Wtf Tintin is in Lord of the Rings!?

Fucking Peter Jackson who does he thing he is, with his tinkering!






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Offline MichaelA

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #216 on: June 24, 2011, 03:58:19 pm »
Great pics, good to see McKellen in that again

And Evangaline is the perfect elf.

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Offline DanJay87

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #217 on: June 24, 2011, 04:48:50 pm »
Martin Freeman walked past me in cardiff bay of all places yesterday (must be filming more sherlock  :D)

Bloody 'ell, he really is a little Hobbit, and a bit grey...

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #218 on: June 27, 2011, 11:53:22 pm »
Picking up the boxset in the morning from the sorting office (got delivered today when I was out  :( ), will let you know what I think of the picture tomorrow night and the colour grading, if it's as extreme as it looks on the screen shots.
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Offline medley

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #219 on: June 28, 2011, 12:40:23 pm »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwcm-73kZE8

 :(

From Ken Brown, Blu-ray.com's reviewer of the LOTR EE Blu-ray discs, on the controversy: (TL;DNR: FELLOWSHIP IS GREEN)

Quote from:
I think some of the confusion and hostility in this thread is coming from combining two debates into one.
Debate #1: Jackson and Lesnie certainly re-graded portions of the film, and it's evident throughout the EE of FOTR. This has been confirmed for some time and no one should be debating the new color grading's presence on the disc. It is intentional. (As evidenced in shots like Isildur's more naturally colored face in the beginning of FOTR, and the more subdued palette in Rivendell.) Debate on this issue comes down to film revisionism, nothing more. The new color grading, though, could be (could be) completely separate from the green tint we are seeing.

Debate #2: The green/cyan overcast is a separate debate. FOTR has always been a film that uses a palette heavy in greens. However, there is a full-image green tint that appears throughout. This is not how digital color grading works, at least not as Jackson and Lesnie have employed it on two cuts of three three-plus-hour films. (Not to mention the films that followed LOTR in which Jackson relied on digital color grading.) Digital color grading is applied on a region by region basis. Up the reds in faces, up the greens in fields, darken the whites in snow, dull the blue in skies etc. The green/cyan overcast debate comes down to whether Jackson and Lesnie re-graded the film and then decided to apply an extra full-image tint to most, if not all, of their scenes. (It may not be apparent in some scenes, but if new images from a corrected transfer were issued, the differences in the predominately red and blue-cast images would suddenly be apparent. A slight green tint won't suddenly make every blue and red look green. But it will subtly alter the tone of the reds and blues being observed. Comparing shots of Gandalf vs. the Balrog in FOTR to the very same shots in TTT seems to confirm this. The fiery FOTR shots exhibit slightly different reds and oranges than the same fiery TTT shots.) Ultimately, we know that Jackson and Lesnie re-graded the film and approved all their color changes. But it's also quite possible that a green tint -separate from their new color grade and intentions - was accidentally applied to the full image at some point in the production of the retail discs. The consistency of the green overlay does suggest the very real possibility of an error. It's far from certain but, at the very least, it is, upon careful reflection, strange.

It's also important to note that the increased detail observed in screenshots and the actual image is a product of the new 2K-source transfer, not the new color grading or any green overlay. If a new transfer were issued without the green overlay, the detail and other improvements in the image would not be diminished. If anything, the improvements could possibly be more apparent.

Of all the evidence and arguments being batted around, the complete silence on the controversy from the studio and the filmmakers is the surest sign that there very well may be an error. (I'm not saying there definitely is, but if it was simply intention, logic dictates there would be a statement on the matter to clear things up before the sets, which already shipped to retailers before the controversy began to brew, hit the market.) Every e-mail I send, every call I make, either receives no response or gets a "no official statement has been issued at this time."

That said, buying the set is still a safe bet. If there is an error, I would imagine it is already being dealt with, a statement is already being prepared and a replacement program is already being planned. Again, if there is an error. No matter what, fans will receive the correct discs they are paying for -- be it the first ones they buy or replacements, if there was indeed an error.

Long story short, patience and civility is the only way to proceed. Warner isn't going to be swayed into anything by complaints. They'll do so because they won't want one of their most beloved films to be sullied by a production error. That's why they went back to the original 2K source for this transfer - to honor fans' wishes for a purer experience. Rest easy, gents. If there is an error, it will be dealt with. If there isn't, a statement will be made just the same.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2011, 12:44:35 pm by medley »
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Online Paul JH

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #220 on: June 28, 2011, 09:17:38 pm »
Well, ok, first impressions. Yes, there is a green tint, and most notably on the scenes that people have already pointed out above (the mountain shot with Boromir, the marshes with the Hobbits). One thing I don't get is that for some reason, in the marshes shot at least, it goes from green / cyan tint, to not, back again? Just one shot it doesn't seem to be there (the above tracking shot).

For me though, and this is just me, apart from the two blindingly obvious shots, if no-one had told me about the cyan tint, I would not have noticed it throughout the rest of the movie. I really wouldn't. That's not just bluster because I've bought the set, I genuinely would not have noticed. Fellowship is a primarily green / grey / blue tint all the way through anyway. I've always thought that Two Towers was mostly browns, reds. In that respect, to WHY they've done it, if it's deliberate, I think they are trying to give Fellowship it's own colour all the way through. More so than they had before.

If you're a purist, it will annoy you because you'll spot it because it's been highlighted. And it does seem strange they've done it in shots that were really crisp and clear, when Boromir picks up the ring, and it does give them a distracting colour. But honestly, hand on heart, I would not have even picked up on through the rest of the movie if I'd not read about it. It certainly doesn't show in a fair few scenes, and it doesn't in Rivendell.

Saying all that, picture quality is VASTLY better than the theatrical blurays. It really is. I tried a few scenes, Mines of Moria etc, and the detail really jumps put now. One bit I've always loved is the part where Aragorn allows Frodo to leave 'I would have gone with you to the end'. In THIS version, Aragorn's face, while grainy through the way it was shot, looks much more detailed than the theatrical bluray's. The detail in Moria, with the markings on the walls etc, is noticeably different. And the sound is immense. I usually have my surround on about 19 tops, which isn't too window shattering but loud enough. THIS I had to have on about 14, the DTS is fantastic.

So...

The cyan / green will annoy you if you let it in those scenes mentioned, but just flicking through I think it's a massive improvement on the theatrical blurays, and the picture and sound are excellent. The tint, to me anyway, isn't that noticeable throughout a lot of what I flicked through, but is there and more noticeable in certain scenes, but not in others. Not that much that it's a distraction except for that mountains scene and the marshes. Not enough to ruin it though.

EDIT - One last thing. As the above says, the blue / green tint does make other colours appear different, and if you want to see where, the scene where Gandalf drags Sam through the window. The very next cut is a dawn sunrise, pink sky and Gandalf and the Hobbits in silhoutte. On the DVD, it's a very rich pink, very colourful and deep. On these, it's very washed out, quite a lot actually, there is nowhere near the same level of colour. Which is a shame because that shot always looked great.

« Last Edit: June 28, 2011, 09:20:54 pm by Paul JH »
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Offline Dr Manhattan

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #221 on: June 28, 2011, 09:44:54 pm »
Cheers Paul.

Very interesting, and I'm still in two minds about it. The post Medley wrote before yours and what was said there makes me a little bit pissed off with it all really, as it really would help if someone would make some sort of official statement about it either way. If it is a fault then they should have apologised already and taken steps to sort it, so it makes me feel like this is intended.

I'll have to think on, because £60 isn't to be sniffed at, although I really really do want them very badly. ;D
I trust the King, but if we lose a few more on the trot now - he may have to step aside, and we have to purchase another manager in the middle of the season. If we are relegated, this could be the end of our ambitions to win any title the next 100 years.

Online Paul JH

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #222 on: June 28, 2011, 09:57:52 pm »
It is annoying that they've not said one way or the other because there is a lot of fuss about what they've done.

You'd think they would just say why they've done it, or if its an error. Picture is excellent though.
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Offline Dr Manhattan

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #223 on: June 28, 2011, 10:02:42 pm »
It is annoying that they've not said one way or the other because there is a lot of fuss about what they've done.

You'd think they would just say why they've done it, or if its an error. Picture is excellent though.

I'm not doubting the picture quality, I can already imagine how fucking awesome it is, and the reviews as far as that's concerned have backed it up. I just want them to tell us why they've done it, or say "Sorry, it's a fuck up and they'll need to be replaced". I was very much looking forward to watching them all back through, back to back, on a lazy Sunday like a massive geeky bastard, so the sooner I know either way the better.
I trust the King, but if we lose a few more on the trot now - he may have to step aside, and we have to purchase another manager in the middle of the season. If we are relegated, this could be the end of our ambitions to win any title the next 100 years.

Offline Mouth

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #224 on: June 28, 2011, 11:07:56 pm »
I've been watching them again over the last few days, doesnt matter what they have done to the bluray to fuck up the colours, they are fucking shite films when compared to the source, Tolkien must be spinning about 200 miles an hour in his grave at the butchering hack job that jackson did to his story. Almost every single characterisation has been chopped up and reversed, they stick loosely to the plot, but thats about it. To be honest I dont know how anyone who loves the books can sit and watch these films and not be pissed off at what was done, the opportunity that was lost.

It didnt really sink in when I first watched them, I was swept up with the spectacle of it all, of course there were bits that really annoyed me, the very obvious problems, Arwens expansion, Elves at Helms Deep etc. But I let go because it was LOTR and it was finally on film. I havent really watched them since then until now, and I just cant believe how bad they are, how much is really wrong with them and what a bad job of adapting the source Jackson did. He should be ashamed of himself.

I dread to think at what shit is going to be done to the Hobbit.
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Offline Dr Manhattan

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #225 on: June 28, 2011, 11:14:34 pm »
Haha! Nice one, mate. But only a massive bellend would say they're shite. You won't catch me out that easily.
I trust the King, but if we lose a few more on the trot now - he may have to step aside, and we have to purchase another manager in the middle of the season. If we are relegated, this could be the end of our ambitions to win any title the next 100 years.

Offline Mouth

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #226 on: June 28, 2011, 11:39:07 pm »
Haha! Nice one, mate. But only a massive bellend would say they're shite. You won't catch me out that easily.
I'm not joking, I really wish I was.

You read the books then watch the films, you see, you see how virtually every character is backwards.

For instance -

Boromir, although sceptical about Aragon's claim as king ultimately accepts he is who he says he is, he also would be overjoyed to have the king return, as would the people of Gondor. He is an honourable if brash man, yet in the film when he first shows up in Rivendell he is a disrespectful boorish oaf, he drops and is disrespectful of the shards of Narsil, which shouldnt even be there for fucks sake Aragorn is supposed to be carrying them. "Gondor has no king, Gondor needs no king" thats the line Boromir throws out and it is so far backwards from the intent and characterisation in the books, Gondor is crying out for the return of the kind its fading and they are a dying people. They actually live in hope that the king will return.

Aragorn, a lonely heroic figure fighting his own private war, abley bearing the weight of history and expectation of a nation upon his shoulders. His whole life is dedicated to opposing Sauron, with the hope that one day he might return and claim the throne, his worthiness or claim is never in doubt, its why the last book is called Return of the King, its about him fullfilling the destiny that he has been working towards his whole life. Yet in the films he is a whiney pussy who has foresaken his ancestry and turned his back on the idea of being king.

The Ents, jesus the Ents, they wake up and are pissed off about what Saruman has done to the forest so they go to sort him out, they dont need fucking Merry tricking them into going and seeing that loads of trees have been cut down.

The Rohirrim, there are fucking loads of them and they are a proud warrior race, not a few thousand spears and the rest are old farmers. Theoden is a close minded coward, he doesnt decide to hide in Helms Deep, with Gandalf, Aragorn and everyone telling him not to, he is in fact advised by Gandalf to hide in Helms Deep.

The list goes on and on.
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Offline Gobias Industries

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #227 on: June 28, 2011, 11:47:49 pm »
I'm doing my dissertation next year or the Lord of the Rings, or more specifically, comparing the books to the films and analysing the fan reaction to the films and differences between books and films, while referring to adaptation theory to decide ultimately if the films are successful adaptations.

To do this I'll be writing a questionnaire soon which I plan to put up on all the major LOTR fansites. I'll put one up here too and get your thoughts.

Offline medley

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #228 on: June 29, 2011, 11:48:12 am »
My mate is Sarah Harding's cousin from girls aloud, he looks a fair but like her which is a bit weird when i'm cracking one off over MTV like

Offline litliper

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #229 on: July 7, 2011, 06:11:03 pm »
"My country is the world, and my religion to do good." (Thomas Paine)

Offline litliper

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #230 on: July 8, 2011, 06:51:35 pm »
« Last Edit: July 8, 2011, 06:54:28 pm by litliper »
"My country is the world, and my religion to do good." (Thomas Paine)

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #231 on: July 8, 2011, 06:59:53 pm »
Those are growing on me.
Anyone else being strangely drawn to Dion Dublin's nipples?

Offline Gobias Industries

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #232 on: July 8, 2011, 07:36:02 pm »
There's something off about them to me. They don't like Dwarves the same way as Gimli and Gloin in LOTR did. They seem half way between Jackson's Dwarves and what I would imagine Tim Burton's Dwarves would look like.

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #233 on: July 8, 2011, 07:41:19 pm »
There's something off about them to me. They don't like Dwarves the same way as Gimli and Gloin in LOTR did. They seem half way between Jackson's Dwarves and what I would imagine Tim Burton's Dwarves would look like.
As I understand it, Gimli and Gloin were top dwarves, while these are outcasts, and without the prestige would look "poorer".
Anyone else being strangely drawn to Dion Dublin's nipples?

Offline Gobias Industries

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #234 on: July 8, 2011, 07:56:00 pm »
As I understand it, Gimli and Gloin were top dwarves, while these are outcasts, and without the prestige would look "poorer".

They don't look poorer. If anything they've got better trabs. They almost look a bit goth, hence the Burton comparison.

And they have plenty of prestige. Thorin Oakenshield is the heir to the Kingdom under the Mountain. Not "outcasts" but "exiles". He was still accepted as royalty. He's meant to have a sky blue hood, but somehow I can't see any dwarf in that company wearing anything lighter than dark, dark navy.

I just think the look of these dwarves is wrong. It seems like Jackson is doing a Batman Begins to them and making them all dark and gritty. I'll reserve further judgement until I've seen a fair bit more.

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #235 on: July 8, 2011, 08:11:25 pm »
There's something off about them to me. They don't like Dwarves the same way as Gimli and Gloin in LOTR did. They seem half way between Jackson's Dwarves and what I would imagine Tim Burton's Dwarves would look like.
I understand what you're saying. I think it's more to do with the lighting and the art design of those posters. Everything looks too tidy and exaggerated. I doubt they'll actually look like that in the film. I'm sure they'll have a more rustic and worn look to them.
« Last Edit: July 8, 2011, 08:17:20 pm by Macphisto80 »

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #236 on: July 8, 2011, 08:16:33 pm »
They don't look poorer. If anything they've got better trabs. They almost look a bit goth, hence the Burton comparison.

And they have plenty of prestige. Thorin Oakenshield is the heir to the Kingdom under the Mountain. Not "outcasts" but "exiles". He was still accepted as royalty. He's meant to have a sky blue hood, but somehow I can't see any dwarf in that company wearing anything lighter than dark, dark navy.

I just think the look of these dwarves is wrong. It seems like Jackson is doing a Batman Begins to them and making them all dark and gritty. I'll reserve further judgement until I've seen a fair bit more.

They'll look better when you see the actual actors ect and not concept art mate.

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #237 on: July 8, 2011, 08:17:48 pm »
As I understand it, Gimli and Gloin were top dwarves, while these are outcasts, and without the prestige would look "poorer".

I don't think that is Gimli. More likely to be Oin.

They look great. Hope they don't all have silly Scottish accents though.

Offline Gobias Industries

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #238 on: July 8, 2011, 08:17:57 pm »
I hope Macphisto is right.

J-mc, what do you mean? Those are the actors are they not?

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Re: The Hobbit
« Reply #239 on: July 8, 2011, 08:18:29 pm »
I hope Macphisto is right.

J-mc, what do you mean? Those are the actors are they not?

Looks like concept art to me, especially the second pic! ????