Author Topic: FSG (*)  (Read 831782 times)

Offline JCB

  • Sponsors of Digger Barnes.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,021
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8960 on: April 22, 2017, 08:28:06 am »
Or maybe we could continue calling out FSG when they don't put the Club first and make poor decisions. Strangely enough FSG are very sensitive to adverse publicity especially relating to the mood of the fans. They were quite happy plodding along with the Owl in charge until the fans started to vote with their feet. Let me think who did they replace him with oh yes the fans choice.

Likewise when there was a fan backlash after the Dempsey debacle what happened oh yes they issued the open letter to the fans and then actually got off their arse and lined up Coutinho and Sturridge for the January.

Then we have FSG trying to take the piss with £77 general admission tickets and a faster U-turn than a Tory Prime minister as soon as the fans voiced their ire.

After a net profit over the last two windows and a failure to recruit in January there has been a mood of unrest within the fan base and guess what there actually seems to be a mood within the Club to deliver in the transfer market for once.

So in other words a set of owners who have made bad decisions and then listened/reacted to the fanbase and try to learn from it. Isn't that a good thing?

For me it is pretty clear despite their initial rhetoric that FSG see LFC as a business and look to act in the interests of their investors . A set of investors who didn't want us to buy the Club in the first place and who have very little interest in LFC or indeed Football.

Didn't realise that...curious mate, where did you get that tidbit from?


For me FSG would be quite happy to tootle along in the upper reaches of the Premier League accepting the odd Chanpions League season as a bonus and watching the value of their investment grow.

So your opinion then...



For me as fans it is up to us to maintain the standards and to push the owners and to hold them to account in the same way we treat managers and players. Give a 100 percent and the fans take you to heart.

I agree !!!



So why accept owners who are holding back and who have failed to deliver and who have lacked ambition.


Again, your opinion....
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 08:35:09 am by JCB »

Online Eeyore

  • "I have no problem whatsoever stating that FSG have done a good job.".Mo Money, Mo Problems to invent. Number 1 is Carragher. Number 2 is Carragher. Number 3 is Carragher. Number 4 is Carragher. Likes to play God in his spare time.
  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,061
  • JFT 97
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8961 on: April 22, 2017, 08:40:05 am »
So in other words a set of owners who have made bad decisions and then listened/reacted to the fanbase and try to learn from it. Isn't that a good thing?

Didn't realise that...curious mate, where did you get that tidbit from?

So your opinion then...

I agree !!!

Again, your opinion....
.https://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/oct/12/liverpool-john-henry-fenway

Henry and Werner attended a presentation given by Philip Hall, an executive at Inner Circle Sports, the New York‑based merchant bankers which specialises in the takeovers of English football clubs. Inner Circle acted for Tom Hicks and George Gillett when they bought Liverpool in 2007, and for Ellis Short when he took over at Sunderland. Werner said before that meeting with Inner Circle, who would become Fenway's financial advisers on buying Liverpool, he knew very little of the club: "I had been in sports so I was aware of the EPL and its strength globally," said Werner, an Emmy award-winning Los Angeles‑based television producer. "But I didn't know the inner workings of it. I certainly knew about Manchester United."

The Liverpool chairman said that he did not at the time believe buying the football club held any appeal for Fenway, which owns the Nascar motor racing team Roush. Of the meeting with Inner Circle, Werner recalled: "I wasn't paying too much attention. Frankly I was on my BlackBerry, dealing with more pressing issues. I thought there was no way John was going to drag us into that one."

Henry, however, found Liverpool compelling, particularly the club's supporter base in east Asia.
"Ohhh-kayyy"

Offline JCB

  • Sponsors of Digger Barnes.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,021
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8962 on: April 22, 2017, 08:49:09 am »
.https://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/oct/12/liverpool-john-henry-fenway

Henry and Werner attended a presentation given by Philip Hall, an executive at Inner Circle Sports, the New York‑based merchant bankers which specialises in the takeovers of English football clubs. Inner Circle acted for Tom Hicks and George Gillett when they bought Liverpool in 2007, and for Ellis Short when he took over at Sunderland. Werner said before that meeting with Inner Circle, who would become Fenway's financial advisers on buying Liverpool, he knew very little of the club: "I had been in sports so I was aware of the EPL and its strength globally," said Werner, an Emmy award-winning Los Angeles‑based television producer. "But I didn't know the inner workings of it. I certainly knew about Manchester United."

The Liverpool chairman said that he did not at the time believe buying the football club held any appeal for Fenway, which owns the Nascar motor racing team Roush. Of the meeting with Inner Circle, Werner recalled: "I wasn't paying too much attention. Frankly I was on my BlackBerry, dealing with more pressing issues. I thought there was no way John was going to drag us into that one."

Henry, however, found Liverpool compelling, particularly the club's supporter base in east Asia.

Thanks Al, I tried googling for this but couldn't find anything.

However, this just states that Werner (one person) wasn't initially sure as he knew next to nothing about 'soccer'. However later on - I assume after some research - he seemed on board when they bought us.

Regardless, appreciate you digging this up.

Offline Groundskeeper Willie

  • Loves a good Meat Flute! Silent screaming fistpumper. Don't wake the kids! He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty chip! Mattis, den svenska pedanten! Pantless arse-barer not used to withdrawal.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,225
  • Klappa händerna när du är riktigt glad.
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8963 on: April 22, 2017, 08:59:56 am »
You know, it's weird. Sometimes I see where Al is coming from.Others like Eel and CraigDS do too. There is common ground between us.

A lot has been lost in the course of 200+ pages. A lot of things are foggy. Can we take it back a bit a and get a concrete discussion going? Is it fair to ask each and everyone who's been part of, or looking to join in, to make a few bullet points? + and -. That would give us all a solid base to start from.

I think that would be really helpful as I've seen Al make some good points, as has Eel Lobo, CraigDS , Graham Smith etc. But like I said, they seem to have been lost, and we are all over the place titting and tatting (if that is even English).

I can give it a go first, if that helps set things off. Off the top of my head (I might revise this if and when I get the time to research it more):

+ Expanded the Main Stand
+ Removed debt
+ Hired Klopp and in extension leading people in their respective fields (Kornmayer for instance)
+ Made us financially healthy
+ Merging Melwood and Kirkby, developing top of the line facilities

- Been too undecisive over the strategy rebuilding the club on the pitch (like ditching DoF plans because of Rodgers)
- The ticket price increase debacle
- Poor decisions when it comes to hiring staff (Comolli, Rodgers spring to mind)
- Not lived up to their promise of an open exchange with the fans. Started well but has fizzled out.
- Over- promoting Ian Ayre
- Not hiring experienced football people at the top when they arrived, which lead to taking an un-necessary long time to find their feet in English football.

That is off the top of my head, in the moment of writing. Anyone else care to have a go? Maybe there are some important things I've missed on both the positive and negative side.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 09:02:26 am by Groundskeeper Willie »
Love Ren & Stimpy

Online Eeyore

  • "I have no problem whatsoever stating that FSG have done a good job.".Mo Money, Mo Problems to invent. Number 1 is Carragher. Number 2 is Carragher. Number 3 is Carragher. Number 4 is Carragher. Likes to play God in his spare time.
  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,061
  • JFT 97
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8964 on: April 22, 2017, 09:05:49 am »
Thanks Al, I tried googling for this but couldn't find anything.

However, this just states that Werner (one person) wasn't initially sure as he knew next to nothing about 'soccer'. However later on - I assume after some research - he seemed on board when they bought us.

Regardless, appreciate you digging this up.

There are also the emails from the time that have been released as part of the ongoing New York law suit between Mill and the RBS that shows that the idea to buy Liverpool was primarily JWH's. The other thing is that at the time it was only Henry and Werner who held the voting rights regarding LFC.

NESV/FSG are pretty secretive but from what is out there in the press it appears that at first it was Henry and Werner who were initially involved in the day to day running of NESV/FSG with the other investors pretty much silent partners bar regular scheduled meetings with the team running NESV/FSG.

According to reports that has changed with Mike Gordon becoming involved in running FSG after he closed his hedge fund and reportedly bought a bigger stake.
"Ohhh-kayyy"

Offline El Lobo

  • Chief Suck Up. Feel his breath on your face. Toxic, pathetic, arse-faced, weaselling slimeball. RAWK Maths Genius 2022.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 54,990
  • Pretty, pretty, pretty pretty good
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8965 on: April 22, 2017, 09:06:15 am »
Hang on a minute mate isn't this summer the one we have been waiting for. The one in which FSG back the manager and Klopp gets his first choice players with the huge warchest we keep being told about by FSG's mouthpieces in the press ?

Isn't it this summer that is the pivotal one for the likes of yourself ?

 :butt

Explain Al, what part of that post you quoted suggested I was saying it wasn't a massive, pivotal summer....?

The other post, yeah great. You've done it again, completely tried to polarise something that doesn't need polarising. I've continually asked, what is it you're doing to 'push the owners'. Its all rhetoric otherwise. Do you think they read this thread....? That's the problem mate, I've asked what I think is a pretty honest question. You talk about fan unrest about Hodgson and the failed signing of Dempsey etc, about the ticket prices, and we can go back further to H&G and the 'internet terrorism' but that's the point isn't it? There isn't fan unrest right now, the vast majority see that we are moving forward, that we are improving, that we're so close to finishing top 4 with a fantastic manager, quality young squad, have expanded Anfield, are improving off the pitch. There isn't fan unrest. So again I'll ask what I think is a pretty fair question, what is it you're doing or prepared to do to 'push the owners'? Because otherwise, its bluster on a forum.

In terms of fan unrest pushing them into action for the summer, again that's just patently not true. The manager himself has said it was a mistake not to strengthen. The idea that they've decided 'we got some grief on twitter, we must spend money' is just foolish. There hasn't been fan unrest at games.

In terms of questioning the owners, we all do it. I do it, Craig does it, everyone does it. But you're incapable of debating at that level, so you have to polarise the debate into 'these people I'm debating with love FSG and think they do no wrong and are perfect' and you then just come up with that sort of rhetoric around 'I'm the one here who cares about the club, I have a ST, you don't, you're not as important as me' and start quoting Bill Shankly and that sort of thing. Again, DangerScouse has already talked about exactly the thing you are, which was questioning them at a time when they were making massive mistakes early on. You're more than welcome to go back and look at my posts, it was a disaster. It didn't make any sense, we didn't back Kenny enough at the time and ended up making odd signings which hindered him and quite probably led to him being sacked (yes, sacked). If we'd backed him with players to match the likes of Suarez, Maxi, Bellamy and Kuyt rather than the likes of Carroll, Downing and Adam then who knows where we'd be right now. But that's done, its in the past. Same with Rodgers, it was a royal fuck up to hire someone who patently didn't want a DOF and then kept over-riding him with that ridiculous 'you go, we go' transfer policy. But that's done, its in the past.

But what you're talking isn't pushing the owners, its finding fault in everything. If you think they don't back the manager, don't listen to fans, don't live up to promises, lie, are only in it for themselves, have lied about expanding the stadium, wont make decisions that help the club if it doesn't make them money, don't care about the club (and with respect, this is exactly what your posts suggest) then for me, it isn't about 'pushing the owners'. It should be, with your opinion of them, about 'pushing the owners out' and getting owners who do live up to what you want. So again mate, apart from your daily arguing against every aspect of them running the club, what is it you're actually doing or planning to do to get the owners you want, or get them to run the club how you want?
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Online Eeyore

  • "I have no problem whatsoever stating that FSG have done a good job.".Mo Money, Mo Problems to invent. Number 1 is Carragher. Number 2 is Carragher. Number 3 is Carragher. Number 4 is Carragher. Likes to play God in his spare time.
  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,061
  • JFT 97
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8966 on: April 22, 2017, 09:14:41 am »
You know, it's weird. Sometimes I see where Al is coming from.Others like Eel and CraigDS do too. There is common ground between us.

A lot has been lost in the course of 200+ pages. A lot of things are foggy. Can we take it back a bit a and get a concrete discussion going? Is it fair to ask each and everyone who's been part of, or looking to join in, to make a few bullet points? + and -. That would give us all a solid base to start from.

I think that would be really helpful as I've seen Al make some good points, as has Eel Lobo, CraigDS , Graham Smith etc. But like I said, they seem to have been lost, and we are all over the place titting and tatting (if that is even English).

I can give it a go first, if that helps set things off. Off the top of my head (I might revise this if and when I get the time to research it more):

+ Expanded the Main Stand
+ Removed debt
+ Hired Klopp and in extension leading people in their respective fields (Kornmayer for instance)
+ Made us financially healthy
+ Merging Melwood and Kirkby, developing top of the line facilities

- Been too undecisive over the strategy rebuilding the club on the pitch (like ditching DoF plans because of Rodgers)
- The ticket price increase debacle
- Poor decisions when it comes to hiring staff (Comolli, Rodgers spring to mind)
- Not lived up to their promise of an open exchange with the fans. Started well but has fizzled out.
- Over- promoting Ian Ayre
- Not hiring experienced football people at the top when they arrived, which lead to taking an un-necessary long time to find their feet in English football.

That is off the top of my head, in the moment of writing. Anyone else care to have a go? Maybe there are some important things I've missed on both the positive and negative side.

With a few caveats I think that is a pretty fair summation.
"Ohhh-kayyy"

Offline Groundskeeper Willie

  • Loves a good Meat Flute! Silent screaming fistpumper. Don't wake the kids! He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty chip! Mattis, den svenska pedanten! Pantless arse-barer not used to withdrawal.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,225
  • Klappa händerna när du är riktigt glad.
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8967 on: April 22, 2017, 09:23:03 am »
Al, I would love to hear those caveats. Like I said, there are most likely things I've missed on that list.
Love Ren & Stimpy

Offline JCB

  • Sponsors of Digger Barnes.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,021
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8968 on: April 22, 2017, 09:26:48 am »
There are also the emails from the time that have been released as part of the ongoing New York law suit between Mill and the RBS that shows that the idea to buy Liverpool was primarily JWH's. The other thing is that at the time it was only Henry and Werner who held the voting rights regarding LFC.

NESV/FSG are pretty secretive but from what is out there in the press it appears that at first it was Henry and Werner who were initially involved in the day to day running of NESV/FSG with the other investors pretty much silent partners bar regular scheduled meetings with the team running NESV/FSG.

According to reports that has changed with Mike Gordon becoming involved in running FSG after he closed his hedge fund and reportedly bought a bigger stake.

If I get some time I might try and find some of those emails, but what you've stated doesn't really imply that the investors were against it. It's pretty normal for equity holders to let the chairman and the board make these decisions unilaterally. Also just because JWH had the idea it doesn't mean that the others would be against it.....

I'll have to see what the emails said before I can agree or disagree - I'm not going to make a rash judgement without more info. Thanks for the heads up.

Offline JCB

  • Sponsors of Digger Barnes.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,021
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8969 on: April 22, 2017, 09:33:05 am »
You know, it's weird. Sometimes I see where Al is coming from.Others like Eel and CraigDS do too. There is common ground between us.

A lot has been lost in the course of 200+ pages. A lot of things are foggy. Can we take it back a bit a and get a concrete discussion going? Is it fair to ask each and everyone who's been part of, or looking to join in, to make a few bullet points? + and -. That would give us all a solid base to start from.

I think that would be really helpful as I've seen Al make some good points, as has Eel Lobo, CraigDS , Graham Smith etc. But like I said, they seem to have been lost, and we are all over the place titting and tatting (if that is even English).

I can give it a go first, if that helps set things off. Off the top of my head (I might revise this if and when I get the time to research it more):

+ Expanded the Main Stand
+ Removed debt
+ Hired Klopp and in extension leading people in their respective fields (Kornmayer for instance)
+ Made us financially healthy
+ Merging Melwood and Kirkby, developing top of the line facilities

- Been too undecisive over the strategy rebuilding the club on the pitch (like ditching DoF plans because of Rodgers)
- The ticket price increase debacle
- Poor decisions when it comes to hiring staff (Comolli, Rodgers spring to mind)
- Not lived up to their promise of an open exchange with the fans. Started well but has fizzled out.
- Over- promoting Ian Ayre
- Not hiring experienced football people at the top when they arrived, which lead to taking an un-necessary long time to find their feet in English football.


That is off the top of my head, in the moment of writing. Anyone else care to have a go? Maybe there are some important things I've missed on both the positive and negative side.

Aren't these essentially the same thing
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 09:38:54 am by JCB »

Offline Groundskeeper Willie

  • Loves a good Meat Flute! Silent screaming fistpumper. Don't wake the kids! He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty chip! Mattis, den svenska pedanten! Pantless arse-barer not used to withdrawal.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,225
  • Klappa händerna när du är riktigt glad.
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8970 on: April 22, 2017, 10:00:05 am »
I guess so. It was a spontaneous post so didn't think it through that much, just typed what popped in to my head.

For me though, that's a big part of where they have failed the most. With the right appointments from the start, or even second attempt, we would be further along today. Imo of course.
Love Ren & Stimpy

Offline Jake

  • Fuck VAR
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,120
  • Fuck VAR
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8971 on: April 22, 2017, 10:05:49 am »
Great post GW - and I'd say other than the lack of dialogue, the rest are all forgivable because they've fixed the problems or changed their stance. Which is why I can't fathom why Al et al hate them so much.
I'm not vaccinated against covid and ... I don't wear masks.

Offline El Lobo

  • Chief Suck Up. Feel his breath on your face. Toxic, pathetic, arse-faced, weaselling slimeball. RAWK Maths Genius 2022.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 54,990
  • Pretty, pretty, pretty pretty good
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8972 on: April 22, 2017, 10:07:39 am »
I guess so. It was a spontaneous post so didn't think it through that much, just typed what popped in to my head.

For me though, that's a big part of where they have failed the most. With the right appointments from the start, or even second attempt, we would be further along today. Imo of course.

I think the idea was right, just the execution was wrong. Comolli in hindsight was a fuck up, but it wasn't like the idea behind hiring him was wrong.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Sir Psycho Sexy

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 21,425
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8973 on: April 22, 2017, 10:18:29 am »
I guess so. It was a spontaneous post so didn't think it through that much, just typed what popped in to my head.

For me though, that's a big part of where they have failed the most. With the right appointments from the start, or even second attempt, we would be further along today. Imo of course.
True, but a part of this comes down to luck/timing. When they came in and hired then fired Kenny, the options available to us to replace him weren't great. Thankfully, we then had the opportunity to get Klopp while no one else were in need of his services. We couldn't have got Klopp from the start. If we didn't go fr Rodgers I'm not sure who we would have went for. The other recruitments though can be questioned a lot more though
I would honestly let Wijnaldum jizz in my face right now

Offline NaivetyinBlack

  • Suffers from performative anxiety.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,018
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8974 on: April 22, 2017, 10:18:32 am »
Damn emails. He really is Donald Drumpf of RAWK.

Anyway, interesting post, GW. I would just like to state that Rodgers wasn't a bad decision. Aside for a calamitous end, we could have had our greatest season in more than 2 decades under him. Will always respect him for that. Plus, the way we play now is just an extension of the way we played under Brendan. The foundations of a pressing, high intensity game were already there when Klopp arrived.

Offline JCB

  • Sponsors of Digger Barnes.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,021
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8975 on: April 22, 2017, 10:20:34 am »
I guess so. It was a spontaneous post so didn't think it through that much, just typed what popped in to my head.

For me though, that's a big part of where they have failed the most. With the right appointments from the start, or even second attempt, we would be further along today. Imo of course.

Didn't mean to be critical. Was more a case of helping to refine the list. A bit like George Carlin does with the Ten Commandments  :D

Can't think of many others - and I've tried - without them falling in to one of these categories, i.e expanding commercial revenue.

Edit: You could argue not putting more money upfront to purchase players, that is totally subjective and relative. Some will say they have others won't
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 10:23:33 am by JCB »

Online Eeyore

  • "I have no problem whatsoever stating that FSG have done a good job.".Mo Money, Mo Problems to invent. Number 1 is Carragher. Number 2 is Carragher. Number 3 is Carragher. Number 4 is Carragher. Likes to play God in his spare time.
  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,061
  • JFT 97
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8976 on: April 22, 2017, 10:20:38 am »
Al, I would love to hear those caveats. Like I said, there are most likely things I've missed on that list.

Don't blame me if it goes off on a tangent though. ;D

1. If FSG had paid for the Main Stand and waited for repayment.
2. Debt we have never been debt free under FSG. Compared to H&G it is obviously much much lower and more manageable. The thing is thought that came about because FSG were forced to do it as part of the BARCap process.
3. Made us financially healthy, firstly we always were self sustainable it was only H&G leveraging the debt that changed that. Secondly the last accounts were pretty grim, with a ridiculous wage bill and us actually posting a loss.

Overall though they have been very solid at running the business side and the latest couple of big hitters should improve that even further.

The merging of Melwood and Kirkby is a real positive.

It is the Football side that I find the most irritating though. They actually have great ideas. I completely agree with a structure that makes us less reliant on individuals, recruiting young hungry players makes perfect sense, bringing through are own talent is a great idea. They get so much right but then fail to deliver.

For me it comes down to not having the Football acumen to translate those ideas into a reality. So bring it in. Look at Levy at Spurs he was smart enough to bring in experienced people like Comolli, Arnessen etc and then soaked up their knowledge like a sponge.

If Gordon is going to be their man in Liverpool then fine but get experienced Football men in and learn from them.
"Ohhh-kayyy"

Offline El Lobo

  • Chief Suck Up. Feel his breath on your face. Toxic, pathetic, arse-faced, weaselling slimeball. RAWK Maths Genius 2022.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 54,990
  • Pretty, pretty, pretty pretty good
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8977 on: April 22, 2017, 10:21:19 am »
Damn emails. He really is Donald Drumpf of RAWK.

Anyway, interesting post, GW. I would just like to state that Rodgers wasn't a bad decision. Aside for a calamitous end, we could have had our greatest season in more than 2 decades under him. Will always respect him for that. Plus, the way we play now is just an extension of the way we played under Brendan. The foundations of a pressing, high intensity game were already there when Klopp arrived.

It was a bad decision to have the idea of a young coach with a DOF, then hire a young coach who didn't want a DOF and THEN put in place a structure where we had this stupid transfer committee over-ruling each other and signing players the manager had no intention of playing.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Online Eeyore

  • "I have no problem whatsoever stating that FSG have done a good job.".Mo Money, Mo Problems to invent. Number 1 is Carragher. Number 2 is Carragher. Number 3 is Carragher. Number 4 is Carragher. Likes to play God in his spare time.
  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,061
  • JFT 97
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8978 on: April 22, 2017, 10:29:13 am »
Damn emails. He really is Donald Drumpf of RAWK. 

Have you read the emails ?
"Ohhh-kayyy"

Online Eeyore

  • "I have no problem whatsoever stating that FSG have done a good job.".Mo Money, Mo Problems to invent. Number 1 is Carragher. Number 2 is Carragher. Number 3 is Carragher. Number 4 is Carragher. Likes to play God in his spare time.
  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,061
  • JFT 97
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8979 on: April 22, 2017, 10:31:46 am »
It was a bad decision to have the idea of a young coach with a DOF, then hire a young coach who didn't want a DOF and THEN put in place a structure where we had this stupid transfer committee over-ruling each other and signing players the manager had no intention of playing.

Have to agree they have the right ideas it's just the implementation that is lacking for me. If for instance they had brought in an experienced DoF and then allowed him to have a major say in the choice of Coach then you have a much healthier model because everyone has a vested interest in being successful.
"Ohhh-kayyy"

Offline Groundskeeper Willie

  • Loves a good Meat Flute! Silent screaming fistpumper. Don't wake the kids! He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty chip! Mattis, den svenska pedanten! Pantless arse-barer not used to withdrawal.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,225
  • Klappa händerna när du är riktigt glad.
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8980 on: April 22, 2017, 11:07:21 am »
I already sense a discussion in a more sensible way.

They should make me a mod. 😀

Hallelujah red brothers.
Love Ren & Stimpy

Offline Groundskeeper Willie

  • Loves a good Meat Flute! Silent screaming fistpumper. Don't wake the kids! He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty chip! Mattis, den svenska pedanten! Pantless arse-barer not used to withdrawal.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,225
  • Klappa händerna när du är riktigt glad.
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8981 on: April 22, 2017, 11:10:29 am »
Didn't mean to be critical. Was more a case of helping to refine the list. A bit like George Carlin does with the Ten Commandments  :D

Can't think of many others - and I've tried - without them falling in to one of these categories, i.e expanding commercial revenue.

Edit: You could argue not putting more money upfront to purchase players, that is totally subjective and relative. Some will say they have others won't

Appreciated. And I do think you are right about it.
Love Ren & Stimpy

Online Billy The Kid

  • Out of the closet with a whiet shirt on, but would pay a fiver not to be gay...Would prefer to give his manliness to someone rather than receive theirs especially Amir in another life.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,939
  • I'm Your Huckleberry
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8982 on: April 22, 2017, 11:56:24 am »
Have you read the emails ?

Genuine question:

Why do you always post in this thread? And only this thread? Why is it you rarely venture into any other of the hundreds of threads on the forum? Why is it always this one? Day after day after day? Page after page after page? How come your sole contribution to RAWK is to continuously and routinely harp on about FSG and only FSG?

A fair few of us come onto the forum daily. I'm one of them. We post in General sport, off topic, media and arts, current affairs etc etc. We're sad c*nts like, but at least we spread our sadness around the forum. You on the other hand seem to be a different case. You seem to be obsessed with this thread and only this thread. It's just a bit.......well........kind of odd.
When overtaken by defeat, as you may be many times, remember than mans faith in his own ability is tested many times before he is crowned with final victory. Defeats are nothing more than challenges to keep trying.” – Napoleon Hill.

Offline JCB

  • Sponsors of Digger Barnes.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,021
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8983 on: April 22, 2017, 12:04:45 pm »
I already sense a discussion in a more sensible way.

They should make me a mod. 😀

Hallelujah red brothers.

I give it a day at most, then it will subside back into mayhem.

Online Eeyore

  • "I have no problem whatsoever stating that FSG have done a good job.".Mo Money, Mo Problems to invent. Number 1 is Carragher. Number 2 is Carragher. Number 3 is Carragher. Number 4 is Carragher. Likes to play God in his spare time.
  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,061
  • JFT 97
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8984 on: April 22, 2017, 12:08:10 pm »
Genuine question:

Why do you always post in this thread? And only this thread? Why is it you rarely venture into any other of the hundreds of threads on the forum? Why is it always this one? Day after day after day? Page after page after page? How come your sole contribution to RAWK is to continuously and routinely harp on about FSG and only FSG?

A fair few of us come onto the forum daily. I'm one of them. We post in General sport, off topic, media and arts, current affairs etc etc. We're sad c*nts like, but at least we spread our sadness around the forum. You on the other hand seem to be a different case. You seem to be obsessed with this thread and only this thread. It's just a bit.......well........kind of odd.

There is a decent debate going on mate.... can we just stick to that.
"Ohhh-kayyy"

Online Eeyore

  • "I have no problem whatsoever stating that FSG have done a good job.".Mo Money, Mo Problems to invent. Number 1 is Carragher. Number 2 is Carragher. Number 3 is Carragher. Number 4 is Carragher. Likes to play God in his spare time.
  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,061
  • JFT 97
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8985 on: April 22, 2017, 12:08:54 pm »
I give it a day at most, then it will subside back into mayhem.

Hopefully we can just keep to debating the issues.
"Ohhh-kayyy"

Offline JCB

  • Sponsors of Digger Barnes.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,021
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8986 on: April 22, 2017, 12:09:32 pm »
Genuine question:

Why do you always post in this thread? And only this thread? Why is it you rarely venture into any other of the hundreds of threads on the forum? Why is it always this one? Day after day after day? Page after page after page? How come your sole contribution to RAWK is to continuously and routinely harp on about FSG and only FSG?

A fair few of us come onto the forum daily. I'm one of them. We post in General sport, off topic, media and arts, current affairs etc etc. We're sad c*nts like, but at least we spread our sadness around the forum. You on the other hand seem to be a different case. You seem to be obsessed with this thread and only this thread. It's just a bit.......well........kind of odd.

That's a bit harsh on Al.

I see him on other threads quite a bit. Granted here more than anywhere else.

Offline liverpool185

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 948
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8987 on: April 22, 2017, 02:23:30 pm »
Hopefully we can just keep to debating the issues.

There isn't any debate in this thread what so ever and the so called ''issues'' have been done to death already and the only thing you have left to attack FSG on is the prices of hot dogs and beers, scraping the barrel big time.

You won't accept anyone else's views on FSG and will not accept when you get something wrong, every time you post in here you feel you are 100% right. The only people i see debating in this thread is everyone bar you.

Even when posters have posted quote's from various managers of this club, you won't have any of it and end up calling our managers ''liars'' and they are talking nonsense.

Anything FSG do will never make you happy, they could spend hundred of millions in the summer and you still won't be happy with something. This thread deserves a slow death because since January it has been full of nonsense and most of it has been from yourself.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 02:28:00 pm by liverpool185 »
David Moyes, a woman beater without actually beating a woman.

Offline El Lobo

  • Chief Suck Up. Feel his breath on your face. Toxic, pathetic, arse-faced, weaselling slimeball. RAWK Maths Genius 2022.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 54,990
  • Pretty, pretty, pretty pretty good
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8988 on: April 22, 2017, 02:34:25 pm »
Have to agree they have the right ideas it's just the implementation that is lacking for me. If for instance they had brought in an experienced DoF and then allowed him to have a major say in the choice of Coach then you have a much healthier model because everyone has a vested interest in being successful.

To be fair if Comolli (who is/was experienced) had a say in the choice of coach and that choice of coach would have been someone other than Kenny, there would have been uproar.

Kennys success in that first six months really backed them into a corner somewhat and looks like it led to quite a few of the mistakes which were made in those first few years, and they really did set us back more than we already had been.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Jake

  • Fuck VAR
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,120
  • Fuck VAR
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8989 on: April 22, 2017, 02:46:05 pm »
Al did you just praise Levy for bringing in Commoli? I'm sure in this thread you've used bringing in the same man as a negative for fsg? I may be misremembering and I'm on my phone so too fiddly to track back.
I'm not vaccinated against covid and ... I don't wear masks.

Offline ollick

  • Huge Dick..and a Big Knob too!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,624
  • Arghhhh
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8990 on: April 22, 2017, 03:00:10 pm »
Aren't these essentially the same thing

I took the latter one to mean financially healthy in that we have increased our commerical income.
Why do people quote other people for the sigs?  What' the point?

Offline ianburns252

  • RAWK Economist not the MP spelling and Crosby background differentiate
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,318
  • Gentleman in the streets; freak in the spreadsheet
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8991 on: April 22, 2017, 03:04:04 pm »
Yeah, there has been more than one occassion where Al has been critical of our appointment of Comolli.

I kind of get where he is coming from here though... I think. From my perspective, when Levy appointed him at Spurs he had a very tight remit and Levy took the opportunity to grind every bit of knowledge from him that he could in addition to what he had learned over the preceding years whereas when we got our hands on him he was almost the be all and end all of our football brain and so he was ill suited to the role he had here.

At least, that is how I see what Al is saying. The way this thread has been he could also have dropped a shit load of acid and be flying with unicorns while the rest of us lay about in an opium fueled dream where when John Lennon wrote Imagine it was actually about the day this thread was closed for good.

Offline Groundskeeper Willie

  • Loves a good Meat Flute! Silent screaming fistpumper. Don't wake the kids! He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty chip! Mattis, den svenska pedanten! Pantless arse-barer not used to withdrawal.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,225
  • Klappa händerna när du är riktigt glad.
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8992 on: April 22, 2017, 04:19:33 pm »
Personally, I wouldn't use Levy as an example of how to run a football club. How many managerial changes has he delivered the last 15 years or however long he's been there? He's been all over the place in my opinion. Kind of like Liverpool since the chancers.

Granted, I'm not that read up on Tottenham and their strategy but the above suggests there hasn't been much of that.

They do seem to have a good thing going the last 5 years or whatever so maybe something's changed there. I do think they've had quite a bit of luck stumbling on Poch too. Maybe he's the catalyst for something big happening there. Much like maybe Klopp is for us.

Maybe sometimes it takes a truly special person to set in motion an earth shattering rebirth of a club, no matter what your fancy philosophy or strategy is. History has taught us that.

Love Ren & Stimpy

Offline Garrus

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,849
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8993 on: April 22, 2017, 05:52:20 pm »
Personally, I wouldn't use Levy as an example of how to run a football club. How many managerial changes has he delivered the last 15 years or however long he's been there? He's been all over the place in my opinion. Kind of like Liverpool since the chancers.

Granted, I'm not that read up on Tottenham and their strategy but the above suggests there hasn't been much of that.

They do seem to have a good thing going the last 5 years or whatever so maybe something's changed there. I do think they've had quite a bit of luck stumbling on Poch too. Maybe he's the catalyst for something big happening there. Much like maybe Klopp is for us.

Maybe sometimes it takes a truly special person to set in motion an earth shattering rebirth of a club, no matter what your fancy philosophy or strategy is. History has taught us that.
I agree. Spurs are in good shape now, but it wasn't too long ago that we tonked them 5-0 at their place and then they hired Tactics Tim.

They've hired a great manager, found a striker who will go on to become one of their best ever in their academy and spent prudently on Alderweireld, Dier, Wanyama and Alli. There's been a lot of dross for big money too.

I fancy us to become CL regulars and title challengers as long as we keep Klopp and keep up our recent record of adding quality first teamers each season.

Offline Ipcress

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Kopite
  • ******
  • Posts: 816
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8994 on: April 22, 2017, 05:57:53 pm »
Personally, I wouldn't use Levy as an example of how to run a football club. How many managerial changes has he delivered the last 15 years or however long he's been there? He's been all over the place in my opinion. Kind of like Liverpool since the chancers.

Granted, I'm not that read up on Tottenham and their strategy but the above suggests there hasn't been much of that.

They do seem to have a good thing going the last 5 years or whatever so maybe something's changed there. I do think they've had quite a bit of luck stumbling on Poch too. Maybe he's the catalyst for something big happening there. Much like maybe Klopp is for us.

Maybe sometimes it takes a truly special person to set in motion an earth shattering rebirth of a club, no matter what your fancy philosophy or strategy is. History has taught us that.

I think that you're right. The Spurs owners have been in place for 19 years, yet the catalyst for sustained on the pitch performances has been the appointment of Poch. However, to give it a sense of perspective, even then they haven't matched the heights of LFC success under FSG. With the appointment of Klopp already FSG are ahead of the Spurs model by at least 8 years.
The sort of people that seek power, are exactly the sort that should be kept away from it.

Online Eeyore

  • "I have no problem whatsoever stating that FSG have done a good job.".Mo Money, Mo Problems to invent. Number 1 is Carragher. Number 2 is Carragher. Number 3 is Carragher. Number 4 is Carragher. Likes to play God in his spare time.
  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,061
  • JFT 97
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8995 on: April 22, 2017, 06:08:28 pm »
Yeah, there has been more than one occassion where Al has been critical of our appointment of Comolli.

I kind of get where he is coming from here though... I think. From my perspective, when Levy appointed him at Spurs he had a very tight remit and Levy took the opportunity to grind every bit of knowledge from him that he could in addition to what he had learned over the preceding years whereas when we got our hands on him he was almost the be all and end all of our football brain and so he was ill suited to the role he had here.


That is it exactly. For me Levy has taken on board Comolli's preference for players with very good physical attributes. He cottoned on that Comolli has questionable judgement but he also had very good contacts. Levy bled him dry and then spat him out.

With us it was more to do with JWH and Comolli being numbers people.
"Ohhh-kayyy"

Online Eeyore

  • "I have no problem whatsoever stating that FSG have done a good job.".Mo Money, Mo Problems to invent. Number 1 is Carragher. Number 2 is Carragher. Number 3 is Carragher. Number 4 is Carragher. Likes to play God in his spare time.
  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,061
  • JFT 97
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8996 on: April 22, 2017, 06:13:21 pm »
I think that you're right. The Spurs owners have been in place for 19 years, yet the catalyst for sustained on the pitch performances has been the appointment of Poch. However, to give it a sense of perspective, even then they haven't matched the heights of LFC success under FSG. With the appointment of Klopp already FSG are ahead of the Spurs model by at least 8 years.

Look at where Spurs were 19 years ago though under Levy they have gone from a lower mid table team, to a mid table team, to an upper mid table to a team that challenges year in year out for the CL places all with a much smaller budget than their peers.

As for a comparison with ourselves their average finishing position has been much better than ours since FSG arrived and with a much smaller income and a much smaller wage bill.
"Ohhh-kayyy"

Offline Ipcress

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Kopite
  • ******
  • Posts: 816
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8997 on: April 22, 2017, 06:51:22 pm »
Look at where Spurs were 19 years ago though under Levy they have gone from a lower mid table team, to a mid table team, to an upper mid table to a team that challenges year in year out for the CL places all with a much smaller budget than their peers.

As for a comparison with ourselves their average finishing position has been much better than ours since FSG arrived and with a much smaller income and a much smaller wage bill.

So would they have done better if the owners invested more in the playing staff and appointed someone like Poch sooner? Also, they haven't expanded the stadium after 19 years and now that they are, how are they financing it?
The sort of people that seek power, are exactly the sort that should be kept away from it.

Offline John C

  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 42,210
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8998 on: April 22, 2017, 06:52:34 pm »
Genuine question:

Why do you always post in this thread? And only this thread? Why is it you rarely venture into any other of the hundreds of threads on the forum? Why is it always this one? Day after day after day? Page after page after page? How come your sole contribution to RAWK is to continuously and routinely harp on about FSG and only FSG?

A fair few of us come onto the forum daily. I'm one of them. We post in General sport, off topic, media and arts, current affairs etc etc. We're sad c*nts like, but at least we spread our sadness around the forum. You on the other hand seem to be a different case. You seem to be obsessed with this thread and only this thread. It's just a bit.......well........kind of odd.
You've been one of my fav posters over the years mate, you know that  :wave  but it's not unknown that other stuff goes on behind the scenes on RAWK and Al is part of some important stuff :)

I'm not agreeing with his stance in this thread, just sayin :)

Offline the 92A

  • Alberto Incontidor. Peneus. Phantom Thread Locker. Mr Bus. But there'll be another one along soon enough. Almost as bad as Jim...
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,029
Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #8999 on: April 22, 2017, 07:15:37 pm »
Genuine question:

Why do you always post in this thread? And only this thread? Why is it you rarely venture into any other of the hundreds of threads on the forum? Why is it always this one? Day after day after day? Page after page after page? How come your sole contribution to RAWK is to continuously and routinely harp on about FSG and only FSG?

A fair few of us come onto the forum daily. I'm one of them. We post in General sport, off topic, media and arts, current affairs etc etc. We're sad c*nts like, but at least we spread our sadness around the forum. You on the other hand seem to be a different case. You seem to be obsessed with this thread and only this thread. It's just a bit.......well........kind of odd.
Al's contribution to the site isn't always public but he's been involved in some important fights that aren't always publicised.
Still Dreaming of a Harry Quinn