Author Topic: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30  (Read 17982 times)

Offline hesbighesred

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Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« on: September 11, 2019, 10:11:35 am »
Liverpool Vs Newcastle United at Anfield, Kick-Off 12:30pm
Ref: Andre Marriner

Liverpool against Newcastle is a preview that almost writes itself, doesn't it? A harking back to what you might call the last throes of naivety in the premier league. A time when owners could plausibly bankroll a team to the top of the league on the basis of a fortune made domestically alone, and when two teams could, in successive seasons, attack each other to a succession of 4-3s with barely a defender to be seen. And sure, we’ve had echoes of those days since then, in our ill-fated run to the runner’s up spot under Rodgers, in Leicester City’s almost certainly never to be repeated mission impossible (both not entirely coincidentally driven by a core of British players helped along the way by more domestic penalties in two seasons than Klopp’s had in his entire Premier League career so far) and even in the likes of Delia Smith getting her beloved Norwich promoted to the top division.

But the top division is, nevertheless, a very different animal now.

Off the field, the old owners are all but gone – no more Walkers, Halls or Moores. In their place are a mixture of international investment consortia, career asset-strippers who leverage debt to skim profits, with even reputation-laundering oligarchs rapidly being displaced by reputation-laundering countries seeking to use oil wealth to not only lubricate public perceptions but also to add trophies in the world’s biggest sport to their achievements in perhaps the plutocracy’s favourite passtime of all: extravagantly worthless dick-measuring.

On the field, however, you could argue that things have never been better. I don’t watch Liverpool – or any team – these days with any sense of nostalgia for the late 80s/early 90s football that I cut my teeth on. What I see these days are well-drilled, well-coached, tactically efficient and supremely fit teams in a range of leagues and at a range of levels. Just look at Kosovo last night – a decent system with the confidence to play it, a disparity in quality clear, but plenty enough about them that an England side from previous generations, lacking the kind of extreme penetration provided by Sterling and Sancho, might have ended up on the losing side. England have certainly lost to worse and, under Hodgson, have actively looked to play worse. The possible extinction of dinosaurs like him is a theme I’ll return to but for now, instead of looking back at the glory days of this fixture (and for Liverpool fans, there’s an Everton centenary DVD’s worth of highlights from the last 20 years of this match up alone) I’d like to go back to the moment that inspired me to take on this preview in the first place. A moment that, in my mind, simultaneously sums up much of what I hate about football, while also serving as a fantastic reminder of how far Liverpool have come in a relatively short space of time.

I’m talking about that goal. That fucking beach ball goal. A goal, deflected in, off a fucking beach ball.

That that goal was allowed to stand without at least a minor inquest into the state of Premier league refereeing really tells you almost all you need to know about Premier League refereeing. And unlike the football, the refereeing has, if anything,  got worse from what should have been an approach-changing nadir. But no. An admittedly little used but nonetheless obvious, basic and interpretation-free rule that all referees should be able to judge and apply without a second’s hesitation was, completely inexplicably, ignored. But that wasn’t all that pissed me off about it. No. What really rubbed salt into the wound for me was the reaction of the then Sunderland and now Newcastle (and doesn’t that combination of clubs suggest a little something about what actually motivates this particular Football Man (TM)) manager, Steve Bruce, in suggesting that knowledge of such a rule would constitute a level of geekery that a Football Man couldn’t be expected to be reduced to.

Well fuck you, Bruce. Fuck you for not knowing the rules of a game that’s made you a millionaire (many times over if you’ve invested it wisely), and fuck you even more for wearing your ignorance about it as a badge of pride instead of just acknowledging that you got the mother of all lucky strokes to win that game.

The rawness I still feel about that incident can perhaps be explained if you look at my post history from that last year of Rafa’s. What you’d read is indicative of a young(er) man who’d invested too much of himself into this forum and this club, spending too much of my time fighting a losing battle against those I perceived to be against Rafa, and taking a lot of posts from a lot of sound posters far too personally, as if it were me they were attacking rather than a man who genuinely deserves that Football Man (TM) description so readily applied to mediocrities like Bruce. Mediocrities who have spent their entire career stealing a living based entirely on their jobs-for-the-boys connections within the game.

In Newcastle now, we can see something of the future that we managed to escape through a combination of passionate fans, concerted campaigning, a sleeping-giant of a brand and no small amount of luck. No-one should have any reason to dislike Newcastle or, more importantly, the kind of club and the kind of football that they represent. It does not feel like any kind of progress or justice to have a club like that owned by the worst kind of throwback to the early days of the Premier League – a ‘self-made-man’ of no substance, a fortune built on aggression, cost-cutting and who knows what else behind the scenes, now having found himself utterly out of his depth as a wannabe piranha among the real sharks of the international waters, doing everything he can to ensure that it’s the club, rather than he, who suffers the ill-effects of his hubris. Newcastle deserve better than Ashley, and they certainly deserve better than to have probably the best manager they could ever have hoped for in those circumstances – Rafa Benitez – eased out and replaced by a manager who doesn’t even know the rules of the game. We know something of that, of course, when Rafa was replaced by Hodgson. We know how it feels to look at the future of the club and feel no optimism at all, no direction to go but down, and without even some vague consolation of promoting youth from within or building some progressive style of play that we could build an identity around.

Bruce, like Hodgson, has no interest in doing any of these things. He has no interest in really learning how to coach a team to make it greater than the sum of its parts, no interest in learning what makes players and a squad tick and developing a mentality that can see them bridge at least some of the gap in quality that they’ll inevitably face. No interest in forensically scrutinising the strengths and weaknesses of an opponent in order to develop a game plan that might just bag an unexpected victory. No. Bruce’s entire MO for a club still dreaming of Keegan’s glory days, for a club that remembers having Bobby Robson propelling a clutch of developing young players to the heights of the division, for a club that hasn’t stopped grieving Rafa’s departure, is to set them up in two banks of four and try to frustrate the opposition, for which every point fortunately gained against a Chelsea will be more than balanced by the three consistently lost against teams around them that, while light years away from the top two, are nevertheless far more sophisticated than the dross Bruce’s teams were playing last time he could lay claim to anything resembling a genuine achievement.

So fuck him, and fuck Ashley too. I’ll be delighted at their inevitable relegation, and I can only hope that it continues to destroy what little reputation they and men like them have within the game, and that it continues to encourage clubs like Watford, Brighton (with respect to Chris Hughton who, if a traditionalist in terms of his approach, does seem like a genuinely decent man with a lot of love for the game) and Southampton to take more imaginative approaches to competing than just bringing in another ‘safe pair of hands’ from a merry-go-round of mediocrity that never brings anything other than the same pay offs to the same players and agents and managers who have long since stopped doing anything worthy of the earning of such money.
But Newcastle? As a club and as a fanbase? I sincerely hope they can start again and rebuild, with an ownership structure that respects the club and a managerial team who understand what a gift they have been given in that club, and what potential there would be to build a real team for, ahem, real Football People (TM).

As for Liverpool, well, we’ve got to be thankful, haven’t we? The Newcastle that we could have been are, in fact, the Liverpool that we’re privileged to be watching, every single week. The best Liverpool team, by far, that I’ve seen in my 38 years. The first team since our glory years that could genuinely lay claim to being the best in Europe (as opposed to being the best at playing in Europe). The first Liverpool team I’ve ever seen that looks set to compete for the league consistently, and the first one that I’ve ever seen which, petrodollar plutocrats aside, absolutely dominates the rest of the division, and indeed has done so over the last season to an extent never before witnessed even in our illustrious history.

We have a manager at the cutting edge playing football from the stars with a team of humble but extravagantly talented players who have been moulded into a ruthless winning machine with a mentality of iron. Behind that, we’ve got foundations that look real and solid, a way of thinking about the game that looks as sophisticated and sustainable for its time and its context as the boot room did back in the day. We’ve got everything any football fan could dare to dream of. In that context, we need to realise that the league title isn’t a be-all and end-all but the cherry on what is already a fantastic cake. And if we keep baking cakes like this, the cherry on top will be, in time, almost inevitable – assuming (and that’s a big assumption) – that the financial game doesn’t change again.

As for the game itself, this looks as inevitable a beating as you’ll ever see. The gulf in class between the two teams is colossal in every which way you could conceive of. Not only that, but Newcastle have been our bunnies in this league for as long as I can remember, with so many comfortable wins in so many situations and very, very few dropped points that I can remember. There’s something about Bruce that makes me fear a horrific snatch-and-grab raid but, in all honesty, I think that’s the beach ball speaking. I mean, where’s it going to come from? Set pieces? We defend them better than anyone else in the league, and break, terrifyingly, against any team that actually commits to using them as an attacking tactic. Open play? They haven’t got a single weapon that can conceivable hurt us, and even if they did, they haven’t got a manager who can work out a game plan to bring that weapon into play. Even Rafa got turned over here, and Bruce is to Rafa what an amoeba is to the Viennese Philharmonic Orchestra. The nature of football is that nothing is ever certain, but Bruce will come to try and frustrate us with his two banks of four that he doesn’t do as well as Hodgson does, and we will break them down with a team and a system and a set of players that have become extremely used to unparking much better buses than Bruce will bring.

In short, it’s a lovely fixture to have after the international break. And we're all buzzing for it, aren't we?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 08:21:31 pm by hesbighesred »
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Offline edmundljs

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2019, 10:33:24 am »
Good read other than the reminder of the beach ball nightmare.   :no :no ;D ;D ;D

Offline red vinyl

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2019, 10:35:13 am »
Enjoyed that thankyou.

Offline hesbighesred

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2019, 10:52:59 am »
A pleasure, thank you for reading!
He is the cat who walks by himself, and all roads are alike to him.

Offline Davidbowie

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2019, 10:58:41 am »
As mentioned in the OP, they'll set up with 2 banks of 4 - and pretty much have 10 men in their own half for the entire game.

We'll have to be patient but I'd imagine the more creative players like Ox, Firmino, Shaqiri even?? would have a lot of time on the ball infront of the Newcastle defence. Defending crosses is what Bruce will have worked on no doubt, so you'd imagine chances might come from working the ball in the centre with quick 1-2's or shots from outside the area.

The 'danger men' if you like, are Almiron and Joelinton, but Almiron has a tendency to run with his head down into blind alleys and Joelinton looks a bit of a lump to be honest - the other Brazilian striker Wesley, at Villa looks much better than him.

I can't see anything other than a win here, albeit a bit of a grinder.

2-0
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Offline hesbighesred

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2019, 11:28:13 am »
As mentioned in the OP, they'll set up with 2 banks of 4 - and pretty much have 10 men in their own half for the entire game.

We'll have to be patient but I'd imagine the more creative players like Ox, Firmino, Shaqiri even?? would have a lot of time on the ball infront of the Newcastle defence. Defending crosses is what Bruce will have worked on no doubt, so you'd imagine chances might come from working the ball in the centre with quick 1-2's or shots from outside the area.
I think you're spot on, there. Ox and Shaquiri may be useful lockpickers, Ox especially as Hendo played against Kosovo. We might just see Origi in for Firmino, though, given the latter played and travelled. I wonder if we might see Mane up top in that case?
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Offline redk84

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2019, 11:28:24 am »
Thanks OP

They will be conservative in their approach and we should have too much quality for them.
Hopefully a straightforward win here and a chance for some minutes to some of our fringe players if we can make it comfortable late on....

3-0 redmen
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Offline ScouserAtHeart

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2019, 11:31:25 am »
I'm going for a 4-1 win in this one, Geoff.
"Jürgen Klopp is bringing Liverpool's 'fuck you' back. And I can't wait."

Offline Charlie Adams fried egg

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2019, 11:34:16 am »
Great OP mate thanks and it's good to see someone who shares my frustration with the beach ball. Like you it was Bruce's reaction that got me. That instead of having the grace to admit it was luck and a mistake, he makes himself look even more ridiculous by claiming anyone (even the refs) knowing that rule would have to be a bit of a saddo.

Like the rest of the cabal of mediocrity, when they are on the wrong end of a decision, they make sure the talking point is how unjust the result was. We saw it with that prick Hodgson last year with the song and dance he made about our pen at Selhurst Park, We've seen it with Dyche, with Moyes, with Pardew and others. And yet when they benefit from luck, the opposition are just meant to suck it up and get on with it because complaining would just be sour grapes.

Hypocritical bellends the lot of them. Looking forward to being reminded of how economically superior Newcastle is to Liverpool too.

Offline Brain Potter

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2019, 11:35:43 am »
Despite being a pessimist I cannot see anything other than a comfortable Liverpool win. Just look at the differences between the teams.
Since the PL started we’ve only managed to lose once to these at Anfield back in 1994. Since then mainly wins with the very occasional draw.
Ref is Andre Marriner...not the worst to be honest.

Offline sms1986

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2019, 11:41:26 am »
I think it'll be a comfortable win and probably by quite a few goals too. I predict 5-0 to us.

Offline Damian V

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2019, 11:43:48 am »
We're at home so no doubts about this one  8)
Hoping for another clean sheet for Adrian

Offline Too early for flapjacks?

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2019, 12:04:33 pm »
Our two Brazilian’s were with the international side in LA in the early hours and likely won’t report back to Melwood until Thursday afternoon so I wonder if it’s worth leaving them on the bench for this one. Outside of that I think most of our players we’re either playing in Europe on Monday/Tuesday or have been training at Melwood. A bit more threat from midfield might be useful for this one so would like to see Ox start.

                         Adrian

Trent          Matip          van Dijk          Robbo

                      Henderson
               Ox                    Gini

     Salah                                 Mane
                            Origi

Subs: Firmino, Shaqiri, Milner, Fabinho, Lovren, Gomez, Kelleher
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 12:07:35 pm by Too early for flapjacks? »

Offline 88_RED

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2019, 12:05:28 pm »
Thanks for the OP mate.. lovely read..

Over the last season or so, Klopp has us well drilled to handle teams with 2 banks of 4, hoping to knick it via a set piece..

We'll have too much quality, cohesion, desire, mentality for these..

3-0.. And another clean sheet for Adrian  ;D

F*CK 0FF Mourinho..

Offline 88_RED

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2019, 12:07:26 pm »
Our two Brazilian’s were with the international side in LA in the early hours and likely won’t report back to Melwood until Thursday afternoon so I wonder if it’s worth leaving them on the bench for this one. Outside of that I think most of our players we’re either playing in Europe on Monday/Tuesday or have been training at Melwood.

                         Adrian

Trent          Matip          van Dijk          Robbo

                      Henderson
               Ox                    Gini

     Salah                                 Mane
                            Origi

Subs: Firmino, Shaqiri, Milner, Fabinho, Lovren, Gomez, Kelleher

How about 2 up top.. Mane and Salah.. Let them have a bare knuckle fight in the warm up and the loser can take it out on Newcastle..
F*CK 0FF Mourinho..

Offline Sharado

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2019, 12:10:29 pm »
There's absolutely nothing in newcastle's team that should cause us any problems whatsoever. We should win this with rotation even after international week, it's a perfect fixture ahead of some trickier ones. I've seen above some suggestions newcastle score, but barring a mistake at the back from us I can't see how their forwards cause us any problems. We are comprehensively better than them all over the park and whilst you can take nothing for granted, if we don't beat them then something will have had to have gone very wrong on the day.
3 midfielders minimum in the next window. And probably another young CB to boot.

Anything else is negligent.

Offline Macca201188

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2019, 12:22:22 pm »
Our two Brazilian’s were with the international side in LA in the early hours and likely won’t report back to Melwood until Thursday afternoon so I wonder if it’s worth leaving them on the bench for this one. Outside of that I think most of our players we’re either playing in Europe on Monday/Tuesday or have been training at Melwood. A bit more threat from midfield might be useful for this one so would like to see Ox start.

                         Adrian

Trent          Matip          van Dijk          Robbo

                      Henderson
               Ox                    Gini

     Salah                                 Mane
                            Origi

Subs: Firmino, Shaqiri, Milner, Fabinho, Lovren, Gomez, Kelleher


Think this could be about right. Potentially Milner in the line up.
The reds are comin up the hill boys....

Offline G Richards

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2019, 12:31:36 pm »
I’m not feeling the ire for Bruce. He’s a modest manager, lucky to have a Prem job these days, but I can’t get wound up by him, even if he lacked good manners over the beach ball thing and laddishly made a thing about not knowing the rules.

The game on Saturday is all about us. If we play anything like we can, it’s a comfortable win. What is slightly in the back of my mind is we have form for stuttering for a game or two after the international break. So I’m expecting a disjointed performance, but we should still have enough quality to get the points and then regroup for a couple of bigger fixtures afterwards.

Not sure what we will do with the Brazilians. Play them, build a lead, then sub them out early for a rest? Or put them on the bench and use the squad? I could make a case either way.

Bottom line I’m not expecting a great performance because of the international disruption, but I am expecting us to win, as the gulf in class is too great.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 12:33:10 pm by G Richards »

Offline wige

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2019, 12:31:45 pm »
Cheers for the OP HBHR, your anger and frustration at both the beach ball incident, the Gray/Keys lead era of
 "space doesn't score a goal, fuck zonal marking, good ol' English manager" insight and that period of time in our history resonates deeply. Thankfully we've moved on.

Think this is where the season starts to get interesting in terms of selections. We're essentially playing every 3/4 days until what, January? We may get a week off if we go out of the League Cup, but it seems we're nailed on for the 4th round at least. Now, while we know that Klopp does nothing but focus on the next game and insists the players do the same, I can't believe he doesn't also look at a block of fixtures and have some sort of a plan on where and when to rotate. Maybe I'm wrong and it's literally based on physio, doctor, sports science reports after/ahead of each game.

Basically, I think we might see a few changes here. Nothing Mental. Trent, Matip, Virg (and in all likelihood, Robbo) start. Mane and Salah too. I think there's question marks over all the midfield and Firmino. Bobby and Fab played about 8 hours ago, will get a single Friday session and this is an early kickoff. At best we'll be monitoring them closely. Gini played twice, Henderson played twice. Milner has had time off, as has Lallana, as has Shaqiri. Taking all that into account, a switch of formation wouldn't surprise me or a complete midfield change. I doubt we expect Newcastle to be too expansive (and those of us who lived the beach ball era probably know Bruce's approach as well as Klopp will) so a 4-2-3-1 with Milner, Lallana, Shaqiri, Mane and Mo taking 5 of the 6 spots ahead of defence wouldn't be a shock.

If Klopp is looking at blocks of games as well, then with the next run being as below it's also a pretty good chance to get key players - Gini, Fab, Bobby in particular - some time off ahead of a) two tricky fixtures away at Napoli and Chelsea (albeit with a five day break between) and b) those being the start of 4 away games on the bounce. The third of those is MK Dons and a great chance to get more minutes/rhythm into Lovren, Gomez, Milner, Ox, Lallana, Shaqiri, Origi at least. Then, the first choice lads come back in for the final three games of this block.

Newcastle | Home|  12:30 KO | 14/9
Napoli | Away | 20:00 KO | 17/9
Chelsea | Away | 4:30 KO | 22/9
MK Dons | Away | 19:45 KO | 25/9
Sheff Utd | Away | 12:30 KO | 28/9
RB Salzburg | Home | 20:00 KO | 2/10
Leicester | Home | 15:00 KO | 5/10

--International Break--

In summary - who knows. I do think this is where rotation, rest, line-ups definitely start to see change though, and it's also a fantastic opportunity to cement our position for this season. We can take a huge leap towards CL qualification with a draw/win at Napoli and a win vs RB Salzburg. We can get minutes and confidence into the squad for when they're needed with some intelligent rotation, and hopefully, genuinely target 12 points from 12 in the league. Stamford bridge is never easy, but it's also never been easier in the last 14/15 years. Leicester at home may be trickier.

Ultimately, just beat Newcastle. We're far better, and to my eyes have that anger that Klopp's referenced multiple times. That and utter conviction in our approach and ability. It's a fantastic combination and something you used to see in the league winning teams of the past - Arsenal invincibles, Ferguson's Utd, Mourninho's early Chelsea.

I'll go with a profession performance and a 2-0 result. Wild lineup guess:

Adrian, Trent, Matip, Virg, Robbo, Gini, Milner, Mane, Lallana, Shaq, Mo (4231)

Offline deFacto please, you bastards

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2019, 12:48:25 pm »
My memory may be playing tricks on me, but Big Fat head Bruce has frustrated us at Anfield on more than one occasion. As already said, they'll park the proverbial bus, and play long at every given opportunity. We'll have to be patient as always in games like this and take our chances. Taking advantage of set pieces for us would open them up as well.

Given the travel time for Firmino and Fabinho, wouldn't be surprising if they didn't start this match.

Adrian

Trent
Matip
Van Dijk
Robertson

Wijnaldum
Henderson
Ox

Shaqiri
Salah
Mane


Offline newterp

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2019, 12:50:45 pm »
I wish we had a backup for Robertson (not Milner). He doesn’t know how to rest and just played two grueling 90s for Scotland.

Offline mrantarctica

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2019, 12:53:00 pm »
My memory may be playing tricks on me, but Big Fat head Bruce has frustrated us at Anfield on more than one occasion. As already said, they'll park the proverbial bus, and play long at every given opportunity. We'll have to be patient as always in games like this and take our chances. Taking advantage of set pieces for us would open them up as well.

Given the travel time for Firmino and Fabinho, wouldn't be surprising if they didn't start this match.

Adrian

Trent
Matip
Van Dijk
Robertson

Wijnaldum
Henderson
Ox

Shaqiri
Salah
Mane

If Firmino doesn't start, wonder whether we will go for a bit more directness and physical presence with Origi. I think if Fab isn't starting, then we'll see Milner get on. Milner is the most rested of the lot and is the sensible choice if there are doubts over others.

Wouldn't mind seeing a fitness status update on Naby and Lallana. I sometimes wonder whether Lallana can perhaps fulfil some aspects of what Firmino does

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2019, 12:56:09 pm »
Lallana is fine, he's been training in California.

Gomez could be an option for Robertson although not an ideal,  but an option non the less.

Given that it's almost a certainty that none of them will be playing in midweek, they have a week to rest after this match anyway.

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2019, 01:01:31 pm »
Surely Milner starts.
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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2019, 01:06:34 pm »
Lallana is fine, he's been training in California.

Gomez could be an option for Robertson although not an ideal,  but an option non the less.

Given that it's almost a certainty that none of them will be playing in midweek, they have a week to rest after this match anyway.

it's Napoli next week!

2 weeks until Mk Dons when some of them can put their feet up
We already have shit in the country, and the game of Liverpool fills life with joy. Thanks

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2019, 01:06:46 pm »
I wasn't expecting such an angry preview, but I liked it.
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and walks outdoors, and keeps on walking,
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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2019, 01:08:36 pm »
it's Napoli next week!

2 weeks until Mk Dons when some of them can put their feet up

Ah you're right. Also we have Chelsea after Napoli as well.

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2019, 01:22:56 pm »
Surely Milner starts.

Yep. Maybe even at left back?

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2019, 01:38:07 pm »
Yep. Maybe even at left back?
Not impossible, is it?
Think this is where the season starts to get interesting in terms of selections. We're essentially playing every 3/4 days until what, January? We may get a week off if we go out of the League Cup, but it seems we're nailed on for the 4th round at least....

Newcastle | Home|  12:30 KO | 14/9
Napoli | Away | 20:00 KO | 17/9
Chelsea | Away | 4:30 KO | 22/9
MK Dons | Away | 19:45 KO | 25/9
Sheff Utd | Away | 12:30 KO | 28/9
RB Salzburg | Home | 20:00 KO | 2/10
Leicester | Home | 15:00 KO | 5/10

--International Break--
Thanks for the appreciation and yes - I think it's very likely that the fitness team in conjunction with Klopp don't just look at the last game but also the next game and the games coming up. I mean, looking at that, you'd think that our best 11 are absolutely nailed onto start against both Napoli and Chelsea. I hadn't realised Napoli was so close to the Newcastle game so you'd think a degree of rotation would be likely, while also taking into account that Klopp is a kind of reluctant rotator. He's not one to really play horses for courses, and he tends to see his best 11 as a kind of list - like I'm surprised to see Shaq in so many lists without Origi because it seems clear to me that Origi is higher in the list than Shaq is.

So we can look at players like -
Fab, Firmino, Hendo, Robertson and Gini - all played and/or travelled (did Fab actually play?).

Salah, Mane... didn't play, didn't travel, absolutely 100% nailed on to start.

Milner, Origi, Shaq, Gomez...didn't play, didn't travel, we're likely to see some of these rotated in.

Now, I'd be surprised to see mass changes but am kind of expecting some, maybe something like this:

.......Origi       Mane       Salah  (with Shaq/Bobby almost certain to come on for Mane or Salah at some point)
 
...........Gini.............Ox

.................Hendo                (with Milner a certainty to come on for Gini/Hendo)

...Rob   VvD     Matip      Trent (with Milner/Gomez a possibility for one of the FB spots)

.............Adrian     


You'd think that the subs in this match will be more determined by fitness than tactics because, in all honest, it's really hard to see anything but a Liverpool win here.

As has been said, Bruce has frustrated us before - to be (very reluctantly) fair to him he can just about organise a defence - but that was against Liverpool sides for whom that was a serial weakness. We've basically cut that out of our game these days and have an added patience and ruthlessness from set-pieces at both ends that really helps us in games like this.

Having said that, and with genuine sympathies to Newcastle fans, I would absolutely love us to treat Newcastle like a psychopathic kid tearing the limbs of an insect, just a relentlessly forensic destruction of a shit team and shit manager to act as a profound warning to all other shit teams that just coming not to play isn't going to fucking cut it anymore. Which, I would hope, would lead to many such teams just giving up before they've even started - because there are still a few left (hello Roy) who don't know any other way to play.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 01:48:44 pm by hesbighesred »
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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2019, 01:45:08 pm »
I'd presume Fab and Bobby may start this one on the bench, depending on when they get back. The early Saturday kick off may not help us in that respect.

Maybe worth seeing Lallana in the 6 like during pre-season against a team with zero ambition if so? Origi then starts in place of Bobby who can be used off the bench.

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2019, 02:21:29 pm »
I personally wouldnt have Fab or Bobby in the squad

Stupid travel for them this break and if we can’t leave them out for this, is there ever going to be a game when we can??

For me the back four will be as per Burnley

Midfield for me would  be Oxlade-Chamberlain, Lallana and Milner and front three of Mané, Sale and Origi with Origi off the left and Mane central

I’d have Hendo on the bench as he played both games for England and fill the bench with the rest depending on fitness

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2019, 02:23:55 pm »
I personally wouldnt have Fab or Bobby in the squad

Stupid travel for them this break and if we can’t leave them out for this, is there ever going to be a game when we can??

For me the back four will be as per Burnley

Midfield for me would  be Oxlade-Chamberlain, Lallana and Milner and front three of Mané, Sale and Origi with Origi off the left and Mane central

I’d have Hendo on the bench as he played both games for England and fill the bench with the rest depending on fitness

That midfield would probably see a lot of twitchiness and not sure he'd be that bold. I would almost expect Milner. Reckon one of AOC or Lallana has a decent chance. One of Hendo or Gini will be in alongside.
3 midfielders minimum in the next window. And probably another young CB to boot.

Anything else is negligent.

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2019, 03:10:29 pm »
That midfield would probably see a lot of twitchiness and not sure he'd be that bold. I would almost expect Milner. Reckon one of AOC or Lallana has a decent chance. One of Hendo or Gini will be in alongside.

Think you’re probably right but if you can’t use the squad in a game like this there’s no point having them

Hendo and Wijnaldum have both played two full matches so I’d personally bench them and trust the resources we’ve got who are fresh.


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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2019, 03:28:43 pm »
Cheers for the OP HBHR, your anger and frustration at both the beach ball incident, the Gray/Keys lead era of
 "space doesn't score a goal, fuck zonal marking, good ol' English manager" insight and that period of time in our history resonates deeply. Thankfully we've moved on.

Think this is where the season starts to get interesting in terms of selections. We're essentially playing every 3/4 days until what, January? We may get a week off if we go out of the League Cup, but it seems we're nailed on for the 4th round at least. Now, while we know that Klopp does nothing but focus on the next game and insists the players do the same, I can't believe he doesn't also look at a block of fixtures and have some sort of a plan on where and when to rotate. Maybe I'm wrong and it's literally based on physio, doctor, sports science reports after/ahead of each game.

Basically, I think we might see a few changes here. Nothing Mental. Trent, Matip, Virg (and in all likelihood, Robbo) start. Mane and Salah too. I think there's question marks over all the midfield and Firmino. Bobby and Fab played about 8 hours ago, will get a single Friday session and this is an early kickoff. At best we'll be monitoring them closely. Gini played twice, Henderson played twice. Milner has had time off, as has Lallana, as has Shaqiri. Taking all that into account, a switch of formation wouldn't surprise me or a complete midfield change. I doubt we expect Newcastle to be too expansive (and those of us who lived the beach ball era probably know Bruce's approach as well as Klopp will) so a 4-2-3-1 with Milner, Lallana, Shaqiri, Mane and Mo taking 5 of the 6 spots ahead of defence wouldn't be a shock.

If Klopp is looking at blocks of games as well, then with the next run being as below it's also a pretty good chance to get key players - Gini, Fab, Bobby in particular - some time off ahead of a) two tricky fixtures away at Napoli and Chelsea (albeit with a five day break between) and b) those being the start of 4 away games on the bounce. The third of those is MK Dons and a great chance to get more minutes/rhythm into Lovren, Gomez, Milner, Ox, Lallana, Shaqiri, Origi at least. Then, the first choice lads come back in for the final three games of this block.

Newcastle | Home|  12:30 KO | 14/9
Napoli | Away | 20:00 KO | 17/9
Chelsea | Away | 4:30 KO | 22/9
MK Dons | Away | 19:45 KO | 25/9
Sheff Utd | Away | 12:30 KO | 28/9
RB Salzburg | Home | 20:00 KO | 2/10
Leicester | Home | 15:00 KO | 5/10

--International Break--

In summary - who knows. I do think this is where rotation, rest, line-ups definitely start to see change though, and it's also a fantastic opportunity to cement our position for this season. We can take a huge leap towards CL qualification with a draw/win at Napoli and a win vs RB Salzburg. We can get minutes and confidence into the squad for when they're needed with some intelligent rotation, and hopefully, genuinely target 12 points from 12 in the league. Stamford bridge is never easy, but it's also never been easier in the last 14/15 years. Leicester at home may be trickier.

Ultimately, just beat Newcastle. We're far better, and to my eyes have that anger that Klopp's referenced multiple times. That and utter conviction in our approach and ability. It's a fantastic combination and something you used to see in the league winning teams of the past - Arsenal invincibles, Ferguson's Utd, Mourninho's early Chelsea.

I'll go with a profession performance and a 2-0 result. Wild lineup guess:

Adrian, Trent, Matip, Virg, Robbo, Gini, Milner, Mane, Lallana, Shaq, Mo (4231)

I see space for good rotation in two of those games. We have to go full strength against Napoli and Chelsea. Sheffield could be a tricky a away game to a promoted team who can have 10 men behind the ball. Then it's a crucial CL game which may be a game we have to win, especially if we can't win at Napoli (which is a possible outcome). And then it's Leicester at Home, a fixture we drew in a 97 point season. None of those a straight forward.

So, that leaves us Newcastle at Home and MK Dons Away for good rotation. This is a big picture kind of a thought. But once we go inside that run of fixtures, things may change and Klopp may feel different then.

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2019, 03:41:48 pm »
I personally wouldnt have Fab or Bobby in the squad

Stupid travel for them this break and if we can’t leave them out for this, is there ever going to be a game when we can??

For me the back four will be as per Burnley

Midfield for me would  be Oxlade-Chamberlain, Lallana and Milner and front three of Mané, Sale and Origi with Origi off the left and Mane central

I’d have Hendo on the bench as he played both games for England and fill the bench with the rest depending on fitness

Yes, MK Dons in a few weeks

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2019, 03:57:09 pm »
Good read and something different and refreshing from the usual OP'S ( which have been of a high standard). Thank you

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2019, 04:00:20 pm »
One of Hendo or Gini will be in alongside.
Yep, can't see both of them being rested either. Subbing one for the other, maybe, but not neither to start.
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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2019, 04:06:22 pm »
I think we've done fairly well regarding players who didn't go on international duty. I think it was Adrian, Matip, Milner, Gomez, Ox, Shaq, Mane, Lallana, and Salah. I think all nine are staying behind for the next break as well (unless one of the English lads gets called up). I'd imagine Adrian, Matip, Mane, Milner and Salah are all definite starters, and of the others, Ox and Gomez may also get starts. Origi will likely be preferred to Shaq.

With so many players staying behind, the boss has probably been able to do pretty good sessions.

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2019, 04:08:21 pm »
Bloody great reading mate. Welcome back football.

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Re: Liverpool Vs Newcastle Pre-Match Thread KO: 12:30
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2019, 04:36:08 pm »
No fucking about, strongest team possible and twat these good style. We can go 5 points clear of City with a win, let them stew in that for a few hours, the cheating fuckers!
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