Author Topic: Baking in progress and preserving our values... what's the right club structure?  (Read 65845 times)

Offline Meako1977

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,060
  • King of the Kop
Realistically you always need a hieracy otherwise you end up with a one-eyed view of how a business/football club should be run. IMO breaking the club down into different areas who have responsibility for doing their best to improve the club in their area.

You have the manager who controls his coaching team and the 1st team squad (including reserves), the purchasing of the players for the 1st team squad and scouting for the first team. You then have a financial conduit between the chairmen and manager who is picked and agreed by both and acts as the deal-maker for the managers transfers. Finally you have a commerical manager who looks after the growth of the club from a business side and answers purely to the owners.

In regard to the Academy I believe that you need to have a seperate group of scouts, coaches and managers who take direct responsibility for this area. These need to be bringing through players who are coached in the LFC way, regardless of who the manager is. The manager of the Academy should be liaising with Melwood and advising on players who the Academy feel are ready to take the next step upto the 1st team squad. IMO there is no need for the 1st team manager to have control and longterm this will benefit LFC.

Finally you have a scouting group that is headed up by one person who has a group of scouts working for him and will bring potential players to the 1st team manager and the Academy manager for them to decide whether they are good enough.

By having experts in each area that are working towards the greater good then you avoid having one man directing in his own view and potentially taking the club down a road that will take years to recover from.
Born in Liverpool, raised a red, lived as a red and will die as a red. YNWA

Offline yafoy

  • lazy git - sabu pundit on pot
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,537
  • a RED who occupies Europe
    • EuRED Liverpool UNofficial Supporters Network
hmmmm...if any of you have been involved in Management buy-outs / takeovers/ JVs & mergers / acquisitions , U must know that what a situation is on the outside and how people cover themselves in politics can only clearly be seen when U are inside..its too easy to look in and say " this or that must be done"...only when U are IN the situation can U really decide the structure that is needed, whether U have a "method" that suits the individuals necessary to be retained, by choice or contract, or whether you install the "system" and appoint the individuals..(or both) ...cant really say whats needed without more info...from the inside...
Shanks: "Some people believe football is a matter of life and  death, I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that. - At a football club, there's a holy trinity - the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don't come into it"

royhendo

  • Guest
hmmmm...if any of you have been involved in Management buy-outs / takeovers/ JVs & mergers / acquisitions , U must know that what a situation is on the outside and how people cover themselves in politics can only clearly be seen when U are inside..its too easy to look in and say " this or that must be done"...only when U are IN the situation can U really decide the structure that is needed, whether U have a "method" that suits the individuals necessary to be retained, by choice or contract, or whether you install the "system" and appoint the individuals..(or both) ...cant really say whats needed without more info...from the inside...

So ultimately no point in the thread... or in having a club-specific bulletin board at all then? ;D

Offline yafoy

  • lazy git - sabu pundit on pot
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,537
  • a RED who occupies Europe
    • EuRED Liverpool UNofficial Supporters Network
So ultimately no point in the thread... or in having a club-specific bulletin board at all then? ;D

;)

when I read some of the stuff supposedly posted by "fans"..i do wonder...but...
sure opinions and arguement are great to have , I would like some thing more constructive on the main footy forum , but IMO also...theres a tendence to state opinions as if they are "concrete" ...the "the only way to solve xxxx is".....

its the same with SOS, it seems to many people like to say ...it needs to be xxxxxx , instead of actually getting inside it and making it be what they want or whats needed..

we suffer these days from a world which since i started in management 30 years or so ago, has introduced incredible technology & automation, yet prices go up, and efficiency goes down, also because people play "politics & also seem to prefer to "conference" than to do, and the "education" rewards the ability to gain "credentials" than real ability to get things done..end of rant, for the moment...
;)
Shanks: "Some people believe football is a matter of life and  death, I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that. - At a football club, there's a holy trinity - the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don't come into it"

royhendo

  • Guest
Looks like things are about to change on this front... I for one am glad we had this debate (cheers to the likes of Redwood32 and the rest of you for fleshing out the issues at stake). I feel a lot more informed on the subject now, that's for sure.

Offline Zeb

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,571
  • Justice.
If this is woolly apologies but I’d like to take you on a quick tour of nineteenth and early twentieth century German military history. No, wait – seriously. There is some relevance. For 150 years the Germany army was the best in the world at fighting battles. If that is not a successful spell of domination in a very competitive business, then I don’t know what is.

It stems from a general called von Gneisenau. The Prussians had been beaten by Napoleon and were figuring out why, von Gneisenau claimed to have the answer. Instead of telling your officers what to do and how to do it, how about telling them what you want them to make happen? Instead of strictly controlling your subordinates, allow them freedom to be creative in finding solutions to problems. This was the birth of Auftragstaktik (Mission Command as it is now called by the US Army who adopted it post-WW2). You tell your subordinate what you want but allow them to find the best way to achieve that goal.

The problem with allowing people to be creative is of course that they can end up working at cross-purposes, chaotically, or inefficiently. To solve this problem another general named von Moltke established a training school for officers. This was the Prussian General staff. They chose the best and most likely candidates, trained them, groomed them and eventually put them in positions of authority. The training was not in what to think but how to think. The officers were immersed in a system and philosophy which allowed them to replace each other in positions of authority with minimal fuss and no loss of direction. The creativity was nurtured and protected allowing seemingly insane ideas to be proposed, tested and analysed for any benefits.

This foundation of operational planning allowed Prussia to rapidly dominate central Europe. They beat the Austro-Hungarian Empire handily when they disagreed over uniting Germany, they beat the French convincingly in 1870 and came within a whisker of doing the same again to the French and British in 1914 in a plan undone by one wing of their army not following the plan of attack correctly. In 1940, they trounced the French and British again. In 1941, they did the same to the Soviet Union.

However, successful operational planning did not translate into successful strategic planning. Germany is a country of limited resources. In short wars against opponents of equal or more limited means, the Prussian general staff system gave them a huge advantage. But once wars became longer and stagnated, adversaries with greater resources could ultimately grind them down and defeat them.

Where does this tie in with Liverpool football club? Oddly enough, ‘The Boot Room’ seems to have been an embryonic Prussian General staff system. The style of football involved heavy use of ‘auftragstaktik’.

Let me pass you over to one graduate, Ronnie Moran, the quotes are from www.shankly.com :

Training based on philosophy and how to think?

Quote
"People missed what it was all about. They would just see us do a bit of jogging then go straight into small groups for games of 5-a-sides, or maybe a bit of ball work. They never saw the little things that we were doing, teaching the players when to pass, how to move into space. Sometimes players would be corrected for passing to someone who was marked for instance. I was blessed as a player, I found it easy but some didn't and they had to be taught."

Identifying talent suitable for promotion?

Quote
"Shanks called me to one side. I thought, this is it, he's going to tell me another club's come in for me' and he said to me 'Ronnie, how would you like to join the back room staff?'. I went off and discussed it with my wife. We are both from Liverpool and didn't want to leave, and the next day I told Bill, 'yes'."

Now a member of the burgeoning boot room, Moran gradually worked his way up the ranks from working with the youngsters, through to first team trainer and then manager. Moran was to become the sergeant major of Melwood, bellowing instructions and keeping any inflating egos firmly in check.

"We never really discussed specific roles, I guess Shanks and Bob had seen me shouting and talking a lot when I was playing and liked what they'd seen. They just let me get on with it."

Quote
I'm not saying having great ball skills is wrong, of course it's not and all players have to have a certain level of skill, but with Shanks it was not the most important thing. If you watched youngsters playing a game you might spot the one who gives you something extra, a bit of fight or determination for example. Shanks would want to see what the lad could do with his natural footballing brains. Does he know how to pass? Can he tackle? He would be looking to see if that lad had something about him.

Working within a philosophical framework rather than specific task based orders?

Quote
Shanks always preached that we had eleven captains. He wanted to see players think things out and rectify things if they were going wrong. You never got shouted at for trying to change something out on the pitch. You were always taught to work things out for yourself. Mind you if you tried something stupid and it didn't come off we had a saying that we would 'hit you on the head with a big stick from the touchline'. I remember Steve Nicol getting a hat-trick once at Newcastle. Nobody told him where he had to go and what to do, he just worked it out himself. He got the match ball and I told him it was probably the only one he'd ever get ! but nobody told him off for joining in the attack.

You see players now going on overlaps because they think they have to even though they've got three players around them and no chance of getting the ball. To be fair, if you look at the really successful teams now, like Manchester United or Chelsea and even Leeds, they do get it right.

Look at Denis Irwin the other week at Chelsea. United were getting beaten and were down to 10 men but he pushed up whenever he could, trying to influence the game and help out, yet he knew when to stay back whenever they were under the cosh or when to bolster the midfield."
For Moran the lack of quality in the game today stems simply from the fact that we don't, as a rule, teach the right things to our young footballers.

"Phil Neal was telling me the other day how he used to know when to go and when not to but players today don't seem to have that nouse. I think all over the country now too much is being put in footballer's brains about what they must and must not do."

An anecdote from Tom Saunders ( Youth Development Officer, scout and director at Liverpool) seems to convey a similar message:
Quote
The players waited for instructions and Shankly began to speak and continued for some fifteen minutes. Not about the opposition or even football. Oh no! Boxing was the sole subject for a quarter of an hour. He then switched to football but quickly brought proceedings to a halt. 'Don't let's waste time! That bloody lot can't play at all.' With that, the team talk was rapidly brought to a close.

How did our system collapse? Did we neglect the strategic in favour of the operational? Did we allow a chief of staff to focus solely on operational quick fixes which our resources were unable to sustain?

There have been many superb posts by regular contributors to RAWK on the structure of the club, on the philosophical framework which Benítez is currently trying to implement and how it will be possible for Liverpool once more to dominate domestically. I would strongly agree with those who have argued that the whole structure of the club needs to be sorted out. And I’d like to point once more to Germany for an example of how they have married ‘operational’ level planning with ‘strategic’ level planning.

The example is Bayern Munich.

They have been the dominant force in German football for decades. Their success has been underpinned by utilising those with football knowledge and business acumen in roles within the club. High profile former players work alongside business leaders on ‘strategic’ developments with strategy and operational sides of the club being linked by those former players – if the flaw with the Prussian general staff was that they weren’t involved enough in strategy, the Bayern general staff have a strong voice on the strategic direction of the club.

This is not to say that one cannot detect flaws in the Bayern system – Beckenbauer is the strongest voice in the Bayern set-up and few managers seem to tolerate his ‘active’ approach in more ‘operational’ matters such as running the team.

The Mancs tried something similar once with Busby and it backfired badly, and so they now have a figurehead appointment in Bobby Charlton acting at the ‘strategic’ level. (We passed up the opportunity, rightly or wrongly, to try a similar experiment with Shankly after seeing the Mancs collapse in the 70s).

Perhaps what would be ideal would be a figure with responsibilities somewhere between the heavyweight Beckenbauer and the paperweight Charlton. One name springs immediately to mind.

Obviously the strategic direction is dependant on the actual owner/s of the club (insert your own joke about Hitler and G&H here) but can we continue with a system which divorces those tasked with achieving success from access to debate over the resources committed to sustain such a drive? The manager of the football club must be accountable to the club, surely his overseer should have detailed knowledge of the game?

Liverpool football club exists to win things for its supporters. Would our way back to dominance be better guaranteed if we gave a clever general room and time to restart a general staff system but this time ensure that we do not divorce activities off the field from activities on it?

And now I'll shut up about Prussia :D
« Last Edit: February 28, 2009, 07:40:46 am by Zeb »
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

royhendo

  • Guest
Please don't Zeb! Didn't realise you'd posted that here...

Anyway, with McParland allegedly coming back as head of the Academy - that's pretty big news in relation to this thread, no?

Offline Manila Kop

  • TRYING HARD TO FIT IN OOTER
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,540
  • The Greatest Fighter in the World
Please don't Zeb! Didn't realise you'd posted that here...

Anyway, with McParland allegedly coming back as head of the Academy - that's pretty big news in relation to this thread, no?

As I mentioned in the other thread, he scouted Hobbs and Anderson before he left to join Sammy at Bolton.  Could be about emphasizing bringing through some British talent to prepare for quotas in the next few years.  On the political front, he's a Rafa appointment - which means we are hopefully moving towards an alignment between Melwood and the Academy.
The infallible wank stain
Lolzies. More chance of a wank off the pope than beating United, I'm afraid. It is beyond Benitez, apart from when they were at their lowest ebb, when we knocked them out of the FA Cup. They certainly aren't anywhere near there now.

Offline hassinator

  • RAWK Funk Soul Brother
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,878
  • oot and proud
    • good egg hq
zeb - killer post sir.  on a side not i remember steve nichol's hat trick like it was yesterday.  it was newcastle away and i believe they had brazil striker mirandhina making his debut.  he coaches in the US these days and a mate of mine sees him regularly out there.

Offline KingKolo

  • usernamechangefullcirclejerk
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,648
Really interesting post Zeb, nice one pal.

..with McParland allegedly coming back as head of the Academy - that's pretty big news in relation to this thread, no?
Yeah, I'd say so.
I seem to be off the pace/out of touch. Where did you hear that Roy?

Offline Manila Kop

  • TRYING HARD TO FIT IN OOTER
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,540
  • The Greatest Fighter in the World
Really interesting post Zeb, nice one pal.
Yeah, I'd say so.
I seem to be off the pace/out of touch. Where did you hear that Roy?

There's a thread on it Geoff:

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=238883.new#new
The infallible wank stain
Lolzies. More chance of a wank off the pope than beating United, I'm afraid. It is beyond Benitez, apart from when they were at their lowest ebb, when we knocked them out of the FA Cup. They certainly aren't anywhere near there now.

Offline KingKolo

  • usernamechangefullcirclejerk
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,648

royhendo

  • Guest
So this is beginning to unfold now eh?

Are we happy with the way it's unfolding?

Offline Manila Kop

  • TRYING HARD TO FIT IN OOTER
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,540
  • The Greatest Fighter in the World
Pretty much what I wanted Roy...now all we need is proper oversight from a board and CEO that Rafa trusts and the other way around.  Incidentally, have you gotten the details on what exactly Rafa's new powers are?  With regards to the Academy for example, I would find that interesting.
The infallible wank stain
Lolzies. More chance of a wank off the pope than beating United, I'm afraid. It is beyond Benitez, apart from when they were at their lowest ebb, when we knocked them out of the FA Cup. They certainly aren't anywhere near there now.

Offline electricghost

  • Might haunt your wiring, but will usually stop if requested to. Lives in a spirit house in Pra Kanong.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,684
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7953358.stm

5Live interview with Hicks today. He talks of making changes to the board.
“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
― Steven Weinberg

Offline hesbighesred

  • Wallasey Wrecker. But you can call me quick fingers. After a threesome with Stevie and Alex
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,440
    • Collaborative thoughts on Euro 2012
So this is beginning to unfold now eh?

Are we happy with the way it's unfolding?

Obviously delighted that Rafa's signed, that the key terms have clearly been (more or less) met, and that little snippet Re Almeria is encouraging, but until we get concrete appointments at CEO and in terms of the academy (did McParland actually sign in the end? Again encouraging...) there's nothing to really judge on either way.
Pretty much what I wanted Roy...now all we need is proper oversight from a board and CEO that Rafa trusts and the other way around.  Incidentally, have you gotten the details on what exactly Rafa's new powers are?  With regards to the Academy for example, I would find that interesting.

Oh yeah, I must congratulate you, MK, on that spectacular sig of yours. It's just gotten funnier and funnier as the season's progressed.
He is the cat who walks by himself, and all roads are alike to him.

Offline Passmaster Molby

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,082
Interesting interview with Hicks there, and its clear that Rafa has been learning him the ways of what is needed to be a top club on the pitch. Also interesting to see that we will get new investors too, which I can only assume means GG and TH are selling some of their stake in the club to raise capital for the refinancing of the debt.

We could easily see a scenario where they sell around 30% of the club for say £125mill and invest that into the new stadium (set up a sponsorship deal for £100mill and the supposed £45mill from sale of Anfield and that just about pays for the new stadium at £270mill). That may well appease the banks and help them to get the refinancing they need as the new stadium will bring in bigger future revenues.

Offline Zeb

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,571
  • Justice.
did McParland actually sign in the end? Again encouraging...

From the interview in the Echo, would I be right in saying that Rafa is now going to be able to sort out McParland with a contract as well as sorting out the backroom staff and playing staff he wants to keep?

Quote
“My priority now is to do the deals for my staff and for the players who will be important for this club in the future,” added Benitez. “We want to improve in all departments – the squad, the mentality – everything that we possibly can.

I'm curious as to just how much power this gives Rafa? If Hicks' implication that Rafa now works to a budget is correct (along with the statement that he will be accountable to the 'board' which will also have a shake-up) then it could be exceptionally positive news. Primarily because it may lead to us having a sustainable structure which will weather any and all changes of ownership providing that a new owners sees something which is 'fit for purpose' and doesn't wish to rip it up and start totally afresh. Hicks' presence (assuming he was not lying) for another 5 years would ensure this. And so I'm left in this tangled moral maze of thinking that the cunning sod knows what he's doing to ramp the price up for when he eventually does sell his half of the club.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline Manila Kop

  • TRYING HARD TO FIT IN OOTER
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,540
  • The Greatest Fighter in the World
Obviously delighted that Rafa's signed, that the key terms have clearly been (more or less) met, and that little snippet Re Almeria is encouraging, but until we get concrete appointments at CEO and in terms of the academy (did McParland actually sign in the end? Again encouraging...) there's nothing to really judge on either way.

Oh yeah, I must congratulate you, MK, on that spectacular sig of yours. It's just gotten funnier and funnier as the season's progressed.

I'd forgotten about the sig HBHR!  It does look even worse now after the OT game...too bad albiceleste's been banned.  ;)

Have any of the ITKs mentioned additional bits of information about the backroom staff?  What about that title of "Director of Football Operations" for Rafa that was mooted awhile back?  Makes you wonder if the Almeria tie-up was Rafa's initiative.
The infallible wank stain
Lolzies. More chance of a wank off the pope than beating United, I'm afraid. It is beyond Benitez, apart from when they were at their lowest ebb, when we knocked them out of the FA Cup. They certainly aren't anywhere near there now.

Offline Manila Kop

  • TRYING HARD TO FIT IN OOTER
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,540
  • The Greatest Fighter in the World
From Oliver Kay, who probably knows what he's talking about...the part about the Academy and player contracts in particular are interesting since he mentions Spearing, Insua, Dalla Valle and Pacheco specifically.  I'm a bit disappointed (although not surprised) that Dossena has been mooted as a possible sale in the summer.

Quote from: The Times
From The Times
March 20, 2009
Rafael Benitez stays, but much still to sort out at Anfield
Oliver Kay, Football Correspondent

As the ink dried on Rafael Benítez’s new five-year contract yesterday someone at Anfield whispered the phrase “a new start”. It is an appraisal that seems to overlook the fact that Liverpool are in today’s Champions League quarter-final draw and still fighting for this season’s Barclays Premier League title, but the new deal has brought much-needed stability to a club where a number of critical issues remain unresolved.

Ownership

The clock is ticking for Liverpool’s owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr. July 25 is the date by which they must refinance their £350 million loans with Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) and Wachovia, with or without the assistance of another investor, or sell the club.

Gillett wants to offload his 50 per cent stake now — he has wanted to almost since buying the club two years ago — but Hicks is determined to find another investor. Talks have been held with two Kuwaiti groups, one of which has been identified as the Al-Kharafi family, who agreed a deal to buy the club last July, only to pull out at the eleventh hour.

The refinancing option would be difficult for Hicks and Gillett in this climate, particularly with RBS under public ownership. Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum, the ruler of Dubai, continues to monitor events with interest.

New stadium

Ever keen to dispel the image of the brash Texan, Hicks declared yesterday: “We wanna build that sucker.” That “sucker” is the proposed new 60,000-seat stadium on Stanley Park, a project put on hold indefinitely last August, when Hicks and Gillett conceded that could not raise the £350 million needed to start construction. Hicks insists that the stadium will be built when the financial climate improves.

Management structure

The imminent departure of Rick Parry leaves Liverpool looking for a new chief executive. Gillett favours an external appointment; Hicks supports the candidacy of Ian Ayre, the commercial director, but is prepared to look outside the club in order to get the right person.

With Parry leaving, David Moores unsure as to staying as life-president and serious doubts over Gillett’s plans, the board is set to be restructured. Ayre and Philip Nash, the finance director, are in line to move into the boardroom.

Playing squad

Benítez will be given £30 million to spend this summer in addition to any funds he can raise by selling Andrea Dossena, Philipp Degen and Andriy Voronin. The manager’s priorities include a winger, a centre forward, right back and, if Daniel Agger or Sami Hyypia departs, a centre back. Aaron Lennon, of Tottenham Hotspur, and Antonio Valencia, of Wigan Athletic, are among the wingers being monitored. Equally important is securing new deals for some of the squad. The most pressing case is Agger, who may be sold to AC Milan or Real Madrid in the summer, but Dirk Kuyt, Álvaro Arbeloa, Fábio Aurélio, Emiliano Insúa and Jay Spearing are also in Benitez’s plans. There are also new deals planned for Fernando Torres, who will accept an increase in his £90,000-a-week wage, as well as Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher, whose contracts expire in June 2011.

Youth academy

Benitez envisages a two-pronged system like that at Arsenal, with an emphasis on development and recruitment of outstanding young players. The manager has been disappointed by the failure to produce a home-grown Premier League player since Stephen Warnock, now at Blackburn Rovers. But, there are more than 30 overseas players in Liverpool’s reserve and youth teams, few of whom have made any impact. Benítez has high hopes for two teenage forwards, Dani Pacheco and Lauri Dalla Valle, from Spain and Finland respectively.
The infallible wank stain
Lolzies. More chance of a wank off the pope than beating United, I'm afraid. It is beyond Benitez, apart from when they were at their lowest ebb, when we knocked them out of the FA Cup. They certainly aren't anywhere near there now.

Offline Manila Kop

  • TRYING HARD TO FIT IN OOTER
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,540
  • The Greatest Fighter in the World
The revolution begins in earnest now.

MCPARLAND TO HEAD UP ACADEMY REVIEW
Paul Eaton 27 March 2009

Liverpool FC have appointed Frank McParland to undertake a strategic review of the club's Academy operation, which is based at Kirkby.

McParland was Liverpool Chief Scout for three years between 2004-07, before taking up the position of General Manager at Bolton Wanderers.
 
Manager Rafa Benitez explained: "When I signed my new contract, it was agreed I'd have a more significant influence at the Academy and this is an important step in assessing the future direction we will need to take.
 
"I value Frank's opinions and know him well from the time he spent working with me at Melwood. He will liaise closely with the staff at the Academy to produce a comprehensive analysis of the operation there before reporting back to me with his recommendations.
 
"Clearly, we need to move forward quickly, so Frank has already started work and will accompany the Under 18 team tomorrow when they travel to Huddersfield Town."

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N163790090327-1529.htm
The infallible wank stain
Lolzies. More chance of a wank off the pope than beating United, I'm afraid. It is beyond Benitez, apart from when they were at their lowest ebb, when we knocked them out of the FA Cup. They certainly aren't anywhere near there now.

Offline Zeb

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,571
  • Justice.
Now to see who's first against the wall...
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline Manila Kop

  • TRYING HARD TO FIT IN OOTER
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,540
  • The Greatest Fighter in the World
Now to see who's first against the wall...

Parry jumped the queue Zeb.  ;D
The infallible wank stain
Lolzies. More chance of a wank off the pope than beating United, I'm afraid. It is beyond Benitez, apart from when they were at their lowest ebb, when we knocked them out of the FA Cup. They certainly aren't anywhere near there now.

Offline Zeb

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,571
  • Justice.
Parry jumped the queue Zeb.  ;D

:D

Genuinely delighted about McParland being confirmed (and kudos to the ITKs who confirmed it long before it was official).

A question I've never seen asked or answered I'd like to pose: why was control of the academy removed from the manager? I believe that Souness was the last to have it, which may be the explanation, but was any reason ever given or surmised?
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline Manila Kop

  • TRYING HARD TO FIT IN OOTER
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,540
  • The Greatest Fighter in the World
:D

Genuinely delighted about McParland being confirmed (and kudos to the ITKs who confirmed it long before it was official).

A question I've never seen asked or answered I'd like to pose: why was control of the academy removed from the manager? I believe that Souness was the last to have it, which may be the explanation, but was any reason ever given or surmised?

I'm no expert on the matter, but I think this was around the time the FA came up with the Academy system - they had a white paper on youth development and proposed academies autonomous from the clubs as centers of excellence to spur better coaching at that level. 

I guess the club just followed that on a functional level but I don't think it's an issue with others like Man U and Arsenal, you don't hear Ferguson or Wenger demanding greater control.  It only was with us because of Parry and Rafa's dysfunctional relationship.
The infallible wank stain
Lolzies. More chance of a wank off the pope than beating United, I'm afraid. It is beyond Benitez, apart from when they were at their lowest ebb, when we knocked them out of the FA Cup. They certainly aren't anywhere near there now.

Offline yafoy

  • lazy git - sabu pundit on pot
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,537
  • a RED who occupies Europe
    • EuRED Liverpool UNofficial Supporters Network
Rafa.s got the footy aspects sorted, its the "office" that needs a shake-up now,..
Shanks: "Some people believe football is a matter of life and  death, I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that. - At a football club, there's a holy trinity - the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don't come into it"

Offline Zeb

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,571
  • Justice.
Thanks as ever MK.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline yafoy

  • lazy git - sabu pundit on pot
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,537
  • a RED who occupies Europe
    • EuRED Liverpool UNofficial Supporters Network
Shanks: "Some people believe football is a matter of life and  death, I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that. - At a football club, there's a holy trinity - the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don't come into it"

Offline shelovesyou

  • andyouknow youshouldbe glad OOOOOOH!!!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,251
  • Yes
I'm no expert on the matter, but I think this was around the time the FA came up with the Academy system - they had a white paper on youth development and proposed academies autonomous from the clubs as centers of excellence to spur better coaching at that level. 

I guess the club just followed that on a functional level but I don't think it's an issue with others like Man U and Arsenal, you don't hear Ferguson or Wenger demanding greater control.  It only was with us because of Parry and Rafa's dysfunctional relationship.

Wasnt Parry's brother or son a coach at the Acadamy also ? ?
the easiest way for me to grow as a person is to surround myself with people smarter than I am

Offline shelovesyou

  • andyouknow youshouldbe glad OOOOOOH!!!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,251
  • Yes
Bascombe going on about possible 60m sponsorship deal with Carlsberg in that shitrag today . . . .
the easiest way for me to grow as a person is to surround myself with people smarter than I am

Offline Manila Kop

  • TRYING HARD TO FIT IN OOTER
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,540
  • The Greatest Fighter in the World
Wasnt Parry's brother or son a coach at the Acadamy also ? ?

Yes, that's part of the dysfunctional relationship.  Parry's hiring standards were very different from what Rafa wanted (i.e. getting Hamberg), but because Parry saw the Academy as separate from the manager's remit it created this power struggle eventually resolved in Rafa's new contract.
The infallible wank stain
Lolzies. More chance of a wank off the pope than beating United, I'm afraid. It is beyond Benitez, apart from when they were at their lowest ebb, when we knocked them out of the FA Cup. They certainly aren't anywhere near there now.

Offline yafoy

  • lazy git - sabu pundit on pot
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,537
  • a RED who occupies Europe
    • EuRED Liverpool UNofficial Supporters Network
Shanks: "Some people believe football is a matter of life and  death, I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that. - At a football club, there's a holy trinity - the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don't come into it"

Offline Manila Kop

  • TRYING HARD TO FIT IN OOTER
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,540
  • The Greatest Fighter in the World
Quote from: The Independent
Benitez may today be without Yossi Benayoun, who went on World Cup duty with Israel with a calf injury and has now added a hamstring problem, as well as Sami Hyypia, who has knee problems. Minor problems for an individual whose newly-found grip on the club has allowed him to orchestrate a clear-out of several senior staff at Liverpool's Academy, his own new five-year contract having given him control over that establishment too.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/gerrard-signs-fouryear-deal-on-day-in-court-1662148.html

Anyone know who's been let go from the Academy?
The infallible wank stain
Lolzies. More chance of a wank off the pope than beating United, I'm afraid. It is beyond Benitez, apart from when they were at their lowest ebb, when we knocked them out of the FA Cup. They certainly aren't anywhere near there now.

Offline lfc_bhoy

  • muppet
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,291
  • You is getting twatted, possibilities no-FS
"Because like Bill Shankly, on more days and nights than those expert pundits ever care to recall, he made the people happy."

"There was no other color in the middle of the field except the red of Liverpool"

royhendo

  • Guest
Looks like Redwood32 wasn't the only one thinking along these lines eh? Kenny's proposed role sounds a lot like the one he suggested way back.

royhendo

  • Guest
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2009/04/24/daniel-agger-let-s-clean-up-at-the-back-100252-23463791/2/

Quote
former Reds chief scout Frank McParland is set to be named as Liverpool’s new academy director.

At the start of March McParland was tasked with conducting a review into the under-performing academy and his findings and recommendations have now been passed on to Benitez and club owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett.

Benitez is looking to make urgent improvements to Liverpool’s youth set up and his first major move will be to give McParland a newly created position which will involve overseeing all coaching and recruitment at the academy.

Benitez has spoken on several occasions of the need for the academy to produce more players of first team quality and McParland’s appointment as director will be the first of a series of changes the Reds boss is hoping to implement soon.

royhendo

  • Guest
Just posted this elsewhere, but this'll no doubt be part of the template we're aiming for post-McPartland's report.

---

In issue 33 of "The Technician" there's an interview with the head of Barca's youth programme, Jose Ramon Alexanco.

http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/432338.pdf

 
 

royhendo

  • Guest

Offline Manila Kop

  • TRYING HARD TO FIT IN OOTER
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,540
  • The Greatest Fighter in the World
Gedo also confirmed that Ablett got sacked today...
The infallible wank stain
Lolzies. More chance of a wank off the pope than beating United, I'm afraid. It is beyond Benitez, apart from when they were at their lowest ebb, when we knocked them out of the FA Cup. They certainly aren't anywhere near there now.

royhendo

  • Guest
Wanted to post this here.

Here's what is effectively a translation of the piece that appeared on AS a week or so back:

New Academy Head Looking to re-establish a Liverpool Way

Re-hauling the overall philosophy at the academy. That is the task that Rafael Benitez has set for new academy head Pep Segura who will be looking to see that all teams in the set-up play in a specific manner and with a particular style.

Talking to the Spanish paper AS, Segura said that as the head of the technical areas at the academy, he will be the reference point for all coaching and training sessions. With a large number of staff at the academy being released last week, which included high profile figures like Hughie Macauley and John Owens, it looks like Segura has already set about his job in an area where, yet again, Liverpool seem to have fallen behind.

“Arsenal and Manchester United having been working well with young players for a number of years and Liverpool is now trying to do likewise,” he said.

“At Arsenal, Wenger has had total control [on the academy] for the past fourteen years. The same is now happening at Liverpool where Rafael Benitez is now involved in the day-to-day operations but also in the players’ contracts as well as the technical staff.”

Benitez newly gained power over the academy is evidenced by the fact that Segura was handpicked by him, contrary to what had happened two years back when Piet Hamberg had been appointed. “He (Benitez) asked me what I was doing and at the time I was at out of work. At that point he asked me to come over for a weekend where he told me that he had thought of me for this role. I thought about it for a couple of days and then accepted.”

Having led Olympiakos to a league and cup double, it might seem surprising that Segura has accepted to move back into youth football. Yet, that is where he seems to be most comfortable at.

“I have been in football coaching for the past twenty-six years but only for the past three years have I been working in the senior game. I was the link between Barcelona B and the first team in my final season at the Nou Camp and then spent two years in Greece.”

Given their success in the Champions League with a squad built around home grown players, it is fashionable to try and copy the Barcelona model. That seems to be what Liverpool have gone for and Segura, with eight years of experience at the Catalan giants, seems perfectly suited to do just that.
“One of the keys to success at an academy is to have a clear training and playing ideology throughout the different age-groups so that the players can learn about their positions. Once that’s in place you can leave them on their own.”

“Then there’s the ability to spot players: Messi, Bojan and Iniesta are there because they’re good. True, they came and liked what they saw so they decided to stay at Barcelona. That is also very important.”

“Yet, the secret to continuing with this production line is that everyone knows what their role is, which makes it all easier. Once you have set up the way you work, then year on year you can build on it and get results. I remember that there were some problems when the 4-3-3 style was imposed but they were overcome and the teams play well.”

Which is not to say that clubs with a distinct ideology between the youth and senior set-ups cannot work but, as Segura hints by using Real Madrid as an example, it is more difficult to integrate players into the senior side.

“It is curious because Madrid have a bigger pool from which to choose from than Barcelona and they always have great players. But that is precisely it: Madrid is a factory of individuals but you need to define the philosophy of the club.”
I recall that Angel Pedraza (a former Barcelona and Real Mallorca player) once told me that he wasn’t the best player of his [youth] side but made it to the first team because there was a gap in his role. The same applies to [Sergio] Busquets who is another example of a player who has been trained for a specific role.

It wasn’t a coincidence neither for Pedraza nor for Busquets. They were chosen because they had specific abilities that fitted into the characteristics of a particular position. Lately, I’ve talked a lot about this with Benitez: if you see what way you want to play and are clear about it then you can say that you need a player to play as a 2, 7 or 11 in this or that team. That way everything is better”

“Pedraza was casual about it or is about Busquets. Arrived with a clear profile is set to play and fit into that idea because his features were those of that position. I've commented a lot lately with Benitez: if you look you see a clear way of working what you need: a 2, 7, 11 in this or that team. And you're all the better.”

http://www.aliverpoolthing.com/2009/06/new-academy-head-looking-to-re.html