Author Topic: Lawless Liverpool?  (Read 183833 times)

Offline ianburns252

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1200 on: February 11, 2023, 06:38:45 pm »
I heard my share of racism growing as a teenager in the 00s. My school had a definite divide between those who came in from Toxteth/Wavertree (white, black and brown) who were not racist, and those who came in from Garston/Speke, who were majority white and had a lot more racists. That included some from Garston who were part of the self proclaimed horrible racist scumbags known as the "Mud Men" (one of them - not from my school - got sent down for a racially aggravated murder). I saw more then a few people get "outed" as racists before getting battered, usually by lads from Toxteth/Wavertree way. We were the posher lads from Aigburth/Allerton/Mossley Hill and weren't racist either (liberal middle class), but couldn't count a black or brown friend between us.

I was also a mophead, and spent a lot of time in the centre of town hanging around with all the other mopheads, moshers, goths, etc (:D) who came in from all parts of the city and the Wirral. I heard loads of racism coming from people there, some of it sickening. There was even a gang of out-and-out racist skinheads, the sort that was should have died in the 80s, who would have groups of scals from Toxteth and other places down every week trying to fight them.

Besides Newcastle, Liverpool is probably the whitest major city in the UK. Certainly it is no stranger to racism, despite its anti-establishment credentials. Mix in a good dose of poverty, lack of education and lack of opportunities, and nowadays the additional factor that is the cess pit of social media, and it is a recipe for racist dickheads to breed. Sadly, for every ardent anti-fascist, there is a dickhead racist. I'd have hoped the scales would've tilted more these days though.

If you were hanging around town at that time with the moshers and that we may well have crossed paths back in my skater and emo years.

I guess this is part of the problem is that we, logically, assume that being anti-establishment or having socialist tendencies, or simply being working class should naturally lead to people thinking a certain "right" way.

From my perspective, what these groups tend to become are very tight, close knit, protective sub groups where anyone who is different is shunned - we see it even with the OOT/Local arguements over tickets that border on racist/exclusionary/elitist.

I don't know how best to explain it but Liverpool has a proud anti-England, anti-est, me against the world tradition - and rightly in many ways due to how people from the city can get treated - this too easily leads to issues around race and so on because, with Liverpool being as mono-cultural as it is, there isn't the exposure to people and so they become othered

Offline rob1966

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1201 on: February 12, 2023, 08:26:17 am »
SOS has put up a Facebook post of a pic of a fella on the Kop waving a Refugees Welcome banner. The amount of right wing anti migrant racist gammon replies is fucking depressing.
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Offline ChrisLFCKOP

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1202 on: February 12, 2023, 09:25:49 am »
SOS has put up a Facebook post of a pic of a fella on the Kop waving a Refugees Welcome banner. The amount of right wing anti migrant racist gammon replies is fucking depressing.

Unfortunately with success comes with fans from all over the world who have no connection to the majority of the city and the values the city has.  Also twitter is not a reflection of society as it ruleless atm with Musk in charge.

I am not scouse but I feel I live and breed most of the values (does help living close by and having experienced the city).

Offline DangerScouse

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1203 on: February 12, 2023, 10:11:52 am »
SOS has put up a Facebook post of a pic of a fella on the Kop waving a Refugees Welcome banner. The amount of right wing anti migrant racist gammon replies is fucking depressing.

Saw that. Proud to be a member. Dissenting voices usually the loudest, sadly. Racist vermin.

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1204 on: February 12, 2023, 10:28:59 am »
I find it all extremely disturbing but not surprising. Liverpool as a whole is very multicultural. However the outer suburbs like Knowsley due to extreme deprivation, poverty and lack of opportunities have  been left behind. Those areas are predominantly white working class areas which in some cases haven’t seen a brown face. Naturally this leads to them due to a lack of exposure and education to be easily brainwashed by the far right narrative. I’ve met white people from Kirkby for example that have never eaten Indian food.  This also used to be the case and still is the case in the lot of the North of England. Up and until the early 2000s it was also the case in parts of London such as South East London. Until the councils undertake regeneration of the areas it will only get worse.

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1205 on: February 12, 2023, 12:20:45 pm »
I find it all extremely disturbing but not surprising. Liverpool as a whole is very multicultural. However the outer suburbs like Knowsley due to extreme deprivation, poverty and lack of opportunities have  been left behind. Those areas are predominantly white working class areas which in some cases haven’t seen a brown face. Naturally this leads to them due to a lack of exposure and education to be easily brainwashed by the far right narrative. I’ve met white people from Kirkby for example that have never eaten Indian food.  This also used to be the case and still is the case in the lot of the North of England. Up and until the early 2000s it was also the case in parts of London such as South East London. Until the councils undertake regeneration of the areas it will only get worse.

I don't agree with this. I've lived in Huyton all my life, I don't feel the likes of Huyton, Kirkby, Prescot, Knowsley Village etc are any different to Old Swan, Crosby, Litherland or most suburbs of Liverpool. To say some people haven't seen a brown face is wide of the mark. People from numerous cultures live in Huyton, and in most cases have settled perfectly well into life.
What I would say, some people of a certain age are fundamentally racist which is born out of ignorance. But that is not exclusively centred on suburban Merseyside.
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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1206 on: February 12, 2023, 12:38:29 pm »
As someone who grew up in Knowsley, I am not surprised at all about what happened

Knowsley comes near the top and bottom of every table you don't want to come top and bottom of.

They are still the only county in the entire country that does not offer 6th form or A-Level education within the borough. You basically have to go to Carmel or St Helens college in St Helens or Widnes sixth form in Widnes to get an A-Level education. You have better education opportunities in the Outer Hebrides than you do in Knowsley.

I can attest to the fact that in my entire education from nursery all the way up to the start of A-Levels I probably knew about 2 students that classes themselves within BAME groups. I was very lucky that I was able to go to college and university and was able to be exposed to entirely different people and cultures. I try not to think too much about what path I would have taken had I stayed in the borough (though looking at a few people who I knew back then on Facebook I can guess)

The far right narrative is obviously a lazy media trope fuelled by twitter and Facebook. Knowsley is a labour borough. You wont see a Tory and only a handful of green/Lib dem councillors.

But under labour control, Knowsley has been going backwards for decades and they have been pissing money away on passion projects like the Shakespeare quarter in prescot and housing estates on greenbelt land in whiston that will stretch public services beyond capacity.

There is a whole other conversation that Tory run sefton council blocked the use of Pontins to house asylum seekers whilst labour run Knowsley council did not object or at the very least fund suitable support to allow those being housed to be educated or at the very least supervised whilst going through the legal process

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1207 on: February 12, 2023, 12:43:22 pm »
Until the councils undertake regeneration of the areas it will only get worse.

The problem runs way, way deeper than something local councils can fix.

The whole country is fucked. Thatcher's government switched the focus of the economy to financial services and connected stuff, which concentrated economic activity to London and the SE and some key cities (but those jobs in other cities just employ mostly middle class commuters from surrounding towns)

Whereas once there were jobs a-plenty for young men with moderate-poor academic records that paid decent wages (relative to the majority of the rest of the national workforce), no there aren't. The consumerist society that's emerged, with ads basically telling you that if you don't have the latest fashion/jewellery/car/holiday/etc, you're a failure. Social media amplifies this (FB posts about "just got a new [whatever]"). Then they see reality TV morons with swish lifestyles for doing apparently nothing but being orange and botoxed.

It builds resentment that they're struggling, maxed out on credit cards and unable to afford the things that brands dangle before their eyes. Many (although not all) will work hard. They run and run but can't get anywhere.

They're ripe for malevolent scumbags to exploit with a "Look at those bloody immigrants! They get free hotel, free food, free money, priority NHS treatment. All paid for by our taxes. While you all struggle. Charity should begin at home, the government should spend that money on you" blah-blah.



A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline B0151?

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1208 on: February 12, 2023, 01:19:40 pm »
The problem runs way, way deeper than something local councils can fix.

The whole country is fucked. Thatcher's government switched the focus of the economy to financial services and connected stuff, which concentrated economic activity to London and the SE and some key cities (but those jobs in other cities just employ mostly middle class commuters from surrounding towns)

Whereas once there were jobs a-plenty for young men with moderate-poor academic records that paid decent wages (relative to the majority of the rest of the national workforce), no there aren't. The consumerist society that's emerged, with ads basically telling you that if you don't have the latest fashion/jewellery/car/holiday/etc, you're a failure. Social media amplifies this (FB posts about "just got a new [whatever]"). Then they see reality TV morons with swish lifestyles for doing apparently nothing but being orange and botoxed.

It builds resentment that they're struggling, maxed out on credit cards and unable to afford the things that brands dangle before their eyes. Many (although not all) will work hard. They run and run but can't get anywhere.

They're ripe for malevolent scumbags to exploit with a "Look at those bloody immigrants! They get free hotel, free food, free money, priority NHS treatment. All paid for by our taxes. While you all struggle. Charity should begin at home, the government should spend that money on you" blah-blah.

Don't get me wrong it's a contributing factor but you definitely can't put it all down to that. Racism and bigotry is taught and a lot of the time that is from home. These lads will have racist parents whose parents had racist parents etc. At least that's been my personal experience with people, schoolfriends etc.

Of course there is also a lot of media teaching such things also and the factors you mention come into play there in getting drawn to that. But I really do think home environment is where a lot of it comes from and why it can be so difficult to change especially for the people who stay in same area around similar people all their life

Offline rob1966

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1209 on: February 12, 2023, 01:47:50 pm »
I don't agree with this. I've lived in Huyton all my life, I don't feel the likes of Huyton, Kirkby, Prescot, Knowsley Village etc are any different to Old Swan, Crosby, Litherland or most suburbs of Liverpool. To say some people haven't seen a brown face is wide of the mark. People from numerous cultures live in Huyton, and in most cases have settled perfectly well into life.
What I would say, some people of a certain age are fundamentally racist which is born out of ignorance. But that is not exclusively centred on suburban Merseyside.


I grew up on Tower Hill from 1969 until 1985. I had one black mate at junior school, was friends with a girl who was of Indian decent and we had a fella move near ours who was from the USA who was black and that was it. I honestly cannot remember a brown face at senior school other than those ans there was 2500 kids in our school. We had the chinese chippies on the estate, we ate in China town, but I never ate Indian food until I was almost 30 and that was in Southport, my first time in an Italian restaurant was with my wife when I was 39. So it is correct that there are people in Kirkby who have never mixed outside white people and never eaten anything but English and chinese food.
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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1210 on: February 12, 2023, 02:09:02 pm »
Don't get me wrong it's a contributing factor but you definitely can't put it all down to that. Racism and bigotry is taught and a lot of the time that is from home. These lads will have racist parents whose parents had racist parents etc. At least that's been my personal experience with people, schoolfriends etc.

Of course there is also a lot of media teaching such things also and the factors you mention come into play there in getting drawn to that. But I really do think home environment is where a lot of it comes from and why it can be so difficult to change especially for the people who stay in same area around similar people all their life

Yeah, I don't disagree. They're great points you make.

I was just trying to say that the socio-economic conditions (feeling economically disenfranchised) ripens them for going along with scapegoating and racism.

A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1211 on: February 12, 2023, 02:12:55 pm »
Just been on twitter and saw all the tributes to little Jamie Bulger thirty years since his appalling murder. RIP Jamie and all my thoughts and good wishes go to his family on this day.  :'(
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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1212 on: February 12, 2023, 02:37:19 pm »
Just been on twitter and saw all the tributes to little Jamie Bulger thirty years since his appalling murder. RIP Jamie and all my thoughts and good wishes go to his family on this day.  :'(

Thirty years? Wow.

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1213 on: February 12, 2023, 03:25:59 pm »
Thirty years? Wow.

Horrific how time flies, remember it like it was yesterday.  :(
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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1214 on: February 12, 2023, 03:26:51 pm »
Maybe it's the way I look but Concert Square dealers aaaaalways try to get me attention

not arsed like

Just find it interesting it is so brazen

Offline Only Me

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1215 on: February 12, 2023, 08:26:45 pm »
There’s Defo large areas of the city that had virtually no multiculturalism at all, particularly in the 70s  and early 80s.

At age 11 i lived in a very multicultural area between Chinatown and Toxteth and went from a junior school at the bottom of Chinatown where around 50% of the kids were non white, to a grammar school in Norris Green where literally everyone was white. On the bus in you never saw any non white faces for miles around.

Absolutely blew me mind at the time, and I used to hear horrendously racist shite from lads of all ages in my senior school. I just used to smirk and think you wouldn’t fucking say that round by ours.

Those lads will all have kids now, who will all be on social fucking media. No mystery where the racism comes from.

Offline Jwils21

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1216 on: February 13, 2023, 10:04:16 am »
Maybe it's the way I look but Concert Square dealers aaaaalways try to get me attention

not arsed like

Just find it interesting it is so brazen

I've always found them to be really unusually polite.

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Offline courty61

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1217 on: February 13, 2023, 10:54:39 am »


There is a whole other conversation that Tory run sefton council blocked the use of Pontins to house asylum seekers whilst labour run Knowsley council did not object or at the very least fund suitable support to allow those being housed to be educated or at the very least supervised whilst going through the legal process

Sefton Council isn't Tory run by the way. It's Labour with 48 councillors out of 66.

Southport has a Tory MP which may be the confusion
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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1218 on: February 13, 2023, 11:06:22 am »
I've always found them to be really unusually polite.

"Any sniff boys? No? No worries have a good one fellas!"

They ought to be honest and ask you would you like any crushed paracetamol, but that's for another discussion :D

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1219 on: February 13, 2023, 06:02:58 pm »
Work was fun today. Lasted about two hours before Kirkby was brought up, and there wasn't one person (except me) in the room at the time that didn't agree with what those fucking fascists were up to. It was all "people are getting sick of IT" (what's 'it', Tony?), "you've got nurses not getting raises while we HOUSE THESE PEOPLE" (I don't think this is the reason nurses aren't getting raises, Tony), blah blah blah etc etc etc.

I tried to raise the, y'know, neo-Nazis but I was the only woman there at the time and I quite literally got shouted down. I work about a 10 minute walk away from Aintree station, for context.

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1220 on: February 13, 2023, 06:24:39 pm »
^
Clueless people being played for useful idiots by the far-right.

A tried and tested method that so many fail to see through, despite it being so depressingly obvious.
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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1221 on: February 13, 2023, 08:58:16 pm »
Think I found Tony

<a href="https://youtube.com/v/pdenpoDTEy4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://youtube.com/v/pdenpoDTEy4</a>

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1222 on: February 17, 2023, 09:31:01 pm »
Had to pass the Suites tonight. Dozens of people there, including a lot of 'North Face ninja' types, along with a bit of a police presence. No signs of anything going off.

Me and my daughters still shouted 'racists' as we drove past, mind.

A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1223 on: February 18, 2023, 12:05:18 am »
They're fucking racist beauts mate.

I'm typing this in ours less than a mile from the Suites Hotel. I honestly didn't even know that there were asylum seekers in there until about 10 days ago.

Hadn't seen any by ours and certainly hadn't heard or seen any reports of any "trouble" they'd caused. In fact the first i knew was when i overheard my Mrs and my daughter making fun of some of the ridiculously racist and ill informed posts on a Knowsley forum on Facebook.

i dont do that Social Media shite so i thought the Suites was still a normal hotel. You should have seen some of the garbage being posted though.

Fuckwits all of them.






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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1224 on: February 18, 2023, 11:38:11 am »
Whats happening with this city and society in general?

https://youtu.be/YPkJqRz09kw

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1225 on: February 18, 2023, 03:44:18 pm »
Saw a video of fella outside the hotel having a rant because the prime minister is an Indian and we need someone like Churchill to defend the beaches.

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1226 on: February 19, 2023, 06:18:26 pm »
Whats happening with this city and society in general?

https://youtu.be/YPkJqRz09kw


Call them 'feral' and you'll have misguided plums criticising you for labelling them so.

A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1227 on: February 19, 2023, 07:14:25 pm »

Call them 'feral' and you'll have misguided plums criticising you for labelling them so.

It's a breakdown in law and order for a start. Nobody respects or fears the police anymore. A lost generation (austerity, Tory government, lockdowns etc) who don't fear any consequences and don't need to for the most part.

On another note it's depressing seeing Frottage and all the far right grifters on Twitter and social media egging this Kirkby situation on and stirring the shit.
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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1228 on: February 19, 2023, 07:33:34 pm »
funny how you ever see the police police businesses

Offline courty61

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1229 on: February 22, 2023, 11:37:28 am »
77, 78, 81, 84, 05, 19

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1230 on: February 23, 2023, 08:54:18 am »
I see the kid who famously said "Accrington Stanley, who are they?" on the TV advertisement for milk has just been jailed for life for the murder of Learoy Venner in Belmont Drive, Anfield.

How life pans out, eh. 🫤
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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1231 on: February 23, 2023, 09:47:51 am »
I see the kid who famously said "Accrington Stanley, who are they?" on the TV advertisement for milk has just been jailed for life for the murder of Learoy Venner in Belmont Drive, Anfield.

How life pans out, eh. 🫤

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/22/accrington-stanley-milk-advert-actor-jailed-for-liverpool
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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1232 on: March 13, 2023, 10:37:16 pm »
Knew the other kids dad in that advert.

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1233 on: March 13, 2023, 10:39:50 pm »
Fucking hell.
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

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Offline courty61

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1234 on: March 23, 2023, 03:58:46 pm »
Know we have to be careful as its an ongoing case but following the Olivia Pratt Korbel case on the Echo and I just feel like the CPS have a flimsy case - dunno, just doesn't seem very strong.
77, 78, 81, 84, 05, 19

Offline gazzam1963

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1235 on: March 23, 2023, 06:35:04 pm »
Know we have to be careful as its an ongoing case but following the Olivia Pratt Korbel case on the Echo and I just feel like the CPS have a flimsy case - dunno, just doesn't seem very strong.

Said this earlier to my missus as been following the transcripts on the echo website .

Offline gazzalfc

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1236 on: March 23, 2023, 08:46:39 pm »
Know we have to be careful as its an ongoing case but following the Olivia Pratt Korbel case on the Echo and I just feel like the CPS have a flimsy case - dunno, just doesn't seem very strong.

Yep. No forensics at all.

Also feel the same about the Lucy Letby trial

Offline liversaint

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1237 on: March 23, 2023, 10:54:52 pm »
Said this earlier to my missus as been following the transcripts on the echo website .

Cashman seems very well coached and confident going off what’s reported today in particular.
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You dont win friends with Salad

There is another option. Mr Ferguson organises the fixtures in his office and sends it to us and everyone will know and cannot complain. That is simple.

Offline So… Howard Philips

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1238 on: March 23, 2023, 10:56:32 pm »
Cashman seems very well coached and confident going off what’s reported today in particular.

You don’t get to where him and his type are without the ability to lie convincingly.

Offline liversaint

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #1239 on: March 23, 2023, 11:01:01 pm »
You don’t get to where him and his type are without the ability to lie convincingly.

True enough. Plenty crack in court though . Just hope the case is strong enough as it’s a long way back for Merseyside Police if this goes wrong
You say Honey? I say Fuck off.

You dont win friends with Salad

There is another option. Mr Ferguson organises the fixtures in his office and sends it to us and everyone will know and cannot complain. That is simple.