Topic: The Men in Suits behind the scenes

[CraigDS]

Its true....but it once again probably needs repeating that Brighton are a completely different prospect to us. They can afford to do it because there's no pressure (they've signed 22 players in the last three seasons btw, for the senior squad, the vast majority of whom I doubt many/any of us have heard of, so it does also look fairly scattergun)

Not just that, but the level of quality required to get into their first team is lower, which means they can afford to put players in and give them game time to develop / assess them. We can maybe afford to do that with the odd few over a season, but no where near what Brighton can.

[El Lobo]

Also...

You'd like to think that we're currently earmarking potential players who fit the bill rather than those who are the big name flavour of the month.

Have we ever done that under Klopp?

[Kopenhagen]

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/liverpool-transfers-sporting-director-paul-mitchell-b2306650.html

Anddd not happening.

[The G in Gerrard]

Anddd not happening.

For them or us?

[Kopenhagen]

For them or us?

Delaney just backtracked and said we're not in for him. INEOS want him if they buy United.

[The G in Gerrard]

Delaney just backtracked and said we're not in for him. INEOS want him if they buy United.

That's quicker than us ruling out players

[Dave McCoy]

I really wouldn't get too worked up about the "name" per se in regards to replacing Ward. Especially as recruiting for potential future value and recruiting for playing at a PL/CL winning level right now are different things if we want to believe there is any art still in performing this job. Just really need whoever it is to get in place hopefully ASAP as some fresh set of eyes seem sorely needed.

[Johnny Foreigner]

I really wouldn't get too worked up about the "name" per se in regards to replacing Ward. Especially as recruiting for potential future value and recruiting for playing at a PL/CL winning level right now are different things if we want to believe there is any art still in performing this job. Just really need whoever it is to get in place hopefully ASAP as some fresh set of eyes seem sorely needed.

And that means ? any good candidate for that position would ask for budget/responsibility etc .

[Johnny Foreigner]

Also...

Have we ever done that under Klopp?

VVD for about - dont know - a year

[Dave McCoy]

And that means ? any good candidate for that position would ask for budget/responsibility etc .

Do you have information that Mitchell wasn't given the budget or responsibility he wanted? All I'm seeing is he will go with INEOS to ManU if they win the bid. And even if he was what he's had to recruit for in his career isn't the same as what he would be recruiting for here which is my point. There's no guarantee his methods would translate. I get that you could say it about almost any candidate but that's my point in that it's not so much about who but when.

[LiamG]

Its true....but it once again probably needs repeating that Brighton are a completely different prospect to us. They can afford to do it because there's no pressure (they've signed 22 players in the last three seasons btw, for the senior squad, the vast majority of whom I doubt many/any of us have heard of, so it does also look fairly scattergun)

This, As much as we all probably admire the way Brighton are run, they can certainly take a lot more risks than us, They don't have the "top Club" tax when it comes to transfers either

We should probably look to something like Real Madrid. Signing players like Camavinga, Tchouaméni, Rodrygo, Vinicus but also getting rid of players like Varane, Casemrio and making a hell of a lot of money from selling their academy players 

[El Lobo]

VVD for about - dont know - a year

We signed Van Dijk because he was flavour of the month?

[Draex]

This, As much as we all probably admire the way Brighton are run, they can certainly take a lot more risks than us, They don't have the "top Club" tax when it comes to transfers either

We should probably look to something like Real Madrid. Signing players like Camavinga, Tchouaméni, Rodrygo, Vinicus but also getting rid of players like Varane, Casemrio and making a hell of a lot of money from selling their academy players

The main take aways I can see from Brighton is their focus on the South American market, we appear to be massively behind the curve with regards to this.

It's why FSG should be growing a multi-club type environment so we can take what a team like Brighton does well i.e. the recruitment, but having a solid loan system to get said players the game time needed to progress.

[El Lobo]

Yeah the multi-club thing is a little frustrating that we didn't proceed with as there was speculation we were looking. Goes way back though, I seem to remember we had things with Le Havre and Genk which didn't amount to much....and those clubs have had loads of class 'graduates' since. Maybe when Everton go down we can use them to blood some youngsters.

[Draex]

Yeah the multi-club thing is a little frustrating that we didn't proceed with as there was speculation we were looking. Goes way back though, I seem to remember we had things with Le Havre and Genk which didn't amount to much....and those clubs have had loads of class 'graduates' since. Maybe when Everton go down we can use them to blood some youngsters.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-owners-fsg-linked-another-23196502

Need to move from monitoring to buying!

Hence why the investment needs sorting out, that's the moves we need to make to enable us to compete at the top without a sportswasher sugar daddy.

My ideal scenario is investment comes, for players and for expanding FSG's ownership of some new clubs, Edwards comes back as the Sporting Director for FSG football!

[Jookie]

This, As much as we all probably admire the way Brighton are run, they can certainly take a lot more risks than us, They don't have the "top Club" tax when it comes to transfers either

We should probably look to something like Real Madrid. Signing players like Camavinga, Tchouaméni, Rodrygo, Vinicus but also getting rid of players like Varane, Casemrio and making a hell of a lot of money from selling their academy players 

I agree in principle with this.

However, Real Madrid are virtually guaranteed to be a CL team every season. They can sell a Varane or Casimeiro with the knowledge that any short term drop off is unlikely to make them fall outside the CL places. The competition in Spain has been pretty poor the last few years. Additionally they know they still have the talent and history to make an impression in the CL (even if the league goes wrong -  i.e. come 2nd).

The risk:reward scenario for Liverpool (and the other big English clubs) is different. The competition for CL places is a lot more intense than in La Liga. The competition, in terms of opposition each week, is much better.

So whilst I don't disagree with the premise of following a similar strategy to Real, in terms off recruitment and binning off some players in the 28-32 range to raise money, the risk associated with it is much bigger for Liverpool versus Real.

[Eeyore]

Its true....but it once again probably needs repeating that Brighton are a completely different prospect to us. They can afford to do it because there's no pressure (they've signed 22 players in the last three seasons btw, for the senior squad, the vast majority of whom I doubt many/any of us have heard of, so it does also look fairly scattergun)

I would love you to explain how there is no pressure on Brighton. Was there no pressure when they were getting promoted from Division one or the Championship? Was there no pressure when they fought season after season to stay in the Premier League. Was there no pressure when they were building a new ground and funding it.

Just because they had different expectations doesn't mean there hasn't been pressure. Look how many teams go down the route of dinosaur managers and older experienced players when they are in a relegation battle. I would say bringing in young ambitious coaches and blooding new young players whilst playing attractive football in a relegation battle brings its own pressures.

As for their transfer activity considering the transfers they have paid fees for are almost exclusively for players between 18 and 25 I wouldn't call it scattergun. The major thing though is that as they have improved so has the quality of players they have signed. So given Bloom's incredible data-driven approach, who is to say it won't work at a higher level.

Look at the other club he is an owner of Royale Union Saint-Gilloise, who have gone from nowhere to competing in the CL qualifiers and later stages of the Europa League. I think it is naive to write Brighton off and assume they won't be able to attract a higher-quality of player as they grow as a club. 

[El Lobo]

Getting tickets fro Euro 96, then a Macdonalds.

[sattapaartridge]

Personally, I believe its riskIER to buy big budget talent, like say Bellingham and Nunez. Players like VVD, Allison, Fabinho had more pedigree, but there is always an element of risk when buying a player.

But this is where scouts earn their money. The data analysts and the scouts have to work together to identify targets, but also when the players have been signed, and its not working, we have to be quicker in shipping them out. If we bought 4 players of a total fee of £40mill, with wages totaling £200kpw, I dont really see the financial risk. The risk would be actually playing them in the first team. As Bajcetic gets games ahead of the likes of Milner, Ox and Keita, you have to question why we dont have more waiting in the wings, be it from the u21's or in the wider squad.

[newterp]

Great pic - one dude is wearing winter gear, another is shirtless.

[Knight]

Also...

Have we ever done that under Klopp?

Depends how you define that phrase. Van Dijk was certainly the must have CB when we got him. Allisson was the no. 1 GK in the world. Nunez was attracting a bunch of interest.

[El Lobo]

Depends how you define that phrase. Van Dijk was certainly the must have CB when we got him. Allisson was the no. 1 GK in the world. Nunez was attracting a bunch of interest.

Considering it was in a paragraph talking about Uniteds consistent failings over the last decade with big name signings and players losing motivation (or never having it), I'd suggest it was along the lines of the likes of Di Maria, Lukaku, Ronaldo etc. Rather than good players who were performing well at good teams without truly breaking out, before their peak age. Like VVD, or Allison, or Nunez.

[Dim Glas]

Depends how you define that phrase. Van Dijk was certainly the must have CB when we got him. Allisson was the no. 1 GK in the world. Nunez was attracting a bunch of interest.

he was?

He had played 1 full season in Europe at that point. And yes, that’s not the world, but the strongest leagues are there, and  I don’t believe he was considered the number 1 goalie in Europe at the time.  He became that here.

Also as an aside, the word ‘bunch’ to describe a lot is one of my biggest hates in American English - Nothing to do with the topic, just wanted to put that out there 

[Draex]

he was?

He had played 1 full season in Europe at that point. And yes, that’s not the world, but the strongest leagues are there, and  I don’t believe he was considered the number 1 goalie in Europe at the time.  He became that here.

Also as an aside, the word ‘bunch’ to describe a lot is one of my biggest hates in American English - Nothing to do with the topic, just wanted to put that out there 

Probably more about who wanted him, wasn't it Real and Chelsea? You could argue Van Dijk wasn't the worlds best defender until he'd come here.

[Dim Glas]

Probably more about who wanted him, wasn't it Real and Chelsea? You could argue Van Dijk wasn't the worlds best defender until he'd come here.

I honestly can't remember! I do remember being bemused by the size of the transfer fee for him at the time 
 

[FlashGordon]

Probably more about who wanted him, wasn't it Real and Chelsea? You could argue Van Dijk wasn't the worlds best defender until he'd come here.

Don't think Real were linked. Think it was just between the big clubs in the PL.

[Draex]

Don't think Real were linked. Think it was just between the big clubs in the PL.

100% Real were interested in him to replace Navas.

[FlashGordon]

100% Real were interested in him to replace Navas.

Sorry didn't realise you were on about Alisson, saw Van Dijk's name and assumed it was him 

[Sir Capon of Debaser]

WerentJan Oblak and Manuel Neuer considered the best GKs at the time?  Dont remember any talk of Allison being discussed as the best in the world when we played Roma the year before. infact id go as far as to say he wasnt being talked aboot as being anywhere near

[killer-heels]

WerentJan Oblak and Manuel Neuer considered the best GKs at the time?  Dont remember any talk of Allison being discussed as the best in the world when we played Roma the year before. infact id go as far as to say he wasnt being talked aboot as being anywhere near

Yep there wasnt a big fanfare about him at the time, albeit all the reports were that he was quality. At the time a lot of people wanted Oblak.

However when talking about big, established players, Fabinho, Van Dijk and Salah are up there as us buying close to the ready made, top player.

[Sir Capon of Debaser]

Yep there wasnt a big fanfare about him at the time, albeit all the reports were that he was quality. At the time a lot of people wanted Oblak.

However when talking about big, established players, Fabinho, Van Dijk and Salah are up there as us buying close to the ready made, top player.

Yep, from what i remember a lot of people baulked at the price saying for that money go for Oblak. Seem to also remember a lot preferring Kepa who signed for chelsea as loads on here had been raving aboot him the previous months

[RedG13]

he was?

He had played 1 full season in Europe at that point. And yes, that’s not the world, but the strongest leagues are there, and  I don’t believe he was considered the number 1 goalie in Europe at the time.  He became that here.

Also as an aside, the word ‘bunch’ to describe a lot is one of my biggest hates in American English - Nothing to do with the topic, just wanted to put that out there 

He was signed as the most expensive keeper ever before Kepa took that right after.
I dont think considered he was the #1 in the world but he considered be one of the best keepers at the time.

[newterp]

He was signed as the most expensive keeper ever before Kepa took that right after.
I dont think considered he was the #1 in the world but he considered be one of the best keepers at the time.

didnt we have to pay a bit of premium due to buying Salah a year earlier.

[classycarra]

didnt we have to pay a bit of premium due to buying Salah a year earlier.

no, just because of his place as one of the best keepers around and because he was the hottest GK property on the market that year - with both the Champion's League finalists negotiating for him.

thankfully for us, Real waited for Courtois (and his partner from Madrid) to force his move through and so we were able to make our move before Chelsea could flash cash (as they did eventually, breaking the transfer record on Kepa)

[TepidT2O]

Yep, from what i remember a lot of people baulked at the price saying for that money go for Oblak. Seem to also remember a lot preferring Kepa who signed for chelsea as loads on here had been raving aboot him the previous months

I think the general press and footie fan was saying that yes.

But when Alisson signed, I did hear goalie experts saying he was a special talent…he’d not had much time as a first team goalie in Europe don’t forget  he was only at Roma two seasons and was back up goalie the first season so didn’t play.  So no one had seen him play much when we got linked

[Eeyore]

I think the general press and footie fan was saying that yes.

But when Alisson signed, I did hear goalie experts saying he was a special talent…he’d not had much time as a first team goalie in Europe don’t forget  he was only at Roma two seasons and was back up goalie the first season so didn’t play.  So no one had seen him play much when we got linked

Yeh that is what I remember as well.

I know that his metrics for Roma were excellent. His goals conceded compared to the chances he was facing were off the scale.

[RedG13]

Yep, from what i remember a lot of people baulked at the price saying for that money go for Oblak. Seem to also remember a lot preferring Kepa who signed for chelsea as loads on here had been raving aboot him the previous months

The Problem with Oblak he cant play football. he a great stop stopper but ask him to cover space and pass, he awful. Klopp was not signing a Line Keeper.

[Knight]

Some of this is revisionism. Van Dijk hadn’t ‘broken out’? What does that even mean. We spent £75 million on him and every top team in the PL wanted him. We weren’t buying him for potential. He was a peak level CB at his peak age.

Allison was a world record for a keeper at that point, he might not have been perceived as the best keeper in the world but he was certainly thought of as an elite level GK worth spending more on than any other goalkeeper ever.

No they weren’t prima donas already playing at top level clubs but they were undoubtedly treated as players of the very top drawer. In that they’re much like Bellingham. Not currently playing for a very top team but accepted by nearly everyone as one of the best players on their position around.

[TepidT2O]

Yeh that is what I remember as well.

I know that his metrics for Roma were excellent. His goals conceded compared to the chances he was facing were off the scale.

He was also one of the top players in the league for successful take ons….

[FLRed67]

Real wanted Alisson. Alisson wanted Real.

Klopp wanted Oblak. No one knows what Oblak wanted. He doesn't talk much. And he doesn't like people who talk too much. They annoy him.