Topic: Does Kevin Keegan get enough recognition for what he achieved at Liverpool?

[John C]

There's an interview with Keegan on LFCTV today, should be excellent and insightful for those that don't understand or appreciate how much of an amazing man he was and what he contributed to making the club what it is today.

[Fazakerley Red]

I think someone else may of been Liddelpool's first superstar.

no billy wasnt because there was little or no television , i mean superstar IE television being widely known , brut ads ETC ETC  the first superstar the club had , billy was a superstar your correct but not on the scale of kevin .

[Fazakerley Red]

Keegan was fantastic. Along with Emlyn he was the inspiration for Shanks new team winning titles in 73 and our first European Trophy.

One of the best I've seen.

correct very true

[bigbear]

In terms of playing style Suarez is similar .....but Keegan's all-action, goal scoring heroics put him in a different class. Years ahead of his time in several ways - his tirelesss work ethic allied to his skill was the epitomy of what made LFC such a force in Europe.

Keegan was never a massive goalscorer though, in his day the goals were very much shared around the team. He would probably get 15-20 but Tosh, Heighway, Ray Ken would all be in there with 10 plus.

He was a massive team player, brave as a lion and for his size was one of the very best headers of the ball you could ever wish to see. I used to practice his diving headers into the entry goals.

[jillcwhomever]

Very lucky man. If he hadn't been replaced by such an amazing player he would have copped a fuck of a lot of flak for fucking us off for Hamburg.
Lots of revisionist shite on this thread, but the winner is vishy for that utterly embarrassing comparison to Fowler.

Sorry but that is bollocks. Keegan was honest with the club from the start with regard his move abroad, we had all season to find a replacement, once we'd won the cup in Rome, as far as I was concerned he'd kept his side of the bargain. Your last sentence is just plain embarrassing, this is a forum everyone has a right to an opinion, and actually there is nothing wrong in what vishy said. Kevin won so many things for us he was a vital cog in the wheel of a number of great teams in his time here, yet he is given very little recognation for that. That is just plain wrong, we live in a world were we are encouraged to believe that real football only started when Sky barged their way through, try looking at the number of championship medals Kevin and his generation won. 

[FlashingBlade]

I dont think its revisionist at all...Keegans importance has never been in doubt and if time means younger Liverpool fans dont appreciate it , thats their issue...Keegan did get loads of stick at the time, but things where so wonderful then it healed incredibly quickly....although there was immense gloating at the Hamburg Super cup game if I recall.

[Gaz123456]

A true superstar who helped make Liverpool a globally known club.

[Shanks1965]

shanks? just dont think you can judge players from different eras like that,  totally different game, an the players are so much fitter now allegedly.

Good point mate and yes its a totally different game as you say.

Comparing players from different era's is very difficult, arguably impossible and probably unfair. So much is different now. As you say fitness but also diet, tactics, playing surfaces, technology etc etc. The one thing I think you can compare is a players contribution compared to those around him and the impact he had on the team and the game at the time.

Kevin Keegan, for me at least, stands head and shoulders above most in that regard. His presence in the Liverpool team he played in probably made us the team we were at the time. He was that good in my view. A player not gifted with natural ability (like Suarez) but one who made up for it with work rate, determination, courage and practice to improve which he did during his years with us. Suarez may become a great player for us if he sticks around long enough. He certainly has the necessary attributes. For me though Kevin is right up there with the best and MOST IMPORTANT of his era.

[Yorkykopite]

Very lucky man. If he hadn't been replaced by such an amazing player he would have copped a fuck of a lot of flak for fucking us off for Hamburg.
Lots of revisionist shite on this thread, but the winner is vishy for that utterly embarrassing comparison to Fowler.

You're getting a bit beaten up for this one 5th so it's with great reluctance I throw another punch. We were all amazed, despondent, incredulous that our best player could announce that he wanted to leave the best club in the world. But he was open and honest about it and in his last season he gave his all - often in  the teeth of latent hostility at Anfield - to help bring us to the brink of a unique treble. He also allowed us to parlay £35,000 into half a million (and we think we did well by doubling Torres's transfer fee!)

Robbie was an excellent player for us but he wasn't as good as Keegan. He didn't have the same commitment as Kevin when it came to looking after himself and ensuring that when he pulled on a Red jersey he was the fittest man on the pitch. Maybe if Fowler had had Shanks as his boss instead of Evans he would have concentrated on the football a bit more and become more focussed.

As for Kenny's effect on KK's legacy - if anything it made us 'forget' him, not 'forgive' him. There was nothing to forgive.

[The 5th Benitle]

I'm genuinely shocked by that. Why was he lucky?

Hi John
I meant he was lucky that he was replaced by such a legend, which meant the fans could get over him leaving quickly, ie keeping his legacy intact if you like. I am a big fan of his to be honest, have met him and really liked him.
It made sense to me at the time

[The 5th Benitle]

You're getting a bit beaten up for this one 5th so it's with great reluctance I throw another punch.

Ooh you got that one in just before I explained what I meant
But ok, happy to stand corrected on the terms of his leaving. As you'll have seen from the Gerrard thread, and from countless Alonso love-ins, I don't like people even thinking about leaving

[paulrazor]

Its simply cos of some jock who replaced him. Kenny somethin.

Kevin keegan is a legend. Never forget it

[amir87]

Ooh you got that one in just before I explained what I meant
But ok, happy to stand corrected on the terms of his leaving. As you'll have seen from the Gerrard thread, and from countless Alonso love-ins, I don't like people even thinking about leaving

People must love coming round yours for dinner... 

[Yorkykopite]

Ooh you got that one in just before I explained what I meant
But ok, happy to stand corrected on the terms of his leaving. As you'll have seen from the Gerrard thread, and from countless Alonso love-ins, I don't like people even thinking about leaving

Nor do I mate. And it was especially hard in 1977 because it had never happened before.

It's worth remembering too that for most of that season the rumour was that he would be going to Real Madrid, which seemed reasonable if still painful. That he ended up at Hamburg (who?) was astonishing. Was he that desperate to get away?

His almost immediate return to Anfield in Hamburg in colours laid a ghost too. Six goals to nil applied a balm of sorts.

[jillcwhomever]

There's an interview with Keegan on LFCTV today, should be excellent and insightful for those that don't understand or appreciate how much of an amazing man he was and what he contributed to making the club what it is today.

Not only that but the hour before there is an interview with his partner in crime Tosh as well. What a great Saturday night in, they should interview them together and try the cards again!

[The 5th Benitle]

Robbie was an excellent player for us but he wasn't as good as Keegan. He didn't have the same commitment as Kevin when it came to looking after himself and ensuring that when he pulled on a Red jersey he was the fittest man on the pitch. Maybe if Fowler had had Shanks as his boss instead of Evans he would have concentrated on the football a bit more and become more focussed.

Sure. I didn't like the 'beat one guy up in order to praise another' thing though. It's like people who criticise Adam to praise Lucas, or vice versa. I just don't understand the need for it. That's what I meant was embarrassing. I'm very aware that Keegan was a great servant to the club.

[The 5th Benitle]

People must love coming round yours for dinner... 

My cellar is rather full

[FlashingBlade]

As great as Keegan was , there where moments.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf-4Gbqyni4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-JtHe3hGUs

[robbie-scouse]

“I went over to see Robbie in Liverpool. I risked getting my tyres nicked and my wheels gone to talk to Robbie and his wife".

Not really the words of a Liverpool legend.

[jaffod]

Keegan was my first hero in a red shirt. Absolutely loved him, he was at the heart of everything we achieved as a club until he left. 2 goals in both the 1973 & 1976 UEFA Cup finals, 2 against Newcastle at Wembley and a massive contribution to our first European cup win.
 Strangely enough I don't recall my feelings towards him when he left, it's all been lost with the passage of time.
 As to the question of whether he gets enough recognition, I think he was unlucky (but luckily for us) that Kenny was his replacement. It was clear from day one we had signed an absolute gem and I reckon that helped take most of the sting out of Keegan going.

[Pistolero]

“I went over to see Robbie in Liverpool. I risked getting my tyres nicked and my wheels gone to talk to Robbie and his wife".

Not really the words of a Liverpool legend.

Yes because obviously everything he achieved with us, every kid he inspired and the legacy he left is cancelled out by one flippant one liner a couple of decades later.

[vivabobbygraham]

“I went over to see Robbie in Liverpool. I risked getting my tyres nicked and my wheels gone to talk to Robbie and his wife".

Not really the words of a Liverpool legend.

Yeah, mate, he has always put his foot in his mouth, there is a fine collection of Keeganballs available.

Forgive him that cos as a Liverpool player his feet did the talking and we were a far better team for that.

[rushyman]

Not nearly enough. He was awesome and at his peak

His replacement is possibly the reason

[larrylimestreet]

No - he was brilliant, but became quite mercenary so people lost their love for him

[jillcwhomever]

Kevin's interview on now, really looking forward to this.

[gregorio]

... and also when he talks about us in the media he doesn't show any major bias towards us. Maybe it compounds the view that he never truly loved Liverpool. But in the main I think he's quite fair when speaking about us.

Maybe he was the Fernando Torres of his era! He also maybe gives us an idea of how Torres will be remembered by our supporters in 20-30 years.

Notice I am not drawing a parallel with Michael Owen. I think Owen will be despised by many forever!

can't agree with that, haven't you read his first autobiography, he idolised Shanks

I think he let a lot of people down with his cosying up to Thatcher though

[its cold in the stands]

that was great that, he really came across well.
when i was walking home from the game before my face was beetroot and i could feel it burning, i was stressed to f##k and i was thinking to myself f##king hell i can do without this at my age, but watching that has reminded me why i support this club.
what a great player he was, you forget he was only 20 when he transformed that side, on 40 quid a week and he led a side that had finished 5th the two previous seasons, both times finishing 15 points behind the eventual champions everton and arsenal (and 15 points in the 2 points for a win days was miles), he led them to finish 1 point behind the champions and in fact if emlyns goal at highbury would have stood on the last day of the season we would have won the title.
that was his first season.
he was 20 and leading from the front, first game no one had heard of him by his 5th game everyone had heard of him and by the time he left here he was one of the best footballers in the world and he had transformed the club.
the word legend gets thrown around too much these days, any player who puts in decent service for the club gets called a legend, kevin keegan is a 100% as big as they get legend for this club.

[jillcwhomever]

can't agree with that, haven't you read his first autobiography, he idolised Shanks

I think he let a lot of people down with his cosying up to Thatcher though

The only thing that matters is when he had a red shirt on he gave everything for the team, which he did.

Good interview with Kevin said plenty of positive things, about the club, he obviously adored Shanks, and at the end of the programme, said that what he learnt at Liverpool set him up for the man he became in football. He had very good memories of his early days at the club remembers the street were his first digs were, and mentions the guy who became a close friend of his who drove him around, before he got his first car.

Considering he had only just signed for the club, it was amazing that he got his debut chance in the first team so soon, infact just after they'd finished the pre season. He scored a goal on his debut against Forest, one that was made for him by Tosh and went on from there. I find it interesting that he had little memories of his goals, in fact he claimed that few of them would of won any goal of the season competitions. He loved Shanks said that all of the players thought the world of him.  Interesting little story about the FA Cup final of 1974, said all Shanks did before the game, was to pin Malcolm McDonald's interview on the wall, and told the players to all read it. As Kevin said no one needed any motivation after that, they just went out determined to prove a point.

Also said that he felt he needed the challenge of going abroad, to try football in a different environment, though had a hazy memory of Hamburg's game at Liverpool the next season, though Terry Mc apparantly likes to remind him of all the goals he scored!

Funny little story about the time him and Tosh were given the contest with the coloured cards. Kevin said he was terrible only got one right, but Tosh got four out of five. Said to Tosh that was amazing you must be telepathic then Tosh told him that he could actually see the colours of the card through the camera lens, he hadn't even thought to look at the lens himself!  Kevin said Tosh was a really intelligent player, although they never had a night out together in all their time as team mates, but he was an easy player to play with because they both kept it simple, maybe still a lesson for today.  Was very respectful of Kenny, and thought that the two of them could of played in the same team, as good players can always find a way to do that.   

[jillcwhomever]

that was great that, he really came across well.
when i was walking home from the game before my face was beetroot and i could feel it burning, i was stressed to f##k and i was thinking to myself f##king hell i can do without this at my age, but watching that has reminded me why i support this club.
what a great player he was, you forget he was only 20 when he transformed that side, on 40 quid a week and he led a side that had finished 5th the two previous seasons, both times finishing 15 points behind the eventual champions everton and arsenal (and 15 points in the 2 points for a win days was miles), he led them to finish 1 point behind the champions and in fact if emlyns goal at highbury would have stood on the last day of the season we would have won the title.
that was his first season.
he was 20 and leading from the front, first game no one had heard of him by his 5th game everyone had heard of him and by the time he left here he was one of the best footballers in the world and he had transformed the club.
the word legend gets thrown around too much these days, any player who puts in decent service for the club gets called a legend, kevin keegan is a 100% as big as they get legend for this club.

I liked the story about the wages, the club offered him just thirty quid to start off with at the first meeting, but he actually stood up and claimed he was getting that at Scunthorpe, so Shanks turned round and offered him forty quid, Peter Robinson and John Smith must of been bricking it! But you are right for him to have forced himself into the first time after just the pre-season when he was that young proves how dynamic he must of been right from the off.

I totally agree with you about how players today get branded into legends far too easily these days, some of them couldn't hold a candle to the likes of Kevin. Also the players had far more pride then they do now, after all if you are all on thousands of pounds every week where is the motivation for playing well, as you get it whether you win or you don't.  Try and catch the interview with Tosh mate, that was good too.     

[its cold in the stands]

I liked the story about the wages, the club offered him just thirty quid to start off with at the first meeting, but he actually stood up and claimed he was getting that at Scunthorpe, so Shanks turned round and offered him forty quid, Peter Robinson and John Smith must of been bricking it! But you are right for him to have forced himself into the first time after just the pre-season when he was that young proves how dynamic he must of been right from the off.

I totally agree with you about how players today get branded into legends far too easily these days, some of them couldn't hold a candle to the likes of Kevin. Also the players had far more pride then they do now, after all if you are all on thousands of pounds every week where is the motivation for playing well, as you get it whether you win or you don't.  Try and catch the interview with Tosh mate, that was good too.     

funny enough that john keith the local journo tells the story about shankly`s reaction to kevin asking for more money, shankly called him a cheeky so and so but privately apparently shankly was made up because it proved kevin was his own man and he had a bit about him.
it was players like keegan that built the legend of this club, when he was king of the kop anfield became fortress anfield, great teams like bayern munich with their beckenbauers and barcelona with their cruyff`s were beaten, great players like gordon banks and billy bremner felt honoured to be applauded by the crowd and of course a lot of the trophys that make up a huge part of our history were won in that era.
it`s just great to see those old legends being interviewed, that keegan one goes down as one of my favourites along with the tommy lawrence, billy stevo, peter cormack ones etc
i`d like to see roger hunt and peter thompson interviewed and i`d like to see souness interviewed as well.
i`ve taped both the keegan and the toshack interviews on v+ so i`ll watch the toshack one tomorrow.

[gkmacca]

I saw him play quite a bit in his last season, and he was often in a bad mood due in part to Joey Jones' failure to be Alec Lindsay - every time Joey mishit a pass to him he'd tell him exactly what he thought of it. That's the thing about Kevin - his bad moods are as infectious as his good ones, and there were some tense atmospheres during that season. But he was a great player for us - inspired at times and always such a fighter. He deserves an ovation whenever he visits the club.

[jillcwhomever]

funny enough that john keith the local journo tells the story about shankly`s reaction to kevin asking for more money, shankly called him a cheeky so and so but privately apparently shankly was made up because it proved kevin was his own man and he had a bit about him.
it was players like keegan that built the legend of this club, when he was king of the kop anfield became fortress anfield, great teams like bayern munich with their beckenbauers and barcelona with their cruyff`s were beaten, great players like gordon banks and billy bremner felt honoured to be applauded by the crowd and of course a lot of the trophys that make up a huge part of our history were won in that era.
it`s just great to see those old legends being interviewed, that keegan one goes down as one of my favourites along with the tommy lawrence, billy stevo, peter cormack ones etc
i`d like to see roger hunt and peter thompson interviewed and i`d like to see souness interviewed as well.
i`ve taped both the keegan and the toshack interviews on v+ so i`ll watch the toshack one tomorrow.

Kevin obviously admired Peter Thompson made it quite clear in the interview, I missed the Peter Thompson era, started being taken to the games just as Bob took over, but he was a player I would of liked to have seen, though Stevie Heighway wasn't a bad player either. But I love the understated way these players had about their talent, it was the golden age as far as I was concerned before all the Sky bollocks came and made the game a very different spectecle. 

[jillcwhomever]

I saw him play quite a bit in his last season, and he was often in a bad mood due in part to Joey Jones' failure to be Alec Lindsay - every time Joey mishit a pass to him he'd tell him exactly what he thought of it. That's the thing about Kevin - his bad moods are as infectious as his good ones, and there were some tense atmospheres during that season. But he was a great player for us - inspired at times and always such a fighter. He deserves an ovation whenever he visits the club.

I think they have a Joey Jones interview on, wednesday I think, I loved the guy so full of running and that pride in the shirt he had, loved the way he'd get carried away, and clenching his fist to the Kop. I use to watch Bob sometimes and at times he'd be screaming his lungs off at him, but Joey was a player you couldn't stay mad at for long. A player who really loved the game, when I watch some players today you wonder if they get the same enjoyment out of it. 

[gkmacca]

I think they have a Joey Jones interview on, wednesday I think, I loved the guy so full of running and that pride in the shirt he had, loved the way he'd get carried away, and clenching his fist to the Kop. I use to watch Bob sometimes and at times he'd be screaming his lungs off at him, but Joey was a player you couldn't stay mad at for long. A player who really loved the game, when I watch some players today you wonder if they get the same enjoyment out of it. 

Yes. I remember Jimmy Case talking about his goal in the 77 FA Cup Final - he said he knew when Joey aimed a long ball at Keegan it generally went over his head, so Jimmy anticipated where it was going and got into the position for his shot. But Joey was a hell of a tackler.

[its cold in the stands]

Kevin obviously admired Peter Thompson made it quite clear in the interview, I missed the Peter Thompson era, started being taken to the games just as Bob took over, but he was a player I would of liked to have seen, though Stevie Heighway wasn't a bad player either. But I love the understated way these players had about their talent, it was the golden age as far as I was concerned before all the Sky bollocks came and made the game a very different spectecle. 

thompson is the most skillfull player ever to play for the club but he didnt have the end product of say a barnes.
he once played for england in the maracana stadium against brazil and the brazillian crowd loved him, thompson and brazil`s flair players like pele were in a battle to see who had the best skills and thompson apparently brought the house down.
funny enough bobby charlton mentions the game in one of his books and said thompsons performance on the day in the maracana was one of the most amazing performances he`d ever seen in his life.
you dont get players like thompson these days, he learnt his skills kicking a tennis ball around the streets, these days they`d coach that type of flair out of a player.
sky has turned footballers into soap stars and celebritys

[jillcwhomever]

thompson is the most skillfull player ever to play for the club but he didnt have the end product of say a barnes.
he once played for england in the maracana stadium against brazil and the brazillian crowd loved him, thompson and brazil`s flair players like pele were in a battle to see who had the best skills and thompson apparently brought the house down.
funny enough bobby charlton mentions the game in one of his books and said thompsons performance on the day in the maracana was one of the most amazing performances he`d ever seen in his life.
you dont get players like thompson these days, he learnt his skills kicking a tennis ball around the streets, these days they`d coach that type of flair out of a player.
sky has turned footballers into soap stars and celebritys

I don't know any Liverpool fan who saw Thompson play not be an admirer of his skills. An interesting insight by you there.

Going back to players of today though what irritates me about so many of them, is they are too easily satisfied with their own efforts. They live on the hype that the media duly oozes about them. The thing about a player like Kevin was he never stopped learning, and really worked at his talent. Even his going to Hamburg was about the fact that he wanted a new challenge, how many players do that today? They get so much money, that instead of kicking on, they just rest on their laurels, knowing their friends in the media will go on bigging them up whether they deserve it or not.

[John C]

No - he was brilliant, but became quite mercenary so people lost their love for him

You mean he left? Or that he played for a coupe of clubs?
The title asks if people really understand what he did for us, he was part of the foundations that we are now - forget what he did after 1977, where would we be now without his contribution?

[Terry de Niro]

You mean he left? Or that he played for a coupe of clubs?
The title asks if people really understand what he did for us, he was part of the foundations that we are now - forget what he did after 1977, where would we be now without his contribution?

Totally agree.
As has been said, he gave us a full season before he decided to depart.
He helped us win 3 League titles, 2 UEFA cups, an FA cup and 1 European cup.
Fuck me, if that isn't legendary and recognition I don't know what is...

[Fowllah]

Always been too pro Newcastle for me to have true legendary status. same with Terry Mac. They have both said Newcastle is their club, which is fair enough but I won't hold them in as much affection as other legends.

[gkmacca]

When Terry Mac (who hardly ever gets the respect he deserves these days) was on LFCTV he stressed that he would always remain a Red. Keegan said LFC and Newcastle were the two clubs in his heart.