Topic: Steve McManaman - Legend or big time charlie????????

[Armin]

Neither. He was a very good player for a while, once we found his best position, but not quite great. Couldn't kick a ball hard enough to shoot or cross consistently well, but very intelligent and made us tick.

That's bang on, he never really put his foot through the ball but he had great ability when placing it.

[JamesG L4]

Neither. He was a very good player for a while, once we found his best position, but not quite great. Couldn't kick a ball hard enough to shoot or cross consistently well, but very intelligent and made us tick. I don't have an expectation that every player who ever played for us should only ever say nice, uncritical things.

Suppose everyone will have fluid ideas on what 'great' means, but if Alonso is even approaching world class then MacManaman must be considered in the bracket of great. If he was surrounded by the players he would have been achieved much more. His fellow midfielders (Redknapp, Ince, Barnes (in the middle) and turd like Leonardson, MacAteer did not help. For me he carried us for three of four seasons. As I say, in our team now he would elevate us to the same level as Man U or Chelsea.

[gamble]

he was one of our best players in the 90s, never reached his potential with us like the other players at the time. as a footballer i think he proved himself at real, with 2 european cups especially with the first where he played a big part that year.

however, i think he comes across a right tosser. he's always worked hard on this image that he's an intellectual - not just a scally. in the 90s he had a regular column in the times (i think -can't remember which paper exactly), his agent was that tosser simon fuller and think he just followed totally in that path.

who really cares though?? a lot of the players from his time won't be remembered in a few years.

[Aldridge 8]

if mc manaman is great what is dalglish, souness, and the likes ?

[kmo1969]

if mc manaman is great what is dalglish, souness, and the likes ?

Exactly. He doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as these top, top players. Don't get me wrong he was a decent player but was not in their league IMHO.

[Durango]

Prick,what ex Red says is favourite Ground is Goodison and would like to raise his kids as Evertonians!!!

[rushyman]

Was the melody in the team. Brilliant for us

to be honest the hate him and Owen get really should be reserved for Diouf

Now THERE is a complete gobshite tosser. He would get a smack that cheeky, respectless, dirty tramp.

McManaman and Owens departure left a bad taste in the mouth yeah, but it was there loss. In Owens case unbelievably so. Left to win CL the very year we won it and was even on the bench v Graz away

Even Stevie gets shit from some, which, to be frank, is just fucking pathetic. So I suppose these two have no chance

[Aldridge 8]

Was the melody in the team. Brilliant for us

to be honest the hate him and Owen get really should be reserved for Diouf

Now THERE is a complete gobshite tosser. He would get a smack that cheeky, respectless, dirty tramp.

McManaman and Owens departure left a bad taste in the mouth yeah, but it was there loss. In Owens case unbelievably so. Left to win CL the very year we won it and was even on the bench v Graz away

Even Stevie gets shit from some, which, to be frank, is just fucking pathetic. So I suppose these two have no chance

owen and mc manaman deserve stick for shafting the fans and club

[Rhino]

To give him credit I'd give anything for him in peak form right now in our midfield, along side Masch and Gerrard we'd have everything. Never seen a player beat a man with so little effort, he positively looked stoned compared to Ronaldo. He grew up around the corner from me, and for somebody from Brimstage Road to score the winner in a European Cup for Real Madrid, a volley from outside the box for goodness sake, is quite an achievement. Still got offensive thighs though.

How's the 2nd in a 3-0 win 'the winner'

The mans a tosser of the highest order

[KopJemma83]

Good Player...

But absolute nobhead!
There was a clip of him on the telly bout a year ago and he was at abook signing, some1 said to him "you've played at some of the best stadiums in the world, Anfield, The Bernabeu, Nou Camp.  What is the best stadium you've played at?"

His Answer.......

Goodison!!! 

[Chindits]

He was like an aldi shopping bag perfectly good at its job,but thought he was a sainsbury's one.

[rushyman]

owen and mc manaman deserve stick for shafting the fans and club

Absolutely know what youre saying and was fucking seething with them both at the time and for a while after. But I just get on with supporting us, I never supported them just the team they played for. They are history now. As I said, it was their loss

[JamesG L4]

How's the 2nd in a 3-0 win 'the winner'

The mans a tosser of the highest order

Sorry, I take it back. Shite achievement.

Right, let's get back to worshipping ex-reds who have nothing but positive things to say.

He was never a Liverpool fan, never said he was, never said he'd turned like Owen, Fowler and Carra. He was a blue, is a blue, and always will be a blue. He was a great player for us in the context of the 90s as without him we would have been even more ordinary.

You can all sit here now, with European Cup finals coming out of our arse , but back then he was one of the most positive things to believe in. Ask the question back in the mid 90s and I guarantee most of the arl arses on here would say he was a great player.

[Rhino]

Sorry, I take it back. Shite achievement.

Right, let's get back to worshipping ex-reds who have nothing but positive things to say.

He was never a Liverpool fan, never said he was, never said he'd turned like Owen, Fowler and Carra. He was a blue, is a blue, and always will be a blue. He was a great player for us in the context of the 90s as without him we would have been even more ordinary.

You can all sit here now, with European Cup finals coming out of our arse , but back then he was one of the most positive things to believe in. Ask the question back in the mid 90s and I guarantee most of the arl arses on here would say he was a great player.

A European Cup winners medal is not a shite achievement, but just remember Traore has one too

[JamesG L4]

A European Cup winners medal is not a shite achievement, but just remember Traore has one too

He was awarded Man Of the Match in the European Cup Final for Real Madrid, and scored a volley from outside the box.

In club football it doesn't get much better than that outside LFC. 

[Jebediah]

He threatened to break my legs once...

[Lacoste-Trackie]

Great player always remember him for the goal against Celtic

as a person though hate the c*nt with a passion!

[macmanamanaman]

He was what I hope Benayoun will become for the team

[JamesG L4]

Loved the bit in Fowler's book where he says he has a name like how a deaf person talks!

[Piechniks Picnic]

Now he's put the weight on, he looks too much like Irene out of Coronation Street.

[redmark]

Suppose everyone will have fluid ideas on what 'great' means, but if Alonso is even approaching world class then MacManaman must be considered in the bracket of great. If he was surrounded by the players he would have been achieved much more. His fellow midfielders (Redknapp, Ince, Barnes (in the middle) and turd like Leonardson, MacAteer did not help. For me he carried us for three of four seasons. As I say, in our team now he would elevate us to the same level as Man U or Chelsea.

He was never a Liverpool fan, never said he was, never said he'd turned like Owen, Fowler and Carra. He was a blue, is a blue, and always will be a blue. He was a great player for us in the context of the 90s as without him we would have been even more ordinary.

You can all sit here now, with European Cup finals coming out of our arse , but back then he was one of the most positive things to believe in. Ask the question back in the mid 90s and I guarantee most of the arl arses on here would say he was a great player.

He was very good, but I would stop just short of great. You're right though, I might have said great at the time. I don't mind him being a blue (and sticking to it), I don't mind him being critical (he's generally a little more intelligent in his comments than most pundits, which isn't saying much). I wouldn't say Alonso is world class (he has the potential, but at his age he needs to start fulfilling it more regularly).

I'm not sure McManaman would do that much for our current team, though. For one thing, remember we had to go 352 (strictly, 3412) to get the best out of him; he was never a winger, needed the free role. Couldn't play the '7' in a 4411 though, because he wasn't enough of a goal threat. In the end, although he was influential and intelligent, he didn't quite do enough to be considered 'a great' IMO, though great on his day. That Liverpool team wasn't at all bad; a truly great McManaman (more goals, slightly better final ball on occasions) would have taken it to a title. My personal definition of great includes some element of achievement and longevity, not just abillity.

[Rhino]

He was awarded Man Of the Match in the European Cup Final for Real Madrid, and scored a volley from outside the box.

In club football it doesn't get much better than that outside LFC. 

I can't say I remember him being man of the match, but will bow to your greater knowledge.

What I do remember about his time in Madrid is him been out of his depth and spending most of his time there getting splinters in his arse.  He spent 4 seasons there (almost another Bosman ) and I doubt he played 70 games for them.

Don't get me wrong, not many even get the chance the play for Madrid, but average player with a few  outstanding moments

[Le Terrible]

Almost a legend for Liverpool Football Club.  He can't really be classed as a legend as we won almost nowt with him.  But still, he was our most dynamic and effective player when he was at the club.

A easy scapegoat for our failure post 89-90.  Such sentiments are unfortunate, as those failings were largely institutional and cannot alone be blamed on our most gifted player of that era.  He almost single handedly kept the team in contention and produced some memorable and exciting football.  The current crop has not yet come as close to a title as McManaman did.  And until they do, those who are hyper critical of McManaman need to give pause.

The Blue and Bosman attacks are bitter.  I am surprised this sentiment pervades here so strongly as it does.  Big time Charlie?  What a horrible insult to one of our great players.  So what.  He supports Everton.  So does Jamie Carragher.  The club made a balls up when it came to managing their players in the early Bosman era.  The club may have been able preempt this move if it had the foresight and executive skills.   But if the end the lad decided on life in Madrid.  Good for him.  It's a great town.

In the end he was a Legend for Real Madrid.  His contributions to their European Cup victories cannot be dismissed.  He could have been a Legend for Liverpool.  One must wonder what we could have achieved had he stayed.

Give me him over any or most of the usual twats we are generally bombarded with in the football media. I wish well in his future work, and I will never forget the enjoyment I got from watcing him play football.

Here's a belter he scored against Arsenal...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsvVRJQtkFM
And here's one the Bhoys will never forget even if some here do....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzZ0k8fZZTg



 

[JamesG L4]

He was very good, but I would stop just short of great. You're right though, I might have said great at the time. I don't mind him being a blue (and sticking to it), I don't mind him being critical (he's generally a little more intelligent in his comments than most pundits, which isn't saying much). I wouldn't say Alonso is world class (he has the potential, but at his age he needs to start fulfilling it more regularly).

I'm not sure McManaman would do that much for our current team, though. For one thing, remember we had to go 352 (strictly, 3412) to get the best out of him; he was never a winger, needed the free role. Couldn't play the '7' in a 4411 though, because he wasn't enough of a goal threat. In the end, although he was influential and intelligent, he didn't quite do enough to be considered 'a greate'.

Agree on most of that. Alonso is nowhere near world class, I was using it to highlight how fans' views and decisions are fluid.

As for the free role, he did flourish in it to a good extent - but he didn't need the 'free' role. At Real he predominantly played on the wing and was voted fans player of the season twice. He florished there with us becasue of our total lack of quality attacking mids. To be fair Ronaldo is often granted the free role at Man U, popping up all over the place - so it can be employed to good affect in the league as it stands.

That Liverpool team wasn't at all bad; a truly great McManaman (more goals, slightly better final ball on occasions) would have taken it to a title. My personal definition of great includes some element of achievement and longevity, not just abillity.

Well, if he played today he would have the achievement due to the squad he would be involved in, which would have gave him longevity. It's catch 22. His pace, engine and ability to beat players is exactly what we lacked last season in midfield - imagine him on the left against Milan rather than Bolo.

Fowler wouldn't have been the legend he is without the support and assists of MacManaman - if you asked Fowler the answer would be instant.

[Rhino]

Agree on most of that. Alonso is nowhere near world class, I was using it to highlight how fans' views and decisions are fluid.

As for the free role, he did flourish in it to a good extent - but he didn't need the 'free' role. At Real he predominantly played on the wing and was voted fans player of the season twice. He florished there with us becasue of our total lack of quality attacking mids. To be fair Ronaldo is often granted the free role at Man U, popping up all over the place - so it can be employed to good affect in the league as it stands.
 

Had to look up his Madrid stats as Kaiser is prob asleep, in 4 seasons, played 59 league games, with 35 of those as sub, scoring 8 goals. 

Player of the season twice

[redmark]

Agree on most of that. Alonso is nowhere near world class, I was using it to highlight how fans' views and decisions are fluid.

As for the free role, he did flourish in it to a good extent - but he didn't need the 'free' role. At Real he predominantly played on the wing and was voted fans player of the season twice. He florished there with us becasue of our total lack of quality attacking mids. To be fair Ronaldo is often granted the free role at Man U, popping up all over the place - so it can be employed to good affect in the league as it stands.
 

Well, if he played today he would have the achievement due to the squad he would be involved in, which would have gave him longevity. It's catch 22. His pace, engine and ability to beat players is exactly what we lacked last season in midfield - imagine him on the left against Milan rather than Bolo.

Fowler wouldn't have been the legend he is without the support and assists of MacManaman - if you asked Fowler the answer would be instant.

Fuck, I think I'd rather have had Leonhardsen than Bolo (ok, pushing it a little...).

I don't really disagree with most of the above. He was a vital player for us, very talented and very intelligent. If he'd had a better shot, maybe better players in the team and stayed longer, he'd fit my fuzzy definition of 'great'. If, if, if. On the other hand considering his theoretical benefit to us now, he possibly wouldn't have relished some aspects of the 21st century game - I can't see his skinny frame skipping past someone like Essien quite so comfortably.

If and when I were to redo those 'greatest Liverpool XI's' that I used to as a kid, I'm sure he'd be in a squad of 25, but I don't think he'd make the bench.

[reds9]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFc9frXRAHg&mode=related&search=

Maybe not a legend but Macca is still one hell of a player for us.
He's the sort of winger our team lack now, ghost past opponents, score goals and assists.

[JamesG L4]

Fuck, I think I'd rather have had Leonhardsen than Bolo (ok, pushing it a little...).

I don't really disagree with most of the above. He was a vital player for us, very talented and very intelligent. If he'd had a better shot, maybe better players in the team and stayed longer, he'd fit my fuzzy definition of 'great'. If, if, if. On the other hand considering his theoretical benefit to us now, he possibly wouldn't have relished some aspects of the 21st century game - I can't see his skinny frame skipping past someone like Essien quite so comfortably.

If and when I were to redo those 'greatest Liverpool XI's' that I used to as a kid, I'm sure he'd be in a squad of 25, but I don't think he'd make the bench.

Think we're agreeing here - the absurd notion of 'great' is the red herring - let's change it to important and we're laughing.

[woof]

One of the most naturally gifted players who can't score a goal. Was a great player while he's with us but don't bother to watch him in the media these days

[Samran.]

And after some recent outbursts in the media i hate the man even more.

What has he said?

I love Macca. He came a few times on Sky last season and i liked him as a pundit. His views were better than the generic bullshit most of the pundits spew. He's a funny guy too.

As for him as a player. Class.

If only he was born 10 years later and ended up making his rise now. With him down the wing, our attack would now be at that extra level which it needs to reach.

[campioni]

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/smalltalk/story/0,,1155710,00.html

Interesting answer to the last question.

[Ken-Obi]

My favourite player before he left for Madrid. Ambivalent about him afterwards.

[Samran.]

Loved the bit in Fowler's book where he says he has a name like how a deaf person talks!

haha yeh that was hilarious

also the part when he got Fowler to hop onto the Madrid Champions bus. I can just imagine that picture, haha.

Fowler needs to join him on that show he will have on Setanta. Macca's football or something. It would probably be the best show on tv anywhere in the world. full stop.

[JamesG L4]

haha yeh that was hilarious

also the part when he got Fowler to hop onto the Madrid Champions bus. I can just imagine that picture, haha.

Fowler needs to join him on that show he will have on Setanta. Macca's football or something. It would probably be the best show on tv anywhere in the world. full stop.

Loved it when they would meet over the fence in Soccer AM*

*When it was good.

[The Infamous_LFC]

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/smalltalk/story/0,,1155710,00.html

Interesting answer to the last question.

I hate him even more now

[wickolfc]

great player great players are dalglish ,maradona ,pele, bobby charlton and other players of that stature.

Forgot your the expert.

[Trell]

If he had been willing to train like some of the players we have now and put a lot more effot into it he could have been great. 

Immense natural talent but without the effort he was merely excellent.

Great or Legend?  I think not.

Strangely enough i sort of respect him for sticking to his guns regarding being a Blueshite.  I won't dis a person for being loyal and in all fairness while he played for us he tried hard against his favourite team.

Still seems like a tosser though.

[Rusty Oysterburger]

I'll always have a soft spot for Macca...I was about 8 when he first came onto the scene and he was fuckin amazing to me

[KopThat]

He was a good player - a legend does not leave the club on a bosman, a full of himself twat does.

[Big Tall Man]

Legend

In the context of what it takes to be a legend, such as Kenny, Keegan, Rush, Davy Fairclough, Smithy, Thommo... nah sorry, he aint.

He was a fairly good player, who went on to shaft the club and become a drum beating gobshite against us.

Reasonable player, legendary arsehole now.