Author Topic: John Henry & Liverpool's Evolution From Moneyball to Big-Spending Approach (Read 68425 times)

Greg86 · « **Reply #400 on:** October 11, 2020, 02:44:47 pm »

Quote from: Al 666 on October 10, 2020, 07:29:27 pm

Why would rich men who largely made their money from hedge funds create a private company that guards its privacy and then go public. Given the precarious situation their franchises and clubs are in regarding Coronavirus surely it would make more sense just to bring in a partner.

Because if they go public with 20% at an 8 bill valuation they can crystalise 1.6 billion dollars of cash between them. That's probably a very, very nice return on the cash invested, and they still retain a significant investment and ability to generate cash in future.

Dim Glas · « **Reply #401 on:** October 13, 2020, 12:56:54 am »

So Billy Beane then, the man who is Mr Moneyball, is leaving the Oakland A’s, and is teaming up with John Henry.

It appears Beane will resolve the conflict by leaving baseball behind in favor of helping Henry build an already substantial sports portfolio that includes the Red Sox and Liverpool Football Club, the champions of the English Premier League.

If Henry’s Fenway Sports Group completes its merger with RedBall Acquisition Corp. , a special-purpose acquisition company that Beane co-chairs, Beane is set to step aside from working in a baseball front office, people familiar with the matter said. He won’t take a role running the Red Sox, these people said.

Instead, Beane would turn his attention to other sports business ventures, particularly European soccer, an area he has demonstrated a passion for in recent years.

That fits with Fenway Sports Group’s future if the deal, reported by The Wall Street Journal late Friday, is realized. RedBall would purchase less than 25% of Fenway Sports Group, valuing it at $8 billion. As a public company, Fenway could look to buy up more soccer clubs in Europe in an effort to establish itself as an unprecedented global sports conglomerate.

all of it here

Samie · « **Reply #402 on:** October 13, 2020, 01:09:14 am »

Just like the blue mancs then. feeder clubs to send our players on loan.

rafathegaffa83 · « **Reply #403 on:** October 13, 2020, 02:48:17 am »

Beane already has stakes in AZ Alkmaar and Barnsley.

Mini Soda Scousephile · « **Reply #404 on:** October 13, 2020, 05:09:07 am »

Well, definitely didn't see that coming.

Max_powers · « **Reply #405 on:** October 13, 2020, 05:19:08 am »

Will be good for the club I think. As we have grown the quality of the team, its harder and harder for some of the really promising youngsters to nail down first team spots. Would allow some younger players to develop and grow into the senior game.

Something similar to the redbull model would be great for the club I think.

Carra-ton · « **Reply #406 on:** October 13, 2020, 07:28:56 am »

Just invest the corrupt American money to buy Mbappe and Sancho and then I for one welcome our new overlords.

Indomitable_Carp · « **Reply #407 on:** October 13, 2020, 01:13:15 pm »

Quote from: Max_powers on October 13, 2020, 05:19:08 am

Will be good for the club I think. As we have grown the quality of the team, its harder and harder for some of the really promising youngsters to nail down first team spots. Would allow some younger players to develop and grow into the senior game.

Something similar to the redbull model would be great for the club I think.

Good for the club. Terrible for the sport.

Asam · « **Reply #408 on:** October 13, 2020, 04:24:14 pm »

Quote from: Indomitable_Carp on October 13, 2020, 01:13:15 pm

Good for the club. Terrible for the sport.

Not really, if anything I can see this becoming the norm for the big clubs. I don’t see why us having a feeder/development club in another country or a lower league is such a problem to be honest, it’s not like the likes of Alkmaar or Toulouse is competition for us

bornandbRED · « **Reply #409 on:** October 13, 2020, 04:51:04 pm »

Without looking into the intricacies at this stage, I’m quite sceptical about listing the club... anyone with any intentions can then purchase shares. Decision making is deferred to shareholder voting.

Whilst it would be a way to raise a shitload of cash and capital initially, it transforms the emphasis from performance to profits, which is never a good thing in sport

Samie · « **Reply #410 on:** October 13, 2020, 06:01:23 pm »

I'm not sure how David Maddock knows this or his sourcing the WSJ articles but he say's the FSG merger with is Redball group is close to being complete.

CraigDS · « **Reply #411 on:** October 13, 2020, 06:25:58 pm »

Quote from: Samie on October 13, 2020, 06:01:23 pm

I'm not sure how David Maddock knows this or his sourcing the WSJ articles but he say's the FSG merger with is Redball group is close to being complete.

He appears to be quoting the WSJ.

Still very dubious how true this is personally. I can see reasons why they’d go for it, but plenty of reasons why they wouldn’t.

Samie · « **Reply #412 on:** October 13, 2020, 06:32:32 pm »

The Times also had an article up on this today too mate. Safe to say there's black smoke to this.

NHRed · « **Reply #413 on:** October 14, 2020, 01:28:55 am »

Quote from: Max_powers on October 13, 2020, 05:19:08 am

Will be good for the club I think. As we have grown the quality of the team, its harder and harder for some of the really promising youngsters to nail down first team spots. Would allow some younger players to develop and grow into the senior game.

Something similar to the redbull model would be great for the club I think.

Worth noting too, this IS the development model for baseball. The major league clubs all control several minor league teams at various levels. So the Red Sox control teams in Pawtucket, Rhode Island; Portland, Maine; and Lowell, Mass (and a couple others). The top level team (Pawtucket) is in a sense the Red Sox reserve club, with several players getting their final polish before being moved up to the main club, as well as reserve players brought up for injuries, etc. Plus an assortment of declining or not quite good enough players, of course.

Each of the minor league teams is stocked with players under contract to the major league clubs. Major League clubs have a roster of 40 players, but a game day limit of 25 until the last month of the season. Most of the other 15 players are with the top level minor league club, those reserve players and the ones getting their final polish.

The point is, FSG have quite a bit of experience with developing players through feeder clubs.

duvva 💅 · « **Reply #414 on:** October 14, 2020, 01:50:08 am »

Clearly we’d be foolish not to look into the advantages of this as others have done and are doing.

Just doesn’t feel right Clubs being connected to another club in anyway though. Would prefer they stopped the practice entirely as it’s just another way of the most powerful clubs becoming more powerful.

Kopenhagen · « **Reply #415 on:** October 14, 2020, 03:14:19 am »

Welcome Billy.

Dave McCoy · « **Reply #416 on:** October 14, 2020, 03:42:06 am »

Both Henry and Werner have said for years they wanted minority investment in the club. Bit of a roundabout way but this shouldn't be a surprise and hopefully just further secures the continued economic strength of the club. If they do go public then everyone would get access to quarterly financials to further verify that the club is being run well instead of just the annual figure we get now.

Indomitable_Carp · « **Reply #417 on:** October 14, 2020, 07:43:38 am »

Quote from: Asam on October 13, 2020, 04:24:14 pm

Not really, if anything I can see this becoming the norm for the big clubs. I don’t see why us having a feeder/development club in another country or a lower league is such a problem to be honest, it’s not like the likes of Alkmaar or Toulouse is competition for us

You´ve just outlined why it is good for us and terrible for the sport.

Yeah who gives a fuck about the likes of Toulouse or Alkmaar anyway. Why wouldn´t their fans want to become a simple feeder club for the likes of a giant club like Liverpool?

pathetic · « **Reply #418 on:** October 14, 2020, 10:08:09 am »

Quote from: Indomitable_Carp on October 14, 2020, 07:43:38 am

You´ve just outlined why it is good for us and terrible for the sport.

Yeah who gives a fuck about the likes of Toulouse or Alkmaar anyway. Why wouldn´t their fans want to become a simple feeder club for the likes of a giant club like Liverpool?

The thing is I don't think we would be aiming for a club with ambitions to improve. This would be a club in the relegation / mid table position every season so for the supporters the chance to have quality young players for them would be welcomed, IMO.

ianburns252 · « **Reply #419 on:** October 30, 2020, 01:04:09 pm »

Quote from: bornandbRED on October 13, 2020, 04:51:04 pm

Without looking into the intricacies at this stage, I’m quite sceptical about listing the club... anyone with any intentions can then purchase shares. Decision making is deferred to shareholder voting.

Whilst it would be a way to raise a shitload of cash and capital initially, it transforms the emphasis from performance to profits, which is never a good thing in sport

I would be shocked if the floating of the club conferred any significant voting rights to purchasers. Would expect the share distrib to be newly created preference shares providing first claim to dividend payments but with significantly limited, if not near inconsequential voting rights.

The Ordinary share cap held by FSG with be where the power over decision making is, the share allotment will provide funding for equity and the dividend payout to make it attractive.

A fair point on the emphasis - responsibility of the directors is to maximise profits and the like in favour of the shareholders. I would hope, however, that this is done through on pitch investment and performance driving financial performance.

Goalposts for Jumpers · « **Reply #420 on:** October 30, 2020, 02:42:11 pm »

Quote from: NHRed on October 14, 2020, 01:28:55 am

Worth noting too, this IS the development model for baseball. The major league clubs all control several minor league teams at various levels. So the Red Sox control teams in Pawtucket, Rhode Island; Portland, Maine; and Lowell, Mass (and a couple others). The top level team (Pawtucket) is in a sense the Red Sox reserve club, with several players getting their final polish before being moved up to the main club, as well as reserve players brought up for injuries, etc. Plus an assortment of declining or not quite good enough players, of course.

Each of the minor league teams is stocked with players under contract to the major league clubs. Major League clubs have a roster of 40 players, but a game day limit of 25 until the last month of the season. Most of the other 15 players are with the top level minor league club, those reserve players and the ones getting their final polish.

The point is, FSG have quite a bit of experience with developing players through feeder clubs.

I once knew a man from Pawtucket...

NewfoundRed · « **Reply #421 on:** October 30, 2020, 04:04:28 pm »

Quote from: Goalposts for Jumpers on October 30, 2020, 02:42:11 pm

I once knew a man from Pawtucket...

That story doesn't end well.

Eeyore · « **Reply #422 on:** October 30, 2020, 08:30:03 pm »

Quote from: ianburns252 on October 30, 2020, 01:04:09 pm

I would be shocked if the floating of the club conferred any significant voting rights to purchasers. Would expect the share distrib to be newly created preference shares providing first claim to dividend payments but with significantly limited, if not near inconsequential voting rights.

The Ordinary share cap held by FSG with be where the power over decision making is, the share allotment will provide funding for equity and the dividend payout to make it attractive.

A fair point on the emphasis - responsibility of the directors is to maximise profits and the like in favour of the shareholders. I would hope, however, that this is done through on pitch investment and performance driving financial performance.

Presumably they would just have Class A shares for the existing ownership and class B shares with little or no voting rights for the shares that they float. The interesting bit will be how having to comply with stock market rules impacts the business.