Topic: Ramadan and our Muslim contingent

[deFacto please, you bastards]

"people that have tougher jobs and still perform right"...like who??
And that's the whole point, in a champions league final, you don't need to "perform just right", you need to perform exceptionally well to win it.
However good our nutritionists at the club are, they might just have to adapt to someone's fate and try to find a way to "limit the damages". Nothing more. Fasting the whole day CANNOT be a good thing preparing for a Final, otherwise nutrionits around the world would just advice it to players whatever religion they are, and this is obviously not the case.

My only hope is that they won't be fasting, period.

What do you mean who? You can't think of any jobs in the world other than playing football that would be more difficult? Try working in the sun for 13 hours doing construction whilst fasting and tell me that's easier to do than playing football? 

[Kenny's Jacket]

Husain Abdullah, former NFL safety for Minnesota Vikings and Kansas City Chiefs, fasted through out his career whilst playing in the NFL. In one particular situation, during training camp whilst practicing twice a day he outperformed his peers for said position and won the starting position prior to the season starting.

Khadijah Diggs, USA triathlete, During Ramadan she performed sprint triathlons, consisting of a half-mile swim, a 12-mile bike race, and 3.1-mile run, also won FIRST place in 2016 during Sweetwater Super Sprint.

Kulsoom Abdullah, Olympic weight lifter, set a personal record for dead-lifting whilst fasting

Just some examples of what athletes can do, not all of them can do that, but its NOT IMPOSSIBLE.

There is no general rule for everyone, every organism is different obviously but it's not impossible.

Good fact finding, which cheers me up a little on the subject, however I cant help but conclude these feats were made in spite of fasting and not because of it.

[arab88]

Husain Abdullah, former NFL safety for Minnesota Vikings and Kansas City Chiefs, fasted through out his career whilst playing in the NFL. In one particular situation, during training camp whilst practicing twice a day he outperformed his peers for said position and won the starting position prior to the season starting.

Khadijah Diggs, USA triathlete, During Ramadan she performed sprint triathlons, consisting of a half-mile swim, a 12-mile bike race, and 3.1-mile run, also won FIRST place in 2016 during Sweetwater Super Sprint.

Kulsoom Abdullah, Olympic weight lifter, set a personal record for dead-lifting whilst fasting

Just some examples of what athletes can do, not all of them can do that, but its NOT IMPOSSIBLE.

There is no general rule for everyone, every organism is different obviously but it's not impossible.

Mate, this is nothing scientific, these are just anecdotes and I can provide you here with hundred of them proving the opposite.

We are just trying to use some logic here...there's not a single nutritionist advocating for a diet based on Islamic fasting which will even remotely improves someone's endurance..no way. I have been around people fasting most of my youth, and they were all exhausted by the end of the day without even having to exercise. Let's just be honest about this, we are human beings, and human beings need nutrients and proper hydrating to feel good, both mentally and physically (the two are linked). Salah and Mane will need to be at 120% of their abilities on the 26th of May, and there's no way fasting can help them achieve this, no way mate. Quite the opposite.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Good fact finding, which cheers me up a little on the subject, however I cant help but conclude these feats were made in spite of fasting and not because of it.

Mate whatever your conclusion is with all due respect irrelevant,as they did it successfully in the end.  I rather they didn't fast this week either, just so there isn't a change of routine to what they've been doing all year, my only point is that it can be done, it depends on the individual.

All in all, I think we'll be fine, this is probably the only place this is being discussed.  On RAWK we worry about everything

[Too early for flapjacks?]

I'd be surprised if Salah and Mane are fasting on the day. Even the day before. If for some reason you can't fast you can make it after Ramadhan.

[sms1986]

They might not even be fasting as they can postpone it due to being considered travellers.

[K-Lo]

How times change !

Back in the days when John Barnes was playing for us he maintained a house down south as well as a flat in Liverpool and as I was living in London at the time I would regularly give him a lift back to the family home after Saturday games at Anfield. 

He invited me in to have a bite to eat on a few occasions and each time he would dive into the freezer to dig out a couple of frozen hamburgers. No such thing as nutritionists at LFC in those days.   Also, as the team bus was leaving an away ground for the trip home, the ritual then was to stop at the nearest chippy for fish and chip suppers all round. 

I can't be sure what the secret of our success was in the 80s but it definitely wasn't down to the players' diets.

Thanks for this gem from the past.... I would have given my right arm to drive John Barnes  home after games.... what a star he was 

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Mate, this is nothing scientific, these are just anecdotes and I can provide you here with hundred of them proving the opposite.

We are just trying to use some logic here...there's not a single nutritionist advocating for a diet based on Islamic fasting which will even remotely improves someone's endurance..no way. I have been around people fasting most of my youth, and they were all exhausted by the end of the day without even having to exercise. Let's just be honest about this, we are human beings, and human beings need nutrients and proper hydrating to feel good, both mentally and physically (the two are linked). Salah and Mane will need to be at 120% of their abilities on the 26th of May, and there's no way fasting can help them achieve this, no way mate. Quite the opposite.

1. We are talking about whether it can be done or not. I said it could be done, given the proper guidance and planning, I posted some examples of athletes who have done it and performed really well while doing that. Does that mean that's the best way to prepare? No, I never said that. Does that mean that Salah and Mane could do it? No, but I don't know if they have done so in the past whilst playing football so it may not be an issue for them.

2. I didn't say fasting can help them, I said they could perform while doing so. There is a difference between those two statements.

3. I have also been around people who have fasted all day worked all day physical jobs and did it for the entire month of Ramadan. So yeah there's people who can do it, people who can't, people who can adapt people who can't. Just like they are athletes who can perform at a high level while fasting and those who choose not too.

But that doesn't mean it's impossible. That's only my point.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

They might not even be fasting as they can postpone it due to being considered travellers.

Right, for all we know they could be making up for it later  which in all probability they will.

[arab88]

What do you mean who? You can't think of any jobs in the world other than playing football that would be more difficult? Try working in the sun for 13 hours doing construction whilst fasting and tell me that's easier to do than playing football? 

You are twisting what I am trying to say

Working as construction worker is obviously harder...but as a construction worker, at least in the 21st century, you don't need to be at 120% while fasting!!!  When playing a final of champions league  though, you need to outperform your opponent and outplay them... And this can be done only if you hgve yourself all the chances to do so...fasting therefore cannot be considered a viable option 

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Here's an article from a former player about fasting, from 2 years ago [The Euro's took place during Ramadan] and it covers everything we talked about on here, positives and negatives, for anyone who is curious/worried/bedwetting about this issue

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/e25557ac-e76b-435f-9bfa-b069230fc68b

[deFacto please, you bastards]

You are twisting what I am trying to say

Working as construction worker is obviously harder...but as a construction worker, at least in the 21st century, you don't need to be at 120% while fasting!!!  When playing a final of champions league  though, you need to outperform your opponent and outplay them... And this can be done only if you hgve yourself all the chances to do so...fasting therefore cannot be considered a viable option 

Read my post and examples above.

[TepidT2O]

Jesus titty fucking Christ...

How did this thread go so wrong?

[Kenny's Jacket]

Mate whatever your conclusion is with all due respect irrelevant,as they did it successfully in the end.  I rather they didn't fast this week either, just so there isn't a change of routine to what they've been doing all year, my only point is that it can be done, it depends on the individual.

All in all, I think we'll be fine, this is probably the only place this is being discussed.  On RAWK we worry about everything

But Mate my point is that fasting will prevent peak fitness, not that they wont cope.  My ex was a devout Mulsim who fasted. However she was a solicitor not a footballer.  In Muslim countries they also change the hours of work to assist with fatigue. Thats fatigue from sitting down at a desk, not playing elite level sport.

We want our players at their best, not coping.

[BarryCrocker]

Jesus titty fucking Christ...

How did this thread go so wrong?

We'd be in a much better place of we only recruited atheists. 

[Samie]

Close this bullshit thread, you'd think we only have had Muslim players in the history of sport the way some of you are going.

[JP!]

The commitment to bedwetting amongst our fans is unbelievable.

[arab88]

Read my post and examples above.

I have read everything you have posted so far, let's agree to disagree on this. I will end this discussion by posting one of the very few academic researches discussing the matter "Impact of Ramadan on physical performance in professional soccer players",  this article is published by "the British journal of sports medicine" so we are not talking anecdotes here.

I just quote a paragraph from this empirical research:

"Performance declined significantly (p<0.05) for speed, agility, dribbling speed and endurance, and most stayed low after the conclusion of Ramadan. Nearly 70% of the players thought that their training and performance were adversely affected during the fast."

Link to the article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2465333/

[deFacto please, you bastards]

But Mate my point is that fasting will prevent peak fitness, not that they wont cope.  My ex was a devout Mulsim who fasted. However she was a solicitor not a footballer.  In Muslim countries they also change the hours of work to assist with fatigue. Thats fatigue from sitting down at a desk, not playing elite level sport.

We want our players at their best, not coping.

I agree with you mate entirely, my only point is that it's not a foreign subject to Muslim athletes all across the world, some are able to do it and perform well, some choose not to because they're not comfortable. So it depends, but it's not impossible. Thats only my point

https://www.thenational.ae/sport/ramadan-or-not-hakeem-olajuwon-was-a-dominant-force-in-nba-1.292407

[Kenny's Jacket]

We'd be in a much better place of we only recruited atheists. 

Not at all. One of the worlds best players this year is a Muslim and hes played a massive part in us getting to Kiev.  Another Muslim is the competitions 4th highest scorer.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

I have read everything you have posted so far, let's agree to disagree on this. I will end this discussion by posting one of the very few academic researches discussing the matter "Impact of Ramadan on physical performance in professional soccer players",  this article is published by "the British journal of sports medicine" so we are not talking anecdotes here.

I just quote a paragraph from this empirical research:

"Performance declined significantly (p<0.05) for speed, agility, dribbling speed and endurance, and most stayed low after the conclusion of Ramadan. Nearly 70% of the players thought that their training and performance were adversely affected during the fast."

Link to the article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2465333/

70 percent does not equal 100 percent, 70 percent does not equal to impossible am I wrong?  My whole point is that everyone is different some can do it some can't, some can do it and perform at a high level [Hakeem Olajuwon says hello] some can't. and that's ok, that's fine with me, all I am saying it's not impossible to do and it probably isn't the first time these players have done it.

 

[Kenny's Jacket]

I agree with you mate entirely, my only point is that it's not a foreign subject to Muslim athletes all across the world, some are able to do it and perform well, some choose not to because they're not comfortable. So it depends, but it's not impossible. Thats only my point

https://www.thenational.ae/sport/ramadan-or-not-hakeem-olajuwon-was-a-dominant-force-in-nba-1.292407

 

[arab88]

70 percent does not equal 100 percent, 70 percent does not equal to impossible am I wrong?  My whole point is that everyone is different some can do it some can't, some can do it and perform at a high level [Hakeem Olajuwon says hello] some can't. and that's ok, that's fine with me, all I am saying it's not impossible to do and it probably isn't the first time these players have done it.

 

On one hand, I presented you an empirical research, based on maths and statics, using p values to say whether Ramadan affects or not football players. And it says clearly in the article that :"Performance declined significantly (p<0.05) for speed, agility, dribbling speed and endurance, and most stayed low after the conclusion of Ramadan". This is it.

On the other hand, you presented me a bunch of anecdotes from personal experiences and statements that can be right or wrong. People might say they have actually performed well during ramdam for multitude of reasons, I cannot rely on this and dismiss empirical and logical evidence, no way.

And as I said, let's agree to disagree on this, we have a complete different approach when trying to understand what's right and what's wrong. Amen 

[arab88]

We'd be in a much better place of we only recruited atheists. 

Not at all!  I personally don't care what someone's fate is.
I just want my players to be in the best possible shape when facing Real Madrid in the final, that's all what matters to me.

[Ossie T]

I won't be fasting whilst I'm in Kiev. ☺️

[Kenny's Jacket]

I won't be fasting whilst I'm in Kiev. ☺️

 

Glad to hear it.

[jambutty]

Sundown at 853 in Kiev that night.

Half a gallon of legal energy drinks and our lads'll be flyin, no?

[mercurial]

Religion is personal and irrespective of the team or competition a person will fast if they want to. I would worry more for Mane than Salah. He puts in a good deal of energy.

[sms1986]

Religion is personal and irrespective of the team or competition a person will fast if they want to. I would worry more for Mane than Salah. He puts in a good deal of energy.

Both of them will be fine, no need to worry about either.

[Pradan]

http://sport360.com/article/football/mohamed-salah/282669/liverpools-mohamed-salah-may-fast-for-eighteen-hours-leading-up-to-the-champions-league-final
According to Egyptian fan site – El-Ahly.com – Salah will fast before the kick off of the final against Real Madrid in Kyiv next Saturday night – and with the increased day light hours in the European summer, this could mean up to 18 hours. (The average daylight hours during Ramadan in the UAE are 13 to 14 hours.)

[CraigDS]

http://sport360.com/article/football/mohamed-salah/282669/liverpools-mohamed-salah-may-fast-for-eighteen-hours-leading-up-to-the-champions-league-final
According to Egyptian fan site – El-Ahly.com – Salah will fast before the kick off of the final against Real Madrid in Kyiv next Saturday night – and with the increased day light hours in the European summer, this could mean up to 18 hours. (The average daylight hours during Ramadan in the UAE are 13 to 14 hours.)

Sunrise is currently 5am and sunset is just before 9pm. So even if that is true, which I doubt they'd know, its 15 hours and not 18.

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/ukraine/kyiv

[Claire.]

Arguing over stuff we don't even know is happening.

They're professional footballers, someone is keeping an eye on them and let's not forget, it's not the first time they've fasted.