Topic: Rhian Brewster

[Dench57]

How about Sterling, who got 130 games for us before he was 20? Or Suso who got 20 odd games before he was 20? Or Ibe who got close to 60 before he was 20?

All recent enough for you?

They all had a pretty clear path into the first 11 though, less competition. We have 3 world class forwards at the moment and are likely to bring in 1 or 2 more that would be ahead of Brewster in the pecking order. I think he's probably decided he'd rather be a starter for a lesser team than be a bit part player here.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

They all had a pretty clear path into the first 11 though, less competition. We have 3 world class forwards at the moment and are likely to bring in 1 or 2 more that would be ahead of Brewster in the pecking order. I think he's probably decided he'd rather be a starter for a lesser team than be a bit part player here.

   Horseshit

Brewster can do what he wants but I think that his mind was made up last year & he had no intention of signing a pro-contract.

Not arsed enough to let it sour my mood one way of the other.

[Eeyore]

How about Sterling, who got 130 games for us before he was 20? Or Suso who got 20 odd games before he was 20? Or Ibe who got close to 60 before he was 20?

All recent enough for you?

I agree to an extent but players like Brewster and Woodburn are a victim of our success. We have one of the most potent attacks in World Football and it is incredibly difficult to see players coming through and dislodging our front three. We are also hopefully getting towards the end of a building progress so we haven't really got time to blood youngsters.

I think Brewster is a huge talent and I hope that we sign him up on a new contract and get him some loans that allow him to get plenty of game time. The negative for him is that teams are less likely to develop a player they have on loan compared to a player that they own. Maybe a compromise in which he signs a deal for us and is then sold at some point but with us having an option to resign him for a fixed fee at a later date.

[markmywords]

How about Sterling, who got 130 games for us before he was 20? Or Suso who got 20 odd games before he was 20? Or Ibe who got close to 60 before he was 20?

All recent enough for you?

It's not about me, more about other youngsters.

Good examples though, but now that we are cL club, I wonder how many of those would get a look in at 17/18 yrs of age?

Hopefully the most talented youngsters will have the confidence to go with us.  You don't want them imagining being sat on the bench all yr, with 4 or 5 players out unavailable in their position, like has been the case for ben

[Dench57]

  Horseshit

Brewster can do what he wants but I think that his mind was made up last year & he had no intention of signing a pro-contract.

Not arsed enough to let it sour my mood one way of the other.

So you think the teams Sterling, Ibe and Suso broke into had better attacking options than ours will in 2018/19? 

[El Lobo]

That was almost 10 yrs before brewster was born.  What happened to woodburn will a more relevant example, than the previous century

What happened to Woodburn...?

[BabuYagu]

I agree to an extent but players like Brewster and Woodburn are a victim of our success. We have one of the most potent attacks in World Football and it is incredibly difficult to see players coming through and dislodging our front three. We are also hopefully getting towards the end of a building progress so we haven't really got time to blood youngsters.

I think Brewster is a huge talent and I hope that we sign him up on a new contract and get him some loans that allow him to get plenty of game time. The negative for him is that teams are less likely to develop a player they have on loan compared to a player that they own. Maybe a compromise in which he signs a deal for us and is then sold at some point but with us having an option to resign him for a fixed fee at a later date.

Increasingly, I think we should have a linkup with a club who play at a very high level but don't have the finances to survive at that level. Maybe one of the lower sides in Germany, Portugal, France or Spain. I know Vitoria Guimaraes (Por) and Eibar (Spa) struggled very recently financially and may appreciate a financial heavyweight helping them in several ways. We offer them the cream of our 18-21 range every season with the understanding they develop those players for us. We can also provide them with access to any data analysis for players they want to sign or even pay them a large development fee each year. Whatever that would cost, the gain in more experienced and higher valued assets to sell or more players transitioning into the first team would more than pay it off.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

What happened to Woodburn...?

We have stopped his development at age 18,forcing him to stay at the club and learn from the best attack in world football,destroyed his career before it had a chance to take off.


Or some such shit.

[BabuYagu]

It's not about me, more about other youngsters.

Good examples though, but now that we are cL club, I wonder how many of those would get a look in at 17/18 yrs of age?

Hopefully the most talented youngsters will have the confidence to go with us.  You don't want them imagining being sat on the bench all yr, with 4 or 5 players out unavailable in their position, like has been the case for ben

From a coaching point of view, do you think Ben has to develop more to get to the level of the rest of our starting forwards? If so, how? Physically, technically, tactically? Be specific.

Is this development something that will happen through the passage of time? through training? through playing?

[lamonti]

Difference between him and TAA is also that strikers seemed to peak earlier, maybe at 22. They have to be playing regularly at 20, 21 to get there.

The German league isn't the worst option, he'll time and if he makes it, he could come back in 2-3 years. Wouldn't be surprised if we let him go, be nice if we could sell with a buy-back clause.

Well he isn't under contract with us, he's just a scholar.

His football career will definitely improve from playing first team football at 18. Hard to get that here to be fair. Leipzig seems a better option that Gladbach. Presumably Lookman will be going back to Everton.

[Djozer]

How about Sterling, who got 130 games for us before he was 20? Or Suso who got 20 odd games before he was 20? Or Ibe who got close to 60 before he was 20?

All recent enough for you?

All good examples, but I think there's a bit of extra context that can be applied too - all three were either at a higher level than Brewster currently is, or got their games when we were thinner, squadwise, in areas where they played.

I reckon Brewster looks at Woodburn, who can play in a few of the same positions that he does, sees the paucity of game time he got this season, looks at the attacking addition(s) we are likely to be bringing in and thinks "just how often am I likely to be getting on the pitch, realistically?" Then he looks at approximate contemporaries like Sancho and Lookman in the Bundesliga and...

I can completely understand why he might want to move on. I'm not saying it's necessarily the right decision for him - personally I think there would be a lot to said for staying with us under Klopp's exceptional training and tutelage - but i can see why he could want to leave. I'd love him to sign a new contract and maybe get a loan if he's that desperate for first team action (and in truth who knows what's going on behind the scenes - he may yet decide to do just that) but the media chatter is making it sound increasingly unlikely. Not the end of the world at all if he leaves, but it would be a bit of a shame. Be nice if we can get some sort of buyback clause inserted if h does end up upping sticks.

[BabuYagu]

Difference between him and TAA is also that strikers seemed to peak earlier, maybe at 22. They have to be playing regularly at 20, 21 to get there.

The German league isn't the worst option, he'll time and if he makes it, he could come back in 2-3 years. Wouldn't be surprised if we let him go, be nice if we could sell with a buy-back clause.

Not quite. Most goalscorers tend to find their productivity around 22-23, peaking about 25-26 (when human males physically peak). There are loads of studies out there to support this. Here are some graphics demonstrating the findings.

[Djozer]

Just out of interest, have their been any studies done on whether training or first team action, and at what ages, are best for player development? This may be impossible to answer, as i guess every player is different, and there are probably so many variables to take into account...

[redbyrdz]

Thats the curve for all players though, imo strikers peak earlier. I don't know if there are any figures out there, but I've also the feeling that players who enter top level very early (like Rooney, and probably Sterling) also peak earlier and are done earlier too.


Also not sure if its easily measurable - a player might be physically past his best, but still score more goals, for example by better positioning, or increased status in the team (taking penalties and freekicks,simply be given the ball more).

[BabuYagu]

Just out of interest, have their been any studies done on whether training or first team action, and at what ages, are best for player development? This may be impossible to answer, as i guess every player is different, and there are probably so many variables to take into account...

Changes from player to player.

Generally speaking - specific improvements are best made with training. Because improvements tend to be made with repetitions and therefore you can create that environment to happen in training rather than waiting for it to maybe occur in a game. This is the reason Moreno improved his defending most at the club when he didn't play for a year. He learned some new ways to manage his positioning and awareness on the pitch, which also made him calmer in defensive situations as every opposition player movement didn't come as a complete surprise to him throwing him into a blind panic.

The most important thing to note with young players though is that they haven't physically stopped developing. I think Gerrard it was that said he stopped growing at 22 and from the time he moved up to training at Melwood to that age he had gone from being Owen's height to being 6'2. He was growing a few inches every season and that coupled with playing put a massive physical strain on him, hence his poor injury record at a young age. Martin Kelly had similar problems.

[BabuYagu]

Thats the curve for all players though, imo strikers peak earlier. I don't know if there are any figures out there, but I've also the feeling that players who enter top level very early (like Rooney, and probably Sterling) also peak earlier and are done earlier too.


Also not sure if its easily measurable - a player might be physically past his best, but still score more goals, for example by better positioning, or increased status in the team (taking penalties and freekicks,simply be given the ball more).

First curve is all players. Second one is strikers only. They are the same

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

Bullshit Babu. I'm as good as I've ever been, nanananananan, didn't see that.

[markmywords]

What happened to Woodburn...?

1 appearance in sept, next app 9 months later.

understandable reasons, disappointing all the same

babuyagu
From a coaching point of view, do you think Ben has to develop more to get to the level of the rest of our starting forwards? If so, how? Physically, technically, tactically? Be specific.

Is this development something that will happen through the passage of time? through training? through playing?

Judging by his continued non selection he has a lot of improving to do.  I'm just pointing out that this non selection has a potential adverse knock on effect on the next gen of youngster beneath, such as brewster. 

[deFacto please, you bastards]

1 appearance in sept, next app 9 months later.

understandable reasons, disappointing all the same


Judging by his continued non selection he has a lot of improving to do.  I'm just pointing out that this non selection has a potential adverse knock on effect on the next gen of youngster beneath, such as brewster.

That's what happens when you're injured for a couple of months and then pick up an illness that has you out for another couple of months where you lose weight and fitness.

His non selection is based on that. Earlier in the year, we were quite stacked as most of our lads were fit and it was hard for him to make the bench.

[markmywords]

That's what happens when you're injured for a couple of months and then pick up an illness that has you out for another couple of months where you lose weight and fitness.

His non selection is based on that. Earlier in the year, we were quite stacked as most of our lads were fit and it was hard for him to make the bench.

Woodburn's non selection was really brought into light in the last 6 weeks or so, when we barely had enough midfield players to make up the 11 and he still couldn't get a kick.  Klopp has very understandable reasons for not selecting him, in the same way brewster has equally understandable reasons for maybe thinking the bundesliga beckons

[Sinyoro]

Woodburn's non selection was really brought into light in the last 6 weeks or so, when we barely had enough midfield players to make up the 11 and he still couldn't get a kick.  Klopp has very understandable reasons for not selecting him, in the same way brewster has equally understandable reasons for maybe thinking the bundesliga beckons

Woodburn is not ready, otherwise Klopp would have played him more.

Former and current professional footballers would know this better- a player who is ready will play regardless of age. A player who is not ready will not play, regardless of sentiment.

Brewster probably realises that there is a level that one has to reach to be considered for first team duty. Maybe he doesn't think he can do it in the next couple of years. This all comes from his experiences on the training pitch.

[istvan kozma]

Woodburn's non selection was really brought into light in the last 6 weeks or so, when we barely had enough midfield players to make up the 11 and he still couldn't get a kick.  Klopp has very understandable reasons for not selecting him, in the same way brewster has equally understandable reasons for maybe thinking the bundesliga beckons

What are you rambling about?
The people who took the place, when 1 of our only 3 fit midfielders got a rest over the last couple of weeks, was an academy graduate who's been a regular in the team all season and a 20 year old striker who's been a regular in the squad all season. Anybody who's watched Woodburn play at u23 level this season would realise his form doesn't warrant a place in the first team, let alone throwing him in an unfamiliar position in midfield. To lazily link Woodburn's lack of playing time this season, as to the reason why Brewster might leave is ridiculous.

[kloppismydad]

What are you rambling about?
The people who took the place, when 1 of our only 3 fit midfielders got a rest over the last couple of weeks, was an academy graduate who's been a regular in the team all season and a 20 year old striker who's been a regular in the squad all season. Anybody who's watched Woodburn play at u23 level this season would realise his form doesn't warrant a place in the first team, let alone throwing him in an unfamiliar position in midfield. To lazily link Woodburn's lack of playing time this season, as to the reason why Brewster might leave is ridiculous.

Precisely, and we have to keep in mind how tough this period is physically and mentally, so one can understand Klopp not throwing Woodburn into the deep end.

Klopp didn't rush an experienced player like Oxlade-Chamberlain to start for us, letting his assimilate and get used to our style of football. Why does anything believe he would risk Woodburn during such a tough part of the season? We've already seen the reaction Alexander-Arnold got for a few mistakes so I can only imagine the added pressure on Woodburn for playing in arguably the weakest part of our team.

I think Brewster needs to take a look at himself. Gerrard, Kloppo and the club have done everything in their power to cater to him and put his interests at the forefront of most decisions made regarding him. If he is willing to leave the club where he is highly regarded by the manager himself, then it's his choice and nothing to do with the club.

[markmywords]

What are you rambling about?
The people who took the place, when 1 of our only 3 fit midfielders got a rest over the last couple of weeks, was an academy graduate who's been a regular in the team all season and a 20 year old striker who's been a regular in the squad all season. Anybody who's watched Woodburn play at u23 level this season would realise his form doesn't warrant a place in the first team, let alone throwing him in an unfamiliar position in midfield. To lazily link Woodburn's lack of playing time this season, as to the reason why Brewster might leave is ridiculous.

Even when he was in form for wales in autumn he could barely get a kick, for us, but Klopp sees him more than I do and has good judgement in these things

HOwever, almost every young players when asked will say they are inspired by recent young players getting into the team, especially in their position.  In some cases, the reverse will be likely be true.  Hopefully not so, mind, hopefully rhian stays

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Even when he was in form for wales in autumn he could barely get a kick, for us, but Klopp sees him more than I do and has good judgement in these things

HOwever, almost every young players when asked will say they are inspired by recent young players getting into the team, especially in their position.  In some cases, the reverse will be likely be true.  Hopefully not so, mind, hopefully rhian stays

In form for Wales     How many games do you have to play before it can be considered form  ?


In form for Wales 

[markmywords]

In form for Wales     How many games do you have to play before it can be considered form  ?


In form for Wales 

wales young player of the yr wasn't he?, hopefully he'll be LFC young player of the yr next yr, with brewster 2nd

[WhereAngelsPlay]

wales young player of the yr wasn't he?, hopefully he'll be LFC young player of the yr next yr, with brewster 2nd

As Sub.

I expect that he will get a chance to impress in Pre-season and depending how he performs he may or may not be sent out on loan.

[Suareznumber7]

How about Sterling, who got 130 games for us before he was 20? Or Suso who got 20 odd games before he was 20? Or Ibe who got close to 60 before he was 20?

All recent enough for you?

I think it’s fair to say that our attacking front 3 is much stronger then when it was when those players were getting all of those appearances.

[Medellin]

The grass is greener Rhian..

[Red Beret]

Think people are getting overly wound up over this. 

This is an 18 year old lad who hasn't signed a pro deal in a team containing arguably the most potent footballing strikeforce on the face of the planet.

Would be nice if he signed a contract and showed a willingness to go out on loan to ply his trade, or stick around for the cups next season so we can rotate.  But really, if he doesn't...

[Byrneand]

Bottom line is that if we'd of had a decent run in the Carling Cup, players like Brewster (injuries allowing) would have gotten game time this year.

Big problem was that a team that contained Ward, Robertson (as a new player), Gomez, Flanagan, Grujic, Solanke and Ox (with TAA, Woodburn, Ings, and Markovic) got beat by a 2nd string Leicester.

Klopp was taking League, FA Cup and Champions League serious (the sad reality is we could do with a trophy - one with big ears would be a nice start!) this season.

I think if we'd of been pushing harder for the League (or known that we'd go so far in CL) then I'd of not been surprised to see Klopp play more youth in the FA Cup.

At the end of the day, youth was given a chance and they screwed it up collectively.

Edit: you could also argue that if we hadn't drawn Everton in the first round of the FA cup, that also could have been an opportunity.

[Samie]

You would think we're losing Kylian Mbappe here with some of the reactions. 

[Byrneand]

You would think we're losing Kylian Mbappe here with some of the reactions. 

or a 20 year old Neil Mellor

[istvan kozma]

Even when he was in form for wales in autumn he could barely get a kick, for us, but Klopp sees him more than I do and has good judgement in these things

HOwever, almost every young players when asked will say they are inspired by recent young players getting into the team, especially in their position.  In some cases, the reverse will be likely be true.  Hopefully not so, mind, hopefully rhian stays

Err.....Trent Alexander Arnold & Joe Gomez , btw Brewster doesn't play in the same position as Woodburn.

[sirKennyDaggers]

Stevie can use him at Rangers for a season or two.

[johnj147]

Stevie can use him at Rangers for a season or two.

this

[El Lobo]

We have stopped his development at age 18,forcing him to stay at the club and learn from the best attack in world football,destroyed his career before it had a chance to take off.


Or some such shit.

Right? 

I should have known after the last game of the league season, but overestimated.....some people really do just want to criticise anything we do. ‘After what happened to Woodburn’ is one of the most genius things I’ve seen written.

[BabuYagu]

Right? 

I should have known after the last game of the league season, but overestimated.....some people really do just want to criticise anything we do. ‘After what happened to Woodburn’ is one of the most genius things I’ve seen written.

Instead of applauding Klopp for using Woodburn at 17, it is turned into a negative as he didn't use him at 18. Yet that is one of the rarest things in football, to be using teens in the first team at the highest level.

We qualified for the CL on the final game of the season and are in the CL final. Which means however Klopp has managed the situation has meant that he never really had 'free' games in the league to throw a youth team player into midfield. Every single league game was important until the end of the season.

As for playing woodburn post illness, Gini has consistently been Klopp's first choice in CM when fit. After his illness he barely played for months mostly coming off the bench or getting the odd start in a group of games. Which means Gini must have found it really tough going after his illness to get his fitness back to that level needed. We know this to be true because both Gini and Klopp has said as much. So imagine how much harder it is for Woodburn to get his fitness to that level considering he is a teen and hasn't even finished filling out his frame yet.

[spider-neil]

You would think we're losing Kylian Mbappe here with some of the reactions. 

Brewster is an excellent youngster and one of the best, if not the best we have in our reserves. If he were average I suspect the coaching staff wouldn't be arsed if he left.

[TomDcs]

If he truly believed he was good enough to start at our club, we've a long history of giving fantastic young strikers a chance, notably Owen and Fowler, recently quality British strikers - who came and ousted players with large reputations...

Perhaps he's doesn't believe he can emulate what the likes of Salah and Bobby are doing.... so his insecurities and desire to carve a professional career are what is driving his thought process.

My first thought was Sterling. If he thinks he’s good enough why leave now?