Topic: A Song of Ice and Fire general thread: BOOK AND SHOW spoilers galore

[jooneyisdagod]

What about the part that his death will drive viewers away?

Caught me out there mate.  Personally I would like to believe that it would only increase intrigue in the show but I have met people that have been put off by the death of popular characters.  Of course I have nothing but contempt for the cultural sensibilities of those people but nevertheless I do know a few that don't like or watch the show because its got too many popular characters being killed off. I guess it depends on how its treated.

[Rusty Oysterburger]

No chance their deaths will turn people away from the show, the same way more people tuned in for season two after Ned lost his head. After Ned being set up as the series main good guy. It'll piss people off, or shock them, but they'll still be intrigued. And we've still got another 8 episodes to build up the viewers support and sympathy of Robb and Cat to make it even more devastating.

I think only Tyrion's death would turn a large number of viewers off.

I can see more problems with viewers being turned off with what happens after the Red Wedding and the other wedding as these events stop the war of the five kings dead in its tracks. Much less intrigue and big events to build up to. I'm hoping they concentrate more on the threat of The Others and Dany's story.

[Rusty Oysterburger]

I wonder where Jaime/Brienne will be by the end of season 4. I'm guessing perhaps somewhere in the middle to late book 4- which would mean they would be fast running out of material for the next season if GRRM doesn't get on with it.

My estimate is based on the probable fact that "3×07 – “The Bear and the Maiden Fair” will contain the scene with the bear fight at Harrenhal. I might be a bit off in timing but for memory not a whole lot more happens in ASoS after this- they simply go to King's Landing afterwards and that's that.

I can picture a lot of new scenes next season for them two. They'll be in Kings Landing for a while so there are plenty of characters there that they can invent scenes with. Brienne being mocked by Cersei, Tyrion being intrigued with her, more scenes with Jaime etc. They could send her off on her quest towards the end of the season.

[longball]

Clever how they introduced Qyburn imo. Just enough of a hint and a nod to the book viewers and the mystery surrounding that character. How was he the only one to survive? The way he says 'lucky' almost sarcastically.

Did cringe when they skipped over the attack on the Fist. But they can make up for that with the attacks on the convoy back to the wall. Can see why they skipped it too, makes no sense to spend what would have been a massive slice of the budget it done right. Happy enough with what they did show, quality over quantity.

[longball]

    Though I am guessing TV only viewers will have less sympathy for Robb seeing as how the Talisa story was told. In the books it seemed to me that Robb was the worthy successor to Ned and I was so furious when he was killed that I literally put the book down and swore not to read again (I started after a week though).

I think they've told it as it was told in the books for the most part. He's depicted as every bit the the worthy successor to Ned in the TV show too. He just happened to make one very big, very stupid mistake.

It's funny, after that chapter I had to put the book down too, felt like I'd been punched in the stomach, but for me it was all because of Catelyn being killed. I just think because of a lack of POV in the books for Robb, i never connected with him that much, I don't think you get to know him the way you do the others.

Quick poll, when did people last read ASOS? Cause i think how fresh in your mind the books are plays a big part in your enjoyment of the TV show. Least it did for me last season.

[Niru Red4ever]

I think they've told it as it was told in the books for the most part. He's depicted as every bit the the worthy successor to Ned in the TV show too. He just happened to make one very big, very stupid mistake.

Not for me, but there seems to be different opinions on this topic; so I guess the TV writers haven't done such a bad job after all.

Quick poll, when did people last read ASOS? Cause i think how fresh in your mind the books are plays a big part in your enjoyment of the TV show. Least it did for me last season.

Read it 4-5 years back; read the first 4 books in relatively short time span and kept twiddling my thumbs for the 5th one (which was a major let down considering the wait). I have actually quite moved away from the series and wouldn't be too fussed if the series doesn't end.

Regarding turning viewers away, yeah, I too think that won't happen. I just thought they will put Joff's wedding as a sweetner in the same series. Personally, I will be gutted when Joff turns blue as he is one of my favourites in the TV series.

Also, does anybody think that Blackfish will have a bigger role now that he has been introduced? All his exploits were pretty much as Robb's advisor which were glossed over. Wonder whether Blackfish has a big role in the upcoming books.

[Finn Solomon]

I think they've told it as it was told in the books for the most part. He's depicted as every bit the the worthy successor to Ned in the TV show too. He just happened to make one very big, very stupid mistake.

It's funny, after that chapter I had to put the book down too, felt like I'd been punched in the stomach, but for me it was all because of Catelyn being killed. I just think because of a lack of POV in the books for Robb, i never connected with him that much, I don't think you get to know him the way you do the others.

Quick poll, when did people last read ASOS? Cause i think how fresh in your mind the books are plays a big part in your enjoyment of the TV show. Least it did for me last season.

Haha lots of people report the exact opposite, they hate Cat but felt for Robb. I like both characters but felt more strongly for Robb because he was winning, he was taking it to Tywin himself and he messed it all up.

[jooneyisdagod]

Haha lots of people report the exact opposite, they hate Cat but felt for Robb. I like both characters but felt more strongly for Robb because he was winning, he was taking it to Tywin himself and he messed it all up.

I'm one of those.  I think my loathing for Catelyn is well known.  Utterly unbearable character along with her sister.

[Malaysian Kopite]

I'm one of those.  I think my loathing for Catelyn is well known.  Utterly unbearable character along with her sister.

Indeed. Longball's the first person I know who was disappointed when she died. A lot of people I know was gutted when she came back.

[Red Ant]

I hope they don't deviate any further than they already have with the lead up to the Red Wedding, the whole Jayne/Tulisa thing has been necessary from a tv audience pov. If their relationship is shown to be very important to him plus letting the audience grow to love her the impact will be better. I think we may even see her at the wedding.

The events that lead up to the demise of Rob are fantastic in the book when you think back on them, but in no way obvious enough so as you see it coming at all. In last weeks episode we got to see more of Bolton and Kastark and I think we should see much more of them as the weeks go on leading to Kastarks killing of the Lannister prisoners.

Have they introduced any of the Frays in Robs army? I don't remember any so far, and shouldn't they have shown them getting the hump over the broken marriage pact.

I felt their strange appearance at Harrenhal was just so as to place Roose Bolton there and to quite neatly introduce Qyburn without him having to be one of the Brave Companions. If I remember rightly he was with them when they caught Jamie so it would be strange to see Jamie allow him to worm his way in with his sister later on.

One last thing, I thought it was strange they brushed over Mance Rayders musical introduction as his musical talents become very important later on don't they?

[Malaysian Kopite]

The events that lead up to the demise of Rob are fantastic in the book when you think back on them, but in no way obvious enough so as you see it coming at all. In last weeks episode we got to see more of Bolton and Kastark and I think we should see much more of them as the weeks go on leading to Kastarks killing of the Lannister prisoners.

There were huge hints to it in both book 2 and 3.

[Red Ant]

There were huge hints to it in both book 2 and 3.

Oh right, so you knew what was gonna happen did you? Yes thinking back it was hinted at but I'm sorry I don't believe you see the red wedding coming. Especially as we were told time and time again about how valuable and important the laws of guest rights were.

[Niru Red4ever]

Indeed. Niru's the first person I know who was disappointed when she died. A lot of people I know was gutted when she came back.

Err.......what? I was speaking of Robb, and that too of the book Robb.

Though seeing as how DeadCat turned out to be I would have preferred her to have stayed alive.

[Malaysian Kopite]

Oh right, so you knew what was gonna happen did you? Yes thinking back it was hinted at but I'm sorry I don't believe you see the red wedding coming. Especially as we were told time and time again about how valuable and important the laws of guest rights were.

If you're asking me if I foresaw how the RW unfolded then no I did not nor am I suggesting so.Robb's death though was hinted at throughout. There was Theon's dream in ACoK where he saw Robb 'dining with the dead' with numerous cuts across his body.Then Stannis did his ritual thing where he cursed Balon Greyjoy, Robb and Joffrey. When Balon died then there was no doubt about Robb's death in my mind.Grey Wind being extremely uncomfortable at The Twins suggested that was where Robb was going to be killed.

[Malaysian Kopite]

Err.......what? I was speaking of Robb, and that too of the book Robb.

Though seeing as how DeadCat turned out to be I would have preferred her to have stayed alive.

Sorry mate. Confused you with longball there. Edited accordingly.

[Rusty Oysterburger]

Think Cat gets a bad rap a lot of time, she's the one of the only characters who behaves in a believably human way, she's just a mother who wants her kids back at any cost. Of course that's foolish if you look at it logically but put yourself in her place, grief can make you do stupid things. 
She believes her family and children are being abused and murdered one by one, she does the only thing she can to try and get them back. Its just unfortunate that her decisions have a massive political impact as well.

And, one of the main themes of the series being how those who act using their heart instead of their head will end up dead it was obvious it wasn't going to work out for her.

[longball]

Haha lots of people report the exact opposite, they hate Cat but felt for Robb. I like both characters but felt more strongly for Robb because he was winning, he was taking it to Tywin himself and he messed it all up.

Yeah thats what i meant, im definitely in the minority on that one. There's a lot of irrational hate for Cat, think some people can't forgive her for treating Jon like a piece of shit. For me though, her arc was one of the most tragic and one of the ones that i was most invested in. Think GRRM has said himself he was surprised how fans reacted to her.

The collapse of the Norths alliance against the Lannisters was crushing, which is what Robbs death means. But just in terms of being a character, I don't miss him.

[jooneyisdagod]

So new episode out.  Some have seen already I guess.  What are the opinions of it so far ?  Personally I thought it is starting to turn into sugar coated American hollywood garbage and judging by the reactions I've got thus far I'm guessing people will beg to differ big time !

[Malaysian Kopite]

So new episode out.  Some have seen already I guess.  What are the opinions of it so far ?  Personally I thought it is starting to turn into sugar coated American hollywood garbage and judging by the reactions I've got thus far I'm guessing people will beg to differ big time !

I'm in the beg to differ camp 

[Rusty Oysterburger]

The best stuff in that episode was all created for the show.

[Malaysian Kopite]

The best stuff in that episode was all created for the show.

Especially Margaery's scene with Joffrey IMO.

[Niru Red4ever]

Especially Margaery's scene with Joffrey IMO.

She is being excellent. And seeing how good Joff has been earlier I am hoping to see more of the duo.

Was a bit jarred at the 'you lost the war when you married her' line. Seems quite clear to me they are setting up Robb as the reason for all that to come

[Rusty Oysterburger]

Margery's characterisation is just better than in the books in every way so far. She's not the only one either. Its the main problem with the POV format of the books, so many potentially interesting characters are left unexplored.

The show of course doesn't have that problem allowing us to witness things that happen 'off page', of which there is a lot in the books, the main being Robb in my mind. A lot of the time the show producers have decided to leave things out as well but it really seems like they are getting more and more confident about creating events or reinterpreting them, and they've been successful for the most part. Its so pleasing to see an adaptation where they just 'get it' so well.

Edit: That fella helping Theon is nailed on to be Ramsay. Hope he's gradually introduced and they really build up the horrible stuff he does. The show is going to need a new detestable c*nt once Joff turns blue.

[lazzathered]

Edit: That fella helping Theon is nailed on to be Ramsay. Hope he's gradually introduced and they really build up the horrible stuff he does. The show is going to need a new detestable c*nt once Joff turns blue.

Simon from Misfits, perfect casting for Bolton's Bastard, can be brilliantly creepy when he wants to be

[kennedy81]

Edit: That fella helping Theon is nailed on to be Ramsay. Hope he's gradually introduced and they really build up the horrible stuff he does. The show is going to need a new detestable c*nt once Joff turns blue.

ah good shout, I hadn't copped that.
thought the fella asking questions was supposed to be Ramsay and was a bit underwhelmed.

also, the Orell character (Gareth from the Office)....
in the first book, he was killed by Jon when he was warging as an eagle.
hope they haven't kept him in as a replacement for Varamyr, who I was realy looking forward to seeing in the tv show.
loved the chraracter in the books.

[G a r y]

The lad helping him is Ramsay Bolton. This is known by me ;-)

[Rusty Oysterburger]

Started reading Game of Thrones again the other day. Jon's chapter were he leaves Winterfell for the Wall and says goodbye to Arya and Robb for the last time, I was nearly choking up there.

Its quite interesting reading it again knowing where things are headed. Bran's dreams in particular take on a new light, signposted a lot of things quite obviously.

[Malaysian Kopite]

Started reading Game of Thrones again the other day. Jon's chapter were he leaves Winterfell for the Wall and says goodbye to Arya and Robb for the last time, I was nearly choking up there.

Its quite interesting reading it again knowing where things are headed. Bran's dreams in particular take on a new light, signposted a lot of things quite obviously.

Yea there's some stuff that seems like massive spoilers in there but you don't catch o until later.

[Studog]

Finally watched this weeks episode. I like the way they're really stepping up the effort on Roose Bolton. I want to see some leeches though! I also like the way they've shown the flayed man.

Possible hint between the flayed man and the rack that Theon is attached to in the series?

Also, with the news that getting to Robb about the Bran/Rikkon not being found only being in this one, does that mean they weren't told before hand? I can't remember. Obviously in the book this has massive consequences.

Quite liked Anguy, thought they portrayed him quite well.

[RojoLeón]

Finally watched this weeks episode. I like the way they're really stepping up the effort on Roose Bolton. I want to see some leeches though! I also like the way they've shown the flayed man.

It kind of looks like the old Butcher's Apron

[longball]

That Cat scene was a bit poor I thought. Just seemed too deliberate an attempt to get people to feel sorry for her.

Favourite scene was the opening one, just seeing Robb and Jon together, and then Ned's voice in the wind. Goosebumps. Would be amazing if/when they start showing visions from the past.

[Rusty Oysterburger]

Would be amazing if/when they start showing visions from the past.

Once he becomes Bran-tree we'll be getting loads of flashbacks and history scenes. Bran's whole storyline once they get to the Wall is going to look so weird on screen. I wonder how they'll handle it.

I imagine that's how they'll reveal Jon Snow's parentage in the books as well.

[Lastrador]

Where do you people think they're going by keeping Bran and Rickon "deaths" a secret? Will they reveal it at some point or just keep them MIA?

[longball]

Once he becomes Bran-tree we'll be getting loads of flashbacks and history scenes.

Hopefully. Just hearing Ned's voice got me going, imagine getting to actually see a ToJ scene...only four or five years to wait then.

Was talking to a few non book readers today and they were both made up that Jaime had been recaptured by one of Robb's banner men.
I'd love to read a thread where only people who haven't read the books posted. Would be hilarious. 

[longball]

Where do you people think they're going by keeping Bran and Rickon "deaths" a secret? Will they reveal it at some point or just keep them MIA?

That one confuses me. I don't know why they didn't just "reveal" it last season and tied it into Cat's reasoning for freeing Jaime.

[Niru Red4ever]

I think the soldiers who were trying to recapture Jaime were shown as Freys? Interesting.

[Studog]

I think the soldiers who were trying to recapture Jaime were shown as Freys? Interesting.

Under a dreadfort banner though? They where Bolton's bannermen, it said so.

Quite looking forward to seeing the exterior of the dreadfort, no idea why, just sounds boss doesn't it!

[Malaysian Kopite]

I think the soldiers who were trying to recapture Jaime were shown as Freys? Interesting.

Flayed man banners so Roose Bolton's man. So it'll be the same as the book I suppose.

[Rusty Oysterburger]

Are the Bloody Mummers deffo out then?

[Malaysian Kopite]

Are the Bloody Mummers deffo out then?

Pretty sure I read that although Vargo Hoat is out they'll be replacing him with another mercenary leader so I suppose we'll see them.