Topic: James Pearce(Echo) on the transfer committee

[the_red_pill]

Look, what I find really poor is that the manager is the only one who has to face up to the press and the media, if the committee is able to over-rule him on key signings and sign players without his consent then  someone else should be visible, the system only works if we sign players that are suited to our style of play and bring attributes that our team needs, and the people in the committee have to be as accountable as the manager.

We do not need internal politics fucking us up.

Yip. The accountability is all fucked up and concentrated on one half of the recruitment.

It's just wrong- ethically and from a business standpoint. I don't know how you can effectively run a business like that. It makes no sense for improvement.

[QC]

Going into the final week of the summer window with the option of Balotelli or Eto'o was madness, especially given that we'd privately known that Suarez was probably going since he signed his new contract with explicit exit clause the previous winter.

Yes, I agree, thus why they failed.

[RK7]

This will only end one way, what a mess.

[RedSince86]

Pearce's take is rather sympathetic to Rodgers. Castles' is less so...http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2296954-inside-line-liverpools-transfer-committee-has-been-a-spectacular-failure.

I'm not advocating for one over the other, but it should probably be noted.

When Rodgers, a scout or an agent suggested Liverpool sign a particular player, Edwards would have the player's numbers run through the Graham model. If the computer said no, the deal was off.

When Red Bull Salzburg were looking for a buyer for Sadio Mane in the summer, Liverpool were one of the clubs approached. Graham's analysis indicated the Senegal international wasn't good enough, so Mane ended up at Southampton instead (paid for with a fraction of the money Rodgers channelled to the South Coast club for Adam Lallana, Dejan Lovren and Lambert).

For another Premier League manager whose club also utilised the Graham model, part of that comes as no surprise.

"That guy was a serious nerd," he says. "And the program was ridiculous. The parameters were set from his own view of what a defender, midfielder or attacker should do. They were ludicrous and inaccurate."


Jesus wept.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Too many cooks...


I would've thought smart people would've known that one.


Brendan's really been hung out to dry despite wanting to avoid this exact situation.
That Transfer Committe-bullshit was a really sneaky move.

This is my take too...  Red Pill...  Good God, I am going to be pissed off for a while now...  I need to go to my happy place

[TSC]

If this ends as seems likely now with Rodgers exiting I wouldn't even hazard a guess who these will go for as replacement.  Maybe the committee can then manage officially with no interference from management?  Or just appoint Ayre who seems to lead on everything else anyway.  Must be at least a month or so since his last promotion so he's overdue one.

[LFCsupporter]

Is a good question.

I mean if Sakho wasn't 'his' signing as has been said, same for Aspas then during the summer, or earlier, questions would of been asked why Rodgers wasn't playing these players and if that is because they weren't his then things would of changed then.

We wouldn't of gone and spent another £120m on players which Rodgers would then not play.

That's the only logical piece of 'truth' I cling on to. Our owners don't like wasting money. They sure as hell wouldn't spend a penny on players IF the manager was unwilling to play them. If Sakho wasn't his buy, he'd be the last player that wasn't 'his', cause nobody wants to spend 20m on somebody who won't make an iota of diference to the team. So all this 'der komitee' bullshit needs to quieten down. Rodgers plays a massive massive part in our transfers.

[the_red_pill]

This will only end one way, what a mess.

It is a fucking mess. Of that, there is no doubt.

In the end, the wrong man has to walk and he will walk alone. The fucking injustice!
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[NealFrom25Yards]

Fordy, do you know how every systems works before you enter it.   How do you know Rodgers didn't say no to the DoF issue, but that this TC was designed as another mechanism to serve as an informal (DoF)?   

He was very happy with the transfer committee until we had a downturn in form - even saying that the whole thing was overblown and the process was absolutely no different to what every other club does.

You keep criticising people for posting conjecture, yet you're wilfully ignoring direct quotes from the manager.

[L666KOP]

This will only end one way, what a mess.

yep.

It's got a feeling of when, rather than if about it now.

We shoot ourselves in the feet so many times it's a wonder we're still able to stand......

[Schmidt]

Konoplyanka not doing that much - Pretty much doing what he was doing before we tried to sign him, not like he moved to a big club and failed.
Salah Chelsea looking to offload at a loss - Like others before him, he hasn't been given a chance. He made a mistake going there but that doesn't make him a dud.
Dempsey fuck me we got away with not signing him - Fair enough, we were only planning to spend a couple mill there though.
Ince no thanks not exactly looking like a good player now is he - Again, he was going to be a cheap signing, more of a gamble on a squad player.
Micky Ryan,  Dortmund not happy might be sold next window - He was good for them last season, this season they're doing terribly by all accounts so not easy to judge him.
Sigurdsson should have chosen us obviously didnt like Spurs - Would have been good I think but hard to know for sure given his time at Spurs.
Sanchez begged Barca to take the lower Arsenal offer do you think he wanted to come here? - Potentially wouldn't have mattered if we moved quicker or offered higher wages.
Erikson Perhaps i will give you that one
Bony people were full of abuse at the thought of signing him guess its different now? - A lot of people (myself included) wanted a player similar to Sturridge to provide cover, while Bony is more of a target man. Instead we went for two target men who aren't as good as Bony, the worst of both worlds.
Vorm paper talk never happening in reality, if he wanted him he would have been signed ahead of Mignolet - Probably.

so all gettable but frankly who the fuck wants some of em suits a weird agenda though. by the way you forgot the nomad Wiil i am .

you need more research and a better list

Disagree with plenty of those assessments. To be honest it's not totally clear whether Brendan would've done a better job at picking players, but at least we would've been trying to build towards a certain playing style instead of the mishmash we seem to have now. Right now there's a risk that we'll lose a really good manager because others at the club have caused issues. At least with Rodgers in charge of transfers we'd have a better idea of whether he's the right man for the job.

[Asam]

If the club wants the manager to take all the flak when transfers don't work out then he needs more of a say, if not we will never retain anyone decent

[Snail]

yep.

It's got a feeling of when, rather than if about it now.

We shoot ourselves in the feet so many times it's a wonder we're still able to stand......

I have issues with the way this club is run, I seriously do.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Rodgers regularly lies to the media

Name one Manager who does not?  Public relations with media is the manufacture of consent (or lying).... 

See Edward Bernays, 1928 a book called propaganda for the early mechanics of shaping mass opinions.

[B0151?]

That's the only logical piece of 'truth' I cling on to. Our owners don't like wasting money. They sure as hell wouldn't spend a penny on players IF the manager was unwilling to play them. If Sakho wasn't his buy, he'd be the last player that wasn't 'his', cause nobody wants to spend 20m on somebody who won't make an iota of diference to the team. So all this 'der komitee' bullshit needs to quieten down. Rodgers plays a massive massive part in our transfers.

It's irrelevant what the owners want now, it's what they wanted to happen. They've set a system up that they thought was the right system to avoid money being wasted and that system is failing right now. They put their trust with their money and it's failed. That's clear as day.

[HighSix]

You mean Agger?  Sahin?  Suarez?  Reina?  Be specific.

Obviously Agger & Reina as Sahin was a loan & doubt we anyone wanted to move our essential player on. 

[Redman0151]

Name one Manager who does not?  Public relations with media is the manufacture of consent (or lying).... 

See Edward Bernays, 1928 a book called propaganda for the early mechanics of shaping mass opinions.

I wasn't claiming Rodgers is the only one who does. I was making the point that Rodgers saying something to the media in the past doesn't necessarily mean we should take it as truth

[RK7]

It's a fucking mess. Of that, there is no doubt.

In the end, the wrong man has to walk and he will walk alone. The fucking injustice!
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

It's hard to know where the truth lies in all honesty, I would guess they all take a share of the responsibility.  Rodgers is in control though and only he can put things right on the pitch.

[steveeastend]

It's irrelevant what the owners want now, it's what they wanted to happen. They've set a system up that they thought was the right system to avoid money being wasted and that system is failing right now. They put their trust with their money and it's failed. That's clear as day.

It hasn't failed. The manager has failed to manage the squad. THe worst signings were the ones the manager wanted, besides that, the squad is more than alright.

[redrockydennis]

Déjà vu

[4pool]

Or how about we do it the old fashioned way.

At least then the manager gets to actually shape his own destiny, and can have no qualms if it goes wrong.

Committee's are a load of bollocks mate. Because let's not piss about here, it's Brendan that will get fucked off, and he's definitely feeling the heat if he is indeed 'leaking' stories.
He's mitigating the performance's thus far.

What is the old fashioned way?

You mean where the manager had his contacts, scouts, and agents he knew then went looking for players?

So his committee would be the views of his contacts, agents, and scouts.

Or did you think Shankly, Paisley, Fagan, Dalglish all went running out watching other matches around Europe looking for "their" player Monday through Friday when we weren't playing? Or were they taking training at Melwood?

And if you really want to dig deep, every manager has shite signings. People only focus on the good ones.

[B0151?]

so all gettable but frankly who the fuck wants some of em suits a weird agenda though. by the way you forgot the nomad Wiil i am .

you need more research and a better list

Nice one in missing the points I made in the later posts mate.

"It just seems we're missing out on a good amount of players that Rodgers wants, and we end up with players he doesn't seem to particularly trust, or think are good enough. There's a massive issue there.

...Rodgers is the one who'll get sacked if it goes wrong (which auto sets us back a good 'un) so why not go the full whack and let him get the players he wants?"

[LFCsupporter]

It's irrelevant what the owners want now, it's what they wanted to happen. They've set a system up that they thought was the right system to avoid money being wasted and that system is failing right now. They put their trust with their money and it's failed. That's clear as day.

That doesn't make sense. Buy a 20m player when the manager doesn't want him, and what then? They can't force Rodgers to play them. He's the manager. Hence they wouldn't buy players if Rodgers did not hold an interest in integrating them into the team. They're not stupid.

[TSC]

It hasn't failed. The manager has failed to manage the squad. THe worst signings were the ones the manager wanted, besides that, the squad is more than alright.

Yep of course it is, as evidenced by performances, results and position in the league.  Wonder why there are even threads at all like this one when things are all hunky dory?

[steveeastend]

See Edward Bernays, 1928 a book called propaganda for the early mechanics of shaping mass opinions.

In this one I agree...

[paddysour]

When Rodgers, a scout or an agent suggested Liverpool sign a particular player, Edwards would have the player's numbers run through the Graham model. If the computer said no, the deal was off.

When Red Bull Salzburg were looking for a buyer for Sadio Mane in the summer, Liverpool were one of the clubs approached. Graham's analysis indicated the Senegal international wasn't good enough, so Mane ended up at Southampton instead (paid for with a fraction of the money Rodgers channelled to the South Coast club for Adam Lallana, Dejan Lovren and Lambert).


Jesus wept.

That guy is Comolli's guy isn't he?

Comolli recently did an interview talking about how the likes of Henderson and Downing were signed because of the chances created numbers were similar to David Silva et al. Anyone with fucking eyes can tell you how stupid that use of stats was.

Is that guys number cruncher something similar? No wonder we're so bad in the market with guys like Comolli and Edwards having major say in our targets. FFS there's guys on twitter doing a better job with statistical analysis

[steveeastend]

Yep of course it is, as evidenced by performances, results and position in the league.  Wonder why there are even threads at all like this one when things are all hunky dory?

Did we see the squad play already?

[Schmidt]

It hasn't failed. The manager has failed to manage the squad. THe worst signings were the ones the manager wanted, besides that, the squad is more than alright.

We don't know that. It's also difficult to judge each transfer on its own if the manager plans to sign two or three players who would compliment each other, and we only sign one of them.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Brendan Rodgers, Ian Ayre, Dave Fallows (Head of recruitment), Michael Edwards (Head of analysis) and Mike Gordon (FSG)

Coach, Finance guy, Player Identification, Analysis- Statistician, & FSG Liason?   

Hmmmm.... who has the most power in making decisions here in a capitalist system?

Its not Brendan folks....  As someone who has worked in finance, academia, and has coached, in my experience the hierarchy goes like this:

1) Gordon  - owners
2) Ayre  - financial underclass supporting them
3) Edwards - statisticians and analysts (supporting management)
4) Fallows - people person (observer of talent)
5) Rodgers - face of the organization
 
Now, this may not be how things run, but this is my 25 year experience of working in at least three of fields.

[JSteve]

Aye but I don't think you close Pandora's box with a well timed meeting. Once the Press smells blood only 2 things make this disappear. One, we start winning games, get a good performance, have a thrilling comeback, have Balotelli score some worldie, even if he does fuck all else for many games either side. Just something to make the low information consumers think crisis is over.
Or Van Gaal drops his pants and rubs Rafael's face in his balls while shouting at Luke Shaw to scream little piggy scream. Then nobody gives a fuck about us for a while.

 

I swear I had my laughter under control until I started envisioning Van Gaal screaming, " RUN PlGGY RUN."

[Hazell]

That guy is Comolli's guy isn't he?

Comolli recently did an interview talking about how the likes of Henderson and Downing were signed because of the chances created numbers were similar to David Silva et al. Anyone with fucking eyes can tell you how stupid that use of stats was.

Do you have a link for that?

[SerbianScouser]

One single thing wrong with this football club is the striker department. Epic lack of goals makes all the other lines in the team look exposed. Hell, it makes the club on the whole look bad.

We wouldn`t be focusing much on how poor our defence is we could actually score a goal or two and instill some confidence into the team. The ugly truth right now is that we are stuck in the mud until we get some people upfront who can put the damn round thing into the net.

[NealFrom25Yards]

This post from Durlmints was an amusing take on what we're apparently expected to believe.

John Henry is sitting in a darkened room. "You can come in now Brendan. Do you know who we're singing this summer Mr. Rodgers?" "Erm yes I think it's Reus and Pogba." There is a stunned silence. A faint whirring of a nearby machine is all that can be heard. "No, Brendan...We're buying you....Lovren!"

Brendan's eyes widen in a panicked shock. "Lovren!? Have you lost your mind!?" John Henry bursts in to evil laughter. "And he will cost you twenty million pounds!" Brendan's body slumps in to his chair in pure horror. "John I'm sorry. Whatever I have done I am sorry. Please just look to your heart." John leans back and appears to be in thought. "Okay, well you know that mobile striker you're after? Well I've already spoken to a very suitable candidate. He will be here in the morning."

Brendan looks relieved, a cautious smile spreads across his face. "oh well that's not too bad then...erm....who is he?". John presses a button on his desk to reveal a screen behind him. A fuzzy video clip begins playing. It's Brendan! "I can categorically say we will not be singing Balotelli." John looks back at Brendan, who seems to be realising what's going on. "No...it can't be....no John......". Mr. Henry is laughing manically again. Tom Werner emerges from a darkened corner of the room laughing too. Ian Ayre abseils through a light fitting in rapturous laughter to join in. In unison they all say "Make it work, or you'll get fired and we'll tell Stan Collymore."

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=318752.msg13458642#msg13458642

[Asam]

Nice one in missing the points I made in the later posts mate.

"It just seems we're missing out on a good amount of players that Rodgers wants, and we end up with players he doesn't seem to particularly trust, or think are good enough. There's a massive issue there.

...Rodgers is the one who'll get sacked if it goes wrong (which auto sets us back a good 'un) so why not go the full whack and let him get the players he wants?"

Agreed, unfortunately what we have is the worst of both worlds- there is no Director of Football so all of the media attention goes to the manager, and the committee appears not to be working harmoniously, I'm not sure who is on the committee and how many votes are counted, but even if we made the manager's opinion count as 2 points out of a possible 5 it would re-dress the balance, then you would need a 4-1 against to over-rule him which seems more sensible than the status quo, where his vote is no more important than a chief scout, number cruncher or the Harley Davidson Man

[CraigDS]

guesses, guesses, guesses.

Let's be honest, that is all guess work which adds fuck all to this discussion.

[Card Cheat]

It's like watching soon to be divorced parents fighting over the kids.

If there is truth to the OP, I hope this doesn't end with Rodgers' walking. Unless he's a yes-man any potential replacement is going to find himself in a very similar situation, and round and round we go.

The club need to open up the TC to fan scrutiny, show us how they select the players they're after and how the voting works, and listen. A bit of transparency so we at least have some idea of what is going on.

[Gegenpresser]

No one knows what's really happened behind the scenes, but if Pearce is relaying internal bickering to the public, it's not a good sign for the manager.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

I hope so. Cause only then, the club has a chance to recover.

Millions over millions spent by the likes of Hodgson and even Kenny on mediocre players and avoiding to sign quality in order to secure a cut for certain agents and to protect the comfort zone and power of some people within.

FSG are no mugs, they realised this early and refused to give the manager full control after the Carroll, Downing, Adam distaster and when looking at Rodgers players to be wanted, Lallana, Lambert and Lovren they were right.

If they are no mugs, then why did they give the manager control in the first place?  Steve, it is getting tiring reading your FSG reach-around posts at every turn.  Knock it off.  We know where you stand, now stand there for awhile and let us process it all without all the nonsense of pro-FSG rhetoric... 

I do not buy it nor do very many others...  It is reminiscent of the banking community after the financial crisis.

[redrockydennis]

Name one Manager who does not?  Public relations with media is the manufacture of consent (or lying).... 

See Edward Bernays, 1928 a book called propaganda for the early mechanics of shaping mass opinions.

Just order this from amazon, nice one!

[Anywhichwayicant]

I said it a week ago, huge changes needed at this club. Mediocrity well and truly accepted. The fact that fans still bend over backwards to defend this clusterfuck is saddest of all.