Author Topic: Russia launches invasion of Ukraine (*) & use spoiler tags for anything graphic!  (Read 950338 times)

Offline Red Beret

  • Yellow Beret. Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King. Bed-Exiting / Grunting / Bending Down / Cum Face Champion 2023.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 51,551
Here's the latest from Reporting in Ukraine. YT won't let me embed this link, so I'll just post it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlkbBrhih9g&ab_channel=ReportingfromUkraine
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

  • Missing an asterisk - no, wait sorry, that's his rusty starfish..... RAWK Apple fanboy. Hedley Lamarr's bestest mate. Has done nothing incredible ever.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 73,660
  • Asterisks baby!
Here's the latest from Reporting in Ukraine. YT won't let me embed this link, so I'll just post it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlkbBrhih9g&ab_channel=ReportingfromUkraine

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/JlkbBrhih9g" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/JlkbBrhih9g</a>
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline PaulF

  • https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/paulfelce
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 21,856
  • Nothing feels as good as fat tastes.


Even though it would be disastrous for the planet and mankind it might wake up the dozy twats who seem blinkered to the evil that lives amongst us.

I don't think anyone survives \ wakes up from nuclear war.

Though I suppose this is why Ukraine's supporters have been reluctant to supply tanks\warplanes.  A large number of battlefield tanks might taunt the Russians into battlefield nuclear weapons. Once that escalation begins :(
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

Offline Jiminy Cricket

  • Batshit fucker and Chief Yuletide Porcine Voyeur
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,043
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Here's the latest from Reporting in Ukraine. YT won't let me embed this link, so I'll just post it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlkbBrhih9g&ab_channel=ReportingfromUkraine
Works for me. Maybe it was a temporary problem.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/JlkbBrhih9g" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/JlkbBrhih9g</a>
would rather have a wank wearing a barb wire glove
If you're chasing thrills, try a bit of auto-asphyxiation with a poppers-soaked orange in your gob.

Offline Red Beret

  • Yellow Beret. Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King. Bed-Exiting / Grunting / Bending Down / Cum Face Champion 2023.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 51,551
^^^ That's weird. The last time I embedded one of these videos, YT blocked it. Maybe they relaxed the algorithm. Good to know anyway :)
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art

Offline baltic out here

  • Would you buy a second hand vinyl off this fella?!
  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 92
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
I'll have to remember to carry an umbrella next week.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/6UdgtYR1VNU&amp;ab_channel=VictorSancha" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/6UdgtYR1VNU&amp;ab_channel=VictorSancha</a>

Offline Jiminy Cricket

  • Batshit fucker and Chief Yuletide Porcine Voyeur
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,043
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
^^^ That's weird. The last time I embedded one of these videos, YT blocked it. Maybe they relaxed the algorithm. Good to know anyway :)
It could be a geolocation thing too. So, you could embed it and be unable to view it yourself, but other members might be able to.
would rather have a wank wearing a barb wire glove
If you're chasing thrills, try a bit of auto-asphyxiation with a poppers-soaked orange in your gob.

Online reddebs

  • areddwarfis4lifenotjust4xmas
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,103
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
I don't think anyone survives \ wakes up from nuclear war.

Though I suppose this is why Ukraine's supporters have been reluctant to supply tanks\warplanes.  A large number of battlefield tanks might taunt the Russians into battlefield nuclear weapons. Once that escalation begins :(

Depends what type of weapons are unleashed I think mate. 

If it's an all-out missile strike and counterstrike from Russia, China, Europe and the USA then nobody and nothing survives but that isn't the only nuclear option.


Offline Red Beret

  • Yellow Beret. Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King. Bed-Exiting / Grunting / Bending Down / Cum Face Champion 2023.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 51,551
It could be a geolocation thing too. So, you could embed it and be unable to view it yourself, but other members might be able to.

I think the message at the time was embedding was disabled due to the subject matter/content. But if Andy can embed it, I should be able to as well, so maybe they changed their mind on it?
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art

Offline Jiminy Cricket

  • Batshit fucker and Chief Yuletide Porcine Voyeur
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,043
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
I think the message at the time was embedding was disabled due to the subject matter/content. But if Andy can embed it, I should be able to as well, so maybe they changed their mind on it?
I dunno. I was able to embed it too (you probably missed my post). Or, maybe you just made a mistake when editing the URL to work with the flash tags at RAWK.
would rather have a wank wearing a barb wire glove
If you're chasing thrills, try a bit of auto-asphyxiation with a poppers-soaked orange in your gob.

Offline Red Beret

  • Yellow Beret. Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King. Bed-Exiting / Grunting / Bending Down / Cum Face Champion 2023.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 51,551
I think it's unfair to say NATO's response has been slow/inadequate. Countries will try to avoid all out war with an aggressor nation for as long as possible, because nobody in their right mind wants to go to war. And, yes, we saw in the run up to WW2, that the world collectively hung several nations out to dry in an attempt to avoid the inevitable - or at least try to buy time to beef up their militaries.

We all know that the UK government, currently complaining that there isn't enough money to pay train drivers or nurses, will suddenly find billions of pounds for weapons' systems if we find the country thrust into a conventional WW3. Hell, those Tory nutjobs will probably jump at the chance of a war, as it will force all the strike action onto the back burner, or allow them to enable draconian anti-strike laws that put strikers on a par with collaborators and traitors.

But to get back to Ukraine, I've always said that the longer this dragged on the greater the chance other countries would get pulled into it. It's pretty much inevitable. The only question is what form will the escalation take?
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art

Offline Red Beret

  • Yellow Beret. Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King. Bed-Exiting / Grunting / Bending Down / Cum Face Champion 2023.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 51,551
I dunno. I was able to embed it too (you probably missed my post). Or, maybe you just made a mistake when editing the URL to work with the flash tags at RAWK.

No mate, I saw it. As you say, maybe it was a temporary problem. I don't think I made a mistake - embedding is pretty routine for me these days - but I could have. :)
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art

Offline Jiminy Cricket

  • Batshit fucker and Chief Yuletide Porcine Voyeur
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,043
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
I'll have to remember to carry an umbrella next week.
And a lead-lined raincoats will be de rigueur,
would rather have a wank wearing a barb wire glove
If you're chasing thrills, try a bit of auto-asphyxiation with a poppers-soaked orange in your gob.

Offline 24/7

  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 38,277
  • Super Title: Guru Jim
This has been coming for some time but might help you all understand why there's a genuine worry about the question, "Who's next?"

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64372508

Russia orders Estonian ambassador to leave country
The Estonian ambassador in Russia has been ordered to leave the country by 7 February, after the Kremlin accused the country of "Russophobia".
In a statement, the Russian foreign ministry said Estonia had "purposefully destroyed" relations with Moscow.
Margus Laidre is the first ambassador Russia has expelled since invading Ukraine last year.
The move comes after Estonia recently ordered a reduction in the size of the Russian Embassy in Tallinn.
Spoiler
(just to save space)
Moscow was told to reduce its embassy from 17 to eight by the end of January. In a statement in January, Estonia said embassy staff had stopped seeking to advance relations between the countries since the conflict broke out.

Tensions were also raised last week after representatives from 11 Nato nations gathered at an army base in Estonia to discuss a range of new packages to help Ukraine recapture territory and fend off any further Russian advances.

Mr Laidre has been appointed to the Russian Federation since 2018, and has previously held the role in the UK and Finland.

He was working from the Estonian Embassy in Moscow, and will now be replaced with a chargé d'affaires - a diplomat of a lower rank acting in place of an ambassador.

The statement from the Russian foreign ministry said: "In recent years, the Estonian leadership has purposefully destroyed the entire range of relations with Russia. Total Russophobia, the cultivation of hostility towards our country have been elevated by Tallinn to the rank of state policy.

"Now Estonia has taken a new unfriendly step to radically reduce the number of personnel of the Russian embassy in Tallinn, confirming the line towards the collapse of relations between our countries. As a response, the Russian side decided to downgrade the diplomatic representative in both countries to charge d'affaires."

The press release added that Mr Laidre was summoned to the ministry on Monday where he was asked to leave the country. The statement ended by stating that the development of the two countries' relationship now lies with Estonia.
[close]

https://news.err.ee/1608859871/russia-to-expel-estonian-ambassador

The Russian Foreign Ministry said it summoned Estonian Ambassador Margus Laidre on Monday and has given him until February 7 to leave the country.
The Russian MFA said that the leaders of Estonia have purposefully destroyed relations with Russia in recent years and described as the last straw Estonia's recent decision to expel 13 Russian diplomats and eight technical workers.

Spoiler
(just to save space) As its reaction, Russia decided to downgrade the level of mutual diplomatic representation to that of charge d'affaires ad interim. Russia places all responsibility for the development squarely with Estonia.

Downgrading diplomatic ties to the level of an charge d'affaires ad interim means that Russia will be recalling its ambassador from Estonia.

Minister of Foreign Affairs Urmas Reinsalu, attending the EU Foreign Affairs Council in Brussels, told ERR that he urges EU Member States to observe the principle of parity in diplomatic relations with Russia to keep the number of diplomats even.

"Estonia will not renounce its principle of parity, which we have communicated to the Russian Foreign Ministry."

"We will continue to support Ukraine as Russia is planning large-scale attacks, and we call on other like-minded countries to increase their assistance to Ukraine," the foreign minister said.

The Estonian Embassy in Moscow currently has six employees. In addition to Ambassador Margus Laidre, deputy head of the embassy Jana Vanamölder, press diplomat Kirsti Viljamaa, consular affairs director Tarmo Punnik, consul Laura Lilleväli and assistant Marina Grigorjeva.

Whether the charge d'affaires ad interim will be one of the embassy's current staff or whether a new person will be appointed should become clear in the near future.

Margus Laidre has been serving as Estonian ambassador to Moscow since 2018. Vladimir Lipayev became ambassador to Estonia last February, immediately before the Ukraine war.

Last Thursday, the Estonian government decided to make €113 million worth of military aid available to Ukraine for the largest single aid package to date. The package includes indirect fire and anti-tank weapons and munitions. Total military aid from Estonia to Ukraine grew to €370 million or a little over 1 percent of the Estonian GDP.

Estonian ambassadors to Moscow:

1992–1995 Jüri Kahn
1995–1999 Mart Helme
1999–2001 Tiit Matsulevitš
2001–2005 Karin Jaani
2005–2008 Marina Kaljurand
2008–2012 Simmu Tiik
2012–2015 Jüri Luik
2015–2018 Arti Hilpus
2018– Margus Laidre

Russian ambassadors to Tallinn:

1992–1997 Aleksandr Trofimov
1997–2000 Aleksei Glukhov
2001–2006 Konstantin Provalov
2006–2010 Nikolai Uspenski
2010–2015 Yuri Merzlyakov
2015–2022 Aleksandr Petrov
2022– Vladimir Lipayev
[close]

It won't stop there either. Expect more EU member nations' ambassadors to be recalled, probably in the order of nation that Putin wants to invade next....
« Last Edit: January 23, 2023, 12:00:32 pm by 24/7 »

Offline PaulF

  • https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/paulfelce
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 21,856
  • Nothing feels as good as fat tastes.
Surely that will be his downfall. His military is stretched in enough with Ukraine. Even if Estonia falls quickly He'll soon be facing Nato along a massive front.
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

Offline 24/7

  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 38,277
  • Super Title: Guru Jim
Surely that will be his downfall. His military is stretched in enough with Ukraine. Even if Estonia falls quickly He'll soon be facing Nato along a massive front.
I honestly don't think it will reach that point - my belief is that NATO will support Ukraine sufficiently to defeat Russia there, before anything escalates here or in any other NATO/EU member state. It just underlines though the importance of taking the subject seriously enough to prevent complacency. As Kallas warned last year, "We knew our neighbour then, we know our neighbour now." That's not Russophobia, that's just fact.

Offline baltic out here

  • Would you buy a second hand vinyl off this fella?!
  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 92
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
That phrase 'russophobia' is the exact same demagogy they used to reason their invasion of Ukraine - 'denazification'. In any case, their reasons for doing anything might as well be called flying spaghetti, it's all just plain old aggression.

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

  • Rockwool Marketing Board Spokesman. Cracker Wanker. Fucking calmest man on RAWK, alright? ALRIGHT?! Definitely a bigger cunt than YOU!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,458
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Surely that will be his downfall. His military is stretched in enough with Ukraine. Even if Estonia falls quickly He'll soon be facing Nato along a massive front.


If the German Tanks won't go to them then they'll go where the German tanks are.

It's a bold strategy alright  ;D
My cup, it runneth over, I'll never get my fill

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

  • Missing an asterisk - no, wait sorry, that's his rusty starfish..... RAWK Apple fanboy. Hedley Lamarr's bestest mate. Has done nothing incredible ever.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 73,660
  • Asterisks baby!
That phrase 'russophobia' is the exact same demagogy they used to reason their invasion of Ukraine - 'denazification'. In any case, their reasons for doing anything might as well be called flying spaghetti, it's all just plain old aggression.

Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline 24/7

  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 38,277
  • Super Title: Guru Jim

Online farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,761
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
This has been coming for some time but might help you all understand why there's a genuine worry about the question, "Who's next?"

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64372508

Russia orders Estonian ambassador to leave country
The Estonian ambassador in Russia has been ordered to leave the country by 7 February, after the Kremlin accused the country of "Russophobia".
In a statement, the Russian foreign ministry said Estonia had "purposefully destroyed" relations with Moscow.
Margus Laidre is the first ambassador Russia has expelled since invading Ukraine last year.
The move comes after Estonia recently ordered a reduction in the size of the Russian Embassy in Tallinn.
Spoiler
(just to save space)
Moscow was told to reduce its embassy from 17 to eight by the end of January. In a statement in January, Estonia said embassy staff had stopped seeking to advance relations between the countries since the conflict broke out.

Tensions were also raised last week after representatives from 11 Nato nations gathered at an army base in Estonia to discuss a range of new packages to help Ukraine recapture territory and fend off any further Russian advances.

Mr Laidre has been appointed to the Russian Federation since 2018, and has previously held the role in the UK and Finland.

He was working from the Estonian Embassy in Moscow, and will now be replaced with a chargé d'affaires - a diplomat of a lower rank acting in place of an ambassador.

The statement from the Russian foreign ministry said: "In recent years, the Estonian leadership has purposefully destroyed the entire range of relations with Russia. Total Russophobia, the cultivation of hostility towards our country have been elevated by Tallinn to the rank of state policy.

"Now Estonia has taken a new unfriendly step to radically reduce the number of personnel of the Russian embassy in Tallinn, confirming the line towards the collapse of relations between our countries. As a response, the Russian side decided to downgrade the diplomatic representative in both countries to charge d'affaires."

The press release added that Mr Laidre was summoned to the ministry on Monday where he was asked to leave the country. The statement ended by stating that the development of the two countries' relationship now lies with Estonia.
[close]

https://news.err.ee/1608859871/russia-to-expel-estonian-ambassador

The Russian Foreign Ministry said it summoned Estonian Ambassador Margus Laidre on Monday and has given him until February 7 to leave the country.
The Russian MFA said that the leaders of Estonia have purposefully destroyed relations with Russia in recent years and described as the last straw Estonia's recent decision to expel 13 Russian diplomats and eight technical workers.

Spoiler
(just to save space) As its reaction, Russia decided to downgrade the level of mutual diplomatic representation to that of charge d'affaires ad interim. Russia places all responsibility for the development squarely with Estonia.

Downgrading diplomatic ties to the level of an charge d'affaires ad interim means that Russia will be recalling its ambassador from Estonia.

Minister of Foreign Affairs Urmas Reinsalu, attending the EU Foreign Affairs Council in Brussels, told ERR that he urges EU Member States to observe the principle of parity in diplomatic relations with Russia to keep the number of diplomats even.

"Estonia will not renounce its principle of parity, which we have communicated to the Russian Foreign Ministry."

"We will continue to support Ukraine as Russia is planning large-scale attacks, and we call on other like-minded countries to increase their assistance to Ukraine," the foreign minister said.

The Estonian Embassy in Moscow currently has six employees. In addition to Ambassador Margus Laidre, deputy head of the embassy Jana Vanamölder, press diplomat Kirsti Viljamaa, consular affairs director Tarmo Punnik, consul Laura Lilleväli and assistant Marina Grigorjeva.

Whether the charge d'affaires ad interim will be one of the embassy's current staff or whether a new person will be appointed should become clear in the near future.

Margus Laidre has been serving as Estonian ambassador to Moscow since 2018. Vladimir Lipayev became ambassador to Estonia last February, immediately before the Ukraine war.

Last Thursday, the Estonian government decided to make €113 million worth of military aid available to Ukraine for the largest single aid package to date. The package includes indirect fire and anti-tank weapons and munitions. Total military aid from Estonia to Ukraine grew to €370 million or a little over 1 percent of the Estonian GDP.

Estonian ambassadors to Moscow:

1992–1995 Jüri Kahn
1995–1999 Mart Helme
1999–2001 Tiit Matsulevitš
2001–2005 Karin Jaani
2005–2008 Marina Kaljurand
2008–2012 Simmu Tiik
2012–2015 Jüri Luik
2015–2018 Arti Hilpus
2018– Margus Laidre

Russian ambassadors to Tallinn:

1992–1997 Aleksandr Trofimov
1997–2000 Aleksei Glukhov
2001–2006 Konstantin Provalov
2006–2010 Nikolai Uspenski
2010–2015 Yuri Merzlyakov
2015–2022 Aleksandr Petrov
2022– Vladimir Lipayev
[close]

It won't stop there either. Expect more EU member nations' ambassadors to be recalled, probably in the order of nation that Putin wants to invade next....
Squabbles like this happened a while back with Bulgaria, but didn't get much press. It is well known that the gross disproportion of Russian ambassadors to other countries as compared to the same countries embassies in Russia is used for one purpose - spying. That's been working since WWII. So, the Russians are sensitive to such changes...

I think the same embassy stuff happened in Austria too, but Austria has "special" laws. It is legal to spy in Austria, but not on Austrian citizens and entities. Open game for a country vs country in all other cases.
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Offline Red Beret

  • Yellow Beret. Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King. Bed-Exiting / Grunting / Bending Down / Cum Face Champion 2023.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 51,551
It would be utter insanity for Russia to open a second front in a war they're already struggling with - although given Putin is insane, it's not impossible either.

It seems to be diplomatic posturing and an attempt at intimidation - something to feed their mouthpieces in the West about "anti-Russia" agendas. The situation remains unchanged - Russia has to isolate Ukraine diplomatically, economically and militarily from NATO and the EU. All they can really do right now is puff out their chest and hope someone blinks, and that it sets off a domino effect of countries pulling their support.  However, nobody has.
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art

Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,479
  • The first five yards........
That phrase 'russophobia' is the exact same demagogy they used to reason their invasion of Ukraine - 'denazification'. In any case, their reasons for doing anything might as well be called flying spaghetti, it's all just plain old aggression.

'Russophobia' would be a rational response to Russian aggression, surely. Unless a country wants to be as miserable and as poor and as racist as Russia it makes sense to be permanently watchful and suspicious of the imperialist neighbour to our east.

Or are the Russians saying they are not actually aggressive and miserable and poor and racist?
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline 24/7

  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 38,277
  • Super Title: Guru Jim
Or are the Russians saying they are not actually aggressive and miserable and poor and racist?
They're the saviours of the world, don't you know!

Offline PaulF

  • https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/paulfelce
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 21,856
  • Nothing feels as good as fat tastes.
I think I heard a clip saying the South Africans are still conducting naval exercises with the Russians.  I know China are holding them at arm's length , bit I think there are a lot of tother countries that are at least neutral toward Russia. Whether that's tos secure affordable oil, gas and food or something less immediate I'm not sure.
It's certainly not seeming to be the case that if it escalates that's it's the world Vs Russia.
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

Online farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,761
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
'Russophobia' would be a rational response to Russian aggression, surely. Unless a country wants to be as miserable and as poor and as racist as Russia it makes sense to be permanently watchful and suspicious of the imperialist neighbour to our east.

Or are the Russians saying they are not actually aggressive and miserable and poor and racist?
The best example for that is Finland, I reckon. Their pro-Russian narrative (don't want to call it propaganda) starts from primary school and keeps on going. They had self-imposed chosen neutrality until the war. And now will join NATO... Had the Russofobia spread like COVID? :)
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Online farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,761
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
I think I heard a clip saying the South Africans are still conducting naval exercises with the Russians.  I know China are holding them at arm's length , bit I think there are a lot of tother countries that are at least neutral toward Russia. Whether that's tos secure affordable oil, gas and food or something less immediate I'm not sure.
It's certainly not seeming to be the case that if it escalates that's it's the world Vs Russia.
Some of that has to do with the US messing up in those countries. Brazil (and South America in general) is a prime example. These countries stay neutral because they don't want to see a monopolar power model in the world. They will bow to Russia and China as long as those are in conflict with the US.
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Offline 24/7

  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 38,277
  • Super Title: Guru Jim
The best example for that is Finland, I reckon. Their pro-Russian narrative (don't want to call it propaganda) starts from primary school and keeps on going. They had self-imposed chosen neutrality until the war. And now will join NATO... Had the Russofobia spread like COVID? :)
Are you certain Finns have a pro Russian narrative from early education? That doesn't match up with the 78% approval rating to join NATO and also doesn't seem to tie up with the 1944 Winter War, which Finland (ostensibly) won, even though it had to concede about 10% of its original land mass...

Offline baltic out here

  • Would you buy a second hand vinyl off this fella?!
  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 92
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
'Russophobia' would be a rational response to Russian aggression, surely.

Indeed in that sense, it would be. But the term also implies a phobia to all russians and that is conflicting, as there are big russian populations all over Eastern Europe. If i'd say I was russophobic, then that would make no sense as I have many local russian friends. As for the evil empire to the east... well you're born with a mix of phobia and fear against that here :)

Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,479
  • The first five yards........
Indeed in that sense, it would be. But the term also implies a phobia to all russians and that is conflicting, as there are big russian populations all over Eastern Europe. If i'd say I was russophobic, then that would make no sense as I have many local russian friends. As for the evil empire to the east... well you're born with a mix of phobia and fear against that here :)

Yes, I agree with you.

This is a familiar problem with loose terms like 'Russophobia' or 'Islamophobia'. Understood narrowly they can often make some sense. What sensible person wouldn't think the Russian state is bloody dangerous? Who wouldn't think the Koran is barmy (as the Bible is too)? But when the phrase is widened out to include "all Russian people" or "all Muslims" it is effectively being used to close down legitimate criticism of institutions and doctrines. Hence the preposterous charge "you are a racist" if you criticise Russian foreign policy or the misogyny of the Koran.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline Red Beret

  • Yellow Beret. Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King. Bed-Exiting / Grunting / Bending Down / Cum Face Champion 2023.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 51,551
As an aside, I hate how the term "phobia" has been co-opted to mean something that people hate, rather than something they fear.

It's interesting to read up on Europe in the immediate aftermath of WW2. Germans were forcefully expunged from settlements all over Europe. The Sudetenland of German speaking people in Czechoslovakia were repatriated, even though they were not born in Germany and been living in the area for generations.

Now we have Putin claiming ethnic Russians born in other countries somehow entitles Russia to that country's territory.  The situation is uncomfortably similar, especially if ethnic Russian minorities all over Europe begin agitating for closer ties to Moscow.
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art

Offline 24/7

  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 38,277
  • Super Title: Guru Jim
Now we have Putin claiming ethnic Russians born in other countries somehow entitles Russia to that country's territory.  The situation is uncomfortably similar, especially if ethnic Russian minorities all over Europe begin agitating for closer ties to Moscow.
I know what you mean about the 'phobia' meaning 'hate' thing and it's fucking irritating as a linguist to see that happening. The 2nd part of your post is uncomfortably FAMILIAR, as well as similar.......they've been using this tactic for centuries as justification for mass invasion, extermination, deportation, genocide, breeding-out, rape, pillage, murder and mayhem across any territory they border. Then they gaslight the people they torture by telling them it's their fault that they're Russian. I mean, for fuck's sake, how sick is that?!

Now it's our fault we're afraid of what they'll do next, it's our fault we create defences (note - not offensives) against not just a potential, but an actual threat of re-appropriation and resubmission to the Muscovite imperial dogma and it's our fault we fight back when threatened.

Sometimes a bear needs to be poked to keep it in its fucking cage.  :no
« Last Edit: January 24, 2023, 11:21:37 am by 24/7 »

Offline PaulF

  • https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/paulfelce
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 21,856
  • Nothing feels as good as fat tastes.
So Yoda was right?
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

Offline classycarra

  • The Left Disonourable Chuntering Member For Scousepool.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 30,507
The best example for that is Finland, I reckon. Their pro-Russian narrative (don't want to call it propaganda) starts from primary school and keeps on going. They had self-imposed chosen neutrality until the war. And now will join NATO... Had the Russofobia spread like COVID? :)
Kind of curious the origin of this view - have you been/do you know many Finns?

Doesn't tally at all with my experience with Finns (I suppose there may be some Karelians with family in Finland and Russia who identify that way, but you're probably more likely to find families with relatives killed during Russia's invasions.

If I was to try to characterise the Finnish psyche regarding Russia the thought of it being "pro" would never cross my mind. When I was there for their celebration of 100 years of independence I certainly didn't encounter a single positive reference to Russia. If there's a country that has formerly 'owned' Finland, that Finland has some feelings that approach "pro" about, it's Sweden.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2023, 01:47:27 pm by classycarra »

Offline stara

  • ra-boom-de-ay. RAWK's very own Dicktionary Corner.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,687
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
The best example for that is Finland, I reckon. Their pro-Russian narrative (don't want to call it propaganda) starts from primary school and keeps on going. They had self-imposed chosen neutrality until the war. And now will join NATO... Had the Russofobia spread like COVID? :)

50+1. Real FFP rules. Now.

Offline TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 94,250
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
These leopard tanks going to Ukraine won’t win the war…. But I read a good piece saying that they essentially wave a sign to Russia that Ukraine will never be allowed to lose the war.
Do Russia want to push it further and bring long range weapons and next gen jet fighters into play?  That might be the outcome if they don’t back down.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Lusty

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,307
These leopard tanks going to Ukraine won’t win the war…. But I read a good piece saying that they essentially wave a sign to Russia that Ukraine will never be allowed to lose the war.
Do Russia want to push it further and bring long range weapons and next gen jet fighters into play?  That might be the outcome if they don’t back down.
I think that if Russia realises they can't win the war after their upcoming Spring offensive, the next plan will be to drag it on for as long as possible and cause as much civilian damage as they can, and hope for a regime change in the US next year.  If Trump, or someone like him, gets in next year then the Western coalition won't hold.

Offline 24/7

  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 38,277
  • Super Title: Guru Jim
If Trump...gets in next year then the Western coalition won't hold.
We may as well just push the Big Red Button if that happens. Not kidding. I'll give up on humanity if he gets in and Russia gets any leeway in Ukraine as a result of it.

Online farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,761
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
Are you certain Finns have a pro Russian narrative from early education? That doesn't match up with the 78% approval rating to join NATO and also doesn't seem to tie up with the 1944 Winter War, which Finland (ostensibly) won, even though it had to concede about 10% of its original land mass...
Perhaps "pro-Russian" was not the best choice of words. What I meant is that they were not brought up with Russia being the Cold War enemy as that was done in other Western nations. Russian was even thought in schools and universities (not all like in the Eastern Block, but quite a few). The Finnish neutrality was a chosen neutrality, not imposed by the Powers as the Austrian one. I don't think the Finns feared Russia after WWII, I'm not sure they do now either, but there is a swing in the perception.

After the Russian invasion, there were a lot of reports from Finland that shared one word in particular - disappointment. Yes, there was anger, fear and all that, but the most reported feeling was the disappointment. You can easily find references online like these:
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/something-new-something-old-finland-verge-new-russia-relationship
https://valtioneuvosto.fi/en/-//1410845/finland-freezes-higher-education-and-research-cooperation-with-russia-support-for-ukrainian-students-in-finland

Now, of course, the backing for joining NATO is very strong. That's my perception, but maybe the resident RAWK Finns want to set the record straight?
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Offline Red Beret

  • Yellow Beret. Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King. Bed-Exiting / Grunting / Bending Down / Cum Face Champion 2023.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 51,551
I think that if Russia realises they can't win the war after their upcoming Spring offensive, the next plan will be to drag it on for as long as possible and cause as much civilian damage as they can, and hope for a regime change in the US next year.  If Trump, or someone like him, gets in next year then the Western coalition won't hold.

Trump is not getting in next year. Even if he wins the primary. In any case, it's still more than 20 months away.

With the new patriot batteries in Ukraine, causing damage deep behind the lines will become increasingly difficult to Russia. Yes, they're going to go for maximum damage, but it's whether they can afford the cost.
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art