Topic: General political discussion Part II

[Mutton Geoff]

and quite right too, the club should in no way be used as a prop for that absolute gobshite, that banner is an absolute embarrassment but that would be a different level

seriously are you sure you support the right club? There are a lot of banners at the game and i am bloody well proud of all of them , they are created by the fans who are passionate about this club and not one of them or their banners should be called an embarrassment , although ironically most of your posts could be

[Lush is the best medicine...]

and you are basing that assertion on exactly what ? seems like you are using Shankly to spout your own prejudicial shit opinion on this matter and that is about as dishonest and contemptible as it could ever get 

you think someone like shankly would put up with utter incompetence knowing all we know of him, or he would love anyone who plays the socialist card because he was one?

seriously are you sure you support the right club? There are a lot of banners at the game and i am bloody well proud of all of them , they are created by the fans who are passionate about this club and not one of them or their banners should be called an embarrassment , although ironically most of your posts could be

Matchdays aren’t the place for people to put their party politics on display, have no problem if it’s outside the ground but those two have no place having a banner on the kop and it’s something that will be seen in a very bad light in years to come, only two politicians who I’d say do are Rotherham and burnham

And yeah the whole ‘do you support the right club’ shit because I’m not a blind follower of the Labour Party, politely do one there mate

[Mutton Geoff]

you think someone like shankly would put up with utter incompetence knowing all we know of him, or he would love anyone who plays the socialist card because he was one?
Matchdays aren’t the place for people to put their party politics on display, have no problem if it’s outside the ground but those two have no place having a banner on the kop and it’s something that will be seen in a very bad light in years to come, only two politicians who I’d say do are Rotherham and burnham

And yeah the whole ‘do you support the right club’ shit because I’m not a blind follower of the Labour Party, politely do one there mate

Listen fella i dont care which party you follow but slagging off the work that goes into those banners and the people that make them disgusts me and the day political banners are not on the Kop we all might as well pack up and let the day trippers and the corporate layabouts take over.

As for the rest you seek to again use the name of Shankly for your own narrow political opinions and frankly you know fuck all about what Bill might have thought about Corbyn or the state of the party (none of us do) but only you are trying to use him to give your mindset of complete hatred for the man and seemingly the party any credibility and also insulting decent Kopites to do it.


Jog on fella you sicken me!

[classycarra]

You get disgusted and sickened pretty easily Geoff, let's be fair. I think most decent kopites can handle someone thinking their banner is crap without drama.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Listen fella i dont care which party you follow but slagging off the work that goes into those banners and the people that make them disgusts me and the day political banners are not on the Kop we all might as well pack up and let the day trippers and the corporate layabouts take over.

As for the rest you seek to again use the name of Shankly for your own narrow political opinions and frankly you know fuck all about what Bill might have thought about Corbyn or the state of the party (none of us do) but only you are trying to use him to give your mindset of complete hatred for the man and seemingly the party any credibility and also insulting decent Kopites to do it.


Jog on fella you sicken me!

tiny violins playing here la

[classycarra]

The Labour LGBT+ equality campaigning group have written a letter to the NEC and local body to ask them to overturn the decision to waive their own rules to let in known bigot Salma Yaqoob, and then select her for West Midlands mayor candidacy.

https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1186246558314106881

Rosie Duffield MP says the Women's PLP group have also written to Formby.

[ShakaHislop]

Mike Hill: Sex harassment claim investigated by Labour

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-49795248

EXCL Labour MP Mike Hill has whip restored after sexual harassment probe dropped

A Labour MP has had the party whip restored after a sexual harassment complaint against him was dropped, PoliticsHome has learned.

Hartlepool MP Mike Hill had his party membership suspended and the whip withdrawn last month as Labour carried out a probe into claims he harassed a parliamentary staffer.

The Sunday Times reported that he was accused of making unwanted advances to the woman, who is said to have worked in the Commons until this year.

But it is understood that the woman has now asked Labour not to investigate the complaint, meaning Mr Hill is no longer suspended by the party.

Under the party's rules, Labour cannot investigate an allegation against a complainant's wishes, and cannot suspend an individual if no probe is ongoing.

Commons records show that the MP had the whip restored on 17 October.

In a statement, Mr Hill told PoliticsHome: "It's been a tough time for my family and for my staff but I would like to thank the people of Hartlepool and the Labour Party for all the support they've given to me."

A Labour spokesperson said at the time of Mr Hill's suspension: "The Labour Party takes all complaints of sexual harassment extremely seriously, which are fully investigated and any appropriate disciplinary action taken in line with the Party’s rules and procedures.

“We are determined to challenge and overturn sexual harassment and misogyny within politics and across society as a whole. We cannot comment on individual complaints."

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/107445/excl-labour-mp-mike-hill-has-whip-restored-after

[ShakaHislop]

NEW: Corbyn ally Claudia Webbe helped draft Labour parliamentary selection rules

Now she's accused of being "referee and player" as leaked doc shows she applied for 4 seats and "Any". Others only get 3

Also in running for two seats she didn't apply for

Other "stitch up" news: 

- Coventry NW threatening to boycott shortlist and vote to reopen nominations

- Ealing North demand process is reopened, after Corbyn pal and Islington cllr shortlisted

- Wavertree sure start worker says unions called her and said: "Back off"

In Islington South, Jas Athwal has hired top City law firm Mishcon de Reya to challenge his suspension on sexual harassment claims

Lansman + others already said claim of politically motivated ban is vexatious as all such complaints anonymised

He says it was to help Sam Tarry



Here meanwhile is relevant bit of Webbe application. So she didn't apply for Streatham or Cities of London and Westminster, per this

Those close to her say no rules at all were breached and picking 3 is just a guideline

https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1185836356020387840

[filopastry]

Personally if I was a member of the local party voting to select a candidate for Poplar and Limehouse, I would at least want a candidate who could make enough effort to spell the name of the constituency correctly.

[ShakaHislop]

EXCLUSIVE: @NazShahBfd to launch legal bid against her own party, over Labour's decision to shortlist the former leader of the Respect Party as a candidate for West Midlands Mayor. Huge row about to get very toxic indeed.

Tonight @NazShahBfd told the weekly meeting of Labour MPs:

"She stood against us six times. She gave a platform for me to be 'hijab-shamed', which I can only equate to 'slut-shaming'. She is no socialist, this is George Galloway style politics."

https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1186327059141988352

Labour's shadow minister Naz Shah 'to launch legal action' against party over West Midlands Mayor candidate Salma Yaqoob

A shadow minister is expected to launch legal action against the Labour Party on Tuesday, in a bitter row over the selection of a candidate for West Midlands Mayor.

ITV News understands that Naz Shah, Shadow Minister for Women and Equalities, will begin a legal dispute with her own party over the shortlisting of Salma Yaqoob.

Ms Yaqoob is the former leader of the Respect Party and ran as an independent candidate against Naz Shah in Bradford West in 2017.

The Labour MP claims Ms Yaqoob ran a "despicable" campaign against her, allegedly attacking her 'honour' and class, which Ms Shah says led her to consider suicide.

Ms Shah raised the issue at the weekly meeting of Labour MPs on Monday night, saying: "She (Ms Yaqoob) stood against us six times.

"She gave a platform for me to be 'hijab-shamed', which I can only equate to 'slut-shaming'. She is no socialist, this is George Galloway style politics."

Last week, Ms Shah took her concerns directly with Jeremy Corbyn at a meeting between BAME MPs and the Labour leader.

ITV News understands the legal challenge will centre on the fact that candidates normally have to be Labour members for two years before being selected, but Ms Yaqoob is understood to have only joined the party four months ago. In this case, the rules have been waived by Labour.

Two other groups of Labour MPs have also raised concerns, with both the Women's Parliamentary Labour Party (PLP) and LGBT+ PLP writing separate letters to the party about Ms Yaqoob's alleged behaviour.

The Women's PLP wrote, "Ms Yaqoob's campaign against Naz in the last general election should render her ineligible to hold party membership...it is, among other things, a disservice to her that the party might allow a woman who bullied and personally targeted her to represent us in an election."

In their letter, the LGBT+ PLP accused Ms Yaqoob of homophobia, including allegedly referring to being LGBT as a "choice of lifestyle."

Ms Yaqoob is an anti-war activist, whose candidacy has been backed by Momentum nationally, as well as other figures close to the Labour leader.

On the weekend, the Shadow Justice Secretary Richard Burgon tweeted a picture of himself alongside her at a Stand Up To Racism conference, describing her as "a courageous opponent of racism and war, who inspires people to fight for a better society based on justice, equality and socialism”.

On Monday evening Salma Yaqoob issued a statement on Twitter addressing the various allegations, which she described as either "false" or "seriously misleading".

"I want to be clear that I stand in full solidarity with the LGBTQ+ community and I am absolutely committed to confronting all forms of homophobia, bi-phobia and transphobia in our society," she wrote.

In relation to her election campaign in Bradford West in 2017, Ms Yaqoob has previously said: “I did not run or endorse a campaign of misogyny, patriarchy and clan politics. Even as a political opponent I showed [Naz Shah] respect as a woman and a public figure.

"As Shadow Equalities and Women Minister, I would hope she would welcome the principle of women coming forward for political office – even those she disagrees with. I am saddened that she is lobbying nationally to limit the right of local Labour members to make their own choice by seeking to remove me from even a potential shortlist."

ITV News has contacted the Labour Party for comment.

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-10-21/shadow-minister-naz-shah-to-launch-legal-action-against-labour-party-over-west-midlands-mayor-candidate-salma-yaqoob/

[ShakaHislop]

Ruth Smeeth expressing total fury at PLP over poss shortlisting for Liverpool seat. Says some discussion that NEC wanted to bring forward the "two least antisemitic" candidates. Says that alone proves party's claim it's not institutionally anti-Semitic  is "a load of bollocks".

Helen Jones slammed misogyny in the party too. And now MPs raising Salma Yaqoob shortlisting for West Midlands Metro Mayor, real anger at her LGBT stance and fact she stood against party v recently.

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1186330553806675970

[TepidT2O]

Extraordinary.

They literally don’t give a fuck

[classycarra]

Extraordinary.

They literally don’t give a fuck

They do give a fuck. That’s why they’re doing it.

Here they are trying to gaslight Jewish people again yesterday
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/labour-line-up-jew-process-councillor-as-dame-louise-ellman-replacement-1.490243

[gazzalfc]

They do give a fuck. That’s why they’re doing it.

Here they are trying to gaslight Jewish people again yesterday
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/labour-line-up-jew-process-councillor-as-dame-louise-ellman-replacement-1.490243

Ah I thought I recognised her. I got spam abuse on twitter with videos of her talking outside St Georges hall about 'How safe it is for jews in the Labour party and that she doesn't recognise Louise Ellmans description of her experiences'

Still the safest Labour seat. Corbyn's comments about Ellman last night will see an easy majority for Riverside

[Red-Soldier]

On who would make best Prime Minister:

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson: 43%
Jeremy Corbyn: 20%
Not sure: 34%

via YouGov

[Red-Soldier]

[filopastry]

Latest Voting Intention from Deltapoll (comparison with 5-7 Sept):
Con 37 (+6)
Lab 24 (-4)
Lib Dem 19 (+2)
Brexit Party 11 (-2)
Others 9 (-2)
Sample: 2,017 Fieldwork: 18-21 Oct 2019

[RobbieRedman]

Just shows what a fantastic job Corbyn has done 

[TepidT2O]

Just shows what a fantastic job Corbyn has done 

The reverse Midas touch.

Every vote turns to shite

[Lush is the best medicine...]

The greatest thing to ever happen to the Tory party

[ShakaHislop]

From last week

#IStandWithCorbyn was trending.

Clearly there’s support for Jeremy Corbyn within the Labour party membership & beyond, but are people close to him looking closely at his personal polling & the polling in recent decades, and putting pressure on him to step down?

THREAD …

In the most recent monthly Ipsos MORI Political Monitor, Jeremy Corbyn’s net leadership satisfaction scores hit -60% (16% satisfied vs. 76% dissatisfied), a level seen by no other leader of the opposition (or prime minister) since this series began in the 1970s.

2/27

What’s happened since the last general election & the summer of 2017, when Jeremy Corbyn’s popularity was at its peak?

Is his support holding up with some groups of voters, has he won certain groups over since 2017, and do the trends suggest that a recovery is likely?

3/27

I’ve reviewed the data from Ipsos MORI (thanks to @keiranpedley for some hard-to-find data) & looked at various demographic groups since the 2017 election (so you don’t have to), to illustrate the scale of the challenge for Mr Corbyn.

WARNING: Thread contains many charts.

4/27

https://twitter.com/james_bowley/status/1184096064644833280

I found this bit to be one of the most striking.

Among 18-24 year olds, Mr Corbyn saw his ratings improve by 33% during the election campaign from +1% to +34%, & peaked during the summer of 2017 at +52%.

His net ratings have since fallen by *95 points* to -43% in September 2019, the biggest drop across the age groups.

10/27



If Mr Corbyn’s satisfaction ratings improve by the same amount during the next election campaign as the last, he would still score 11% lower than before the 2017 campaign began, which indicates just how far Mr Corbyn’s ratings have fallen with young voters.

11/27

[Sangria]

The greatest thing to ever happen to the Tory party

When people were arguing against him in 2015, I don't think anyone imagined just how bad he would turn out to be. Lacking imagination, we only thought that the Tories would be in power for a generation. Instead, we'll have the Tories in power for a generation, and we'll be out of the EU and the UK will have split up.

[oldfordie]

When people were arguing against him in 2015, I don't think anyone imagined just how bad he would turn out to be. Lacking imagination, we only thought that the Tories would be in power for a generation. Instead, we'll have the Tories in power for a generation, and we'll be out of the EU and the UK will have split up.

I can understand and accept what happened in 2015, I cant understand what Labour members were thinking in 2016 when Corbyn made his arguments to remain leader when challenged by Smith.
Corbyn supporters were no different to Johnson supporters now when they applaud his every word, clap any old s,, without actually considering what they said.

[Zeb]

Yet he's still got a fair chance of forming a minority government after an election because of how vote is currently splitting. He's also not far away from the point where he's the wrong side of a landslide. Weird stuff.

Next election could be wild, or it could be a procession. Having it as a referendum on Corbyn is probably not going to be Labour's happy place but not seeing what other parties lose by doing it. Hard yards when voters think Johnson is more honest than your leader.

[oldfordie]

Yet he's still got a fair chance of forming a minority government after an election because of how vote is currently splitting. He's also not far away from the point where he's the wrong side of a landslide. Weird stuff.

Next election could be wild, or it could be a procession. Having it as a referendum on Corbyn is probably not going to be Labour's happy place but not seeing what other parties lose by doing it. Hard yards when voters think Johnson is more honest than your leader.

He can form a minority government now without a election if he had the backing of other MPs.
A Labour minority is not going to happen with Corbyn as leader.
2.2 million people attended a remain rally on Saturday, Corbyn chose to speak at a meeting in Liverpool to a few hundred, am sure everyone of them were fans, I doubt another Labour leader fighting this Tory Brexit would have missed the opportunity to speak to 2.2 million voters opposed to this Tory Brexit knowing he will soon be fighting a GE. why did Corbyn go missing? does Corbyn fear a mass rally of remain voters.
The best we can hope for is the make up of Parliament changes, most of the Tory rebels who opposed Brexit will be gone, replaced by Johnsons clones. we can only hope remain voters vote enough remain MPs in to shift the balance for remain . I doubt it will happen.

[Zeb]

He can form a minority government now without a election if he had the backing of other MPs.
A Labour majority is not going to happen with Corbyn as leader.
2.2 million people attended a remain rally on Saturday, Corbyn chose to speak at a meeting in Liverpool to a few hundred, am sure everyone of them were fans, I doubt another Labour leader fighting this Tory Brexit would have missed the opportunity to speak to 2.2 million voters opposed to this Tory Brexit knowing he will soon be fighting a GE. why did Corbyn go missing? does Corbyn fear a mass rally of remain voters.
The best we can hope for is the make up of Parliament changes, most of the Tory rebels who opposed Brexit will be gone, replaced by Johnsons clones. we can only hope remain voters vote enough remain MPs in to shift the balance for remain . I doubt it will happen.

Yeah, true on a minority government already but no Corbyn (or equivalent from hard left) and we'd have had an election last year or earlier this one.

Labour are trying to repeat 2017 so far as I can see. To be fair, there's little point putting Corbyn in front of people who aren't there to support him. Would just make his problems worse and not sure anyone who has been running 'remain' stuff for the past couple of years would benefit from a Corbyn seal of approval. McDonnell flies under the radar a bit more right now and can do it better.

One very plausible outcome to next election is that we end up with a lot of constituencies where the split of the vote turn it effectively a set of head to heads against the Tories but with a different party doing it in each part of the country - not necessarily from organised tactical voting but just us knowing how best to hurt a party in our constituency at a general election. 97 showed how big that can play out with a popular opposition. Split could be kind of how Scotland is currently with a lot of 'SNP vs next biggest party seats' but it tells you nothing about how the vote in Liverpool is going. You'd end up with pretty similar Parliament to this one as it is now but replace all the current independents (40) with new Lib Dem and SNP MPs. An awful result for Labour but easily spinnable as the inevitable march of a movement or whatever. That's one theory of it right now anyway, not that things will stay the same.

[oldfordie]

Yeah, true on a minority government already but no Corbyn (or equivalent from hard left) and we'd have had an election last year or earlier this one.

Labour are trying to repeat 2017 so far as I can see. To be fair, there's little point putting Corbyn in front of people who aren't there to support him. Would just make his problems worse and not sure anyone who has been running 'remain' stuff for the past couple of years would benefit from a Corbyn seal of approval. McDonnell flies under the radar a bit more right now and can do it better.

One very plausible outcome to next election is that we end up with a lot of constituencies where the split of the vote turn it effectively a set of head to heads against the Tories but with a different party doing it in each part of the country - not necessarily from organised tactical voting but just us knowing how best to hurt a party in our constituency at a general election. 97 showed how big that can play out with a popular opposition. Split could be kind of how Scotland is currently with a lot of 'SNP vs next biggest party seats' but it tells you nothing about how the vote in Liverpool is going. You'd end up with pretty similar Parliament to this one as it is now but replace all the current independents (40) with new Lib Dem and SNP MPs. An awful result for Labour but easily spinnable as the inevitable march of a movement or whatever. That's one theory of it right now anyway, not that things will stay the same.

Yeah, we will not get a Labour majority but the SNP and Lib Dems could swing the balance to remain, Corbyn resigns and Labour are back in the game.it's the best we can hope for right now but I think Labour will come out of the election campaign looking bad and it will cost them seats. lets hope the Lib Dems win those seats.

[Sangria]

Yeah, we will not get a Labour majority but the SNP and Lib Dems could swing the balance to remain, Corbyn resigns and Labour are back in the game.it's the best we can hope for right now but I think Labour will come out of the election campaign looking bad and it will cost them seats. lets hope the Lib Dems win those seats.

There aren't many seats where Labour and the Lib Dems are head to head as 1st and 2nd. The seats where Lib Dems are realistically looking at gains are mostly Tory ex-LD, but the default mode of Momentum-types is to attack the Lib Dems as Tory enablers and vow never to vote LD. Labour won't realistically be forming a government, so they're shoring up their position as official opposition by attacking the Lib Dems.

[Circa1892]

Potentially 5 weeks out from a GE and Unites priority is deselecting the MP in Scotland with the biggest Labour majority. McCluskey needs to fuck off.

[TepidT2O]

Why would labour ever vote for an election that they have so little chance of winning?

Just bizarre

[TepidT2O]

Kay Burley: 'The polls said you won’t win.'

Richard Burgon: 'The polls said we wouldn’t win last time.'

Burley: 'You didn’t.'


What a fucking idiot

[Red-Soldier]

Kay Burley: 'The polls said you won’t win.'

Richard Burgon: 'The polls said we wouldn’t win last time.'

Burley: 'You didn’t.'


What a fucking idiot

You need to use Everton logic.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Kay Burley: 'The polls said you won’t win.'

Richard Burgon: 'The polls said we wouldn’t win last time.'

Burley: 'You didn’t.'


What a fucking idiot

https://twitter.com/jamin2g/status/1186917487897698305?s=21

Fucking idiot is kind

[Red-Soldier]

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 37% (+6)
LAB: 24% (-4)
LDEM: 19% (+2)
BREX: 11% (-2)

via DeltaPoll UK, 18 - 21 Oct
Chgs. w/ 07 Sep

[filopastry]

I do think Labour's Brexit position is going to be problematic in an election campaign.

The govt do seem to have successfully fostered the narrative that we just need to get on with it, and that it has been hanging over us too long.

I'm really not sure how much appetite there is now for a further renegotiation with no idea of what that deal will look like by the end of it, and with no idea if Labour will camapign for or against the deal in the lengthy referendum campaign that follows.

Like others I'm not saying the position is wrong or isn't sensible when you really think about it but it is a tough sell to the public.

[oldfordie]

There aren't many seats where Labour and the Lib Dems are head to head as 1st and 2nd. The seats where Lib Dems are realistically looking at gains are mostly Tory ex-LD, but the default mode of Momentum-types is to attack the Lib Dems as Tory enablers and vow never to vote LD. Labour won't realistically be forming a government, so they're shoring up their position as official opposition by attacking the Lib Dems.

Yeah,  lets hope the Lib Dems can win enough seats off the Tories to counter the lost Labour seats. doesn't look hopeful if the bookies betting is anything to go by.
Tories price shortening every day. now 1/5-1/6 to win next GE.

[filopastry]

Yeah,  lets hope the Lib Dems can win enough seats off the Tories to counter the lost Labour seats. doesn't look hopeful if the bookies betting is anything to go by.
Tories price shortening every day. now 1/5-1/6 to win next GE.

They would certainly enter the election as heavy favourites, and should do.

For Labour I suppose the hope is to flip some of the "Don't Knows" who voted Labour last time, and that is porbably achievable, and to get some momentum going over the course of the campaign, and start squeezing the LD vote when they open up a more significant lead on them and can protray that as a wasted vote.

If nothing else we know Corbyn is a good campaigner, although probably not going to have many big outdoor rallies in November and December!

They have a lot of ground to make up though and I think opinions are more hardened towards Corbyn now than they were in 2017, so I think Remainer desperation to keep the Tories out at any cost, is going to have to be stronger than it seems to be now.

I don't see the Tories shooting themselves in the foot with their manifesto as badly as they did in 2017 either.

[Circa1892]

All this stuff about Corbyn and polls and turning it around forgets the fact he's a known quantity now. Most people didn't have a fucking clue who he was in 2017.

[PatriotScouser]

Lewis Goodall with some really good analysis on his twitter feed on why a GE is inevitable sooner rather than later.

[filopastry]

Lewis Goodall with some really good analysis on his twitter feed on why a GE is inevitable sooner rather than later.

Goodall is one of the few broadcast journalists who is actually worth following on Twitter, he actually questions things for a start, which seems to be all too rare