Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Hopefully that's the end game. Looks like the first stage is to make ERG look like the game is up, they know people are beginning to see them for what they are. Charlatans the lot of them.

quite funny seeing mogg one week say 15 year forecasts are ridiculous and then comes up with his own 15 year forecast

[Zeb]

Common theme emerging that the government just hasn't had the competence to even begin to address what they needed to have done to be tubthumping about 'no deal is better than a bad deal'.

Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Michael Gove’s department will not be ready for a no-deal Brexit and does not yet understand the scale of work it must complete, an auditors’ report has found.

After examining the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs’ preparations for Britain leaving the EU, the National Audit Office said Defra officials had failed to hire enough vets and this could severely disrupt exports of UK food.

Defra will have completed just 15 out of 154 of the national export agreements needed to maintain the trade of animals and animal products with the EU after Britain leaves, auditors discovered.

Plans to increase patrols of fishing waters were also unlikely to be ready, and the UK’s £17bn chemical export market to the EU was facing the possibility of grinding to a halt, the NAO report said.

There was also a “high risk” that Defra would be unable to deliver planned legislation by March 2019, because it did not have time to pass three bills and 93 statutory instruments.

The report is expected to be highly embarrassing for Gove, a principal figure in the Vote Leave campaign, who recently told farmers and the food industry that his department would be ready for Brexit.

In July, he said he believed that a tariff-free trade deal was likely. Asked by the BCC what would happen if there was no deal, he said: “Well, we will get that deal and I’m confident that food and farming not just in Wales but across the UK will benefit from a win-win situation.”

Defra is responsible for 55 of the 319 EU-related workstreams across government, covering chemical and agrifood industries, agriculture, fisheries and the environment.

The report concludes: “For some workstreams, Defra has passed the point where it will be able to deliver what it had initially planned for a ‘no-deal’ exit in March 2019.”

The department has a shortfall in the number of vets to process the increased number of export health certificates (EHCs) that are expected to be needed in the event of no deal. The report said food exports could be delayed at the border or prevented from leaving the UK.

Defra needed to negotiate with 154 non-EU countries to agree acceptance of UK versions of more than 1,400 EHCs, the report said.

“[Defra] is focusing on reaching agreement with 15 of these countries that it estimates account for approximately 90% of total exports to non-EU countries of animal products, food and live animals, but is not expecting to be able to complete negotiations with all the remaining 139 countries by March 2019,” it added.

The UK chemical industry, the country’s second biggest manufacturing exporter, is at risk of disruption without a new negotiated settlement with the EU.

“To recover market access, they would need to re-register their products on the EU’s system via an affiliate or representative located in an EU member state. This is a lengthy process that cannot be started until the UK has left the EU,” auditors said.

“If there is still a significant likelihood of no deal being reached in October 2018, Defra is planning to launch an emergency recruitment campaign of vets to bring capacity at least part-way towards the minimum level required.”

Amyas Morse, the head of the NAO, said the scale and complexity of what needed to be done to leave the EU had left Defra struggling, although officials have done relatively well under very difficult circumstances.

“Like other departments, it now must ensure its voice is heard by the centre of government to provide an accurate picture of what is possible if a negotiated settlement is not reached, and even if it is,” he said.

Grauniad

[rob1966]

Yeah, I see what you mean, they must have made the decision to set up in Slovakia well before the referendum but they started looking at Slovakia as a contingency plan if Brexit went ahead. their initial plans may have been changed already for all we know as I doubt they would announce to move production from the UK to Slovakia in 4-6 yrs, I doubt if they would have much problem relocating senior skilled UK workers but their are many men with skills in car factories that take a few yrs to develop, not a problem though as all car factories start off on very low production levels at first for this reason, I doubt if they would ask UK workers to go out and train their workforce if the plant is threatening UK plants,they would probably bring in the skills from India and China, Nissan would bring the skills in from Japan. it's all about long term strategy and long term investment to keep the company viable.
Brexit is threatening their viability, they've been telling everyone this for 2 yrs but for some reason people think these CEOs are bluffing, factories standing idol for hours on a regular basis will ruin them.if they thought this could be solved or the problem was short term then they would put up with delays but this a problem they know they will have for possibly decades.

My line of thinking was, seeing as the Range Rover is the flagship vehicle for the brand, then just relocate the whole workforce, or at least the ones who are vital to production, with the intention of keeping them on, to have the new factory running at full capacity asap and then start to employ locals for the unskilled jobs and then eventually, through natural means, the workforce will be replaced by EU nationals. JLR did start recruiting and training about 2 years ago in Slovakia ready for the new factory, so they could also get a 2 year start.

The other thing that occurred to me is the USA. Trump has been going on about getting foreign cars built in the USA. I'm sure he would give JLR etc a lot of sweeteners to open a plant in Detroit. My work opened up Tool Hire shops in Florida and then bought a US company and we had UK based staff go over to train and also work full time in the branches and IT dept. I'm sure that deals could be struck to allow the existing vital workforce to live and work in the States, the setting up of a new factory would bring hundreds of thousands of jobs to the supply chain over there.

Brexiteers may think it would never happen, but when you are talking about £1.2 billion a year, then JLR will do what works for them.

[No666]

New editor who is a remainer so hopefully pro remain now.

Geordie Greig was finessed into Associated and then into the Mail by Lady Rothermere, who - it is said - was highly embarrassed by Paul Dacre and the reaction to him in her social circles. However, while Greig is a dapper, socially poised Old Etonian (and believe me, he doesn't turn it on for those he considers beneath him) and a One Nation Tory (I would guess) he knows, as does Lady R, that he has to tread on eggshells with the Mail readership. Basically, his brief is to make the Mail less toxic while retaining its toxic readers. Good luck with that. He ran a piece in favour of the Chequers deal in the last few days and the comments beneath burned holes in your eyes. He may have to row it back sooner rather than later.

[redbyrdz]

Except for the British ones, who will no longer have the right to work in the EU?

And this is why free movement of goods and free movement of labour are linked, and the EU won't back down on them.

[oldfordie]

ERG talking about no border checks at border, they do the checks away from the border somewhere else.
In other words, the solution is to move the border. it's still a hard border wherever you put it.

[oldfordie]

My line of thinking was, seeing as the Range Rover is the flagship vehicle for the brand, then just relocate the whole workforce, or at least the ones who are vital to production, with the intention of keeping them on, to have the new factory running at full capacity asap and then start to employ locals for the unskilled jobs and then eventually, through natural means, the workforce will be replaced by EU nationals. JLR did start recruiting and training about 2 years ago in Slovakia ready for the new factory, so they could also get a 2 year start.

The other thing that occurred to me is the USA. Trump has been going on about getting foreign cars built in the USA. I'm sure he would give JLR etc a lot of sweeteners to open a plant in Detroit. My work opened up Tool Hire shops in Florida and then bought a US company and we had UK based staff go over to train and also work full time in the branches and IT dept. I'm sure that deals could be struck to allow the existing vital workforce to live and work in the States, the setting up of a new factory would bring hundreds of thousands of jobs to the supply chain over there.

Brexiteers may think it would never happen, but when you are talking about £1.2 billion a year, then JLR will do what works for them.

If you've read that Slovakia have been training for 2 yrs then I think they have everything in place already. it's about investment now.
I was really talking about how they would start up a new car plant.
JLRs first priority is quality. they would give the plant plenty of time to train, they would be happy with just a few cars a hour at first and increase production at certain stages till they are up to full production, say 18month min.
Yeah the USA could be another choice they would consider as USA sales are higher, I dont think they will have any problems finding the skills in the USA.
All this is a last resort for car companies, they dont want to move but they will if thats the only way to save the companies future.

[rob1966]

ERG talking about no border checks at border, they do the checks away from the border somewhere else.
In other words, the solution is to move the border. it's still a hard border wherever you put it.

Sounds just like flying to the USA via Eire - you get all your border checks done in Eire so you are cleared for immigration on landing. However, they still need a physical border to stop people crossing outside of the checkpoints that they will need to build.

All lies as usual.

If you've read that Slovakia have been training for 2 yrs then I think they have everything in place already. it's about investment now.
I was really talking about how they would start up a new car plant.
JLRs first priority is quality. they would give the plant plenty of time to train, they would be happy with just a few cars a hour at first and increase production at certain stages till they are up to full production, say 18month min.
Yeah the USA could be another choice they would consider as USA sales are higher, I dont think they will have any problems finding the skills in the USA.
All this is a last resort for car companies, they dont want to move but they will if thats the only way to save the companies future.

Yes, JLR started recruiting and training two years ago for the workforce for the plant that is due to open this month, so they could easily start to train a new batch and even get them on the production line in the current factory. Combine that with skilled staff from the UK and I cannot see a reason why another plant could be up and running in 2021.

The EU would assist car makers all they can, a great way to kick us in the balls by taking all the car plants off us.

[ShakaHislop]

Brexit: Do claims for a 'clean break' add up?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45488124

[oldfordie]

Sounds just like flying to the USA via Eire - you get all your border checks done in Eire so you are cleared for immigration on landing. However, they still need a physical border to stop people crossing outside of the checkpoints that they will need to build.

All lies as usual.

Yes, JLR started recruiting and training two years ago for the workforce for the plant that is due to open this month, so they could easily start to train a new batch and even get them on the production line in the current factory. Combine that with skilled staff from the UK and I cannot see a reason why another plant could be up and running in 2021.

The EU would assist car makers all they can, a great way to kick us in the balls by taking all the car plants off us.

Yeah, if JLR want it then it will happen, it's also about capacity as well.are they capable of meeting demand running flat out 24hrs a day. if JLR began looking at Slovakia as a contingency plan and lets face it these people think years ahead so am sure they must have after the vote to leave then the first thing they would have considered is capacity, 1 line system changed to a 2 line system, bigger press shop and body shop. is the site big enough for expansion.
JLR would have known the answers to these questions 2 yrs ago.

[ShakaHislop]

BBC publishing their story about the ERG's proposals for Northern Ireland with no pro-EU rresponse whatsoever. How many people will read this article before it includes the other point of view FFS.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45495960

[GBF]

Brexit: Do claims for a 'clean break' add up?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45488124

will they stop these <blabla> break up slags.  Soft break up, hard break up, clean break up, dirty break up, The Moyes break up (break up without breaking up), the repaired break up, break up with extra chili sauce, etc.

[Nobby Reserve]

The EU Parliament voting to approve Articles 11 & 13 of the Copyright Directive isn't going to win them many friends (outside of the corporate world, especially those in the media industry).

[PaulF]

will they stop these <blabla> break up slags.  Soft break up, hard break up, clean break up, dirty break up, The Moyes break up (break up without breaking up), the repaired break up, break up with extra chili sauce, etc.

Losing but not losing break ups a la mourinho

[CornerFlag]

@SkyNewsBreak
Government sources have told Sky News EU roaming charges abolished last year in June would return in the event of a 'no-deal' Brexit

I'm in shock, shock I tell you.

[Eeyore]

Cheers Al - it was from an article in the FT and my confusion comes from them saying that all Discovery sport utility vehicles were moving to Slovakia, didn't realise they were not including the Discovery Sport in that.I thought it was already operational, but in fact it will be by the end of 2018.

Yeh I agree Rob the model names are really confusing.

The plant maybe operational this year but that won't mean they will producing cars at anything like the volumes a fully operational plant would produce. Everything will need commissioning plus you then need a series of trials that shows the plant is capable of producing viable vehicles. Even then production is scaled down because lean manufacturing simply can't take place with hundreds of part completed unsaleable 50k vehicles causing a cash drain on the business.

If JLR really wanted to get a plant up and running, as far as workforce goes, they could relocate the workforce from the UK, I'm sure that an attractive enough package would get them to go. I assumed the supply chain and infrastructure was in place, what with VW, Scania, MAN and Volvo, FIAT and General Motors all having plants in Poland and they used to have their own (admittedly shite) cars such as FSO.

They may look to relocate engineers but production staff in the UK earn 2.5 times what they are paying in Slovakia.

As for the infrastructure JLR aren't really comparable with other car manufacturers they build incredibly complex cutting edge vehicles by industry standards. The investment needed to set up an assembly plant and the required supply chain would be mind blowingly expensive. For instance 1 in 4 of the people currently employed by JLR are engineers. You simply can't walk into a new country and create that overnight.

The other thing is that JLR have invested massively in the UK. The plants in Slovakia, China, Brazil and India have been misconstrued as taking jobs out of the UK. That simply isn't the case JLR.

JLR have increased the number of vehicles they build by a huge amount. They have gone from building in the low 200k's to building over 600k cars a year in just over half a decade. Their plan is to join the big boys and build over a million cars a year. Building that number in the UK simply isn't viable.

The other thing is that shifting production abroad comes with inherent problems. It may solve some supply issues but JLR's only engine plant in the western world is in Wolverhampton so shifting production to the EU would either importing engines into the EU or building another engine plant which would cost another billion or two.     

[Eeyore]

Yes, JLR started recruiting and training two years ago for the workforce for the plant that is due to open this month, so they could easily start to train a new batch and even get them on the production line in the current factory. Combine that with skilled staff from the UK and I cannot see a reason why another plant could be up and running in 2021.

The EU would assist car makers all they can, a great way to kick us in the balls by taking all the car plants off us.

Again that isn't really true the ground breaking ceremony for the construction of the plant only started in September 2017, wide scale recruitment didn't start until November 2018 and currently there are hundreds of skilled positions that still haven't been filled. That is without taking into account the majority of the vacancies that that are semi skilled and initially filled by agency staff.

[oldfordie]

Yeh I agree Rob the model names are really confusing.

The plant maybe operational this year but that won't mean they will producing cars at anything like the volumes a fully operational plant would produce. Everything will need commissioning plus you then need a series of trials that shows the plant is capable of producing viable vehicles. Even then production is scaled down because lean manufacturing simply can't take place with hundreds of part completed unsaleable 50k vehicles causing a cash drain on the business.

They may look to relocate engineers but production staff in the UK earn 2.5 times what they are paying in Slovakia.

As for the infrastructure JLR aren't really comparable with other car manufacturers they build incredibly complex cutting edge vehicles by industry standards. The investment needed to set up an assembly plant and the required supply chain would be mind blowingly expensive. For instance 1 in 4 of the people currently employed by JLR are engineers. You simply can't walk into a new country and create that overnight.

The other thing is that JLR have invested massively in the UK. The plants in Slovakia, China, Brazil and India have been misconstrued as taking jobs out of the UK. That simply isn't the case JLR.

JLR have increased the number of vehicles they build by a huge amount. They have gone from building in the low 200k's to building over 600k cars a year in just over half a decade. Their plan is to join the big boys and build over a million cars a year. Building that number in the UK simply isn't viable.

The other thing is that shifting production abroad comes with inherent problems. It may solve some supply issues but JLR's only engine plant in the western world is in Wolverhampton so shifting production to the EU would either importing engines into the EU or building another engine plant which would cost another billion or two.     

It's not really a hypothetical argument though, JLR believe they will have a skilled workforce in Slovakia.
1in 4 workers in Halewood are onsite engineers. if that's true am shocked, it's hard to find a engineer when you need one, I would have thought it was no more than a couple of dozen onsite engineers at most for over 500 production workers.
When you say engineers are you thinking of offsite engineers in development which is not a concern when looking for engineers to maintain Slovakian plant.

[Eeyore]

It's not really a hypothetical argument though, JLR believe they will have a skilled workforce in Slovakia.

Slovakia is a long term project though. They have set up an academy to bring through a skilled workforce. The majority of employees are semi skilled. As you alluded to in an earlier post building cars requires knowledge that is passed on generation to generation.

The Nitra plant was never set up to replace existing jobs, it was part of a plan to massively increase how many cars the company built.

If you look at how the roll out of the plants in Brazil and India happened and it was by sending highly experienced product coaches out to their plants to impart knowledge.

1in 4 workers in Halewood are onsite engineers. if that's true am shocked, it's hard to find a engineer when you need one, I would have thought it was no more than a couple of dozen onsite engineers at most for over 500 production workers.
When you say engineers are you thinking of offsite engineers in development which is not a concern when looking for engineers to maintain Slovakian plant.

The 1 in 4 includes the likes of Gaydon, Whitley and SVO but they are there.

They are there though even in Halewood.

[oldfordie]

Slovakia is a long term project though. They have set up an academy to bring through a skilled workforce. The majority of employees are semi skilled. As you alluded to in an earlier post building cars requires knowledge that is passed on generation to generation.

The Nitra plant was never set up to replace existing jobs, it was part of a plan to massively increase how many cars the company built.

If you look at how the roll out of the plants in Brazil and India happened and it was by sending highly experienced product coaches out to their plants to impart knowledge.

The 1 in 4 includes the likes of Gaydon, Whitley and SVO but they are there.

They are there though even in Halewood.

Yes, ive never looked at the Slovakian plant as a threat to any UK JLR plant and I doubt the lads in Halewood do, my point in a previous post was I doubt they would announce the closure of Halewood and then ask Halewood workers to go out to Slovakia and train up people.
High value cars are built at far lower line speeds for different reasons, all based on quality, low value cars like the Escort were built at over 80-100 per hour, JLR cars 18 rising to 28 so they could up production levels if they chose too and that would do away with the need to open up other plants but that would probably hurt quality.
My point was would JLR actually need to recruit so many engineers if they only need them to keep the lines moving.

[Eeyore]

Yes, ive never looked at the Slovakian plant as a threat to any UK JLR plant and I doubt the lads in Halewood do, my point in a previous post was I doubt they would announce the closure of Halewood and then ask Halewood workers to go out to Slovakia and train up people.

That was my point as well. Slovakia could never be a threat to Halewood because they are building totally different cars on different platforms.

High value cars are built at far lower line speeds for different reasons, all based on quality, low value cars like the Escort were built at over 80-100 per hour, JLR cars 18 rising to 28 so they could up production levels if they chose too and that would do away with the need to open up other plants but that would probably hurt quality.
My point was would JLR actually need to recruit so many engineers if they only need them to keep the lines moving.

It isn't so much the quality as the complexity.

Modern cars require so many more parts than the likes of an Escort. Which brings you back to the number of engineers. With ever changing regulations and JLR wanting to be at the forefront of technology then investing in engineers is a necessary evil. 

As for Halewood the line speed under the current configuration has been as high as 42 cars per hour. The lines could run considerably higher than that. The problem is that Paint and especially the suppliers simply couldn't keep up.

Motor manufacturers are currently taking the piss and are looking at 26 week lead times so they can tailor production to demand. The best indicator is WLTP which is the new emissions testing regulations, VW took the piss out of the old regulations so the EU has brought in far tougher testing regulations.

Since it's introduction VW has had to cut production at most of it's plants and had been reduced to parking up unregistered cars at Berlin's new airport. So there are thousands of cars parked up but dealers are quoting 9-12 month lead times for sub 1.6 engines and won't even give you a build date for cars above 1.6 litres.

[oldfordie]

That was my point as well. Slovakia could never be a threat to Halewood because they are building totally different cars on different platforms.


It isn't so much the quality as the complexity.

Modern cars require so many more parts than the likes of an Escort. Which brings you back to the number of engineers. With ever changing regulations and JLR wanting to be at the forefront of technology then investing in engineers is a necessary evil. 

As for Halewood the line speed under the current configuration has been as high as 42 cars per hour. The lines could run considerably higher than that. The problem is that Paint and especially the suppliers simply couldn't keep up.

Motor manufacturers are currently taking the piss and are looking at 26 week lead times so they can tailor production to demand. The best indicator is WLTP which is the new emissions testing regulations, VW took the piss out of the old regulations so the EU has brought in far tougher testing regulations.

Since it's introduction VW has had to cut production at most of it's plants and had been reduced to parking up unregistered cars at Berlin's new airport. So there are thousands of cars parked up but dealers are quoting 9-12 month lead times for sub 1.6 engines and won't even give you a build date for cars above 1.6 litres.

There are no parts in the paint shop and paint had to run at 28 when I left over 10 yrs ago so they've obviously changed something,  the problem they had running higher line speeds was not paint availability it was quality. a car needs to spend a certain amount of time in a dip to complete the process. so if you up the line speed the car travels more quickly through dip giving it even less to time to complete the process, if final line was running at 42 then paint would be around 50 which is even worse. obviously if you work their now then you know the score but they must have changed something
Maybe Paint shop work sat and sun on regular basis to fill the big holding area from paint to trim.
What have parts got to do with onsite engineers maintaining the production lines.

[thejbs]

While JRMogg doesn't seem to give a shit about the Irish border or the return to terror that a hard border would bring, you'd expect he would at least have the sense to realise that under a fresh new series of troubles he would become a target for dissident terrorists.

I actually can't think of a single MP outside of NI that would have a bigger target on their head if trouble over here flared up again - not even Boris or Pob.

[thejbs]

@SkyNewsBreak
Government sources have told Sky News EU roaming charges abolished last year in June would return in the event of a 'no-deal' Brexit

I'm in shock, shock I tell you.

I said this at the time, but remain really needed to make this point while campaigning. Many of the larger issues of Brexit are so abstract or incomprehensible as to not matter to the ordinary voter. Having no data for two weeks on the Costa Del Sol though, that's a killer.

[rob1966]

Thanks to oldfordie and Al555 for all the added info on the car plants. My arl fella worked for Ford and Triumph and I've cousins who work for JLR so it is an industry that has provided jobs for my family.

With the numbers being quoted of the losses that JLR are looking at and bearing in mind that people in the UK will be looking at job losses, if JLR HAD to move everything abroad and offered attractive packages and guarantees on top security to UK staff, so most of them went out there, how quickly could they shift the whole lot abroad - based on building a factory starting in January? I'm interested as I'd assume Nissan, Toyota, Mini and Honda will all be looking into the feasability.

While JRMogg doesn't seem to give a shit about the Irish border or the return to terror that a hard border would bring, you'd expect he would at least have the sense to realise that under a fresh new series of troubles he would become a target for dissident terrorists.

I actually can't think of a single MP outside of NI that would have a bigger target on their head if trouble over here flared up again - not even Boris or Pob.

Last night I was watching the documentary that was on C4 about Ballymurphy which also touched on Bloody Sunday. Just thinking back to those times and the affects on the lives of the ordinary people of NI and the young soldiers who were sent over there and their families, plus the victims and families of the terror attacks, you just cannot comprehend why anyone in power would even contemplate risking that happening again, never mind actively push for changes that make it likely.
I agree he is painting a big and deserved target on his back. He can lie all he chooses to those of us who live on the mainland, but the Irish know exactly what a border between Eire and NI entails. JRM also knows that we cannot have an open border and then no border checks from Belfast to the rest of the UK, the Isle of Man.

[Zeb]

Grauniad's Jessica Elgot is saying that between 80 and 100 Labour CLPs have now passed a motion for a People's Vote to be debated at conference. See whether it results in anything beyond something similar to what Unite came up with about being "open to the possibility" but the priority was having a general election.

[killer-heels]

Whilst the Beeb have butchered the Daily Politics the one yesterday was good for a laugh. Kemi Badenoch (Tory knobhead) was asked what proposals the ERG have that would address the Irish border question and she said she doesnt know them but she has been told by the ERG its workable and as a result she thinks it would work.

She also said the reason its taken too long to come out with this proposal is because Labour have spent time fighting the outcome of the referendum.

Really do scrape the barrel with some of these MP’s.

[Zeb]

She the one who said that it would take Universal Credit failing 60% of the people on it before it was worth having a look at what was wrong? Knowing this because she worked in IT for a bank and that involved working with people too. Had to wonder what her bank would have done if she'd turned up for a meeting and only 59% of customers couldn't access their bank accounts. "It doesn't count til 60%! Those are the rules!."

[killer-heels]

She the one who said that it would take Universal Credit failing 60% of the people on it before it was worth having a look at what was wrong? Knowing this because she worked in IT for a bank and that involved working with people too. Had to wonder what her bank would have done if she'd turned up for a meeting and only 59% of customers couldn't access their bank accounts. "It doesn't count til 60%! Those are the rules!."

Not sure but she is involved in universal credit reforms/slashing so it would be probable.

[ShakaHislop]

Grauniad's Jessica Elgot is saying that between 80 and 100 Labour CLPs have now passed a motion for a People's Vote to be debated at conference. See whether it results in anything beyond something similar to what Unite came up with about being "open to the possibility" but the priority was having a general election.

I think the TUC ultimately came to a similarly weak position on the idea of another referendum too. The unions have been as shit as the party on Brexit.

[thejbs]

Good news. Theresa May says that roaming charges will not be reintroduced after brexit. And I'm sure that the phone companies will not pass any of their extra brexit-related costs onto the consumer. Nope. Definitely not.

[ShakaHislop]

Raab is in full c*nt mode today.

John Lewis boss rejects Dominic Raab Brexit jibe

The boss of John Lewis has hit out at Brexit secretary Dominic Raab after he said companies should not blame Brexit for poor results.

Sir Charlie Mayfield said he "didn't say Brexit was the reason" for a 99% slide in half-year profits.

"The fact is sterling is weaker, it's more expensive to import goods... so we have to absorb that within our margin," he said.

"I'm not going to get into some sort of ding-dong with the secretary of state."

Dominic Raab told the BBC on Thursday it was a mistake for "business that aren't doing so well to blame Brexit".

"I don't doubt that some of the uncertainty around these negotiations will have an impact on business - that's why we are putting all our energy into getting the good deal we want with our EU friends and partners," he said.

"All I am just gently saying is that it's rather easy for a business to blame Brexit and the politicians rather than take responsibility for their own situation."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45506500

[oldfordie]

Thanks to oldfordie and Al555 for all the added info on the car plants. My arl fella worked for Ford and Triumph and I've cousins who work for JLR so it is an industry that has provided jobs for my family.

With the numbers being quoted of the losses that JLR are looking at and bearing in mind that people in the UK will be looking at job losses, if JLR HAD to move everything abroad and offered attractive packages and guarantees on top security to UK staff, so most of them went out there, how quickly could they shift the whole lot abroad - based on building a factory starting in January? I'm interested as I'd assume Nissan, Toyota, Mini and Honda will all be looking into the feasability.

Last night I was watching the documentary that was on C4 about Ballymurphy which also touched on Bloody Sunday. Just thinking back to those times and the affects on the lives of the ordinary people of NI and the young soldiers who were sent over there and their families, plus the victims and families of the terror attacks, you just cannot comprehend why anyone in power would even contemplate risking that happening again, never mind actively push for changes that make it likely.
I agree he is painting a big and deserved target on his back. He can lie all he chooses to those of us who live on the mainland, but the Irish know exactly what a border between Eire and NI entails. JRM also knows that we cannot have an open border and then no border checks from Belfast to the rest of the UK, the Isle of Man.

I think the main point you made Rob was JLR and others would have started making contingency plans as soon as we voted leave. how will we cope when JIT breaks down being the first consideration, rules of origin problems may get solved with a deal but only FOM, accepting EU regulations etc will give us Frictionless trading. so they will be forced to take action and they have announced relocating is under serious consideration, where they relocate too is irrelevant really but it will be inside the EU.
The effects of leaving the EU on car plants is unprecedented so ive no idea what they will do short term, the effects will hit immediately with a no deal, maybe negotiations with the unions to minimize the effect of long term stoppages, if they cant run their lines 24 hrs a day then they don't need a workforce to work 24 hrs a day. so volume will drop. this threatens the companies viability, if they can't solve rules of origin problems then I assume they won't be able to export into the EU, IMO unions may have to agree to big changes to keep the company operating as efficiently and competitively as possible.
Government replies to Road haulage concerns was beyond belief, Pathetic as it showed they have absolutely no answers to the problems leaving the SM+CU will bring which is why am so opposed to just accepting a Canadian deal. a Canadian deal will not solve Car manufactures problems. the same applies to many companies who rely on frictionless trading etc.
Long term, if we accept a Canadian deal then they will be forced to take action, a Canadian deal will not solve frictionless trading etc. there are dozens of Car plants inside the EU so it would be a mistake to think they are irreplaceable, JLR+Nissan have spent a fortune investing in the UK so they obviously believed the UK was a good investment, that all changed the day we voted leave.

[Zeb]

I think the TUC ultimately came to a similarly weak position on the idea of another referendum too. The unions have been as shit as the party on Brexit.

Yeah, TUC's is hampered by how unlikely the Tories will be to call an election.

If the government cannot conclude a Withdrawal Agreement, or if what it negotiates does not secure Parliament’s support, or if the deal would be bad for workers’ jobs, rights and livelihoods, we demand an immediate general election to allow parties to put their plans for Brexit to the voters, and the extension of the Article 50 process to avoid crashing out of the EU with no deal and allow time for the a post-election negotiation of a deal that works for working people.

TUC

It's all posturing until someone figures out how they're going to add a workable third option to what May will take to Parliament. Only one I can see is inserting a vote to instruct the government to withdraw Article 50 (and I'm open to being told that's impossible on constitutional grounds). Which obviously won't succeed without a major shift from one of the two big parties.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Another referendum - on the terms of the deal 

How on earth are the public, who completely messed up on the original vote meant to get it correct on an even more complex vote?

[ShakaHislop]

Good news. Theresa May says that roaming charges will not be reintroduced after brexit. And I'm sure that the phone companies will not pass any of their extra brexit-related costs onto the consumer. Nope. Definitely not.

A blog about that. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-45509370

UK operators will undoubtedly be under great pressure from the government to just absorb any higher costs from roaming customers.

But they are also being told to find the money to invest in new 5G networks. So expect them to be among the fiercest opponents of a "no deal" Brexit.

This is a good point too

[ShakaHislop]

Surely the final nail in the coffin of the delusion that Labour are in favour of a soft Brexit, let alone (long-game) Remain?

Diane Abbott unveils Labour's new immigration policy

A Labour government would bring in a simplified visa system for foreign workers with "bona fide skills", Diane Abbott has said.

The shadow home secretary said the party would also scrap the government's "bogus" net migration target.

She set out plans for a "flexible work visa" to end the "idiocy" of medical staff not being able to take up jobs.

Migrants from outside the EU should be treated with the same "fairness" as EU migrants after Brexit, she added.

Under the current system, non-EU migrants are rated on whether their skills are needed by the UK economy, with occupations ranked in tiers drawn up by the Migration Advisory Committee.

Under Labour's plans "anyone with specified bona fide skills can come here to work," Diane Abbott said in a speech.

A "new, integrated work visa" would "allow a future Labour government to "offer rights of work and residency and accelerated citizenship to a range of professions, workers and those creating employment who want to come here," she added.

"It will be available to all those we need to come here, whether it is doctors, or scientists, or care workers.

"This will apply across a range of jobs, skills and professions. People coming to take up specific job offers, where it can be shown that those jobs cannot be filled by workers already resident here, will be able to come here.

"We will use intelligence from the Migration Advisory Council, from trades unions, from employers - private and public - and from devolved governments and local and regional elected bodies to identify needs and to meet them."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45510623

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Surely the final nail in the coffin of the delusion that Labour are in favour of a soft Brexit, let alone (long-game) Remain?

Diane Abbott unveils Labour's new immigration policy

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45510623

I feel so much better now that the UKs foremost savant has spoken.

[ShakaHislop]

With this new policy, Labour's own Brexit proposals wouldn't pass their bloody "six tests". Farcicial.

[Nobby Reserve]

It's all posturing until someone figures out how they're going to add a workable third option to what May will take to Parliament. Only one I can see is inserting a vote to instruct the government to withdraw Article 50 (and I'm open to being told that's impossible on constitutional grounds). Which obviously won't succeed without a major shift from one of the two big parties.

The EU position is that if the UK wants any deal, it will have to accept ECJ jurisdiction over legislation covering goods and services. The ERG and other hardline Brexiteers in the Tory Party are driving the process with a core red line of avoiding having any kind of ECJ jurisdiction over services, as that would open the door for the EU's ATAD to be enforced. That's why May's Chequers plan made the concession of ECJ jurisdiction over goods.

Thankfully, the EU has so far stuck rigidly to its guns in refusing to countenance a deal without ECJ jurisdiction over services, as it knows the eye-boggling levels of money laundering that goes on via London into the BOTs and Crown Dependencies, shielded from tax authority view by the veil of secrecy deployed by the BOTs and CD's.

I just hope the EU doesn't bottle it, and maintains its stance.

But those groups opposed to the industrial scale use of BOTs and CDs to dodge their tax responsibilities and hide beneficial ownership should have been shouting about this for the past two years, to build a narrative that a small minority of the very wealthy, the hedge fund shysters, and the other parasitic scum in the financial services industry who employed by them, are driving Brexit.

So when the Brexit shit hits the fan hard and the UK economy tanks, anger is turned on these wankers.