Topic: Winning Title #19*

[Perham]

So we would increase the gap on them by 3 points.

Exactly. So what point are you trying to make?

[ToneLa]

if we get 3 they get none so 3 more + them not getting 3 = six pointer

[RobbieRedman]

Alisson - Trent Lovren Van Dijk Robertson - Fabinho Henderson Wijnaldum - Mane Firmino Salah

nailed on i'd say

[Legoland]

Alisson - Trent Lovren Van Dijk Robertson - Fabinho Henderson Wijnaldum - Mane Firmino Salah

nailed on i'd say

Pretty much.

[Barneylfc∗]

We can win every week but can't guarantee them a loss every week

I hope you understand that the league is won on relatives and not on absolutes. We can get a 100 points and it would mean fuck all if City get a 101.

Similarly, it would mean fuck all if we beat them twice but drop points elsewhere, just as we did last season.
 

[Legoland]

Similarly, it would mean fuck all if we beat them twice but drop points elsewhere, just as we did last season.
 

I've done the best I can to demonstrate my case that this is a six pointer. If you can't see why it is, I can't change your opinion.

[Barneylfc∗]

I've done the best I can to demonstrate my case that this is a six pointer. If you can't see why it is, I can't change your opinion.

Fair enough. It's an important game. But it still only gets us 3 points if we win.  If we lose, it isn't the end of the world.

[Alan_X]

It is the case. We'll kick off on Sunday with 31 points. Should we win, we'll have 34 points.

...and they'll have 25. A nine point gap.

 And if they win?  We'll have 31 and they'll have 28. A three point gap.

We have to play them twice. It makes a difference that we are playing them because of the impact if we lose. On every other matchday we can both win, draw or lose. When it's head to head a win for one is automatically a loss for the other.

It's not that hard to understand and people have been aware of it for as long as I can remember. I'm amazed that you've never heard of a 'six-pointer' or understood what it means...

[harleydanger]

...and they'll have 25. A nine point gap.

 And if they win?  We'll have 31 and they'll have 28. A three point gap.

We have to play them twice. It makes a difference that we are playing them because of the impact if we lose. On every other matchday we can both win, draw or lose. When it's head to head a win for one is automatically a loss for the other.

It's not that hard to understand and people have been aware of it for as long as I can remember. I'm amazed that you've never heard of a 'six-pointer' or understood what it means...

bUt iT”s oLnY tHrEe pOiNtS

[hesbighesred]

Similarly, it would mean fuck all if we beat them twice but drop points elsewhere, just as we did last season.
 

Eh? You mean past season where we won more points than them against everyone else in the league, just as we have so far this season? I mean even if I agreed with your point mathematically you've picked an odd way to frame it, and given what happened last season it's abundantly obvious why people are taking it so seriously. And give Fabinho's rest against Villa you've got to assume that the manager is among those who sees more than just the usual 3 points in this match.

[Perham]

Fair enough. It's an important game. But it still only gets us 3 points if we win.  If we lose, it isn't the end of the world.

Are you even listening to what people are arguing?

[mikeb58]

Quite simply, twice a season we can inflict a 6 point 'swing' on City with a win. Sunday is the first chance to do it.

We can't influence their other 36 games, so this game is vital and in every aspect a '6 pointer'

[Korbflechter]

Similarly, it would mean fuck all if we beat them twice but drop points elsewhere, just as we did last season.
 

Yes sir, but it would mean we could drop at least 5 points in all other games, whereas we would have to make up 6 if they beat us twice.

[farawayred]

Can we just fuck Abu Dhabi FC this weekend and later argue if it was a six-pointer or just a three points? By then I may have a solid opinion... 

[Red Beret]

Like I said, we only have two league games a season where we can directly effect one another.  Beat them and they're relying on other teams to whittle down a 9 point lead - but if they can't beat us, who the fuck can?

Beating them sends a powerful message to the rest of the league, and it's vital we do.  I'd rather have a 9 point lead than a 3 point one.  Losing to these oil grubbing, blood soaked plastics at Anfield is not a fucking option.

[bornandbRED]

Predict that we will hammer those plastic c*nts on Sunday and mega mind Pep will be like a deer in the headlights on the touchline.

We were far too nice last year. Maybe we felt bad after we smashed them out of the CL & bottle bus gate.  The snarl from the stands will be incredible this time around.

[Sinyoro]

Before kick-off, neither team has gained nor lost any points to each other ( +/- 0)

If Liverpool wins they have gained 3 points (+3); City have lost 3 points (-3).  On any axis- y or x, that is a 6 point swing. I guess that is where the idea of a six pointer comes from.

[demain]

Can we just fuck Abu Dhabi FC this weekend and later argue if it was a six-pointer or just a three points? By then I may have a solid opinion... 

'If you’re in the penalty area and aren’t quite sure what to do with the ball, stick it in the net and we’ll discuss your options afterwards!'

[PaulF]

If we beat them at the weekend, and Chelsea win, do Chelsea become serious contenders?

[Malaysian Kopite]

If we beat them at the weekend, and Chelsea win, do Chelsea become serious contenders?

We had this discussion several times last season with Spurs. Just like Spurs then I don’t think Chelsea will end up anywhere near us or City

[deano2727]

If we beat them at the weekend, and Chelsea win, do Chelsea become serious contenders?

No. Even if they beat City in the following game, they would still fall well short at the end of the season. Too inexperienced for a title charge at this stage. They are definitely the best of the rest though.

[BTGH]

No. Even if they beat City in the following game, they would still fall well short at the end of the season. Too inexperienced for a title charge at this stage. They are definitely the best of the rest though.

thinking along similar lines.  Chelsea is playing with many youngsters.  Currently they are on a high because of the chances they have been given but invariably they will hit a "wall" come the second half of the season, when the flow of their game will not be there, when goals are not forthcoming and wins becomes draws or losses.

[stevied]

Alisson - Trent Lovren Van Dijk Robertson - Fabinho Henderson Wijnaldum - Mane Firmino Salah

nailed on i'd say

If Hendo shakes off the bug, if he doesnt get the Ox in he likes to pop one in from 20+ yds against Ederson

[bird_lfc]

Quite easy to forget how good this team is.

If we avoid defeat, that works out as 1  defeat in our past 50 league games . FIFTY.

Fucking mental. These boys deserve a title.

[Yesitsanextender]

huge huge game...IF we beat them this sunday then as easier post said - who can then beat us? that mindset will go into every team and that can effect confidence in our other opponents.
as much as i think Ox is playing well at the moment he did mention himself last night that he still needs to improve his defending/tracking back etc something hendo deos better, but are we also giving away potential goals by not starting Ox this sunday and bringing Henderson on later on? we have gini and fabinho in the middle to mop up, having ox there too can give city another attacking headache.

Also Salah really needs to have an end product to all the fancy footwork hes been doing lately....it looks great but its totally worthless without the goal/assist to go with it...

[redk84]

Quite easy to forget how good this team is.

If we avoid defeat, that works out as 1  defeat in our past 50 league games . FIFTY.

Fucking mental. These boys deserve a title.

They win this title and they deserve every bit of the legendary status that will be thrown on them

Luckily we are not moving from top spot all season. My gut told me so.

I think we need the pre match thread open immediately

[Gray Hamster]

Before kick-off, neither team has gained nor lost any points to each other ( +/- 0)

If Liverpool wins they have gained 3 points (+3); City have lost 3 points (-3).  On any axis- y or x, that is a 6 point swing. I guess that is where the idea of a six pointer comes from.

What an earth are you on about?  "City have lost 3 points (-3)"  ?  You need to have or win something to lose it. They never had the 3 points to start with!  The 6 pointer comment had always loosely been based on the assumption that teams at the top of a league very consistently pick up 3 points nearly all of the time, so when they play each other, it realizes itself as a 6 point swing.   This is why decent league analysts always take the mick out of idiot pundits who talk about 6 pointers at bottom of the league matches. Those teams were never expected to take 3 points, so a win against a rival bottom dweller, is definitely not a 6 point swing but a welcome and unusual 3 points!

[reddebs]

Neck on the line time, if we win on Sunday we'll be 12/15 points ahead by the turn of the year.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[Roger Federer]

Before kick-off, neither team has gained nor lost any points to each other ( +/- 0)

If Liverpool wins they have gained 3 points (+3); City have lost 3 points (-3).  On any axis- y or x, that is a 6 point swing. I guess that is where the idea of a six pointer comes from.

They don't lose 3 points with a loss.

I assume the six pointer comes from the difference between the gap depending on if we win or lose. The difference between City and us should we win is 9 points, and if we lose it goes down to 3points. Of course, this would happen on any other week as well, if we lose and they win, but its only in this and the reverse fixture that we both have a direct influence on the others result, hence a six pointer.

[Sharado]

This thread is the RAWK equivalent of the legendary arsenal twitter thread 'he's 28 till he's 29 and that's a fact'.

[slimbo]

If City lose, they would basically have to win two games over us (6pts) to put them in the position they would have been if they'd one the game. Only happens when we play a direct rival.

[Gray Hamster]

This thread is the RAWK equivalent of the legendary arsenal twitter thread 'he's 28 till he's 29 and that's a fact'.

I giggled a bit too loud at this but you're right :-)

[Ocean Red]

If City lose, they would basically have to win two games over us (6pts) to put them in the position they would have been if they'd one the game. Only happens when we play a direct rival.

exactly, i am trying to think this is just another game to calm the nerves. But its not, its a massive game.

[number 168]

Also Salah really needs to have an end product to all the fancy footwork hes been doing lately....it looks great but its totally worthless without the goal/assist to go with it...

Harsh that given he has 8 goals and 5 assists in the PL and CL so far. It's his 'fancy footwork' that defenders worry about; I doubt any defender looks at Salah and thinks "worthless".

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Also Salah really needs to have an end product to all the fancy footwork hes been doing lately....it looks great but its totally worthless without the goal/assist to go with it...

Harsh that given he has 8 goals and 5 assists in the PL and CL so far. It's his 'fancy footwork' that defenders worry about; I doubt any defender looks at Salah and thinks "worthless".

He had an assist last night or did you miss that?  Granted he didn't have anything against Villa, he did score against Tottenham, and then scored prior to that and assisted against Genk. So it's not like he hasn't done anything recently

[PoetryInMotion]

What an earth are you on about?  "City have lost 3 points (-3)"  ?  You need to have or win something to lose it. They never had the 3 points to start with!  The 6 pointer comment had always loosely been based on the assumption that teams at the top of a league very consistently pick up 3 points nearly all of the time, so when they play each other, it realizes itself as a 6 point swing.   This is why decent league analysts always take the mick out of idiot pundits who talk about 6 pointers at bottom of the league matches. Those teams were never expected to take 3 points, so a win against a rival bottom dweller, is definitely not a 6 point swing but a welcome and unusual 3 points!

Completely agree with what you're saying as a big picture, but I don't understand the question you have for the post you replied to. The poster is of course talking about a game between the 'teams at the top of a league', so it is indeed a 6 pointer as he/she explained?

[JackWard33]

They don't lose 3 points with a loss.

Well they should.

[JerseyKloppite]

The whole "6 pointer" question is an interesting one. I'd love to convince myself it was "just another match" but I think you're kidding yourself if you take this view. In days gone by when 85 points might win you a title it's one thing, but when City have run up 198 points in two title winning years then any dropped points for them are gold dust and so this game is simply more important.

Also, putting my lunchbreak to good use, I had a look at our 4 significant challenges for the title since 1990 with a view to seeing just how important the games v our rivals were.

In 2002 we took just one point out of 6 from Arsenal (1-2 loss at home, 1-1 draw away). They finished 7 points ahead of us. If we'd have won both games, we'd have won the league by two points.

In 2009 we took six out of 6 from Man Utd (2-1 at home and 4-1 win away). They finished 4 points ahead of us. Ultimately we couldn't have taken any more points off them but obviously if we'd have dropped points we'd have finished further off the pace. In particular, if it wasn't for our 4-1 win at Old Trafford I don't think we'd have really given ourselves a chance in the final months of the season.

In 2014 we took three out of 6 from Man City (1-2 away and 3-2 at home). They finished 2 points ahead of us. If we'd have won or drawn our away game, we'd have won the league (by four or one points respectively).

Last year we took one out of 6 from Man City (0-0 at home and 1-2 away). They finished 1 point ahead of us. If we've have draw/won away or beaten them at home, we've have won the league.

Obviously there's a whole lot more to the various seasons above, but to suggest that these games aren't "six pointers" in that sense is I think a little wayward, and with this current City team I think a good result on Sunday is all the more significant.

[Korbflechter]

We beat them twice, they have to make up 12 points in the remaining 25 games. They beat us twice, we don't even have any cushion anymore. Talk about a six point swing. But what is definitely clear is that they have to at least match us over the remaining 25 games AND win both matchups. That's the only way they have it in their own hands. So pretty good position to be in for us.

[PaulKS]

Not arsed what the result is on Sunday, as long as we dont lose.