Topic: Roberto Firmino

[Scottymuser]

Absolutely no chance he gets anything like that wage. If he does get a deal, it'll probably be a pretty low basic wage with good incentives for goals/assists. Given his age and downturn in performance, there won't be big clubs queuing up to offer him a bumper deal. The club have all the power here and he wants to stay.

Why would he take a large pay cut just to stay with us?  He is currently on 180k before incentives - and with him being available for free, there are plenty of clubs who could justify spending close to 150k a week on a short term deal for him, hoping at a smaller club/slower league (if moving abroad, e.g. back to Germany) he could recover and play at a decent level for 2-3 years - as they wouldn't need to spend a dime on a transfer fee.  We see it all the time with free transfers - like when we got Milner and made him our best paid player overnight on 140k back in 2015 as we didn't need to spend anything on a transfer fee. 

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Fuck knows,why not ask the hundreds that have done exactly that over the years.

I just think that he's really happy where he is and understands what his roll is going forward.

[afc tukrish]

Fuck knows,why not ask the hundreds that have done exactly that over the years.

I just think that he's really happy where he is and understands what his roll is going forward.

Other players play roles.

Bobby plays rolls...

[CraigDS]

Why would he take a large pay cut just to stay with us?  He is currently on 180k before incentives - and with him being available for free, there are plenty of clubs who could justify spending close to 150k a week on a short term deal for him, hoping at a smaller club/slower league (if moving abroad, e.g. back to Germany) he could recover and play at a decent level for 2-3 years - as they wouldn't need to spend a dime on a transfer fee.  We see it all the time with free transfers - like when we got Milner and made him our best paid player overnight on 140k back in 2015 as we didn't need to spend anything on a transfer fee.

What foreign club is signing him on £150k a week? Genuinely.

Plus he's made his fortune, he may just feel that he wants to spend a few more years (still earning a fortune, I'll add) in an area he loves, at a club he loves, under a manager he loves.

[MD1990]

A new deal would really hammer home the sentimental issue with Klopp.

Firmino is a legend & done well this season. But his legs are going & injuries are quite frequent now as well.
We need a reduction in age in the squad

[Scottymuser]

What foreign club is signing him on £150k a week? Genuinely.

Plus he's made his fortune, he may just feel that he wants to spend a few more years (still earning a fortune, I'll add) in an area he loves, at a club he loves, under a manager he loves.

Leipzig - Werner is only on loan there, and hasn't been great for them, so Bobby could be a good one for them (and they have the money).  Or AC - given they have Giroud, they are clearly ok with an older ex-Prem player, and Origi (who they gave 100 grand a week to, lol) from a similar situation

[HeartAndSoul]

Some minor injury he had back in December. Almost in February and still no sign of him

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Other players play roles.

Bobby plays rolls...

 

[WhereAngelsPlay]

A new deal would really hammer home the sentimental issue with Klopp.

Firmino is a legend & done well this season. But his legs are going & injuries are quite frequent now as well.
We need a reduction in age in the squad

Sorry but that's bollocks,out of all the older players (Virg and Ali aside),he is one that we absolutely should've wanted to strike a deal with.

[CraigDS]

Leipzig - Werner is only on loan there, and hasn't been great for them, so Bobby could be a good one for them (and they have the money).  Or AC - given they have Giroud, they are clearly ok with an older ex-Prem player, and Origi (who they gave 100 grand a week to, lol) from a similar situation

Do Leipzig have anyone on anywhere close to £150k a week other than Werner? AC were stupid enough to make Origi one of their highest paid, but even he is "only" on £90k a week - you think they'll give £60k more to Bobby?

[BOBSCOUSE]

Other players play roles.

Bobby plays rolls...

Bobby rocks his roles...

He Rocks and Rolls...

He's a Heavy Metal badass footballah!

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Do Leipzig have anyone on anywhere close to £150k a week other than Werner? AC were stupid enough to make Origi one of their highest paid, but even he is "only" on £90k a week - you think they'll give £60k more to Bobby?

No but his signing on bonus would've bumped it up.

I'm buzzing that he's staying but I bet all the young lads right down to the kiddies are buzzing more.

[Haggis36]

Sorry but that's bollocks,out of all the older players (Virg and Ali aside),he is one that we absolutely should've wanted to strike a deal with.

Maybe so, but that's not a reason to throw good money after bad. We've made a series of bizarre contractual decisions in the past few years but we should be looking to break the cycle, not perpetuate it. Particularly since these things do not exist in a vacuum. The antidote to renewing too many old players is not to.. renew even more old players.

Ultimately:
- We have an enormous wage bill that does not remotely correlate with our level on the pitch, and which is directly impacting upon our ability to refresh the squad
- We have one of the oldest, slowest and least athletic squads in the league
- We have already renewed a large number of players in the same age bracket who are past their best (which is not to say they are *finished*, but they are demonstrably below their peak level), for the most part on enormous wages relative to their current on-pitch level (Salah, Henderson, Fabinho, VVD)
- We have a pretty bloated squad full of injury-prone players (some of these will leave soon)

Bobby is a bonafide legend. But he's also 31, has lost the vast majority of any athleticism he once had (meaning he struggles to press anywhere near as effectively as he used to), is one of our highest paid players, has declined significantly from his peak, and has started to pick up a shitload of injuries. 35 games missed (and counting) since the start of last season - with at least 5 different injuries - if you were keeping tally by the way. Keita has a better injury record over the last 18 months and he missed the entire first half of this season... Keeping injury prone players around for squad depth is a false economy, because they're never actually available when you need them. Like now, for instance.

He basically ticks every negative box on the "caution re: renewing players over 30" checklist. Does he still have a lot to offer the right team? Totally. If we kept him, would he contribute next season? I'm sure he would, to some extent. Does that mean it makes sense, financially or from a squad perspective? God no.

[4pool]

Maybe so, but that's not a reason to throw good money after bad. We've made a series of bizarre contractual decisions in the past few years but we should be looking to break the cycle, not perpetuate it. Particularly since these things do not exist in a vacuum. The antidote to renewing too many old players is not to.. renew even more old players.

Ultimately:
- We have an enormous wage bill that does not remotely correlate with our level on the pitch, and which is directly impacting upon our ability to refresh the squad
- We have one of the oldest, slowest and least athletic squads in the league
- We have already renewed a large number of players in the same age bracket who are past their best (which is not to say they are *finished*, but they are demonstrably below their peak level), for the most part on enormous wages relative to their current on-pitch level (Salah, Henderson, Fabinho, VVD)
- We have a pretty bloated squad full of injury-prone players (some of these will leave soon)

Bobby is a bonafide legend. But he's also 31, has lost the vast majority of any athleticism he once had (meaning he struggles to press anywhere near as effectively as he used to), is one of our highest paid players, has declined significantly from his peak, and has started to pick up a shitload of injuries. 35 games missed (and counting) since the start of last season - with at least 5 different injuries - if you were keeping tally by the way. Keita has a better injury record over the last 18 months and he missed the entire first half of this season... Keeping injury prone players around for squad depth is a false economy, because they're never actually available when you need them. Like now, for instance.

He basically ticks every negative box on the "caution re: renewing players over 30" checklist. Does he still have a lot to offer the right team? Totally. If we kept him, would he contribute next season? I'm sure he would, to some extent. Does that mean it makes sense, financially or from a squad perspective? God no.

I bet that if you laid that all out to Jurgen he'd have that big German laugh of his.

[CraigDS]

No but his signing on bonus would've bumped it up.

You'd assume Bobby would also demand a signing on bonus too, no? So would equally bump his wage even more.

[Haggis36]

I bet that if you laid that all out to Jurgen he'd have that big German laugh of his.

Maybe. But that's precisely why managers shouldn't have total control in situations like these. It needs someone to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. I've no doubt if you ask Jurgen a binary question of "would you like to have Bobby in the squad or not next season" the answer would obviously be yes. Like I'm sure it was with Henderson. Doesn't mean it was a good use of our finite resources though. Or that he always gets it right.

[Ghost Town]

Maybe so, but that's not a reason to throw good money after bad. We've made a series of bizarre contractual decisions in the past few years but we should be looking to break the cycle, not perpetuate it. Particularly since these things do not exist in a vacuum. The antidote to renewing too many old players is not to.. renew even more old players.

Ultimately:
- We have an enormous wage bill that does not remotely correlate with our level on the pitch, and which is directly impacting upon our ability to refresh the squad
- We have one of the oldest, slowest and least athletic squads in the league
- We have already renewed a large number of players in the same age bracket who are past their best (which is not to say they are *finished*, but they are demonstrably below their peak level), for the most part on enormous wages relative to their current on-pitch level (Salah, Henderson, Fabinho, VVD)
- We have a pretty bloated squad full of injury-prone players (some of these will leave soon)

Bobby is a bonafide legend. But he's also 31, has lost the vast majority of any athleticism he once had (meaning he struggles to press anywhere near as effectively as he used to), is one of our highest paid players, has declined significantly from his peak, and has started to pick up a shitload of injuries. 35 games missed (and counting) since the start of last season - with at least 5 different injuries - if you were keeping tally by the way. Keita has a better injury record over the last 18 months and he missed the entire first half of this season... Keeping injury prone players around for squad depth is a false economy, because they're never actually available when you need them. Like now, for instance.

He basically ticks every negative box on the "caution re: renewing players over 30" checklist. Does he still have a lot to offer the right team? Totally. If we kept him, would he contribute next season? I'm sure he would, to some extent. Does that mean it makes sense, financially or from a squad perspective? God no.

Lol

Things you don't like or, more likely, do not understand, do not equal "bizarre decisions"

And while Klopp may or may not always get things right neither you, nor anyone else here, saying he's 'wrong' makes it true

[Haggis36]

Lol

Things you don't like or, more likely, do not understand, do not equal "bizarre decisions"

And while Klopp may or may not always get things right neither you, nor anyone else here, saying he's 'wrong' makes it true

Cool. Does our worst start to a league campaign in 7 years and languishing in midtable, in no small part due to choices made in the summer regarding recruitment and retention, equal "bizarre decisions"? Or should we all just cease any discussion and close the forum because there's no point, cos even if Klopp can get things wrong you're not allowed to SAY he sometimes gets things wrong, and our players are all amazing, and there is no possible way to explain how an old squad can't run or sprint or press like it used to.

[4pool]

Maybe. But that's precisely why managers shouldn't have total control in situations like these. It needs someone to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. I've no doubt if you ask Jurgen a binary question of "would you like to have Bobby in the squad or not next season" the answer would obviously be yes. Like I'm sure it was with Henderson. Doesn't mean it was a good use of our finite resources though. Or that he always gets it right.

Managers shouldn't have total control, eh.

Owners should back the manager is no. 1 mantra.

Those two points of view can't co-exist.


However, after 7 seasons of Jurgen if you can't trust the manager, a manager of 1,000 matches, a manager who has an idea of what a player can and can't contribute as a youngster or senior member of the squad...

[Ghost Town]

Cool. Does our worst start to a league campaign in 7 years and languishing in midtable, in no small part due to choices made in the summer regarding recruitment and retention, equal "bizarre decisions"? Or should we all just cease any discussion and close the forum because there's no point, cos even if Klopp can get things wrong you're not allowed to SAY he sometimes gets things wrong, and our players are all amazing, and there is no possible way to explain how an old squad can't run or sprint or press like it used to.

Heh heh it's like whinger Bingo!

House!!

Though you forgot to call me a 'Top Red'

[Haggis36]

Managers shouldn't have total control, eh.

Owners should back the manager is no. 1 mantra.

Those two points of view can't co-exist.


However, after 7 seasons of Jurgen if you can't trust the manager, a manager of 1,000 matches, a manager who has an idea of what a player can and can't contribute as a youngster or senior member of the squad...

I mean obviously they can, as they are not mutually exclusive. Point me to the list of clubs where the manager has complete and absolute control over all sporting and financial decisions.

Boehly has backed Potter a fair bit, but you'll not convince me Potter has an ounce of control. On the flipside, I daresay even City's owners say no to Pep, from time to time.

[Haggis36]

Heh heh it's like whinger Bingo!

House!!

Though you forgot to call me a 'Top Red'

There's a few things I could call you, but "Top Red" wasn't at the top of my list I confess. Not that I've ever used that term in my life, but go off I guess. Hiding behind the "don't you think Klopp knows better!!!!" defence and chucking in emojis to be "cute" rather than any attempt to debate the points, is it? Ah, a tale as old time.

[4pool]

I mean obviously they can, as they are not mutually exclusive. Point me to the list of clubs where the manager has complete and absolute control over all sporting and financial decisions.

Boehly has backed Potter a fair bit, but you'll not convince me Potter has an ounce of control. On the flipside, I daresay even City's owners say no to Pep, from time to time.

Look bright spark...at what point should the owners TELL the manager what to do with existing players and still be "backing the manager".

I can imagine the outrage if John Henry told Jurgen what to do with players and Jurgen mentions it in some press conference. God, twitter would go into meltdown.

Who is running the team then? John Henry or Jurgen?

[Haggis36]

Look bright spark...at what point should the owners TELL the manager what to do with existing players and still be "backing the manager".

I can imagine the outrage if John Henry told Jurgen what to do with players and Jurgen mentions it in some press conference. God, twitter would go into meltdown.

Who is running the team then? John Henry or Jurgen?

Where did I say John Henry should be telling Klopp what to do? I was actually referring to a sporting director or similar structure. Pretty much every successful organisation, in any industry, makes their decisions by way of committees of knowledgeable people who bring different points of view, rather than having a model where a single person (be it an owner or manager) who makes all the decisions unilaterally. Football clubs included.

[4pool]

Where did I say John Henry should be telling Klopp what to do? I was actually referring to a sporting director or similar structure. Pretty much every successful organisation, in any industry, makes their decisions by way of committees of knowledgeable people who bring different points of view, rather than having a model where a single person (be it an owner or manager) who makes all the decisions unilaterally. Football clubs included.

A sporting director is there to help recruit new players based on the managers desires.

A sporting director doesn't sit there and TELL the manager Bobby is getting old get rid. At that point the sporting director is infringing on the managers expertise and job area of responsibility. And the manager would tell the sporting director to do one.

[Haggis36]

A sporting director is there to help recruit new players based on the managers desires.

A sporting director doesn't sit there and TELL the manager Bobby is getting old get rid. At that point the sporting director is infringing on the managers expertise and job area of responsibility. And the manager would tell the sporting director to do one.

Well that ultimately depends doesn't it, at some clubs that's exactly what a sporting director might do, at others maybe not. We're getting bogged down in the terminology "sports director" as if that position means the same thing at every club or always has the same defined role.

At the end of the day, there should be ideally people (plural) in senior positions at all football clubs who can say no to, or challenge the opinion of a manager. Not on team selections, or tactics, no. But on transfers and contracts? Absolutely. Most successful clubs have this, because individuals and individual decisions are not infallible, and it's a way to try and mitigate any individual biases (on the part of anyone in that decision making group, not only the manager) as well as ensure there is some semblance of continuity if a manager were to leave. No point in giving a manager total control for them to bring in all their favourite players, and then they get sacked, and the next manager doesn't want half of them? I mean I'm not suggesting that's an issue we have to consider, and if I had to pick any manager in the world to have total control over recruitment and contract decisions Klopp would be pretty near the top of the list, but it's not how things work (nor should they).

Call it a committee, sporting director, it's all the same idea. I promise you, whilst Klopp may have the final say, he has never had (and has previously expressed that he has no desire for) complete and unopposed control of all transfers and spending.

[4pool]

Well that ultimately depends doesn't it, at some clubs that's exactly what a sporting director might do, at others maybe not. We're getting bogged down in the terminology "sports director" as if that position means the same thing at every club or always has the same defined role.

At the end of the day, there should be ideally people (plural) in senior positions at all football clubs who can say no to, or challenge the opinion of a manager. Not on team selections, or tactics, no. But on transfers and contracts? Absolutely. Most successful clubs have this, because individuals and individual decisions are not infallible, and it's a way to try and mitigate any individual biases (on the part of anyone in that decision making group, not only the manager) as well as ensure there is some semblance of continuity if a manager were to leave. No point in giving a manager total control for them to bring in all their favourite players, and then they get sacked, and the next manager doesn't want half of them? I mean I'm not suggesting that's an issue we have to consider, and if I had to pick any manager in the world to have total control over recruitment and contract decisions Klopp would be pretty near the top of the list, but it's not how things work (nor should they).

Call it a committee, sporting director, it's all the same idea. I promise you, whilst Klopp may have the final say, he has never had (and has previously expressed that he has no desire for) complete and unopposed control of all transfers and spending.

Your problem is you don't rate Bobby anymore and are trying to use every justification to get your way.

Jurgen doesn't make decisions in isolation. He doesn't have to justify them to you. Nor does he have to justify them to anyone else.

He has Pep, Peter, and the entire coaching staff to advise him. They are there every training session and every match. They are Jurgens eyes and brain as he says.

Jurgen doesn't need someone who isn't there every day analyzing every training session and match to tell him what to do with existing players such as a sporting director or owner.

What you are saying is that the entire staff is blind and stupid because they can't see Bobby doesn't cut it anymore. In spite of all the information and data the coaching staff has.

Which is why Jurgen would give you the big German laugh.

[Haggis36]

Your problem is you don't rate Bobby anymore and are trying to use every justification to get your way.

Jurgen doesn't make decisions in isolation. He doesn't have to justify them to you. Nor does he have to justify them to anyone else.

He has Pep, Peter, and the entire coaching staff to advise him. They are there every training session and every match. They are Jurgens eyes and brain as he says.

Jurgen doesn't need someone who isn't there every day analyzing every training session and match to tell him what to do with existing players such as a sporting director or owner.

What you are saying is that the entire staff is blind and stupid because they can't see Bobby doesn't cut it anymore. In spite of all the information and data the coaching staff has.

Which is why Jurgen would give you the big German laugh.

Not sure I said (or remotely implied) that "the entire staff is blind and stupid" just because I disagree with a decision. Also, was this the same information and data we used when handing out Fabinho's lengthy contract extension promptly before his legs fell off? We're talking about multi-million pound, multi-year financial commitments here, and I think you are misunderstanding the nature of how top level football operations work if you think these types of things are (or should be) solely down to the manager (which I see you've now extended to include the coaching team, so a bit like a committee....?).

Look we can disagree - that's fine. I love Bobby but I think we'd be folly to extend him, and I'm allowed to have that opinion, and I've backed up why I have that opinion pretty respectfully and with thought-out reasons. That is after all, the purpose of online forums right - discussion? You didn't need to get narky with me over it.

[4pool]

Oh, so now it's Fabinho as well.

Who next?

Be sure and email the club and Jurgen to let him know who will be on the slide next before it actually happens. We don't want to make any more mistakes.

[Haggis36]

Oh, so now it's Fabinho as well.

Who next?

Be sure and email the club and Jurgen to let him know who will be on the slide next before it actually happens. We don't want to make any more mistakes.

Well Klopp has already noticed since he's taken him out of the team and replaced him with a teenager, so I can probably spare myself an email on this occasion.

Tongue and cheek aside, you clearly have no intention to actually engage in any discussion and you just want to shout and snark into the ether, so I'll just leave you to it I think. Toodles.

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

People's strengths are often also their "weaknesses" on the flip side. Jurgen is an emotional, loyal person. He creates groups that run through walls for him and each other. It's not ludicrous to suggest that he might also retain players past the optimum moment because of those bonds and his beliefs. And it would always be useful to have a person or persons who act as a foil for that. We've retained several players quite clearly beyond their best years, for whatever reasons - and it needs to change. Otherwise we'll carry on having a declining, aging squad on massive wages and no ability to renew ourselves.

He's a brilliant man and manager, but it doesn't mean every decision he would make is perfect - he'd be the very first to say that. Someone less invested in the individuals needs to have a strong voice over contract extensions.

[Ghost Town]

There's a few things I could call you, but "Top Red" wasn't at the top of my list I confess. Not that I've ever used that term in my life, but go off I guess. Hiding behind the "don't you think Klopp knows better!!!!" defence and chucking in emojis to be "cute" rather than any attempt to debate the points, is it? Ah, a tale as old time.

SISO

[Ghost Town]

People's strengths are often also their "weaknesses" on the flip side. Jurgen is an emotional, loyal person. He creates groups that run through walls for him and each other. It's not ludicrous to suggest that he might also retain players past the optimum moment because of those bonds and his beliefs. And it would always be useful to have a person or persons who act as a foil for that. We've retained several players quite clearly beyond their best years, for whatever reasons - and it needs to change. Otherwise we'll carry on having a declining, aging squad on massive wages and no ability to renew ourselves.

He's a brilliant man and manager, but it doesn't mean every decision he would make is perfect - he'd be the very first to say that. Someone less invested in the individuals needs to have a strong voice over contract extensions.

Nah, the problem is that many (no idea if you do, so not aimed at you) are implying that he keeps players out of loyalty because he's too much of a dumbfuck to see that that's a problem, whereas scrotes on forums can see it easily, and the poor fool needs someone else above him to tell him what every biff on twitter can see but he, Jurgen Klopp, apparently can't.

And that is grade A bollocks.

For starters there are plenty of people around him to tell him already if he's making a universe grade cock-up. It doesn't need a RAWK-approved shill parachuted in to make him aware of things. He's talked often about the discussions they have, the advice he is given, how he values and takes on board input fom many sources. So all this guff by so many here, supposedly diagnosing what's wrong and promulgating solutions is just fannying around trying to sound self-important.

Then, it's true that Klopp has an emotional nature and values loyalty. But in those instances where he decides to show loyalty to a player he'll do it after advice and with his eyes open for reasons which we with limited info cannot always know, even if we try and pretend we know everything. He'll do it even if he knows that player is on a downward curve. And he's cool with that. He does it anyway. Not because he fails to see what every whinger on Twitter and RAWK can see, yet he can't, but because even seeing whatever there is to see (which let's remember need not be what people claim there is to see) he chooses to go ahead anyway.

He's cool with it. And so we have to be cool with it too. Because that's what comes from having him as manager. It's part of the package. Anyone who wants a different type of manager, a "ruthless" and "there's no place for sentiment" and "do what RAWK tells him to" manager will have to wait. Maybe the next geezer will be like that and some of you can revel in it.

But it ain't Klopp. So can we not shut the fuck up about it? I mean his seeming imbelicility in this regard is already mentioned 47,000 times a day here. It doesn't need yet another airing in every single fucking thread.

Put the kettle on!

[4pool]

Well Klopp has already noticed since he's taken him out of the team and replaced him with a teenager, so I can probably spare myself an email on this occasion.

Tongue and cheek aside, you clearly have no intention to actually engage in any discussion and you just want to shout and snark into the ether, so I'll just leave you to it I think. Toodles.

Before you toodle off, Andy Roberton turns 29 shortly. Can you let us know when his legs will go, as much running as he does, so we can let Jurgen know and he can get a replacement ready.

Help save our side. Ta.

[LiamG]

A new deal would really hammer home the sentimental issue with Klopp.

Firmino is a legend & done well this season. But his legs are going & injuries are quite frequent now as well.
We need a reduction in age in the squad

So you'd get rid of our joint top scorer in the league? he definitely deserves a one year extension

[AndyMuller]

Nah, the problem is that many (no idea if you do, so not aimed at you) are implying that he keeps players out of loyalty because he's too much of a dumbfuck to see that that's a problem, whereas scrotes on forums can see it easily, and the poor fool needs someone else above him to tell him what every biff on twitter can see but he, Jurgen Klopp, apparently can't.

And that is grade A bollocks.

For starters there are plenty of people around him to tell him already if he's making a universe grade cock-up. It doesn't need a RAWK-approved shill parachuted in to make him aware of things. He's talked often about the discussions they have, the advice he is given, how he values and takes on board input fom many sources. So all this guff by so many here, supposedly diagnosing what's wrong and promulgating solutions is just fannying around trying to sound self-important.

Then, it's true that Klopp has an emotional nature and values loyalty. But in those instances where he decides to show loyalty to a player he'll do it after advice and with his eyes open for reasons which we with limited info cannot always know, even if we try and pretend we know everything. He'll do it even if he knows that player is on a downward curve. And he's cool with that. He does it anyway. Not because he fails to see what every whinger on Twitter and RAWK can see, yet he can't, but because even seeing whatever there is to see (which let's remember need not be what people claim there is to see) he chooses to go ahead anyway.

He's cool with it. And so we have to be cool with it too. Because that's what comes from having him as manager. It's part of the package. Anyone who wants a different type of manager, a "ruthless" and "there's no place for sentiment" and "do what RAWK tells him to" manager will have to wait. Maybe the next geezer will be like that and some of you can revel in it.

But it ain't Klopp. So can we not shut the fuck up about it? I mean his seeming imbelicility in this regard is already mentioned 47,000 times a day here. It doesn't need yet another airing in every single fucking thread.

Put the kettle on!

 

This fella is a lunatic and cannot take anyone on here saying Klopp may have made a mistake or wrong decision.

[Knight]

Maybe so, but that's not a reason to throw good money after bad. We've made a series of bizarre contractual decisions in the past few years but we should be looking to break the cycle, not perpetuate it. Particularly since these things do not exist in a vacuum. The antidote to renewing too many old players is not to.. renew even more old players.

Ultimately:
- We have an enormous wage bill that does not remotely correlate with our level on the pitch, and which is directly impacting upon our ability to refresh the squad
- We have one of the oldest, slowest and least athletic squads in the league
- We have already renewed a large number of players in the same age bracket who are past their best (which is not to say they are *finished*, but they are demonstrably below their peak level), for the most part on enormous wages relative to their current on-pitch level (Salah, Henderson, Fabinho, VVD)
- We have a pretty bloated squad full of injury-prone players (some of these will leave soon)

Bobby is a bonafide legend. But he's also 31, has lost the vast majority of any athleticism he once had (meaning he struggles to press anywhere near as effectively as he used to), is one of our highest paid players, has declined significantly from his peak, and has started to pick up a shitload of injuries. 35 games missed (and counting) since the start of last season - with at least 5 different injuries - if you were keeping tally by the way. Keita has a better injury record over the last 18 months and he missed the entire first half of this season... Keeping injury prone players around for squad depth is a false economy, because they're never actually available when you need them. Like now, for instance.

He basically ticks every negative box on the "caution re: renewing players over 30" checklist. Does he still have a lot to offer the right team? Totally. If we kept him, would he contribute next season? I'm sure he would, to some extent. Does that mean it makes sense, financially or from a squad perspective? God no.

Great post and the strength of the pushback is very odd.

At a certain point our colossal drop off needs to be allowed to shape how we view decisions the club have made in the past few years. Calling them bizarre decisions in light of our on pitch performances and points total  doesn't feel especially brazen or wrongheaded even if you think it's wrong. And if you do think it's wrong give some thought through reasons rather than responding like we've seen in this thread.

As for the idea that it's belittling Klopp to point out the value of a director of football who can make decisions over his head. Either we believe in a director of football role or we don't. If we don't, Klopp has final say and that's a good thing because he's Klopp. Or we think that the structure which brought us so much success, a structure which limits Klopp's authority and ability to make decisions on transfers, contracts and wages, is a good thing. People asking for that aren't belittling Klopp, they're just asking for the structure that so clearly worked, rather than what we've currently got, which if we believe the briefings, is different.

[redk84]

No issues with Bobby signing for an extension

Issues with other players because they make less sense but this makes sense to me. Our attack is  in good shape now and needs no work for a while

[tubby]

So you'd get rid of our joint top scorer in the league? he definitely deserves a one year extension

He's getting on in age, he's injured a lot these days, and he's just as likely to go 10 games without scoring.

[Pistolero]

Great post and the strength of the pushback is very odd.

Indeed.... a well reasoned POV....... some very odd, overly sensitive cats on here