Poll

RAWK and Brexit

No Deal!
65 (8.8%)
Mays Deal!
14 (1.9%)
No Brexit!
539 (72.8%)
Don't Know
10 (1.4%)
Don't Care
15 (2%)
I don't live in the UK
97 (13.1%)

Total Members Voted: 740

Author Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"  (Read 1440216 times)

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22360 on: May 6, 2019, 09:37:06 am »
Interesting analysis. John Crace too, puzzled by many elements of what looks like a fudge dressed up as a ‘solution’.

What none of the political commentators seem prepared to make explicit, which surprises me, is that Corbyn isn’t calling the shots - it’s blatantly obvious it’s Milne and Murray.

The negotiation part is really weird. I agree with you on who this 'agreement' would appeal to, would say though that Starmer's team are coming out publicly and daring Corbyn to sack them and renege on the pledges over a second referendum which prevented more splitting away.

eg Pennycock, Shadow Brexit Minister, this morning on twitter: "As I said from the despatch box on 9 April, given where we now are there is a clear requirement to seek “public approval for any agreement that might emerge at this late hour by means of a confirmatory referendum”."

All seems a bit like everyone lining up their excuses for walking away from talks to me, rather than Corbyn and Milne risking 'the movement' over Brexit.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22361 on: May 6, 2019, 10:01:20 am »


All seems a bit like everyone lining up their excuses for walking away from talks to me, rather than Corbyn and Milne risking 'the movement' over Brexit.

That's the rub.  Not doing it, not because it's in the best interests of the country or voters, but simply to protect "the movement".  Pure self interest.

Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons rarely works in the long run.  It will get us some breathing space but it wont save Labour because soon enough they'll move onto the next debacle.
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22362 on: May 7, 2019, 08:50:21 am »
Last day to register for the European elections. EU citizens in Britain, apparently, have a bit of a faff with an extra form to do. Best for Britain (pro-Remain group - their CEO is on Remainiacs podcast all the time) has done a way to register where they do the forms for you if you've not got round to registering yet or aren't sure whether you are: https://getvoting.org/#/

"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline Danny Boys Dad

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22363 on: May 7, 2019, 10:07:21 am »
Last day to register for the European elections. EU citizens in Britain, apparently, have a bit of a faff with an extra form to do. Best for Britain (pro-Remain group - their CEO is on Remainiacs podcast all the time) has done a way to register where they do the forms for you if you've not got round to registering yet or aren't sure whether you are: https://getvoting.org/#/

I think there's been a problem with that, best to do it directly with the Council.
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Offline Yosser0_0

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22364 on: May 7, 2019, 10:37:05 am »
Interesting piece from Matthew d’Ancona in the Guardian who doesn't see anyway that a Corbyn / May deal can work.

Convinced this stitch-up can end the Brexit ordeal? Think again
- Matthew d’Ancona


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/06/stitch-up-brexit-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn




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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22365 on: May 7, 2019, 10:53:20 am »
Interesting piece from Matthew d’Ancona in the Guardian who doesn't see anyway that a Corbyn / May deal can work.

Convinced this stitch-up can end the Brexit ordeal? Think again
- Matthew d’Ancona


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/06/stitch-up-brexit-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn
Matthew d’Ancona might well be correct about the outcome of a Commons vote on such a deal; this does not, however, preclude Corbyn and May from attempting just such a stitch-up. After all, this is exactly what they are attempting to hammer out right now. Surely just the attempt will be the final nail in the coffin of their leaderships (and parties). It could be a positive thing, where it is the final straw to force far more Labour voters to look elsewhere to prevent Brexit.
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Offline Kekule

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22366 on: May 7, 2019, 12:55:32 pm »
At his press conference Frottage just said the Brexit Party will not be publishing any policies until after the European elections. During the campaign they will be focusing on "democracy".

What, exactly, is democratic about saying "vote for us and we'll decide what your vote means later"? 

A sizeable percentage will fall for it, again. No one called him out on it, either.  ::)
« Last Edit: May 7, 2019, 02:20:37 pm by Kekuleyule y'all! »

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22367 on: May 7, 2019, 02:09:56 pm »


Their voters will not care less.

They just want us out!!!

Offline Jshooters

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22368 on: May 7, 2019, 03:45:59 pm »
At his press conference Frottage just said the Brexit Party will not be publishing any policies until after the European elections. During the campaign they will be focusing on "democracy".

What, exactly, is democratic about saying "vote for us and we'll decide what your vote means later"? 

A sizeable percentage will fall for it, again. No one called him out on it, either.  ::)

He also said that should the Brexit Party 'win' the EU elections (whatever that means) then they will demand to be on the team responsible for negotiating with the EU.  But their position is a WTO Brexit.  Which is a no-deal Brexit.  Which literally doesn't require ANY negotiation   ::)
Believer

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22369 on: May 7, 2019, 04:10:05 pm »
He also said that should the Brexit Party 'win' the EU elections (whatever that means) then they will demand to be on the team responsible for negotiating with the EU.  But their position is a WTO Brexit.  Which is a no-deal Brexit.  Which literally doesn't require ANY negotiation   ::)
so they’re getting 50% of the votes for this to happen, or will it be a coalition with their fellow Brexit parties like UKIP/Tory/labour

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22370 on: May 7, 2019, 04:48:44 pm »
I think there's been a problem with that, best to do it directly with the Council.

Thanks Danny, yeah, they seem to have replaced it with links to what to do and government sites now.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline jepovic

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22371 on: May 7, 2019, 05:19:51 pm »
Rob Ford, at Manchester University - he's literally written the book on Kippers (well a lot of papers heh), has been posting since I wrote that.

"The deadlock makes people angry. The only possible solutions to the deadlock make people angry. Great news for populists like Frottage. Bad news for everyone else.

One problem for the main parties is that doing a compromise deal probably won’t move the agenda on from Brexit but not doing a deal definitely won’t.

Another problem is that if Frottage follows through and stands Brexit party candidates everywhere in the next GE there’s a strong chance that the underlying demographic and identity divides revealed by Brexit will continue to drive many voters choices whatever actually happens.

A third problem is that a Brexit deal may lead strong Remainers to split off too (though who they go to is an open Q for now). But the only viable way to given them what they want - another referendum - is also v likely to intensify Brexit polarisation.

Doing nothing on Brexit makes things worse. But the only viable options - deal or 2nd ref - also make things worse. Quite a pickle."

Revoking Article 50 only ends the immediate legislative process, not the political one and it's the political one which has left us with a zombie government and the prospect of, at best, a weak coalition government based on whether Labour will acquiesce to whatever the SNP want. Does that make it go away? Maybe Corbyn's Labour coming into power as part of a coalition would shut it out for a bit? That's the Owen Jones theory of it, just not convinced.
This argumentation is strange.  Those options have enormously different real world consequences, which will be felt for decades. That should be guiding the decision.
Second, I think many experts underestimate how quickly an issue can fall off the agenda. People are sick of brexit. Remember Iraq? Coal mines? Whatever the decision is, there will be massive complaints and then people will move on. I really doubt Frottage will do well in a GE on a pure brexit agenda.

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22372 on: May 7, 2019, 05:38:48 pm »
This argumentation is strange.  Those options have enormously different real world consequences, which will be felt for decades. That should be guiding the decision.
Second, I think many experts underestimate how quickly an issue can fall off the agenda. People are sick of brexit. Remember Iraq? Coal mines? Whatever the decision is, there will be massive complaints and then people will move on. I really doubt Frottage will do well in a GE on a pure brexit agenda.

Not sure the argumentation is strange solely because one wishes to view things more optimistically. :) What you're saying there is perfectly plausible, heard it and read it myself from several on the Corbynite left - who themselves are famous for having forgotten about Iraq and the coal mines. However, the case Ford, and others, are making is that the divisions aren't new things but Brexit is accelerating something already there and which tears at the voter coalitions which formed our traditional political parties.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline BoRed

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22373 on: May 8, 2019, 12:13:44 pm »
Corbyn: "perhaps May should take tips form Jurgen Klopp on getting a good result in Europe" ;D

Offline Devon Red

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22374 on: May 8, 2019, 12:42:35 pm »
Corbyn: "perhaps May should take tips form Jurgen Klopp on getting a good result in Europe" ;D

Perhaps Corbyn should take tips from Jurgen Klopp and call unequivocally for a People's Vote.

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22375 on: May 9, 2019, 09:52:14 am »
Government was warned about Brexit ferry payouts

Quote
The government was warned last year that it would face a bill of up to £20m if sued over the procurement of no-deal Brexit ferry services, the National Audit Office has revealed.

It said the Department for Transport's (DfT) accounting officer thought there was a "high likelihood" of a challenge over the contracts with Brittany Ferries, DFDS and Seaborne Freight.

She also warned Eurotunnel could sue.

In March, the DfT agreed to a £33m settlement with the firm.

In response to the National Audit Office's (NAO) report, the government said it had "carefully considered the legal risk at all stages of the procurement".

The Eurotunnel case was brought after the government handed out three contracts worth more than £100m in total to Brittany Ferries, DFDS, and Seaborne Freight in December.

These were to provide additional freight capacity on ferry services between Britain and mainland Europe in the event that a no-deal Brexit led to disruption at UK ports.

The awards were not subject to a full public procurement process, which the DfT said was justified by "reasons of extreme urgency brought about by events unforeseen by the contracting authority".

However, Eurotunnel challenged the government's handling of the spend, and began legal proceedings in January, seeking up to £80m in damages.

It claimed it had never been approached as a potential provider, despite having previously run a ferry service.

The Transport Secretary Chris Grayling previously called the company's decision to take legal action "disappointing".

The NAO report reveals that Mr Grayling's department was advised that while a procurement challenge was probable and "likely to be successful", any trial was unlikely to occur before the 29 March, the day Britain was scheduled to leave the EU.

It was also advised any disputes over the contracts would probably end in a payout of up to £20m.

In the event, Eurotunnel's case was expedited, forcing the DfT to pay out to protect its contracts for the delivery critical supplies in the event of a no-deal.

All three ferry contracts have since been terminated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48208121

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22376 on: May 9, 2019, 01:08:37 pm »
Quote
Commitment to leave EU confirmed in Labour party manifesto and at party conference says @jeremycorbyn

https://twitter.com/BBCNormanS/status/1126431063574818818

Quote
Over 17 million people voted to leave the European Union. As democratic socialists, we cannot ignore that.

We voted to trigger Article 50 in 2017 and promised to respect the referendum in our general election manifesto and again at our party conference last year.

Quote
Labour will never be the party of the 52 per cent or of the 48 per cent.

https://labour.org.uk/press/jeremy-corbyn-launches-labours-eu-election-campaign/

Quote
Labour will continue to oppose the Government’s bad deal or a disastrous no deal. And if we can’t get agreement along the lines of our alternative plan, or a general election, Labour backs the option of a public vote

https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/transforming-britain-and-europe/

So as anyone who's been paying attention/isn't deluding themselves already assumed, there will be no public vote if Labour bails out the Tories with a cross-party deal.


Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22377 on: May 9, 2019, 01:20:35 pm »
So as anyone who's been paying attention/isn't deluding themselves already assumed, there will be no public vote if Labour bails out the Tories with a cross-party deal.

And there will be no cross-party deal capable of passing through Parliament. It's the "backs the option of a public vote" which has really pissed off friends who are still members though.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22378 on: May 9, 2019, 01:49:29 pm »


It's a defacto public vote, as the other two options (Brexit deal or GE) will not happen.

Offline Devon Red

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22379 on: May 9, 2019, 02:05:48 pm »
It's a defacto public vote, as the other two options (Brexit deal or GE) will not happen.

Which makes it all the more cowardly that they can't just admit it. It also ensures that votes for Labour in the EU election will be counted as votes for Brexit. 'A new kind of politics' my arse. They didn't even put anyone up to be interviewed on the BBC on the day that they launched their manifesto! Although to be fair the others haven't done much better; the Tories might not even have a campaign at all, the Brexit party is going to release its manifesto after the election and won't reveal where its funding comes from, and Change UK can't even design a logo or maintain a twitter account. The only party who seem to have their messaging sorted are the Lib Dems who are campaigning with the slogan 'bollocks to brexit'. That's got my vote.

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22380 on: May 9, 2019, 02:16:11 pm »


I'm not defending it, just saying it for what it is.

Deliberate ambiguity is not going to continue to work for them I don't think.

The Lib Dems and The Greens are only two choices as far as I'm concerned.

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22381 on: May 9, 2019, 10:35:22 pm »
Small point I'd make is that there is not, and will never be (as things are), a point where either Labour's 'alternative plan' or wanting a General Election will not be foremost in what Labour are doing. Tories in power? Want a general election. Win a general election? Labour's alternative plan. Heads, I win. Tails, you lose.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline BobOnATank

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22382 on: May 10, 2019, 01:29:28 am »
Which makes it all the more cowardly that they can't just admit it. It also ensures that votes for Labour in the EU election will be counted as votes for Brexit. 'A new kind of politics' my arse. They didn't even put anyone up to be interviewed on the BBC on the day that they launched their manifesto! Although to be fair the others haven't done much better; the Tories might not even have a campaign at all, the Brexit party is going to release its manifesto after the election and won't reveal where its funding comes from, and Change UK can't even design a logo or maintain a twitter account. The only party who seem to have their messaging sorted are the Lib Dems who are campaigning with the slogan 'bollocks to brexit'. That's got my vote.

But, but, but apparently something happened 15 years ago (or whatever - no a war was part of it) and the lib dems (even though the whole of society, jobs, future for your kids etc... matters), well we are not sure if a vote for them can be trusted, cause "everyone" is afraid of the tories….

Personally I think you made the right decision, fair play.

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22383 on: May 10, 2019, 10:19:50 am »
Small point I'd make is that there is not, and will never be (as things are), a point where either Labour's 'alternative plan' or wanting a General Election will not be foremost in what Labour are doing. Tories in power? Want a general election. Win a general election? Labour's alternative plan. Heads, I win. Tails, you lose.

Totally correct and as things are pushing for a GE has to be upmost in their minds.

Whilst we havent got one yet though it does create some fog over the rest of the strategy and leads to this sitting on the fence charge
A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22384 on: May 10, 2019, 10:39:37 am »
Lib dems or Green for me now. Only ones with any common sense. Labour have lost a voter, well to be honest was a while ago.
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Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22385 on: May 10, 2019, 11:54:52 am »
I take it the cross-party talks won't be ending this week, as journalists were predicting at the beginning of the week? They will drag on for another week at least achieving absolutely nothing.

EDIT: Starmer comes across as impatient with the talks in this video

https://twitter.com/kevin_larkin/status/1126519493423980544
« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 11:58:40 am by ShakaHislop »

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22386 on: May 11, 2019, 09:04:21 am »
I take it the cross-party talks won't be ending this week, as journalists were predicting at the beginning of the week? They will drag on for another week at least achieving absolutely nothing.

EDIT: Starmer comes across as impatient with the talks in this video

https://twitter.com/kevin_larkin/status/1126519493423980544

Side effect of Labour leadership team being stung by criticism of their 'never talk to Tories' policy and switching the full other way. Drag on til after the Europeans before being put out of their misery? Only thing which would change that is May taking something to Parliament but that's looking less and less likely before then too (purdah kicks in for major projects, doesn't it?).

eg. from guidance for the civil service for these elections. (pdf)

Quote
Similarly, national announcements by the UK Government may have a particular impact on
European issues, for example, the publication of policy statements which have a specific
European dimension. Ministers will wish to be aware of the potential sensitivities in this
regard and might decide, on advice, to postpone making certain announcements until after the
elections. Obviously, this needs to be balanced carefully against any implication that deferral
itself could influence the political outcome and the need to continue essential business. Each
case should be considered on its merits. Again, in cases of doubt, further advice should be
sought.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 09:06:22 am by Zeb »
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22387 on: May 11, 2019, 10:30:52 am »
Perhaps Corbyn should take tips from Jurgen Klopp and call unequivocally for a People's Vote.
Boom!

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22388 on: May 11, 2019, 06:03:40 pm »
Quote
Labour will never be the party of the 52 per cent or of the 48 per cent.
No shit.
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22389 on: May 11, 2019, 07:02:51 pm »
Generational thing?

edit: Just to be clear, this is polling for a General Election - Cornerflag's posted the European election one on the thread for that.

Opinium, 8th May. Changes with 23rd April.

LAB  28 (-5)
CON  22 (-4)
BREX  21 (+4)
LD  11 (+5)
UKIP  4 (-)
CHUK  4 (-)
GRN  6 (+2)

Last time the combined Tory and Labour vote share polled below 50% for Westminster was December 1981. Peak SDP/Liberals at 50%+ with Tories and Labour both in the low 20s.

One thing which still seems very unclear is how anyone gets anything through parliament without splitting one or both of the main parties further.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 07:44:12 pm by Zeb »
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22390 on: May 11, 2019, 07:05:50 pm »
So are 75% of those voters pro Brexit then? If of course Labour is a Brexit party as stated.

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22391 on: May 11, 2019, 07:22:21 pm »
So are 75% of those voters pro Brexit then? If of course Labour is a Brexit party as stated.

Certainly voting for pro-Brexit parties. Tables for this aren't out but I'd lay money that both Labour and Tories are increasingly shifting to having a more 'remainery' base. Like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife etc.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline Trada

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22392 on: May 11, 2019, 07:46:43 pm »
Generational thing?

edit: Just to be clear, this is polling for a General Election - Cornerflag's posted the European election one on the thread for that.

Opinium, 8th May. Changes with 23rd April.

LAB  28 (-5)
CON  22 (-4)
BREX  21 (+4)
LD  11 (+5)
UKIP  4 (-)
CHUK  4 (-)
GRN  6 (+2)

Last time the combined Tory and Labour vote share polled below 50% for Westminster was December 1981. Peak SDP/Liberals at 50%+ with Tories and Labour both in the low 20s.

One thing which still seems very unclear is how anyone gets anything through parliament without splitting one or both of the main parties further.

It doesn't make sense their poll from the day before.

Westminster Voting Intention:

LAB: 30% (-3)
CON: 25% (-1)
BXP: 17% (=)
LDM: 11% (+5)
GRN: 5% (+1)
UKIP: 4% (=)
CHUK: 2% (-2)

Via @OpiniumResearch, 3-7 May. Changes w/ 21-23 Apr.
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22393 on: May 11, 2019, 07:52:02 pm »
It doesn't make sense their poll from the day before.

Westminster Voting Intention:

LAB: 30% (-3)
CON: 25% (-1)
BXP: 17% (=)
LDM: 11% (+5)
GRN: 5% (+1)
UKIP: 4% (=)
CHUK: 2% (-2)

Via @OpiniumResearch, 3-7 May. Changes w/ 21-23 Apr.
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22394 on: May 11, 2019, 07:52:14 pm »
It doesn't make sense their poll from the day before.

Westminster Voting Intention:

LAB: 30% (-3)
CON: 25% (-1)
BXP: 17% (=)
LDM: 11% (+5)
GRN: 5% (+1)
UKIP: 4% (=)
CHUK: 2% (-2)

Via @OpiniumResearch, 3-7 May. Changes w/ 21-23 Apr.

Looks like the same poll but your version of it is mangled? Or at least differs to that which has gone into the Observer.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/11/brexit-party-may-get-more-eu-election-votes-than-tories-and-labour-combined-poll

edit: could be different polls actually but same rough theme, accounting for margin of error.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 07:57:53 pm by Zeb »
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22395 on: May 11, 2019, 09:27:17 pm »
Telegraph have a poll tomorrow that has the Brexit Party ahead of the Tories in would-be General Election voting intentions:

https://twitter.com/edwardmalnick/status/1127302582949617664



49 seats is the Brexit Party prediction. 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/05/11/brexit-party-beats-tories-general-election-poll-would-win-49/

Quote
The Brexit Party has overtaken the Conservatives in national polling for the first time, with Nigel Frottage predicted to win 49 seats in a general election, a bombshell poll reveals.

A ComRes survey found that if a general election campaign led by Theresa May took place now, it would put the Tories on course for their worst result in history – apparently confirming the fears of Conservative MPs and activists in uproar over the Prime Minister’s handling of Brexit.

Labour would become the largest party by a margin of 137 seats, allowing Jeremy Corbyn to lead a minority government as the Tories fell to third place in terms of vote share.

Brandon Lewis, the party chairman, Penny Mordaunt, the Defence...

Rest is behind a paywall.
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22396 on: May 11, 2019, 10:09:52 pm »
It will be easy for the Brexit party to do well in the EU election lets be honest its doesn't really matter and I bet it will get a 20% turn out.

Just saw a bit of video of a Brexit party rally on Twitter its all very staged and American you can tell hes had advice from people like Bannon it won't be to long until the catchphrases and nick names start.

But its a different matter when people vote in a GE and their choices really effects their lives and the Brexit party have no policies and when they do it will be very Right Wing but I imagine a few left wing ideal thrown into the mix its will be all about trying to get votes by saying anything.

Odd that the MSM and lot on here was saying what the UK need is a Pro remain, Pro PV center of the road party and people will flock to them....... like fuck.

Jeremy has been spot on with brexit policies Labour made some good inroads in seats they need to win and it will pay off in the next GE when Labour wins it.

And why is the war criminal Blair still a member of the Labour party hes on TV again tomorrow telling members to vote for another party. Some Labour councilors this week were remove from the party for doing the same during the local election.

« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 10:21:11 pm by Big Jezza’s Jizza »
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22397 on: May 11, 2019, 10:20:28 pm »
Agree with the bit about Brexit Party benefiting from European election polling. If you've missed what's happened to the Labour vote, a lot of the remain portion is now currently in the Lib Dems, Change, and the Greens. Tories will tack towards the Brexit party before the next election to regain their voters. Looking forward to Jez telling remainers he's got some great pro-Brexit policies guaranteed to fire them up for his Labour government delivering them...
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22398 on: May 11, 2019, 11:37:41 pm »
It will be easy for the Brexit party to do well in the EU election lets be honest its doesn't really matter and I bet it will get a 20% turn out.

Just saw a bit of video of a Brexit party rally on Twitter its all very staged and American you can tell hes had advice from people like Bannon it won't be to long until the catchphrases and nick names start.

But its a different matter when people vote in a GE and their choices really effects their lives and the Brexit party have no policies and when they do it will be very Right Wing but I imagine a few left wing ideal thrown into the mix its will be all about trying to get votes by saying anything.

Odd that the MSM and lot on here was saying what the UK need is a Pro remain, Pro PV center of the road party and people will flock to them....... like fuck.

Jeremy has been spot on with brexit policies Labour made some good inroads in seats they need to win and it will pay off in the next GE when Labour wins it.

And why is the war criminal Blair still a member of the Labour party hes on TV again tomorrow telling members to vote for another party. Some Labour councilors this week were remove from the party for doing the same during the local election.
Seriously.Corbyn has been a complete disaster when it comes to Brexit. calling for art 50 to be invoked straight after the referendum without having a clue on the implications was bad enough but he took this even further when announcing to the world that Labour would not stand in the way of the Tories triggering ART 50, May laid down her red lines towards the end of 2016. she argued we have to leave the SM+CU, Corbyn once again fell into line and stopped arguing for the Norway Brexit he argued for only 2/3months before during the leadership election.I haven't seen anyone hit him with this question.

 Why did Corbyn argue for a Norway SM Brexit after the referendum and during the leadership election but completely drop this option when May told him we have to leave the SM+CU ?

I can only assume Labour members were won over by Mays arguments over leaving the SM+CU.
that is unbelievable. Leader of the Labour party wins the leadership arguing for a SM deal yet agrees to the Tory leaders demands on leaving the SM. the Tory leader had more influence on Labour policy and Labour members than the Labour leader.
The big turning point on Brexit was when May was allowed to lay down her red lines unchallenged, those red lines have not only made a deal impossible they are now gospel to the leave nutters, they have helped to split the country in half, Labour needed a strong intelligent leader at this time, they could have had Smith but they chose Corbyn, big mistake.

« Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 12:03:45 am by oldfordie »
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22399 on: May 12, 2019, 12:47:41 am »
Seriously.Corbyn has been a complete disaster when it comes to Brexit. calling for art 50 to be invoked straight after the referendum without having a clue on the implications was bad enough but he took this even further when announcing to the world that Labour would not stand in the way of the Tories triggering ART 50, May laid down her red lines towards the end of 2016. she argued we have to leave the SM+CU, Corbyn once again fell into line and stopped arguing for the Norway Brexit he argued for only 2/3months before during the leadership election.I haven't seen anyone hit him with this question.

 Why did Corbyn argue for a Norway SM Brexit after the referendum and during the leadership election but completely drop this option when May told him we have to leave the SM+CU ?

I can only assume Labour members were won over by Mays arguments over leaving the SM+CU.
that is unbelievable. Leader of the Labour party wins the leadership arguing for a SM deal yet agrees to the Tory leaders demands on leaving the SM. the Tory leader had more influence on Labour policy and Labour members than the Labour leader.
The big turning point on Brexit was when May was allowed to lay down her red lines unchallenged, those red lines have not only made a deal impossible they are now gospel to the leave nutters, they have helped to split the country in half, Labour needed a strong intelligent leader at this time, they could have had Smith but they chose Corbyn, big mistake.

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