Author Topic: The 2021 Formula 1 “Gives you whinge…”  (Read 314908 times)

Offline gazzalfc

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1600 on: June 20, 2021, 08:27:27 pm »
From Ted's notebook

Bottas didn't pit towards the end for a fastest lap because Perez had all 4 wheels off the track when he overtook him and his team thought there might have been a 5 second penalty which at that time would have given him a podium.

That being said, Perez finished 5.807 seconds ahead of Bottas so wouldn't have mattered
« Last Edit: June 21, 2021, 11:58:12 am by gazzalfc »

Offline Slick_Beef

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1601 on: June 20, 2021, 08:50:39 pm »
What a brilliant race,  this season has really got me interested in F1 again,  I couldn't stay in my seat for those last few laps

Offline Darren G

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1602 on: June 20, 2021, 09:06:03 pm »
They've messed up so many times this season with both Hamilton and Bottas.

Yeah, like when they forced Lewis to go off at Imola or hit the 'brake magic' at Baku.  When else have they messed up with Lewis this year?   

Offline Welshred

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1603 on: June 20, 2021, 10:54:07 pm »
Yeah, like when they forced Lewis to go off at Imola or hit the 'brake magic' at Baku.  When else have they messed up with Lewis this year?   

You can't deny that as a team they've made a hell of a lot more mistakes than usual?

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1604 on: June 21, 2021, 03:57:26 am »
Man, Red Bull strategists are a million miles ahead of Mercedes this year.

Offline Darren G

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1605 on: June 21, 2021, 05:52:09 am »
You can't deny that as a team they've made a hell of a lot more mistakes than usual?

Same question: when have Mercedes compromised Lewis' race prior to this weekend this year? The statement that I responded to was Clinical stating that Merc have messed up so many times with Bottas and Lewis this year. So when have they messed up with Lewis other than at Paul Ricard which may have made a difference?
« Last Edit: June 21, 2021, 05:58:08 am by Darren G »

Offline naYoRHa2b

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1606 on: June 21, 2021, 08:30:24 am »
Man, Red Bull strategists are a million miles ahead of Mercedes this year.

They weren't at Barcelona or Bahrain.

Offline Welshred

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1607 on: June 21, 2021, 10:18:13 am »
Same question: when have Mercedes compromised Lewis' race prior to this weekend this year? The statement that I responded to was Clinical stating that Merc have messed up so many times with Bottas and Lewis this year. So when have they messed up with Lewis other than at Paul Ricard which may have made a difference?

You can't answer a question with a question, however it was still clear that clinical was including the two drivers together as an example of the litany of errors Mercedes have made this season. Just because you don't like Lewis doesn't mean you have to separate the two to point score, Mercedes are making a hell of a lot of mistakes that would have made their season a lot more straight forward if they didn't make them.

However if you want specifics they messed up with Lewis at Monaco, they messed up twice yesterday with the initial pit stop and then not reacting to Max's second stop and leaving Lewis on heavily worn tyres that had no chance of defending, the break magic error is a Mercedes and driver combined as it didn't need to be so prominent to accidentally hit it. They've also made several mistakes during pit stops for Hamilton as well, can't remember where it was but they had to hold him whilst another driver was going past their garage which lengthened the time.

Lets not pretend mistakes haven't been made for both drivers now.

Offline Darren G

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1608 on: June 21, 2021, 11:46:10 am »
You can't answer a question with a question, however it was still clear that clinical was including the two drivers together as an example of the litany of errors Mercedes have made this season. Just because you don't like Lewis doesn't mean you have to separate the two to point score, Mercedes are making a hell of a lot of mistakes that would have made their season a lot more straight forward if they didn't make them.

However if you want specifics they messed up with Lewis at Monaco, they messed up twice yesterday with the initial pit stop and then not reacting to Max's second stop and leaving Lewis on heavily worn tyres that had no chance of defending, the break magic error is a Mercedes and driver combined as it didn't need to be so prominent to accidentally hit it. They've also made several mistakes during pit stops for Hamilton as well, can't remember where it was but they had to hold him whilst another driver was going past their garage which lengthened the time.

Lets not pretend mistakes haven't been made for both drivers now.

 My argument has nothing whatsoever to do with my feelings towards Lewis, or 'scoring points', so let's not derail the debate with childish accusations eh.  Clinical's statement of "They've messed up so many times this season with both Hamilton and Bottas" implies multiple errors for both.  Perhaps it was just poorly written and clinical meant something different, but that is not how the statement reads. 

Monaco was not a mistake from Mercedes at all.  Both Gasly and Vettel were markedly faster than Lewis and Seb said himself that he was just cruising to maintain a certain gap.  Lewis was simply not quick due to poor set-up choices with Bottas being far more competitive. 

Having to hold Lewis in the pits in the other instance you mention was likewise not a mistake from the team.  Mercedes had no way of knowing that another car was coming in behind them until Lewis was already in the pit lane, so what exactly could they have done differently there other than an unsafe release? 

Mercedes did initially make a strategy mistake yesterday earlier in the race, but reacting to Max second stop would have simply meant that they would have lost track position from the undercut and with the tyres being only one lap different it would be almost impossible for Lewis to pass for the lead. 

As for the brake magic incident being partially Mercedes fault for having the button "too prominent", that's frankly ridiculous.  They've had that button there for years incidentally, without incident.   
« Last Edit: June 21, 2021, 11:51:34 am by Darren G »

Offline Welshred

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1609 on: June 21, 2021, 11:54:51 am »
Clincal's statement wasn't poorly written at all, it was clear as day. You're the only one who has taken it the wrong way, the issue is with you. You can dismiss my points all you like but they are mistakes that Mercedes have made this season (whether driver or team error) that have cost them yet for some weird reason you want to deny those facts.

Offline voodoo ray

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1610 on: June 21, 2021, 02:37:47 pm »
anyway..........


could be 2 leclercs in f1 in a few years time, the younger won an F3 race over the weekend.

also, this amused me.

https://twitter.com/F1/status/1406946249559871492

Offline clinical

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1611 on: June 21, 2021, 03:04:17 pm »
Both Gasly and Vettel were markedly faster than Lewis



 :o. You surely can't believe this hahaha.
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Offline b_joseph

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1612 on: June 21, 2021, 03:07:17 pm »
I thought this video comparison ( Max vs lewis in qually this weekend ) was awesome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSCFCE27VVc


From Ted's notebook

Bottas didn't pit towards the end for a fastest lap because Perez had all 4 wheels off the track when he overtook him and his team thought there might have been a 5 second penalty which at that time would have given him a podium.

That being said, Perez finished 5.807 seconds ahead of Bottas so wouldn't have mattered
Could you imagine the reaction if Bottas had pitted for the fastest lap and the Monaco situation happened again? Oh boy...that would have been something


On the race, the Perez first stint was critical to Max winning...the Mercedes couldnt risk pitting their drivers behind him because he had great pace for the entirety of his 2nd stint. His fastest lap of the race was the last lap of his race.

Mercedes need to get Bottas' mind right because they need him to out perform Perez and at the moment, Perez is getting stronger and Bottas is seemingly becoming fragile
« Last Edit: June 21, 2021, 03:13:43 pm by b_joseph »

Offline Darren G

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1613 on: June 21, 2021, 04:03:16 pm »
:o. You surely can't believe this hahaha.


 Lewis in-lap: 1:17.0.   Gasly's in-lap: 1:16.7  Seb's in-lap 1:16.3

So yeah, at the point in the race being discussed I do think that. 
« Last Edit: June 21, 2021, 04:07:28 pm by Darren G »

Offline voodoo ray

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1614 on: June 22, 2021, 10:42:18 am »
the F1 game's not even out yet and it's about to be made even more out of date.


https://www.racefans.net/2021/06/21/yas-marina-changing-track-layout-to-aid-overtaking-f1-2021-season-finale/


Offline jackh

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1615 on: June 22, 2021, 12:18:31 pm »
the F1 game's not even out yet and it's about to be made even more out of date.

https://www.racefans.net/2021/06/21/yas-marina-changing-track-layout-to-aid-overtaking-f1-2021-season-finale/

I'm not sure I really understand those changes:

  • The 'back straights' have always generated overtaking opportunities anyway, and I would have thought that the 'current' T5-7 actually help a slower but more nimble car close-in on a faster but less nimble one to challenge down that first straight...?
  • Surely reducing the braking zone into the current T11 and removing T12-14 is going to reduce the opportunities for overtaking into there, and T15&16 mean that T17 isn't and won't be an overtaking place anyway (regardless of the extra speed the cars might now carry out of the 'loop')...?




Having said that, there were a few occasions when drivers did have a look/make overtakes into du Beausset at the weekend, so maybe I'm just not thinking it through correctly.  I'm also just a grump when it comes to change...

Offline voodoo ray

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1616 on: June 22, 2021, 01:08:31 pm »
I think the idea is to make it easier to follow, because it's pretty much impossible to follow close into 5, 6 and 7.

the other is supposedly going to have a little banking on it, but it possibly gets rid of the 2nd DRS zone

Offline jackh

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1617 on: June 22, 2021, 05:54:07 pm »
Tetchiest thread on RAWK this ;D (not you - more general!).

 :wave

Offline voodoo ray

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Offline jackh

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1619 on: June 22, 2021, 11:10:24 pm »

Offline paulrazor

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1620 on: June 23, 2021, 08:36:04 am »
please tell me im not the only one who hates this
yer ma should have called you Paolo Zico Gerry Socrates HELLRAZOR

Offline Mr Mingebag Squid

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1621 on: June 23, 2021, 09:20:24 am »
What is that?
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Offline gazzalfc

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1622 on: June 23, 2021, 09:22:55 am »
What is that?

That is the chassis according to the regulations for next season

Online IgorBobbins

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1623 on: June 23, 2021, 09:37:59 am »
Looks pretty slick. Shame it’ll be ruined by having horrible hubcaps over the wheels  :no

Look at how simplified those front wings are compared to what we have now!  :o

Offline voodoo ray

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1624 on: June 23, 2021, 09:40:46 am »
it'll be interesting to see what they actually do look like once people like newey get hold of the regs and find all the loopholes in them.

Offline Graeme

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1625 on: June 23, 2021, 09:49:51 am »
it'll be interesting to see what they actually do look like once people like newey get hold of the regs and find all the loopholes in them.

Yeah that was my first thought. Probably look significantly different to that image above.

Offline naYoRHa2b

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1626 on: June 23, 2021, 12:43:49 pm »
Looks alright.

If the aim is to follow closer in dirty air then shouldn't they be looking to scrap drs as well?

Offline clinical

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1627 on: June 23, 2021, 12:50:05 pm »
Looks alright.

If the aim is to follow closer in dirty air then shouldn't they be looking to scrap drs as well?

They may make it less powerful.
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Offline voodoo ray

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Offline Welshred

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1629 on: June 24, 2021, 12:21:19 pm »
Just had an email from Silverstone, full capacity for the British Grand Prix confirmed

Offline Graeme

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1630 on: June 24, 2021, 12:49:39 pm »
Forecast to rain on and off all weekend in Austria

Offline RedSince86

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1631 on: June 24, 2021, 12:51:59 pm »
it'll be interesting to see what they actually do look like once people like newey get hold of the regs and find all the loopholes in them.
;D
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Offline gazzalfc

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1632 on: June 25, 2021, 08:48:32 am »
FIA are limiting sensor systems in teams wheel guns used during pit stops. They are also introducing longer reaction times for wheel gun operators to ensure the human element is still the main factor of a pit stop and not having them rely on sensors and automation telling the mechanic the wheel is on the car correctly.

Quote
Mechanics must not respond quicker than 0.15 seconds to the completion of a task during the pitstop. For example, if a wheel nut is tightened, and a mechanic presses a button to carry out a further action within 0.15 seconds of this event, the pitstop system must register that input as invalid as it happened too quickly for it to be a legitimate human response to the event occurring. This would indicate either illegal automation rather than a human response, or that the mechanic anticipated the event rather then waiting for it to be properly completed. The button must thus be pressed again to complete the action. The directive also states that there must be a 0.2 second gap between the final all-clear signal being given to the mechanic in charge of releasing the vehicle, and the driver being given the signal to exit the pitbox

Comes into force for the Hungarian GP

Looks like this all stems the tit-for-tat between Mercedes and Red Bull. Red Bull have incredibly fast pit stops (the top 6 pitstop times this season are all owned by Red Bull) and Mercedes have made inquiries into Red Bulls techniques used to get them that fast.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2021, 08:51:58 am by gazzalfc »

Offline voodoo ray

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1633 on: June 25, 2021, 08:51:11 am »
that just seems like meddling to me and finding the answer to a problem that doesn't really exist.

I mean who cares?

Offline Graeme

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1634 on: June 25, 2021, 09:04:49 am »
That’s absolutely ridiculous

Offline voodoo ray

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1635 on: June 25, 2021, 10:03:52 am »
turkey replacing singapore on the calendar in october

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1636 on: June 25, 2021, 11:13:40 am »
FIA are limiting sensor systems in teams wheel guns used during pit stops. They are also introducing longer reaction times for wheel gun operators to ensure the human element is still the main factor of a pit stop and not having them rely on sensors and automation telling the mechanic the wheel is on the car correctly.
So they'd rather have a wheel come off at 200mph ( potentially ) than have it stay on; madness  >:(
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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1637 on: June 25, 2021, 11:19:10 am »
Pretty odd call that, all seems to be in aid of making it more exciting by having more mistakes.....which is just crazy considering that in turn makes things probably more dangerous
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1638 on: June 25, 2021, 12:52:21 pm »
Pretty odd call that, all seems to be in aid of making it more exciting by having more mistakes.....which is just crazy considering that in turn makes things probably more dangerous

Make the driver do his own tyres. He pops into the pits, climbs out and then does the business himself. Magic.

Offline Graeme

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Re: The 2021 Formula 1 thread
« Reply #1639 on: June 25, 2021, 02:16:19 pm »
Make the driver do his own tyres. He pops into the pits, climbs out and then does the business himself. Magic.

Good shout, maybe bring back refuelling too and he has to do that at the same time.