Topic: Should the UK and US be sending aid to India and other countries for Covid?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I've been watching the news about India and it's heart-rending.

Looks like a horrific mess. I think we should be going all out to help these people and get our arses into gear.

Not just for them, but also to prevent another wave flooding the world.

It's terrifying and upsetting. Not sure how much help 'we' are giving, but this should be across the globe for me. All the rich countries should be helping countries around the world.

We are all one people and we should be looking out for each other.

[BarryCrocker]

Barring the fact that we should always help those in destress, India has about 20% of the worlds population so the ramifications on the virus not being eradicated is massive to the rest of the world. We also need to be mindful that they are also one of the largest producers of vaccines for the rest of the developing world.

No matter how incompetent their current leadership may be, we don't get out of this mess without them.

[Elmo!]

Ben Rhodes take on it on Pod Save the World was that it would probably be politically easier (for India) for us and the USA etc to increase the amount of vaccines we are exporting to Africa and other Asian countries, to allow India to reroute vaccines it is currenlty producing and exporting to these countries towards their own population.

India manufactures a huge amount of vaccines but exports most of them and desperately needs them for their own population.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Ben Rhodes take on it on Pod Save the World was that it would probably be politically easier (for India) for us and the USA etc to increase the amount of vaccines we are exporting to Africa and other Asian countries, to allow India to reroute vaccines it is currenlty producing and exporting to these countries towards their own population.

India manufactures a huge amount of vaccines but exports most of them and desperately needs them for their own population.

This is the very disturbing reality which is all too conveniently overlooked by too many.

[Bangin Them In]

Quite apart from the fact they are human beings and it's the right thing to do - always, these decisions where rich countries snub the poor be it pandemics, Economic progression, terrorism it always comes back to your own shores - more global now than ever

[RedSince86]

I always feared early in the Pandemic how God forbid this ravaged India, 1.6 billion population and quite a percentage of that living in poverty, doesn't help they have a crackpot leader who like Trump and Bolsonaro has played down Covid. The western World really needs to help over there, we don't want more variants or Covid mutating while a speeded vaccination rollout is happening Worldwide.

Been horrific seeing it on the news, Modi is an absolute weapon.

[Oscarmac]

I always feared early in the Pandemic how God forbid this ravaged India, 1.6 billion population and quite a percentage of that living in poverty, doesn't help they have a crackpot leader who like Trump and Bolsonaro has played down Covid. The western World really needs to help over there, we don't want more variants or Covid mutating while a speeded vaccination rollout is happening Worldwide.

Been horrific seeing it on the news, Modi is an absolute weapon.

You can add Boris to that list.

[Red Beret]

Can we really do anything unless India asks for help though? The problem with leaders like this is that requesting help is an admission of failure, or that they got things wrong.

How many more will die because of one man's ego?

[Elmo!]

Can we really do anything unless India asks for help though? The problem with leaders like this is that requesting help is an admission of failure, or that they got things wrong.

How many more will die because of one man's ego?

Think that's basically why Ben Rhodes suggested the round about way of helping that I posted earlier.

[ScouserAtHeart]

Vaccines and medical supplies would help as it would take a long time to get up to speed here otherwise. But we're also running out of doctors and nurses to administer them. Some of them have been working non-stop for months, others are falling sick themselves.

[west_london_red]

Going to upset some people I suspect but I’d find it incredibly difficult to help countries like India and Brazil when I look at their leaders and governments, that’s not to say we shouldn’t help but on a personal level it’s with gritted teeth.

The counter argument obviously is that aid is to help the people rather then the governments but the people of those countries elected those twats in democratic elections, these weren’t military strong men who forced themselves upon a country and it’s people, they consciously voted for their leaders and I suspect in India at least will vote for him again in 3 years time and there comes a point at which leaders and people have to take some responsibility for their actions don’t they? India is a nuclear power with a space program - these were choices the country made long before Covid but when they were pouring millions upon millions into these things, maybe just maybe they should have thought about other things like healthcare infrastructure instead? I’m focusing on India because I know it better, but I’m sure similar arguments could be made about other countries. But then linking aid to the type of government the recipient has doesn’t sound like a particularly nice idea either, and is also ethically questionable.

So in short, let’s close our eyes and help where we can.

[Yorkykopite]

Of course we should help.

The Indian political leaders are corrupt, incompetent, vainglorious and deeply racist. Their contempt for the class of Indian that is now dying of Covid is famous - or ought to be. But that's why the dying need our help.  Just because Modi treats them like garbage doesn't mean the West should.

[west_london_red]

Of course we should help.

The Indian political leaders are corrupt, incompetent, vainglorious and deeply racist. Their contempt for the class of Indian that is now dying of Covid is famous - or ought to be. But that's why the dying need our help.  Just because Modi treats them like garbage doesn't mean the West should.

Very true, but those people he treats like garbage voted for him not once but twice, in greater numbers the second time then the first of I remember correctly. While now isn’t the time, at some time people need to take responsibility for what they sow.

[Hendollama]

Very true, but those people he treats like garbage voted for him not once but twice, in greater numbers the second time then the first of I remember correctly. While now isn’t the time, at some time people need to take responsibility for what they sow.

Think no one is going to take responsibility, not the voters and certainly not Modi. Frankly expect him to win a third term despite the shitshow right now.

There's a meme going around right which states something along the lines "Family members mar gaye, job chala gaya, lekin vote milega to Modi ko hi", meaning, 'our Family members are dead, we have lost our jobs, but we will still vote Modi'. It's a meme, but sadly, it reflects reality.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Very true, but those people he treats like garbage voted for him not once but twice, in greater numbers the second time then the first of I remember correctly. While now isn’t the time, at some time people need to take responsibility for what they sow.

To be honest, that second election was in the summer of 2019.
Also, last year, his handling of the pandemic was praised by a lot of leaders. Everyone thought it would be very bad.
Even after that, since last October, funds were allocated to build oxygen factories but the state governments botched it up because they were the opposition parties.

His only mistake was not bothering with the safety protocols with the local elections and unnecessary permissions with the religious festivals. Which also, in hindsight, wasnt a problem until end of February and/or starting of March.

I get it that a lot of people dont like him for his Hindu policies. I dont either. But using that as a yardstick to beat him for every single thing, is quite frankly, unfair. Atleast lets be fair in criticism and learn to differentiate between them.

But in the interest of this thread, lets not turn it into a Modi bashing thread.

This is a global issue. And we no matter what, we are all in it together. Like climate change and deforestation.

[Commie Bobbie]

No matter how incompetent their current leadership may be, we don't get out of this mess without them.

Absolutely. However it can not be understated that the BJP and its worldview has not helped matters.

Modi is very akin to Trump, Johnson, Bolsonaro in his absurd, populist and backward worldview - we need to help India to help itself - because as some have said - without India getting back on its feet - the rest of the world doesn't recover as quickly from this bastard virus as it needs to.

[Yorkykopite]

Very true, but those people he treats like garbage voted for him not once but twice, in greater numbers the second time then the first of I remember correctly. While now isn’t the time, at some time people need to take responsibility for what they sow.

Perhaps some did, but surely not all. But, more than that, helping someone in distress (dying from a virus, drowning in a river) shouldn't be conditional on how they voted in the last election.

[west_london_red]

Perhaps some did, but surely not all. But, more than that, helping someone in distress (dying from a virus, drowning in a river) shouldn't be conditional on how they voted in the last election.

I don’t think I said we shouldn’t help, or that it should be conditional. It just leaves a bad taste when all these right wingers and nationalists can’t actually look after their own which is usually the point of their existence.

[Yorkykopite]

I don’t think I said we shouldn’t help, or that it should be conditional. It just leaves a bad taste when all these right wingers and nationalists can’t actually look after their own which is usually the point of their existence.

That's correct, you didn't. But I do think you're obfuscating things. In this post it is "the right wingers and nationalists", which I take to mean Modi and his fellow rabble-rousers, who are in your sights. Mine too. But in the previous post, those who "need to take responsibility for what they sow" are the suffering multitudes who made the mistake of voting for him. That's what I'm not certain about.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Army being called in Delhi.

They have the ability and agility to mobilise resources and nullify this threat.

Slightly hopeful now. But will feel better if the numbers come down by a factor of at least 90-95%.

And India ramps up its vaccination drive to have everyone inoculated by this year-end at the latest.

[Yorkykopite]

Army being called in Delhi.

They have the ability and agility to mobilise resources and nullify this threat.

Slightly hopeful now. But will feel better if the numbers come down by a factor of at least 90-95%.

And India ramps up its vaccination drive to have everyone inoculated by this year-end at the latest.

With respect, that sounds a little bit like a propaganda sheet. "No problem here", "Nothing to see". "Everyone go home" etc. Let's hope the Indian army is up to it. Because the civilian authorities have fucked things up completely.

[Garrus]

Going to upset some people I suspect but I’d find it incredibly difficult to help countries like India and Brazil when I look at their leaders and governments, that’s not to say we shouldn’t help but on a personal level it’s with gritted teeth.

The counter argument obviously is that aid is to help the people rather then the governments but the people of those countries elected those twats in democratic elections, these weren’t military strong men who forced themselves upon a country and it’s people, they consciously voted for their leaders and I suspect in India at least will vote for him again in 3 years time and there comes a point at which leaders and people have to take some responsibility for their actions don’t they? India is a nuclear power with a space program - these were choices the country made long before Covid but when they were pouring millions upon millions into these things, maybe just maybe they should have thought about other things like healthcare infrastructure instead? I’m focusing on India because I know it better, but I’m sure similar arguments could be made about other countries. But then linking aid to the type of government the recipient has doesn’t sound like a particularly nice idea either, and is also ethically questionable.

So in short, let’s close our eyes and help where we can.

I know you don't mean badly but it really boils my piss when I keep seeing this bit trotted out, especially in increasing numbers by borderline racist comments in the Guardian. India spends about $1b annually on it's space program. If it were to distribute that money to its population, everyone would get less than a dollar. It generates revenue for the country too and retains some of the country's best scientists and engineers! Their Mars rover cost about half a Paul Pogba.

Should India spend more on its public health? Undoubtedly. Currently India spends only about 3-4% of GDP on public health. I think the UK does around 8%. Even then, that 8% equates to about 140-150 billion on the NHS for less than a 10th of the population.

No one brings up NASA when they talk about the US's health problems! I don't think universal healthcare is in anyway a possibility in the near future but increased spending on public health by at least making available affordable insurance has to be a priority.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

With respect, that sounds a little bit like a propaganda sheet. "No problem here", "Nothing to see". "Everyone go home" etc. Let's hope the Indian army is up to it. Because the civilian authorities have fucked things up completely.

Calling in the army is no small thing. And if its being called on now, its only one thing - the local govt knows it fucked things up badly beyond their control.

Now after the army extinguishes the fire, the govt must investigate what went wrong because clearly the narrative from one side does not match the narrative from the other. Something went wrong somewhere and people have died. If this wasnt admist a pandemic, we would be calling it genocide.

As for the Oxygen shortage...

https://www.theweek.in/news/india/2021/04/18/amid-oxygen-shortage-health-ministry-says-33-psa-plants-built-out-of-162-sanctioned.html

On January 5, the Prime Ministers Office announced that the PM-CARES fund was allocating Rs 201.58 crore for installing 162 dedicated PSA medical oxygen generation plants in public health facilities. This cost includes Rs 137.33 crore for supply and commissioning and Rs 64.25 crore for a comprehensive annual maintenance contract, with procurement to be done by the Central Medical Supply Store (CMSS), an autonomous body under the Health Ministry. The plan encompassed 162 plants distributed across 32 states, with the most plants in states like Uttar Pradesh (14), Maharashtra (10), and Madhya Pradesh (.

India has been producing oxygen for domestic and international consumption for over 20-25 years now, to say the least. Some big hospitals (public and private) even produce their own oxygen. Granted they are mostly concentrated around the west coast, it does seem fishy that the issues stem up from logistical issues rather than production issues. Funds were allocated, 162 plants were sanctioned as early as January 2021. But only 33 were built. So questions need to be asked.

[Yorkykopite]

Isn't the Indian catastrophe due, in part, to Modi's destruction of universal health care. Or at least to the decision of wealthier Indians to abandon the public sector and seek private answers to health problems? The way the health care system has been described by those in the know over the last few days suggests it is like the Victorian 'health care' system in Britain.  Harley Street for the very rich and Poor Law hospitals (ie places to die in dirt and filth) for the bulk of the population. And very little in terms of front-line services.

I wonder if Covid will arouse the Indian democracy to act like a democracy after this is all over? The free-market, uber-capitalist, nationalist, racist, caste-conscious and mafia-like model of governance of Modi (am I being unfair?) has clearly shown to be lacking in the last few months.

A small footnote, but indicative I think. Watching the Test series on Channel 4 a few weeks ago it was repulsive to hear how the Indian commentators were so slavish and servile every time the cameras picked out Modi and his fat friends in the Modi Stadium (say no more) in Ahmedabad. I mentioned it at the time in the cricket thread (best thread on RAWK). Not one sarcastic, or slightly off, comment was made by the Indian commentators. That way lies despotism.

Let's hope the good folks of India are seeing the light now.

In the meantime the UK should help all it can, regardless of the hopeless heap of shite in charge.

[Sangria]

Isn't the Indian catastrophe due, in part, to Modi's destruction of universal health care. Or at least to the decision of wealthier Indians to abandon the public sector and seek private answers to health problems? The way the health care system has been described by those in the know over the last few days suggests it is like the Victorian 'health care' system in Britain.  Harley Street for the very rich and Poor Law hospitals (ie places to die in dirt and filth) for the bulk of the population. And very little in terms of front-line services.

I wonder if Covid will arouse the Indian democracy to act like a democracy after this is all over? The free-market, uber-capitalist, nationalist, racist, caste-conscious and mafia-like model of governance of Modi (am I being unfair?) has clearly shown to be lacking in the last few months.

A small footnote, but indicative I think. Watching the Test series on Channel 4 a few weeks ago it was repulsive to hear how the Indian commentators were so slavish and servile every time the cameras picked out Modi and his fat friends in the Modi Stadium (say no more) in Ahmedabad. I mentioned it at the time in the cricket thread (best thread on RAWK). Not one sarcastic, or slightly off, comment was made by the Indian commentators. That way lies despotism.

Let's hope the good folks of India are seeing the light now.

In the meantime the UK should help all it can, regardless of the hopeless heap of shite in charge.

Must you always bring Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson into every discussion?

[Garrus]

Isn't the Indian catastrophe due, in part, to Modi's destruction of universal health care. Or at least to the decision of wealthier Indians to abandon the public sector and seek private answers to health problems? The way the health care system has been described by those in the know over the last few days suggests it is like the Victorian 'health care' system in Britain.  Harley Street for the very rich and Poor Law hospitals (ie places to die in dirt and filth) for the bulk of the population. And very little in terms of front-line services.

I wonder if Covid will arouse the Indian democracy to act like a democracy after this is all over? The free-market, uber-capitalist, nationalist, racist, caste-conscious and mafia-like model of governance of Modi (am I being unfair?) has clearly shown to be lacking in the last few months.

A small footnote, but indicative I think. Watching the Test series on Channel 4 a few weeks ago it was repulsive to hear how the Indian commentators were so slavish and servile every time the cameras picked out Modi and his fat friends in the Modi Stadium (say no more) in Ahmedabad. I mentioned it at the time in the cricket thread (best thread on RAWK). Not one sarcastic, or slightly off, comment was made by the Indian commentators. That way lies despotism.

Let's hope the good folks of India are seeing the light now.

In the meantime the UK should help all it can, regardless of the hopeless heap of shite in charge.

Fair comment.

As for the first bit, I'd say the healthcare system has always been like this. There are government run hospitals that offer free/very subsidized services to poorer members of society but they're generally poorly funded and in a situation like this all the problems of that system are exacerbated. Private insurance is how people try to get by. General/routine healthcare is somewhat affordable for the middle classes but god forbid you get any serious ailment without insurance cover.

Unfortunately the problem with Indian politics is that there's no strong national opposition that can seemingly beat Modi. The sad part is, I'd say there's a decent chance that Modi's party could lose a lot of state elections (as demonstrated a few days ago) but all his losses are against regional parties who don't have countrywide support like his party does. In the last election his party won just 37% of the vote, a somewhat solidified opposition front could have made him sweat.

As for the last bit, it's been the case for some time now. People used to freely mock the previous PM but the same people clutch pearls if heaven forbid you mock the supreme leader. People do live in fear. They lock up people who criticise the government who are then dependent on the courts to free them. The funny bit is he's probably one of the more moderate faces of a party that has some serious lunatics ready to take up his mantle.

[Yorkykopite]

Fair comment.

As for the first bit, I'd say the healthcare system has always been like this. There are government run hospitals that offer free/very subsidized services to poorer members of society but they're generally poorly funded and in a situation like this all the problems of that system are exacerbated. Private insurance is how people try to get by. General/routine healthcare is somewhat affordable for the middle classes but god forbid you get any serious ailment without insurance cover.

Unfortunately the problem with Indian politics is that there's no strong national opposition that can seemingly beat Modi. The sad part is, I'd say there's a decent chance that Modi's party could lose a lot of state elections (as demonstrated a few days ago) but all his losses are against regional parties who don't have countrywide support like his party does. In the last election his party won just 37% of the vote, a somewhat solidified opposition front could have made him sweat.

As for the last bit, it's been the case for some time now. People used to freely mock the previous PM but the same people clutch pearls if heaven forbid you mock the supreme leader. People do live in fear. They lock up people who criticise the government who are then dependent on the courts to free them. The funny bit is he's probably one of the more moderate faces of a party that has some serious lunatics ready to take up his mantle.

Interesting, thanks.

Just on the last point it was also noticeable how prickly (and nationalistic) a number of the cricketing folks got about international attention being focussed on the fight of the Indian farmers. Tendulkar included. Essentially the message was 'keep your noses out! Only Indians are allowed to discuss Indian problems'. Hopefully, that attitude might recede a bit now.

It did make me wonder what Tendulkar and co would have said when India took up the fight against apartheid against South Africa in the 1960s.....

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Isn't the Indian catastrophe due, in part, to Modi's destruction of universal health care. Or at least to the decision of wealthier Indians to abandon the public sector and seek private answers to health problems? The way the health care system has been described by those in the know over the last few days suggests it is like the Victorian 'health care' system in Britain.  Harley Street for the very rich and Poor Law hospitals (ie places to die in dirt and filth) for the bulk of the population. And very little in terms of front-line services.

That has always been the case. The segmentation of the healthcare has existed ever since India got independence in 1947. The rich and the elite fly to the private hospitals while the middle class go to a general healthcare multispeciality ward and the lower class flock to the govt hospitals. That came up earlier because of the special care the people got earlier. Over the period of 50-60 years since then, the difference had been widening up a point that in the 2000s, it was a phrase on the streets that if you go to a govt. hospital, they are likely to auction one of your kidneys in the black market and you wouldnt even know about it. This discouraged the common public from seeking the care they deserved and needed because of this stigma.

Some states have been proactive in this regard to increase the attractiveness of the govt hospitals. My homestate are one of the forerunners in this regard. Since 2005, there has been a conscious effort to make people believe in govt facilities again. Some surgeries of the extreme and rare nature are only being carried out in the govt hospitals. It doesnt matter how rich you are. My parents got their covid vaccinations done in the beginning of March and my dad clicked a couple of pictures of the hospital interiors and the wards and rooms. They were as they would be at a hospital in Germany or US. And thats a govt. hospital. The doctors and nurses there were professional, courteous and took great care of all those they attended to - even those who walked in without a prior appointment.

I dont think he has been dismantling the healthcare the way the media has shown him to be. But he did remove some of the restrictions on this regard that made it easier for private hospitals to deny treatment if the patient cannot afford it. But on the other side, no patient can ever be denied treatment with a govt. hospital. No matter what the illness. So yeah he did create some enemies on that regard because of the stigma associated with private and govt hospitals as people thought they would be denied quality healthcare. But only half of it was true.

I wonder if Covid will arouse the Indian democracy to act like a democracy after this is all over? The free-market, uber-capitalist, nationalist, racist, caste-conscious and mafia-like model of governance of Modi (am I being unfair?) has clearly shown to be lacking in the last few months.

Thats a fair evaluation of his governance as far as the capitalist/nationalist/free market is concerned. mafia? I am not sure. The cadres of his party have been known to be goons and thugs, if that makes sense. So many people think thats how they operate. And in some cases they do. But it cannot be denied that the critisism of certain India-first policies have been unfair at best and unnecessary at worst. Apple and Samsung opened their smartphone manufacturing plants in India after his Make in India initiative. Various car manufacturers have setup shops domestically. Suppliers export Made in India products to SE Asia in the Automotive and Shipping industries. So there has been a lot more progress than he gets the credit for.

His domestic policies have been appaling at best. His Hindi as a national language fiasco (India does NOT have a national language. It has 16 official languages), demonitization, Citizens register, farmers protest have all been pathetically handled. While he might've had good intentions with some of them, they surely didnt translate well into real life and most certainly did not help to abate people's genuine fears and/or concerns. If I a PR for this govt. I would be questioning my life choices by now. What good is a policy, if its not communicated properly and efficiently especially when you know you need people's support? I guess what I am trying to say is, for India economically, he has been decent. I would give him a B- strictly because of my association with Automotive and Manufacturing industry. Domestic policies is a unquestionable D- because the mentioned reasons and I feel I am being generous.

Let's hope the good folks of India are seeing the light now.

In the meantime the UK should help all it can, regardless of the hopeless heap of shite in charge.

I hope so too mate. I hope so too.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

The funny bit is he's probably one of the more moderate faces of a party that has some serious lunatics ready to take up his mantle.

Whom are you referring to here? Yogi Adityanath? Thats just one of them. Or do you have more in mind.

There are several liberal BJP PM quality candidates who are more secular and believe in inclusivity than that tosser.

[Garrus]

Interesting, thanks.

Just on the last point it was also noticeable how prickly (and nationalistic) a number of the cricketing folks got about international attention being focussed on the fight of the Indian farmers. Tendulkar included. Essentially the message was 'keep your noses out! Only Indians are allowed to discuss Indian problems'. Hopefully, that attitude might recede a bit now.

It did make me wonder what Tendulkar and co would have said when India took up the fight against apartheid against South Africa in the 1960s.....

Unfortunately, India is a very flawed democracy. I have a lot of sympathy for those in the public eye who choose to keep mum and go about their daily business. With authoritarian parties like the BJP, there's a very dedicated cadre of foot soldiers who are happy to do the dirty work and intimidate people who don't tow the party line. I don't think many of these cricketers are overly nationalistic or ardent supporters of the likes of Modi. They just do the bare minimum to avoid making daily life a living hell for those closest to them which I can sympathise with.

[Garrus]

Whom are you referring to here? Yogi Adityanath? Thats just one of them. Or do you have more in mind.

There are several liberal BJP PM quality candidates who are more secular and believe in inclusivity than that tosser.

Who else? He seems to be the one best positioned for a PM run but hopefully his disastrous handling of the crisis leads to a defeat in UP next year and the end of his political career.

I don't know about that, man. It seems to be the norm for their present candidates to have to lean in heavily to their whole Hindutvaadi to stand a chance with their electorate these days. I don't think that's going to change going forward.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Who else? He seems to be the one best positioned for a PM run but hopefully his disastrous handling of the crisis leads to a defeat in UP next year and the end of his political career.

I don't know about that, man. It seems to be the norm for their present candidates to have to lean in heavily to their whole Hindutvaadi to stand a chance with their electorate these days. I don't think that's going to change going forward.

To be honest it does seem like that and I am with you. But I think that the hardcore Hindutva policies of Yogi would be the exact reason why he wont be the candidate. Far too controversial and far too non-secular and non-inclusive. Atleast thats how I see it. As for me, the next election will be either Modi or Amit Shah. He is far more subtle in his hindutva policies than Modi and definitely more than Yogi. Failing that, Fadvanis, Gadkari, Goyal and even an outsider like Biplab Deb. I dont want Yogi anywhere near the helm to be honest. And then Suryah and Annamalai as the next generation of leaders.

[Garrus]

To be honest it does seem like that and I am with you. But I think that the hardcore Hindutva policies of Yogi would be the exact reason why he wont be the candidate. Far too controversial and far too non-secular and non-inclusive. Atleast thats how I see it. As for me, the next election will be either Modi or Amit Shah. He is far more subtle in his hindutva policies than Modi and definitely more than Yogi. Failing that, Fadvanis, Gadkari, Goyal and even an outsider like Biplab Deb. I dont want Yogi anywhere near the helm to be honest. And then Suryah and Annamalai as the next generation of leaders.

Modi/Shah will definitely be there next time.

Surya is a nutter and an internet troll bot come to life. The others aren't going to attract anywhere near the followers like the cult of Modi so fingers crossed that gives the opposition some fighting chance!

[west_london_red]

Unfortunately, India is a very flawed democracy. I have a lot of sympathy for those in the public eye who choose to keep mum and go about their daily business. With authoritarian parties like the BJP, there's a very dedicated cadre of foot soldiers who are happy to do the dirty work and intimidate people who don't tow the party line. I don't think many of these cricketers are overly nationalistic or ardent supporters of the likes of Modi. They just do the bare minimum to avoid making daily life a living hell for those closest to them which I can sympathise with.

Thats a huge part of it. Being Punjabi there was a lot of criticism on social media of cricketers who took part in the orchestrated Twitter comments as well as the Bollywood stars who mostly kept quiet but little understanding of why? The Bollywood stars, especially the Muslim ones have to walk a tightrope at the best of times and coming out in support of the farmers would have just put a target on their own backs, so they did what was right for them and their own and stayed quiet. Would have been nice if they supported the cause but completely understand why they didn’t.

[Nobby Reserve]

Going to upset some people I suspect but I’d find it incredibly difficult to help countries like India and Brazil when I look at their leaders and governments, that’s not to say we shouldn’t help but on a personal level it’s with gritted teeth.

And both India and Brazil have got enormous levels of wealth inequality.

India isn't short of billionaires and multi-millionaires.


From Oxfam:

The top 10% of the Indian population holds 77% of the total national wealth. 73% of the wealth generated in 2017 went to the richest 1%, while 67 million Indians who comprise the poorest half of the population saw only a 1% increase in their wealth.

There are 119 billionaires in India. Their number has increased from only 9 in 2000 to 101 in 2017. Between 2018 and 2022, India is estimated to produce 70 new millionaires every day.

Billionaires' fortunes increased by almost 10 times over a decade and their total wealth is higher than the entire Union budget of India for the fiscal year 2018-19, which was at INR 24422 billion.

https://www.oxfam.org/en/india-extreme-inequality-numbers#:~:text=The%20top%2010%25%20of%20the,1%25%20increase%20in%20their%20wealth.&text=There%20are%20119%20billionaires%20in%20India.

Of course, they are well looked-after by the far-right scumbag Modi and his vile regime.

But before asking for international help, they should be taxing these rich scum more.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

But before asking for international help, they should be taxing these rich scum more.

Its not that simple. If you tax them in India, they leave to tax free havens.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-56659615

...
These claims are borne out by figures from the wall-street investment bank Morgan Stanley. A 2018 bank report found that 23,000 Indian millionaires had left the country since 2014.
...

[ScouserAtHeart]

Taxing the rich doesn't work in any country.

For a country of 1.3 billion, the number of tax payers is less than 15 million.

[Commie Bobbie]

Taxing the rich doesn't work in any country.

For a country of 1.3 billion, the number of tax payers is less than 15 million.

Seriously? That is absurd.

[ScouserAtHeart]

I mean, it's not as bad as it sounds. People who make less than 250,000 rupees a year don't have to pay income tax. That would cover hundreds of millions of people, sadly. But there's definitely more than just 15 million people in the country who make more than that.

[west_london_red]

Seriously? That is absurd.

That’s specific to income tax I believe, and while I do not know the exact number I know the number of people paying income tax is in the low single digit percentage.