Topic: Five English clubs named in ‘European Super League’ plan for 2021

[Coolie High]

As a foreigner, I find this pretty amusing, to be honest. None of the players you listed above was considered World class outside of England. And Vidic was by far the best central defender at Man Utd, not Ferdinand. But, I understand that the narrative of the English media has been such for the past 30 years, that the fooball fans eventually go with it, and completely forget about the likes of Beckham or Owen, who have failed abroad ...

Ferdinand was better, bringing it closer to home we used to exploit Vidic lack of pace anytime we played United according to Gerrards words it was one of the main focuses of our pre game plan, exploit Vidics biggest vulnerability which was his lack of mobility when dealing with the likes of Torres Gerrard and commission who were pretty fast.

Away from that Rio was a better footballer also, Vidic better in the air, both world class. Neither Beckham or Owen failed at Madrid, the only failure was Woodgate actually, in terms of British imports Bale suffered there also and lest not forget Macca who was also a success.

[tubby]

Ashley Cole was the most consistent English player of that generation and was absolutely a world class left back.

[Coolie High]

Ahead of Fabio Cannavaro and Carles Puyol, the real World class central defenders of that era? Like Ferdinand, Terry was not even the best central defender at his club. It was Ricardo Carvalho, who was the real leader of that Chelsea defence.

The two you mentioned were actually pretty close to Terry in quality, Puyol was also stylistically a Spanish Terry in some respects, if you had mention Nesta you may have a point but generally your takes are numerous.

[PeterTheRed ...]

The two you mentioned were actually pretty close to Terry in quality, Puyol was also stylistically a Spanish Terry in some respects, if you had mention Nesta you may have a point but generally your takes are numerous.

Fabio Cannavaro and Carles Puyol close to Jonh Terry in quality? Now, that is a good one 

[WEST HAM PAUL]

Saw this thread being posted in again

I thought they must of named West Ham as one of the “Five Clubs “ now 

[Something Worse]

Saw this thread being posted in again

I thought they must of named West Ham as one of the “Five Clubs “ now 

  

[FiSh77]

Saw this thread being posted in again

I thought they must of named West Ham as one of the “Five Clubs “ now 

Has Moyeseh got the champagne and cardigan out again?

[Chris~]

Ahead of Fabio Cannavaro and Carles Puyol, the real World class central defenders of that era? Like Ferdinand, Terry was not even the best central defender at his club. It was Ricardo Carvalho, who was the real leader of that Chelsea defence.

Yep. I don't even think it's that good a system for saying who is world class, but given they are not solely voted for by UK media and yet still appeared multiple times I'd say it proves it wasn't just the UK media who rated those player so highly. Carvalho I don't think ever appeared in any of those lists,or got Ballon d'Or votes after 2004. So if you want say in your opinion they were better players then fine,but if you want to keep up this myth about no one outside of England rating them provide some evidence.

[ScouserAtHeart]

Premier League chief executive hits out at 'destructive' super league plans

Masters says league will not shrink to allow more European ties
European Leagues head has concerns over Uefa expansion plan

The Premier League’s chief executive, Richard Masters, has condemned plans for a breakaway European Super League as “destructive to the value of domestic football across Europe”.

In his strongest intervention yet to the €6bn plan, which would see 15 founding clubs receiving between €100m and €350m for joining, Masters said he was intrinsically opposed to a system where the battle for promotion and relegation barely matters.

“Any proposal that I’ve read about or heard about doesn’t have access via domestic leagues, or if it does, it is at the bottom end of the pyramid,” he told the FT Business of Football summit. “So that will be destructive to the value of domestic football across Europe, not just the Premier League.”

Masters also confirmed he was against a separate Uefa plan to reform the Champions League – which would see it grow from 32 to 36 teams and the number of fixtures rise from 125 to 225 – and rejected the idea that the Premier League could slim down to free space for more European games. “The English football calendar is jam-packed,” he said. “I think for the foreseeable future, the Premier League is a 20-club competition.”

However Uefa’s proposals for an “Swiss model” revamp of the Champions League were given a warmer welcome by the president of the European Leagues, Lars-Christer Olsson – albeit with several caveats. But Olsson warned Uefa that if it did increase the Champions League to 36 teams, more domestic champions must be included rather than Premier League teams.

“We would prefer champions from Scotland, Denmark or Switzerland, for example, to qualify rather than team number six from England or Spain,” he said.

While not rejecting Uefa’s proposals out of hand, Olsson also said the plan to have four more exclusive Champions League ‘match weeks’ would hurt the 1,000 clubs not in Europe who would be unable to play matches and “cannibalise” domestic TV revenue.

However he said the current system was also unworkable and would continue to grow the financial gap in European club football. “It will also prevent the free and proper competition for the titles in the European competitions, as well as in the domestic competitions, and this cannot continue,” he added. “So give us the time needed for a proper process to involve all stakeholders and make the right decision for the benefit of all.”

Meanwhile Masters appeared bullish about a domestic TV rights deal for the Premier League between 2022-2025, which is expected to be concluded this year, saying he did not expect a big drop from the current Ł5bn deal between Sky, BT and Amazon. “I accept that we’re in a challenging environment,” he said. “I don’t accept that things have plateaued or that we’re looking at a downward curve.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/feb/18/premier-league-chief-executive-european-super-league-plans

It's like every few weeks, someone new comes out and says they're against it. The more people talk, the more I'm convinced this proposal is more serious than in earlier years

The new TV rights deal is what it'll come down to IMO. Clubs need the money more than ever before now.

[CraigDS]

At the end of the day it doesn’t work without the PL teams IMO. And the PL teams will have no interest in moving from the PL whilst the TV income here is so high and not falling like a stone. Not when on top of the huge PL income they also get the big CL income.

I see nothing to suggest any super league would trump PL + CL income together.

[Something Worse]

At the end of the day it doesn’t work without the PL teams IMO. And the PL teams will have no interest in moving from the PL whilst the TV income here is so high and not falling like a stone. Not when on top of the huge PL income they also get the big CL income.

I see nothing to suggest any super league would trump PL + CL income together.

The big clubs want the share of the tv money they bring in. That is always going to be the friction in this.

[ScouserAtHeart]

At the end of the day it doesn’t work without the PL teams IMO. And the PL teams will have no interest in moving from the PL whilst the TV income here is so high and not falling like a stone. Not when on top of the huge PL income they also get the big CL income.

I see nothing to suggest any super league would trump PL + CL income together.

What if the new PL TV rights deal is quite a bit lesser than the current one? I'm not saying it's likely but it's not as impossible as it might have been a few years ago

[TepidT2O]

What if the new PL TV rights deal is quite a bit lesser than the current one? I'm not saying it's likely but it's not as impossible as it might have been a few years ago

It’s highly likely

[PeterTheRed ...]

At the end of the day it doesn’t work without the PL teams IMO. And the PL teams will have no interest in moving from the PL whilst the TV income here is so high and not falling like a stone. Not when on top of the huge PL income they also get the big CL income.

I see nothing to suggest any super league would trump PL + CL income together.

Any Super League TV deal will guarantee more money than the current PL and CL TV money combined. The PL TV deal is big because of the big clubs, not because too many people are paying to watch Everton or West Ham ...

[Dave McCoy]

It’s highly likely

Depends on what you define as "lesser".  Personally I would expect it to be flat.

Any Super League TV deal will guarantee more money than the current PL and CL TV money combined. The PL TV deal is big because of the big clubs, not because too many people are paying to watch Everton or West Ham ...

If this was true then you'd see all the PL teams pushing for this to happen or using it as a way to bludgeon the other 14 into a more favorable deal.  Since this isn't happening in either case then I don't believe that is true.

[rob1966]

At the end of the day it doesn’t work without the PL teams IMO. And the PL teams will have no interest in moving from the PL whilst the TV income here is so high and not falling like a stone. Not when on top of the huge PL income they also get the big CL income.

I see nothing to suggest any super league would trump PL + CL income together.

As I've said before, remove us and the Mancs from the PL and the worldwide interest in the league goes (might have to add Arsenal due to their popularity in Nigeria) and so does the money.

I don't actually want us to break from the PL, but if the League itself, the other clubs, Refs and media continue to show us so little respect, I wouldn't have an issue if we said get to fuck and took our ball home.

[Something Worse]

Depends on what you define as "lesser".  Personally I would expect it to be flat.

If this was true then you'd see all the PL teams pushing for this to happen or using it as a way to bludgeon the other 14 into a more favorable deal.  Since this isn't happening in either case then I don't believe that is true.

Didnt they just try that a few months ago? Project Big Picture.

[PeterTheRed ...]

If this was true then you'd see all the PL teams pushing for this to happen or using it as a way to bludgeon the other 14 into a more favorable deal.  Since this isn't happening in either case then I don't believe that is true.

The biggest clubs in the PL (LFC and Man Utd) are the ones pushing for reforms in the current PL TV deal. Hardly a surprise, considering that these two clubs are generating most of the TV revenue. I have no doubt that LFC and Man Utd will be the founding members of the future Super League. Arsenal will probably be the third English club, from the London market. Man City, Chelsea and Tottenham are not that important ...

[Dave McCoy]

Didnt they just try that a few months ago? Project Big Picture.

It's similar but not exactly the same.  PBP was about in what circumstances the PL would bail out the rest of the football pyramid which funnily enough never came about like the UK government said it would.  There was no leaving for the Super League as part of that plan.

[Something Worse]

It's similar but not exactly the same.  PBP was about in what circumstances the PL would bail out the rest of the football pyramid which funnily enough never came about like the UK government said it would.  There was no leaving for the Super League as part of that plan.

No, but it was them trying to bludgeon through a more favorable deal, wasn't it?

[Dave McCoy]

No, but it was them trying to bludgeon through a more favorable deal, wasn't it?

If that the way you want to look at it, sure.  I look at it more as if you want the PL to give X then the EFL/FA need to give Y.  PBP basically guaranteed the financial viability of the EFL pyramid and personally I think it was a good deal for all parties sans the two teams that would be kicked out.

The Super League, nobody is gaining but the teams that leave for the Super League and even that I don't agree with Peter in that I don't believe there is more TV money in it for PL teams as it currently stands.

[Something Worse]

If that the way you want to look at it, sure.  I look at it more as if you want the PL to give X then the EFL/FA need to give Y.  PBP basically guaranteed the financial viability of the EFL pyramid and personally I think it was a good deal for all parties sans the two teams that would be kicked out.

The Super League, nobody is gaining but the teams that leave for the Super League and even that I don't agree with Peter in that I don't believe there is more TV money in it for PL teams as it currently stands.

Fair enough

[Skeeve]

Depends on what you define as "lesser".  Personally I would expect it to be flat.

If this was true then you'd see all the PL teams pushing for this to happen or using it as a way to bludgeon the other 14 into a more favorable deal.  Since this isn't happening in either case then I don't believe that is true.

This next deal will probably be flat as far as the total, but they'll end up having to hand over more games to get the same amount of money.

There's no real rush for the big clubs to push too hard with this stuff, it probably makes far more sense for them to wait and see the eventual post-covid situation before pushing ahead one way or the other.

[BoRed]

Masters also confirmed he was against a separate Uefa plan to reform the Champions League – which would see it grow from 32 to 36 teams and the number of fixtures rise from 125 to 225 – and rejected the idea that the Premier League could slim down to free space for more European games. “The English football calendar is jam-packed,” he said. “I think for the foreseeable future, the Premier League is a 20-club competition.”

However Uefa’s proposals for an “Swiss model” revamp of the Champions League were given a warmer welcome by the president of the European Leagues, Lars-Christer Olsson – albeit with several caveats. But Olsson warned Uefa that if it did increase the Champions League to 36 teams, more domestic champions must be included rather than Premier League teams.

Can't see a breakaway super league any time soon, but UEFA's plan will probably materialise.

[PeterTheRed ...]

The Super League, nobody is gaining but the teams that leave for the Super League and even that I don't agree with Peter in that I don't believe there is more TV money in it for PL teams as it currently stands.

In my humble opinion, only 4 British clubs could benefit from the establishment of the Super League, and the Super League would benefit from them: LFC, Man Utd, Arsenal and Celtic. These closed Super Leagues function in a bit different way, compared to the domestic and the European competitions that we are used to. Apart from the big stadium and the big local fan base, the clubs in this type of a league require a bigger regional catchment area, or a market, as it is called. London is big enough to carry 2 clubs, but I am not sure that Chelsea or Tottenham are important to the planners of the Super League, as well as Man City. For them, it will be more important to include the likes of Ajax (with the Dutch market), Benfica (with the Portuguese market) or Anderlecht (with the Belgian market) ...

[Samie]

Looking good these day's isn't it lads?

[CraigDS]

Looking good these day's isn't it lads?

Can we make sure there are no English refs?

[Samie]

They'd all fail a BMI the for fucks sakes.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

As I've said, before I've always been agains this idea, but the Premier League is so clearly bent that I can't wait for us to leave.

As someone has said, make sure that only the best referees are invited which means no English referees obviously.

[tubby]

They'd all fail a BMI the for fucks sakes.

Hey, nothing wrong with that.

[Coolie High]

As I've said, before I've always been agains this idea, but the Premier League is so clearly bent that I can't wait for us to leave.

As someone has said, make sure that only the best referees are invited which means no English referees obviously.

And why would a European super league be any less bent?

[Samie]

Refs on the continent are better and have been for a while .Also we as a club are shown far more respect on the continent than this godforsaken land.

[rob1966]

And why would a European super league be any less bent?

How many Manchester born referees will there be?

[Kekule]

How many Manchester born referees will there be?

Well even if, somehow, there are one or two there is zero chance of them being allowed to ref a Manchester based side, or us. They will be nowhere near English sides.

Not unless the European equivalent of PGMOL decide to appoint Riley to head of their organisation.  And, even for a man who has spent his entire life falling upwards, surely that’s a bridge too far?

[BarryCrocker]

As I've said, before I've always been agains this idea, but the Premier League is so clearly bent that I can't wait for us to leave.

Yep, they're all getting their orders from 5G.

Don't you think a club that turns over Ł500m would be able to put together their own investigation to prove there is corruption?

The similarity between this 'belief' and wider conspiracy theories like 5G, 911, Covid-19, Chemtrails, etc, etc is that no matter how much money the people who 'believe' in them have they've never been able to funnel their money into to proving them correct.

With bent referees. There'd be some sort of communication, financial transaction, measured trend that could support accusations.

What there is, is bad and poor refereeing decisions. Just like bad and poor decisions by players who allow someone to get in behind them on a through ball, accidentally trip a player in a box or allow a goal on the near post.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Yep, they're all getting their orders from 5G.

Don't you think a club that turns over Ł500m would be able to put together their own investigation to prove there is corruption?

The similarity between this 'belief' and wider conspiracy theories like 5G, 911, Covid-19, Chemtrails, etc, etc is that no matter how much money the people who 'believe' in them have they've never been able to funnel their money into to proving them correct.

With bent referees. There'd be some sort of communication, financial transaction, measured trend that could support accusations.

What there is, is bad and poor refereeing decisions. Just like bad and poor decisions by players who allow someone to get in behind them on a through ball, accidentally trip a player in a box or allow a goal on the near post.

OK let's go with that.

Have a think about how many 'controversial' decisions there have been in English competition involving Liverpool.

Once you have determined that, how many of those 'controversial' decisions have gone for Liverpool?

How many have gone against?

How does that contrast with the other 'Controversial' decisions across the league by team?

[BarryCrocker]

OK let's go with that.

Have a think about how many 'controversial' decisions there have been in English competition involving Liverpool.

Once you have determined that, how many of those 'controversial' decisions have gone for Liverpool?

How many have gone against?

How does that contrast with the other 'Controversial' decisions across the league by team?

I don't need to determine anything. You're the one making an accusation and like most conspiracy theories your lacking facts and numbers.

[RedSince86]

I'm all for this.

Get it done Mr Henry.

[Coolie High]

It won’t be fun if you have to play PSG and Madrid every week, some of you are crazy.

[I've been a good boy]

Rather play PSG and Madrid every week than get fucked over by incompetent English "refs" on a weekly basis