Author Topic: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat  (Read 87879 times)

Offline classycarra

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2018, 04:50:42 pm »
Don't bet your trousers on it.


(I wonder what the total value of donations to the Tory Party made by Carillion, its shareholders and/or executives has been...)

A quick google suggests none - though I don't know people's names

Offline cdav

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2018, 06:21:12 pm »
Six to eight months ago we couldn't get a credit rating on Carillion. Our insurance firm advised us we wouldn't be covered if we took on any work with them.

The alarm bells were surely going at a far higher level than I operate at!

Wouldn't be surprised if the government didn't want to be seen to be the ones pulling the plug on the company so buried their heads in the hope it would resolve itself. Bad politics to put a company employing tens of thousands, even if it is required.

Its the lack of a plan for the liquidation that was well flagged risk to the government that shows how incompetent they are.

Offline Elmo!

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2018, 06:29:06 pm »
Wouldn't be surprised if the government didn't want to be seen to be the ones pulling the plug on the company so buried their heads in the hope it would resolve itself. Bad politics to put a company employing tens of thousands, even if it is required.

Its the lack of a plan for the liquidation that was well flagged risk to the government that shows how incompetent they are.

It seems the Scottish government has been making contingency plans since last July... why weren't the Tories doing the same?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-42687014

Offline 12C

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2018, 06:36:31 pm »
It seems the Scottish government has been making contingency plans since last July... why weren't the Tories doing the same?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-42687014

It also seems the bosses at Carrilion have been making plans since the summer, plans that secured their money first.
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Offline Machae

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2018, 09:04:43 pm »
Crooks at the highest level

Offline Babel Time

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #45 on: January 15, 2018, 09:47:06 pm »
It seems the Scottish government has been making contingency plans since last July... why weren't the Tories doing the same?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-42687014

They were too busy creating Brexit industry impact reports. ;)
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Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #46 on: January 16, 2018, 11:04:55 am »
Carillion: Support for small firms ends in 48 hours

Quote
Firms working for failed construction giant Carillion on purely private sector deals will only have two days of government support, Cabinet Office Minister David Lidington has warned.

...

But the head of the Federation of Small Businesses said thousands of jobs and livelihoods were now at risk because those firms would be at the back of the queue for payment.

Mike Cherry said it was a situation made worse because Carillion extended its payment schedule to suppliers last year.

"These unpaid bills may well go back several months," he continued. "I wrote to Carillion back in July last year to express concern after hearing from FSB members that the company was making small suppliers wait 120 days to be paid."

Trade body Build UK estimates that between 25,000 and 30,000 businesses are owed money by Carillion.

It said that in the past, when other big contractors have failed, around 18% of businesses who were creditors did not survive the next five years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42695661
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 11:09:50 am by ShakaHislop »

Offline zabadoh

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #47 on: January 18, 2018, 05:09:02 am »
At least they finished our new main stand last summer. I wonder if they lost money on that?
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Offline FlashingBlade

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #48 on: January 19, 2018, 04:36:10 pm »
At least they finished our new main stand last summer. I wonder if they lost money on that?

It was a fixed priced contract and they reaslised they couldtnt make it work...eirther Liverpool coughed up more cash or corners hdd to be be cut.

Look at the public realm on the orignal approved design and look what has been built...high quality public realm materials replaced with bog standard stuff.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #49 on: January 19, 2018, 04:37:51 pm »
It was a fixed priced contract and they reaslised they couldtnt make it work...eirther Liverpool coughed up more cash or corners hdd to be be cut.

Look at the public realm on the orignal approved design and look what has been built...high quality public realm materials replaced with bog standard stuff.

You got some examples of this?

Offline Trada

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #50 on: January 19, 2018, 04:42:36 pm »
It was a fixed priced contract and they reaslised they couldtnt make it work...eirther Liverpool coughed up more cash or corners hdd to be be cut.

Look at the public realm on the orignal approved design and look what has been built...high quality public realm materials replaced with bog standard stuff.

This is an interesting watch from at least 4 years ago and they do a big piece about the Liverpool hospital contract documents had been doctored.

And I wonder if they sorted the school out every single light had to be kept on 24/7 because they didn't fit light switches.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/32AglebZSZQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/32AglebZSZQ</a>
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 04:49:01 pm by Trada »
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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #51 on: January 19, 2018, 04:47:32 pm »
It was a fixed priced contract and they reaslised they couldtnt make it work...eirther Liverpool coughed up more cash or corners hdd to be be cut.

Look at the public realm on the orignal approved design and look what has been built...high quality public realm materials replaced with bog standard stuff.

It doesn't work like that.
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Offline .adam

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #53 on: January 31, 2018, 04:05:36 pm »
Is this a similar scenario to Carillion?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jan/31/shares-in-uk-government-contractor-capita-plunge-40-after-profit-warning

"The group warned that underlying profits in 2018 were likely to be between Ł270m and Ł300m".

Offline 12C

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #54 on: January 31, 2018, 05:53:46 pm »
Is this a similar scenario to Carillion?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jan/31/shares-in-uk-government-contractor-capita-plunge-40-after-profit-warning

Having seen them (and others) cock up govenment contracts for many years, and be punished by the award of even more lucrative contracts, I am not surprised. These big service companies bid for contracts without the people or systems to deliver them, and then run around trying to recruit staff and only then try to put some sort of systems in place and then miraculously always seem to overrun at which point govt bail them out.
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Offline Trada

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #55 on: January 31, 2018, 06:34:13 pm »
"The group warned that underlying profits in 2018 were likely to be between Ł270m and Ł300m".

I was reading that they are now worth Ł1.2b and they have debts of Ł1.1b

I guess what might be bad for them after Carillion went down the Tories may be weary of giving them new contracts like they did to them.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2018, 06:38:35 pm by Trada »
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Offline Nobby Reserve

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #56 on: February 1, 2018, 03:40:17 pm »
There are problems with:

Capita
Interserve
Mitie
Laing O'Rourke

All sort of related, in that they have, with hindsight (or as a deliberate tactic), underbid to win construction contracts, then been pinged with huge penalties for missing deadlines (by employing too few staff/subcontractors or simply getting the scope of the development wrong)

Expect to see at least CVA's before the end of this quarter for:

New Look
Maplin Electronics
Jamie's Italian

Possibly (more long-shot) also at some point this year:

Poundland/Harvey's/Bensons (as a fallout from the Steinhoff accounting discrepancies)
Mothercare
Carpetright
House of Fraser
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Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #57 on: February 1, 2018, 04:36:28 pm »
Are you some kind of retail analyst?

Didn’t realise new look were so much in the shit, think house of Fraser are more shifting to online so more likely to boost click and collect which means less retail space?

Offline Nobby Reserve

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #58 on: February 1, 2018, 09:19:15 pm »
Are you some kind of retail analyst?

Didn’t realise new look were so much in the shit, think house of Fraser are more shifting to online so more likely to boost click and collect which means less retail space?

I work in Trade Credit Insurance.

Had a recent meeting with some senior risk underwriters at one of the biggest credit insurers to get feedback on current 'hot' risks.

New Look is interesting. They had a good and effective business model, but changed their approach (and buying teams). My eldest daughter talks about how it went much more expensive, full of "Next type of stuff" when before it was cheap & cheerful - and popular with young people. More expensive, often more 'mature' product offering and they decimated their customer bedrock. They apparently had warehouses rammed with product that wasn't shifting following this change of tack, and ended up heavily-discounting. They've done a re-think and reverted to more like their old model, but the new lines will only really begin to properly feed in from autumn/winter 18/19. The question is whether they have the cashflow/access to funding to last till fortunes improve.

With House of Fraser, they were late to the party with an online offering, which wasn't great when they did launch it. They spent a lot redesigning their digital presence a year or two ago, but  it was very poor. Last year, they were the only major retailer that saw their online sales contract (by 9%) - and this from an already low point. Their premises are generally not an ideal design for modern retail, and they did a sale-and-rent-back arrangement on a chunk of their estate. They've already written to landlords to try to negotiate rent reductions. There's also some doubt about how much support their Chinese owners would/could be able to provide. Xmas trading figures poor - decreased footfall & sales.
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Offline Statto Red

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #59 on: February 2, 2018, 06:43:56 am »
There are problems with:

Capita
Interserve
Mitie
Laing O'Rourke

All sort of related, in that they have, with hindsight (or as a deliberate tactic), underbid to win construction contracts, then been pinged with huge penalties for missing deadlines (by employing too few staff/subcontractors or simply getting the scope of the development wrong)

Expect to see at least CVA's before the end of this quarter for:

New Look
Maplin Electronics
Jamie's Italian

Possibly (more long-shot) also at some point this year:

Poundland/Harvey's/Bensons (as a fallout from the Steinhoff accounting discrepancies)
Mothercare
Carpetright
House of Fraser

Speaking of Maplin, i don't get how they're still around, as you walk into there store look at the prices then walk out again without buying anything, can get stuff they sell much cheaper online likes of Amazon.
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Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #60 on: February 2, 2018, 07:58:59 am »
I work in Trade Credit Insurance.

Had a recent meeting with some senior risk underwriters at one of the biggest credit insurers to get feedback on current 'hot' risks.

New Look is interesting. They had a good and effective business model, but changed their approach (and buying teams). My eldest daughter talks about how it went much more expensive, full of "Next type of stuff" when before it was cheap & cheerful - and popular with young people. More expensive, often more 'mature' product offering and they decimated their customer bedrock. They apparently had warehouses rammed with product that wasn't shifting following this change of tack, and ended up heavily-discounting. They've done a re-think and reverted to more like their old model, but the new lines will only really begin to properly feed in from autumn/winter 18/19. The question is whether they have the cashflow/access to funding to last till fortunes improve.

With House of Fraser, they were late to the party with an online offering, which wasn't great when they did launch it. They spent a lot redesigning their digital presence a year or two ago, but  it was very poor. Last year, they were the only major retailer that saw their online sales contract (by 9%) - and this from an already low point. Their premises are generally not an ideal design for modern retail, and they did a sale-and-rent-back arrangement on a chunk of their estate. They've already written to landlords to try to negotiate rent reductions. There's also some doubt about how much support their Chinese owners would/could be able to provide. Xmas trading figures poor - decreased footfall & sales.
cheers - always had new look down as somewhere between h and m and primark in terms of quality, also the likes of boohoo and missguided have probably killed that business, suppose when a well established company tries to make their stuff more expensive it doesn’t end well (LG and Samsung are the only two I can think of that have been able to do that) and it’s a bit of a desperate move, so taking that into account it’s no shock they’re in the shit, good thing at least for their head office staff is they moved to London years ago so they can probably find it easier to get another job compared to somewhere round Southampton I think they were based

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #61 on: February 2, 2018, 07:59:40 am »
Speaking of Maplin, i don't get how they're still around, as you walk into there store look at the prices then walk out again without buying anything, can get stuff they sell much cheaper online likes of Amazon.
theyre always dead when I go to one, last time I went to one they didn’t have what I wanted so got it off ao

Offline Peabee

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #62 on: February 5, 2018, 11:38:27 am »
It appears they’re announcing daily job losses in the hundreds.
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Offline The Gulleysucker

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #63 on: February 5, 2018, 11:45:41 am »
theyre always dead when I go to one, last time I went to one they didn’t have what I wanted so got it off ao

I haven't purchased anything from Maplin for a good many years.

I never went into any of their shops, didn't even know they had high street outlets, but Maplin certainly used to be very helpful on the phone in pre-Internet days though I only ever used them for electronic components and always considered them as a bit of a poor mans and limited stock RS (Radio Spares) though certainly they were a lot better than Radio Shack/Tandy (are they still going?) for components here in the UK.

But the Web and places like Ebay has changed it all now and any electronic components I want these days, I tend to order direct from China, they are usually a fraction of any UK suppliers price and often with exceptionally rapid China Post delivery that puts some tardy UK sellers to shame.

Not that I ever will, but I imagine if I ever wanted bulk quantities of components ie manufacturing level, I expect I'd go to Alibaba.
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Offline mulfella

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #64 on: February 6, 2018, 05:37:31 pm »
Having seen them (and others) cock up govenment contracts for many years, and be punished by the award of even more lucrative contracts, I am not surprised. These big service companies bid for contracts without the people or systems to deliver them, and then run around trying to recruit staff and only then try to put some sort of systems in place and then miraculously always seem to overrun at which point govt bail them out.

I am currently contracting for a unnamed company like this. They are bidding for a piece of work, for which they will have to employ hundreds of staff, and will need an IT system, training, documentation etc put in place before it can go live.

They haven't even got a full spec yet, nor Client agreement, it's all based on assumptions and previous experience.

Current go live, start of April.

For clarity though, it's not a Govt contract, it's private, so there won't be a bail out.
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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #65 on: February 28, 2018, 10:24:15 am »
Looks like Nobby was correct with Maplin

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43219651

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #66 on: February 28, 2018, 11:02:20 am »
Toys R Us too. I remember as a kid trips there were pretty special, and I spent a bit of time stacking shelves there so it's a little sad, but wholly expected. We used to laugh at the time how outdated everything around us seemed.
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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #68 on: February 28, 2018, 11:30:15 am »
Are some of these businesses hitting the wall a consequence of Brexit, or just poor management? 
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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #69 on: February 28, 2018, 11:38:18 am »
Are some of these businesses hitting the wall a consequence of Brexit, or just poor management? 

There has been a tightening of the wallets by consumers and maybe you can attribute some of that to Brexit with rising inflation, interest rates etc. But the biggest issue is competition, an outdated online offering, the wrong retail model.

Its sad really. Soon we will all be going to shop in soulles warehouses owned by c*nts like Amazon, where there are just boxes of products and our every move is tracked, whilst there are a couple of self employed guards on duty and some brainwashed, smiley ‘helper’ on minimum wage.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 11:44:43 am by a treeless whopper »

Offline Statto Red

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #70 on: February 28, 2018, 11:42:09 am »
#Sausages

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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #72 on: February 28, 2018, 11:58:28 am »
I must admit whenever I've popped in Maplin I've always found them rather pricey for what they're offering.  That said, my lightbox is a Maplin brand, albeit I got it via Amazon
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Offline OperationIvy

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #73 on: February 28, 2018, 12:15:38 pm »
I must admit whenever I've popped in Maplin I've always found them rather pricey for what they're offering.  That said, my lightbox is a Maplin brand, albeit I got it via Amazon

Not really their fault though. They have store-related overheads to pay unlike amazon, not to mention TAX!

Given that we have already seen this with Game, HMV, Virgin Megastore etc., im sure the management of Maplin were well aware that they need to adapt to the current market, but I dont think it can be done. A lot of the things they sell can be bought at a fraction of the price online e.g. those HDMI cables, you can buy them for one quid of ebay. Even if they became an online-only store, Im not sure they could compete.

Offline Elmo!

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #74 on: February 28, 2018, 12:45:56 pm »
Only time I ever used Maplin (for work or personal) was if we needed something urgently that day - I suspect the same for a lot of people. Probably not a big enough market to survive.

Offline Libertine

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #75 on: February 28, 2018, 12:49:27 pm »
Not really their fault though. They have store-related overheads to pay unlike amazon, not to mention TAX!

Given that we have already seen this with Game, HMV, Virgin Megastore etc., im sure the management of Maplin were well aware that they need to adapt to the current market, but I dont think it can be done. A lot of the things they sell can be bought at a fraction of the price online e.g. those HDMI cables, you can buy them for one quid of ebay. Even if they became an online-only store, Im not sure they could compete.

HMV seem to be doing rather well though, as are Waterstones, despite online retailers (and technology that threatened their core products).

Seems to me that the key thing is for companies to be dynamic and remain relevant to changing conditions, as well as offering a complementary online presence. And people will always want to shop in stores - the internet can never fully replace the real world retail experience.

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #76 on: February 28, 2018, 06:46:50 pm »
HMV seem to be doing rather well though, as are Waterstones, despite online retailers (and technology that threatened their core products).

Seems to me that the key thing is for companies to be dynamic and remain relevant to changing conditions, as well as offering a complementary online presence. And people will always want to shop in stores - the internet can never fully replace the real world retail experience.

Its the market they operate in, the accessories, cables etc that Maplin sell are well over priced, and the larger items are not the kind you buy without a bit of thought and research or the kind of thing you need there and then from a high street retailer. You can usually wait the few extra days it takes for those kind of things to be delivered from an online retailer.

HMV on the other hand are still pretty price competitive compared to their online rivals, and certainly for me a lot of the time the purchases are relatively impulsive, and unless there is a significant price difference as you say people will usually prefer to buy on the High St where they can.
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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #77 on: February 28, 2018, 10:59:58 pm »
HMV benefited from going out of business and only the best performing stores (on better lease deals in a lot of cases) rose from the ashes - with little to no debt.

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #78 on: February 28, 2018, 11:22:53 pm »
HMV seem to be doing rather well though, as are Waterstones, despite online retailers (and technology that threatened their core products).

Seems to me that the key thing is for companies to be dynamic and remain relevant to changing conditions, as well as offering a complementary online presence. And people will always want to shop in stores - the internet can never fully replace the real world retail experience.

Thats not the observation we have. Stores may have a place but if there is a complimentary area then its them and the website is now the key offering. That is certainly the case the younger the demographic is.

Usually we have tracked the life of significent product purchase being need > online reviews > online search > store visit > purchase. In that there is various levels of savvy usually in the search stage with more savvy users doing google compare or just comparing to amazon as a default.

Stores are very much geared now to show products in their best light and will be more and more about showing off more popular items. In the retail company i work for we have talked about reducing the size of the ‘lighting’ section to just put there those handful of items that sell well rather than display most of the range.

Even if stores are important, one thing is for sure that their presence on our high streets will be greatly reduced.

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Re: Carillion scrambles to stay afloat
« Reply #79 on: February 28, 2018, 11:35:28 pm »
HMV seem to be doing rather well though, as are Waterstones, despite online retailers (and technology that threatened their core products).

Seems to me that the key thing is for companies to be dynamic and remain relevant to changing conditions, as well as offering a complementary online presence. And people will always want to shop in stores - the internet can never fully replace the real world retail experience.

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