Topic: Youth and Under 23 Thread

[KingKolo]

Jordan Rossiter has gone on loan from Rangers to Bury in League 2. Alot was expected of Jordan from a young age and alot of people were not happy when he wasn't offered a contract but it looks like the right decision was made by Klopp now.

Yeah, it's a pity for him that he's had such a bad injury record and isn't blessed with pace or size.

It's a warning to those who assume Ben Woodburn is destined for success.

On 23 September 2014, Rossiter made his first team debut aged 17 in a League Cup third round match against Middlesbrough, scoring his first goal for the club with a low drive from 30 yards in the 10th minute to become Liverpool's second youngest goalscorer behind Michael Owen.

Ben Woodburn became Liverpool's youngest-ever goalscorer at the age of 17 years and 45 days when he came off the bench to score in an EFL Cup quarter-final win over Leeds United, bettering Michael Owen's record by 98 days.

[KingKolo]

You’d like to think the money invested in facilities and coaching in England might mean it’s more expected for those players to make it than in Nigeria, Switzerland or Mexico though.

I don't really see why it would be easier for an English youngster to make the steps from top class at 17 to top class at 27. There must be a fair bit going into coaching for those other nations to win the tournament in the first place, and the route in somewhere like Switzerland or Mexico is not as congested by foreign imports.

There's just so much that can still go wrong at the age of 17. Injuries, distractions, physical development etc. So many factors. Look at Ryan Sessegnon. Utd and Spurs were offering serious, serious cash for him last summer, and there was even talk of a wildcard inclusion in the world cup squad. Now he's had a season in the PL and his value has probably halved because he's been poor.

He's still only 18 and clearly has massive talent, but it's an example of how things can go wrong for a promising young footballer so unexpectedly and quickly.

[reddebs]

You might want to check Jordan's injury record since he turned 18.

Yet another young liverpool players career ruined on international duty.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/jordan-rossiter/verletzungen/spieler/258924#

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[KingKolo]

You’d like to think the money invested in facilities and coaching in England might mean it’s more expected for those players to make it than in Nigeria, Switzerland or Mexico though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_FIFA_U-17_World_Championship_squads#_Brazil

Presumably you'd agree that there's a fair bit of money invested into coaching and facilities in Brazil, yet where are all these players from their 2003 U17 winning team?

[FlashGordon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_FIFA_U-17_World_Championship_squads#_Brazil

Presumably you'd agree that there's a fair bit of money invested into coaching and facilities in Brazil, yet where are all these players from their 2003 U17 winning team?

Just goes to show it's not an exact science and it's hard for any young stars to make the step up.

[KingKolo]

You might want to check Jordan's injury record since he turned 18.

Yeah, it's a pity for him that he's had such a bad injury record and isn't blessed with pace or size.

[reddebs]

I don't think money or even the quality of coaching are reasons why so many winning u17s do or don't make it.

Hundreds, if not thousands, go through the doors of an academy from the age of 5/6yrs old to hopefully have 1 or 2 successes by the time they leave their teens.

That's no slight on the academy system, it's just how tough it is to make it at the highest level.

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[reddebs]

Yeah saw that but you've still used his fall or failure to tell us not to be excited about Ben.   There is no comparison other than the age or competition they made their debut.

You definitely have a massive downer on youth development like it's just a pointless exercise the world over.





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[KingKolo]

Yeah saw that but you've still used his fall or failure to tell us not to be excited about Ben.   There is no comparison other than the age or competition they made their debut.

You definitely have a massive downer on youth development like it's just a pointless exercise the world over.





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Definitely not meaning to come across as 'telling' anyone to do anything. So apologies if that's how it seems. Only giving my opinion, and anyone can regard it as a load of bollocks. I'm sure many will.

I'm not saying Woodburn definitely won't make it. He's clearly very highly thought of, and the spell at Sheff Utd doesn't mean much at his age. I'm just saying we haven't seen anywhere near enough yet to get genuinely excited about. Assuming the goal is to be making a meaningful contribution for the seniors on a regular basis, Woodburn is still a very long way away from that, and if I was betting on it, I wouldn't like to lay money on him ever making it through with the inevitable competition in attacking midfield at a club like Liverpool. Look at how Keita is struggling to get a run in our team.

More generally, I don't think youth football is pointless at all. I have a Level 2 FA badge from my time spent coaching at youth level, and I find the subject generally really interesting, which is why I bother to post about it on here! But I do think there are a lot of problems with the way things are set up in England, which is reflected in the country's abysmal record at major tournaments. So if that's a 'massive downer' then ok.

[BobPaisley3]

Any of the yoof teams in action this weekend?

[KingKolo]

Any of the yoof teams in action this weekend?

U23s play City on Monday.
Otherwise nah.

[So… Howard Philips]

Any of the yoof teams in action this weekend?

U18s against Stoke postponed due to frozen pitch.

[BobPaisley3]

But I do think there are a lot of problems with the way things are set up in England, which is reflected in the country's abysmal record at major tournaments. So if that's a 'massive downer' then ok.

I think there have been some excellent changes to youth coaching in the U.K. and the effects of which will only be seen in the next ten/twenty years. It’s already starting to come together with England’s youth teams winning some major tournaments over the past couple of years. It’s not perfect but sessions are so much more all inclusive than they used to be. I’ve seen a few sessions lately in Italy where all the players are in lines waiting for their turn, coach talking for half the time, a bit like it used to be here. This was at a top club too, not a grass roots practice down the park. 75% ball rolling time in the U.K. is the target during training now, in Italy I’ve seen it at about 20.

[BobPaisley3]

U23s play City on Monday.
Otherwise nah.

Be a good game that will.

[BobPaisley3]

U18s against Stoke postponed due to frozen pitch.

Thanks

[reddebs]

Definitely not meaning to come across as 'telling' anyone to do anything. So apologies if that's how it seems. Only giving my opinion, and anyone can regard it as a load of bollocks. I'm sure many will.

I'm not saying Woodburn definitely won't make it. He's clearly very highly thought of, and the spell at Sheff Utd doesn't mean much at his age. I'm just saying we haven't seen anywhere near enough yet to get genuinely excited about. Assuming the goal is to be making a meaningful contribution for the seniors on a regular basis, Woodburn is still a very long way away from that, and if I was betting on it, I wouldn't like to lay money on him ever making it through with the inevitable competition in attacking midfield at a club like Liverpool. Look at how Keita is struggling to get a run in our team.

More generally, I don't think youth football is pointless at all. I have a Level 2 FA badge from my time spent coaching at youth level, and I find the subject generally really interesting, which is why I bother to post about it on here! But I do think there are a lot of problems with the way things are set up in England, which is reflected in the country's abysmal record at major tournaments. So if that's a 'massive downer' then ok.

I think we all realise things could be better in terms of competition but there's plenty to look forward to at Kirkby and its improving season on season over the last decade. 

It's probably still not good enough to produce across the pitch for the seniors but 1 or 2 every couple of seasons is better than most, if not all, our rivals.

Maybe I took what you were saying the wrong way, I do get a bit defensive about our youth if I feel anyones being over critical.

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[dakid]

Yeah, it's a pity for him that he's had such a bad injury record and isn't blessed with pace or size.

It's a warning to those who assume Ben Woodburn is destined for success.

On 23 September 2014, Rossiter made his first team debut aged 17 in a League Cup third round match against Middlesbrough, scoring his first goal for the club with a low drive from 30 yards in the 10th minute to become Liverpool's second youngest goalscorer behind Michael Owen.

Ben Woodburn became Liverpool's youngest-ever goalscorer at the age of 17 years and 45 days when he came off the bench to score in an EFL Cup quarter-final win over Leeds United, bettering Michael Owen's record by 98 days.

I don't know anyone who assumes Woodburn is destined for success at Liverpool. His lack of pace will be a problem for the forward positions so I think he will end up central but it hasn't really happened for him so far. He is still very young though.

[RogerTheRed]

How did the U23 do against City?

[momo22]

How did the U23 do against City?

1-1

[KingKolo]

I don't know anyone who assumes Woodburn is destined for success at Liverpool. His lack of pace will be a problem for the forward positions so I think he will end up central but it hasn't really happened for him so far. He is still very young though.

Yeah, if it's going to happen for him at Liverpool, it'll surely be in midfield.

[dakid]

Surely the end of his Liverpool career if this happens.
 https://www.thisisanfield.com/2019/02/latest-transfer-move-suggests-liverpool-are-giving-up-on-young-midfielder/

[KingKolo]

Surely the end of his Liverpool career if this happens.
 https://www.thisisanfield.com/2019/02/latest-transfer-move-suggests-liverpool-are-giving-up-on-young-midfielder/

Good luck to the lad. Must've been a nightmare few years.

[Boaty McBoatface]

Although it's turned out that he's likely not good enough for us now, it's a shame we haven't been able to train him in-house. Because he does have talent.

[dakid]

Brewster ruled out for the rest of the season after a setback that required additional knee surgery. That is an awful long time out injured. His first knee surgery was only meant to keep him out until last pre season.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6607683/Jurgen-Klopp-reveals-Liverpool-youngster-Rhian-Brewster-rest-season.html

And now Brewster says he is fit. You have got to wonder what is going on with out medical department. From the initial diagnosis of this injury. To TAA playing vs Brighton being ruled out for a month then being declared available if needed by klopp for Palace then rules out again, the Gomez fiasco to Brewster being ruled out for the season and suddenly fit again.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rhian-brewster-amazing-liverpool-prospect-15787368

[DelTrotter]

While we are very, very weird regarding injuries I dont think there's much contradiction on the Brewster stuff. I just took him to mean he's fit as in healthy so is doing work. Klopp did say he's doing some work, running etc and Brewster said "they can’t wait for me to be back in training and hopefully make my debut this year, if not next.” which pretty much matches what Jurgen said.

[FlashGordon]

And now Brewster says he is fit. You have got to wonder what is going on with out medical department. From the initial diagnosis of this injury. To TAA playing vs Brighton being ruled out for a month then being declared available if needed by klopp for Palace then rules out again, the Gomez fiasco to Brewster being ruled out for the season and suddenly fit again.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rhian-brewster-amazing-liverpool-prospect-15787368

How is Gomez a fiasco for fuck sake. We didn't think he needed surgery, something happened in his recovery that led to a need for surgery. Brewster was never ruled out for the season, it's however you want to read the comments that were made that would lead you to that conclusion.

[istvan kozma]

And now Brewster says he is fit. You have got to wonder what is going on with out medical department. From the initial diagnosis of this injury. To TAA playing vs Brighton being ruled out for a month then being declared available if needed by klopp for Palace then rules out again, the Gomez fiasco to Brewster being ruled out for the season and suddenly fit again.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rhian-brewster-amazing-liverpool-prospect-15787368

Lol totally ignorant and clueless from start to finish, surely you're not being serious?

[dakid]

While we are very, very weird regarding injuries I dont think there's much contradiction on the Brewster stuff. I just took him to mean he's fit as in healthy so is doing work. Klopp did say he's doing some work, running etc and Brewster said "they can’t wait for me to be back in training and hopefully make my debut this year, if not next.” which pretty much matches what Jurgen said.

I took that as comments players were previously making to him when he was injured and these as to what's happening now “I’m finally back fit and doing what I love and pushing to get back in the team."

[dakid]

How is Gomez a fiasco for fuck sake. We didn't think he needed surgery, something happened in his recovery that led to a need for surgery. Brewster was never ruled out for the season, it's however you want to read the comments that were made that would lead you to that conclusion.

Jurgen Klopps exact quote was "He's in a good way but it will take time. But it's no problem, he has the time. We don't have to think about him before the pre-season, I would say."

[FlashGordon]

Jurgen Klopps exact quote was "He's in a good way but it will take time. But it's no problem, he has the time. We don't have to think about him before the pre-season, I would say."

Doesn't say he's not playing any football this season though, it's not a clear ruling him out for the rest of the season.

[KingKolo]

And now Brewster says he is fit. You have got to wonder what is going on with out medical department. From the initial diagnosis of this injury. To TAA playing vs Brighton being ruled out for a month then being declared available if needed by klopp for Palace then rules out again, the Gomez fiasco to Brewster being ruled out for the season and suddenly fit again.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rhian-brewster-amazing-liverpool-prospect-15787368

Trent playing the full game against Brighton was fucking stupid. Couldn't believe it at the time, was so obvious he was carrying an issue.

Gomez... fuck knows what's going on there. Nothing concrete to criticise the medical department about there.

I know what you mean with Brewster's comments. They do suggest he's essentially fit again, which goes against what Klopp said. Then again, he'll probably need a good number of games at U23 level to regain match sharpness, which may well mean he's not an option for Klopp to consider until pre-season. So he might've just been appropriately cautious with his prediction, especially given the player's age.

You could throw in Wijnaldum. Sore knee, then plays a game, then has a sore knee again... not ideal.

All in all though mate, it's not an exact science. These things happen.

[farawayred]

Trent playing the full game against Brighton was fucking stupid. Couldn't believe it at the time, was so obvious he was carrying an issue.

Gomez... fuck knows what's going on there. Nothing concrete to criticise the medical department about there.

I know what you mean with Brewster's comments. They do suggest he's essentially fit again, which goes against what Klopp said. Then again, he'll probably need a good number of games at U23 level to regain match sharpness, which may well mean he's not an option for Klopp to consider until pre-season. So he might've just been appropriately cautious with his prediction, especially given the player's age.

You could throw in Wijnaldum. Sore knee, then plays a game, then has a sore knee again... not ideal.

All in all though mate, it's not an exact science. These things happen.

And you know the bit in bold, because?...

His troubled period was right at the start of the game. He recovered from that and seemed fine apparently to the Liverpool doctors. His injury was already in the making in the first few minutes. Whether he finished the game or not does not appear to had any effect on the aggravation.

[KingKolo]

And you know the bit in bold, because?...

His troubled period was right at the start of the game. He recovered from that and seemed fine apparently to the Liverpool doctors. His injury was already in the making in the first few minutes. Whether he finished the game or not does not appear to had any effect on the aggravation.

Haha, I think you should be answering how you know the bit in bold.

Usually playing on an injury aggravates it.

[farawayred]

Haha, I think you should be answering how you know the bit in bold.

Usually playing on an injury aggravates it.

Well, that's what was in the reports. yes, playing on an injury aggravates it, but I give the medical personnel on the bench more credit to know what they are doing.

[BrandoLFC]

TAA picked up a knock in the warm up right before kick off and said he could still play.  Where they supposed to wheel him in to the not available MRI machine in those few minutes?  What other options were there at that point?  It's not like he was injured the whole week and we started him when he said he couldn't play.  There's plenty of medical things to be concerned about, mainly concussions, but this one for TAA seems a pretty petty thing to whine about.

[dazzamcc]

Bright Amoateng is on trial at Bury at the moment.

https://football-wonderkids.co.uk/player/bright-amoateng

[FlashGordon]

Dal Varesanovic and Eddie Tagseth lads, where have they disappeared to?

[KingKolo]

TAA picked up a knock in the warm up right before kick off and said he could still play.  Where they supposed to wheel him in to the not available MRI machine in those few minutes?  What other options were there at that point?  It's not like he was injured the whole week and we started him when he said he couldn't play.  There's plenty of medical things to be concerned about, mainly concussions, but this one for TAA seems a pretty petty thing to whine about.

You don't need an MRI machine. He was clearly injured.

Anyway, it's done. No point 'whining'.

[Chris~]

Dal Varesanovic and Eddie Tagseth lads, where have they disappeared to?

Dal hasnt played a game for us, imagine we're having issue with a work permit or hoping he doesnt catch the attention of fifa. Tagseth is injured again i believe.

[FlashGordon]

Dal hasnt played a game for us, imagine we're having issue with a work permit or hoping he doesnt catch the attention of fifa. Tagseth is injured again i believe.

Hadn't realised that, how long ago did we sign him?