Author Topic: The VR/AR Revolution (Read 37062 times)

Macphisto80 · « **on:** January 22, 2015, 01:45:20 pm »

Augmented reality. Virtual reality.

Both of these concepts, whilst nothing new, have been lurking in niche technology circles for a while, and could potentially explode into the mainstream, changing how we interact with the world in much the same way that smart phone technology did, or probably even greater than that. This thread could have been placed in the gaming section, but I believe that these devices are destined for much more than just gaming.

Some of the devices currently in development or already released are:

AR devices

Google Glass. Google's attempt to make mobile phones redundant by having a head mounted display that 'augments reality'. It's already been released, but what they didn't plan for was the fact that no everyone is comfortable with wearing glasses, or having to adjust to wearing them when they don't normally do in public. It released with a whimper and so far it's been a massive failure commercially, and it's easy to see why. Google have since suspended production, but aren't giving up on it just yet. Back to the drawing board for them. However, it wasn't all a failure. The technology used in the device is extremely impressive, and has already been expanded upon by Microsoft.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/RCCXZ8ErVag" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/RCCXZ8ErVag</a>

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/wvdfd_hrYYg" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/wvdfd_hrYYg</a>

As with Google glass, this just recently revealed device uses a lens that acts as a screen or a projector in front of the users eyes. The difference here is that the user's entire field of view is covered, so a lot more can be done with it as 3d objects are projected as holograms that interact with your actual surroundings. Where VR headsets are bulky and cumbersome, this is much lighter, and offers a different kind of use. As this technology becomes cheaper, it's easy to imagine how it could be used as a next generation 3d for films and TV.

VR

The Oculus Rift.

Currently in what many would consider it's Beta stages of development, for PC only, this device is about to be on sale to the general public very soon. It's primary focus being immersion for gaming. The drawback for this technology as a output device is dependant on other hardware, meaning that state of the art visuals running on it effectively as the intended experience would require top end components. Something that not everyone will be willing to spend on, so for the time being, VR might be what gaming was to many back in it's heyday - a niche activity.

Project Morpheus (working name)

Sony's answer to the Oculus. Or is it? As mentioned with the Rift, the technology is wholly dependant on the hardware it's running off of. The more horsepower you have, the better the experience will be, and that's discounting the fact that the device itself is limited to whatever specs is given to it. The PS4 has a locked spec, so it could work for or against it. The advantage for Sony is that so far, it's the only device of it's kind to come to the console market, specifically for just gaming on a single system. Whether or not it turns out that MS's direction is more suited for a console platform, time will tell.

The Gear VR

Samsung have waisted no time with jumping on the VR hype train. However, unlike the rest, this is more of a peripheral than an actual device. It requires you have the latest Samsung Galaxy Note, which slots into the headset and acts as the display. It's obviously intended for portable mobile use. It's a novel idea, but one that I think will be short lived once the "proper" devices go to retail.

iSmiff · « **Reply #1 on:** January 22, 2015, 10:10:33 pm »

i have to say i utterly dismissed the MS Hololens when i saw it at their show, i just thought it was some pie in the sky gimmick that would never live up to what they claimed.

Then reports from loads of journalists started to appear and saying it actually works as MS say. Very impressive.

Not sure I'd got for AR over VR though. Occulus (or whatever is the best) is more appealing to me.

Haemoglobin · « **Reply #2 on:** January 22, 2015, 10:48:57 pm »

If Morpheus isn't toss, it will change a hell of a lot. Playstation owners will buy it in their droves if it works well, and then you'll start seeing the real money pumped into developing for it. If Sony are firmly behind it every step of the way, it'll be huge.

I can't express how much I want it to get a release soon, and for it to live up to the hype. When I get the time to myself, turning all the lights off and popping on the surround headphones already feels like an event with a good game, gets me all excited and full of childlike wonder. VR would just send my head west, in a good way(?)

iSmiff · « **Reply #3 on:** January 22, 2015, 11:04:15 pm »

i don't know if Morpheus works with other devices other than PStation. I guess it would have to or I really can't see it ever taking off.

Haemoglobin · « **Reply #4 on:** January 22, 2015, 11:09:47 pm »

Quote from: iSmiff on January 22, 2015, 11:04:15 pm

i don't know if Morpheus works with other devices other than PStation. I guess it would have to or I really can't see it ever taking off.

I'm sure some clever bastards will mod it somehow eventually. But even if it's confined to just the Playstation, if you have a simple peripheral that you just plop on your head, fire up a game on your console et voila, I'm confident it would sell millions in no time. If it has the full weight of Sony and Playstation fans behind it, it will push VR a long way in a short time, I reckon, and will actually help VR developed independently for other platforms. It would sort of give it legitimacy among developers, for want of a better word... credibility.

Macphisto80 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 23, 2015, 11:34:02 am »

I honestly can't say which excites me more. What MS displayed as an actual working technology the other day is something that was only previously seen in science fiction. Sure, you could say the same for VR, but VR has been a work in progress since the late 80's. Only now has technology caught up to allow it to be both possible and viable. AR is a different beast to it altogether. It's similar in some ways, but it's practical applications work differently. Sure, you could probably do the same on a Rift via piping live feed through a camera on the outside, but again you're limited by a screen resolution. AR has already been done on the PS4, Vita and 3DS, but again that's confined to a screen. To actually see something that isn't really there with your own vision, and to be able to actually manipulate it with your hands, walk round it etc - that's ground breaking stuff. The thing about VR is that almost every experience will require it to be 1st person, naturally. With AR, it doesn't have to be. I think we're certainly on the threshold of something incredible with both these technologies. It's an exciting time.

Haemoglobin · « **Reply #6 on:** January 23, 2015, 11:47:42 am »

Yeah, they're both very enticing prospects.

Purely as someone who loves to be immersed in a created videogame universe, I'd choose to buy a VR device before AR, as intriguing as it is. I'm sure the experience of both at their very best will be utterly magical, though - "indistinguishable from magic".

And I would actually love to play a 3rd-person full-VR game! It would be pretty odd, like an out-of-body experience maybe, but that's what piques my curiosity. And my level of deep immersion when playing something like The Last Of Us or Uncharted (the 3rd one is brilliant in stereoscopic 3D) might suggest it'd be a strangely rewarding and meditative adventure, observing this character you control make their way through this world, while you're also present in it, it's all around you. I love shit like that.

iSmiff · « **Reply #7 on:** January 23, 2015, 04:28:11 pm »

is there anything to stop MS from turning the Holo into a proper VR machine? a few extra sensors and perhaps something that clips over the visor to block out all external light and it's done?

Macphisto80 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 23, 2015, 05:41:29 pm »

Quote from: iSmiff on January 23, 2015, 04:28:11 pm

is there anything to stop MS from turning the Holo into a proper VR machine? a few extra sensors and perhaps something that clips over the visor to block out all external light and it's done?

I was thinking this too. I don't think the screen works like that, though. It's a projection, plus you have to have the correct lenses and split the screen for 3d. You obviously don't need any of that when you're looking at the real world. I think it will have some kind of light blocking visor, though. If you actually look at it's design, it has two small screens inside the larger visor at the front. It could be used as a monitor of sorts, I reckon. If they manage to get that thing working so that you can actually pick up objects with your hands and manipulate them, then it's already got one over on VR without the need for any kind of additional devices. That's incredible even thinking about it.

boots · « **Reply #9 on:** February 12, 2015, 12:03:29 pm »

Oculus CK1 (public release version) is out this year. Ive seen Elite through the DK1 versions and oh my, 'Better Than Life' sprung to mind. (Red Dwarf fans will understand what I mean) Looks very good and I for one will be buying the release version as soon as.

Macphisto80 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 13, 2015, 08:47:23 pm »

A lad I was doing a job for this week had a DK2 Oculus. I was amazed to see it in his room, and thought it was going to be my first experience trying it. Alas, it wasn't to be as the fecker wouldn't set it up for me. What I found really surprising about it was how light it was. It literally feels like nothing in your hands, and they say they are going to make it even lighter. One thing I didn't like was the wires. They really are distracting and effect the comfort of it on your head, although that could have been that it was tailored to fit his head. Hopefully that improves for the retail.

Macphisto80 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 2, 2015, 06:59:02 pm »

We can now add this:

HTC and Valve's collaboration called 'Vive'. Valve are already developing their own VR distribution service. This could be the perfect mainstream solution, should Facebook fuck up the Rift, which is highly likely.

Haemoglobin · « **Reply #12 on:** March 2, 2015, 07:27:33 pm »

Good to know they're all at it now, hopefully gives the biggies a bit of a push.

I do understand it has to be ready, because any slight framerate drops or motion blur that would be a relatively minor irritant on a screen will become a truly nauseating issue through a VR headset. And if the games and applications are a bit shit and don't implement VR well, the novelty would wear off fairly quickly. But still, I want to experience this as soon as I can.

I'm actually quite interested in seeing what many would consider big flaws in a virtual reality immersion context - you know, pixellation, jagged lines, pop-in... that intrigues me, I wouldn't automatically hate that; I like being reminded I'm playing a videogame sometimes, and being reminded that you're in a videogame could be handy too

iSmiff · « **Reply #13 on:** March 2, 2015, 10:44:09 pm »

they all need to sit down and decide on a VR standard, the market is starting to get saturated at this stage, i don' want to buy an Occulus and not be able to run Vive games or stuff from other headsets

i know on PC the moddin commuity would likely take care of that side of things but they shouldn't have to

Red Beret · « **Reply #14 on:** March 3, 2015, 09:23:27 am »

Would you play "Slender" with a VR headset?

I wouldn't.

iSmiff · « **Reply #15 on:** March 3, 2015, 11:48:56 pm »

Quote

Sony has unveiled a near-final version of its Morpheus virtual reality headset, revealing specs closer to what we can expect from the consumer version - and when we can expect to be able to buy it.

Morpheus headset will boast a 5.7 inch OLED screen, with a resolution of 1920x1080. Impressively, it'll boast a 120Hz refresh rate - besting the 90Hz in the Vive headset that HTC is making in partnership with Valve, and also the 75Hz that Oculus Rift DK2 currently runs at.

In a presentation at this year's GDC in San Francisco, Sony's Shuhei Yoshida also revealed several other key details - such as how the headset will boast a latency of less than 18 milliseconds and features nine tracking LEDs. It will also feature an improved viewing angle of 100 degrees.

Most importantly, the headset is aiming for a final consumer release in the first half of 2016. Press are currently receiving demos of Morpheus, and Digital Foundry's Rich Leadbetter has already been impressed with what's on show, sampling a new demo called London Heist. We'll have more details and full impressions soon.

now they just need to release the PS5 to run the thing at 120hz

[new username under construction] · « **Reply #16 on:** March 5, 2015, 08:54:31 pm »

HTC and Valve's sound really impressive

iSmiff · « **Reply #17 on:** March 5, 2015, 09:32:00 pm »

from the sounds of it they seem to be some way ahead of the competition

I think Occulus will end up being nothing, they've waited too long from having such a big lead on the competition. They should have just realesed the first version of the rift to the public and kept releasing new ones every year.

As long as they were up front I think people would have been ok with it and they'd have established themselves as the leader.

Now they look to be well behind Steam and Sony, possibly even Microsoft.

G a r y · « **Reply #18 on:** March 5, 2015, 09:48:36 pm »

I'm getting a chance to take some kids to have a go of the Occulus next week, little do they know they'll have to fight me for a go

Macphisto80 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 5, 2015, 10:17:45 pm »

Quote from: iSmiff on March 5, 2015, 09:32:00 pm

from the sounds of it they seem to be some way ahead of the competition

I think Occulus will end up being nothing, they've waited too long from having such a big lead on the competition. They should have just realesed the first version of the rift to the public and kept releasing new ones every year.

As long as they were up front I think people would have been ok with it and they'd have established themselves as the leader.

Now they look to be well behind Steam and Sony, possibly even Microsoft.

I agree with this. Oculus might have gotten the ball rolling by being the first to really get the VR scene kick started (literally) to the direction it's now taking, but they won't be the ones to perfect the technology, and they won't be the mainstream, or at least the consumers choice. Once a big name came into the fray, they were always bound to struggle, and I think that's what will eventually happen. A bit like Nokia mobile phones. Now they're just another brand competing against the big boys like Samsung and Apple. Even Sony struggles, and VR is all based off of mobile tech, so I think those with the most clout and resources in mobile technology will eventually dominate VR. It's also a very good point you make about how content will be distributed and making a product as clear and friendly to the consumer as possible. Valve and HTC seem to have realised this early. The Rift just still seems to be a bit of an unknown quantity in that regard, especially given the Facebook buyout. Is it a gaming device? Is it a vehicle to push products via a Facebook VR experience? No one knows.

ThePeetmix · « **Reply #20 on:** March 5, 2015, 10:38:56 pm »

I actually think the only things that would stop Morpheus doing decently well is if any of the other VR devices drove PC gaming truly in to the mainstream for consumers. I'm not sure that will necessarily happen. Also, I don't think Sony really needs to rush theirs out. With the Hololens pretty much being a different kind of experience altogether, they're not really competing towards the same thing. The PS4 user base is still building up nicely at good pace (just crossed over 20 million) so come another christmas, they'll already have a lot of people owning the console, who can potentially buy the device.

IF it works well, I think Morpheus definitely has the greatest potential the sell high numbers. But also has potential to flop if Sony put a lot of promotion in to it. The other devices will have a pretty good guaranteed smaller audience but whether they can break to a more mainstream audience remains to be seen.

With Hololens, I'm still a bit skeptical how well it will work, despite reports. In a controlled area, sure it might work well. But how practical will it be for different types of rooms. Will games be able to unlock it's potential to create the same kind of immersion VR creates? We can only see. The Kinect had great potential but in the end, it never could really get the software support to really make it a staple in gaming.

iSmiff · « **Reply #21 on:** March 5, 2015, 10:44:35 pm »

The main thing i reckon going against morpheus is actually the ps4

it's just not powerful enough to power something like SteamVR with high quality graphics, if the games looks like shit then people will not buy it

i think for it to succeed they have to open it up to the PC platform, it's all well and good having a 1080p 120hz screen but the ps4 struggles with high quality at lower resolutions at 30FPS

in saying that it's going to be a niche market for a long time, even the PC requirements will be ridiculous for these units

[new username under construction] · « **Reply #22 on:** March 6, 2015, 09:14:20 am »

Nice little bit about the HTC Valve one...

http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2015/03/htc-vive-virtual-reality-thats-so-damn-real-i-cant-even-handle-it/

Upinsmoke · « **Reply #23 on:** March 6, 2015, 09:34:11 am »

Very intrigued by this VR push, it's really one of those things those where specifications and numbers on a sheet, even somebody else giving an opinion is a bit pointless. You'd just have to wear one yourself, I can see it splitting opinion fairly evenly, some might think it's real good, others might just not adapt and some might have unreal expectations that can never be achieved for mainstream products with the technology out there and the price they need to retail at for consumers to buy them in numbers.

Do you want a product that retails at thousands along with hardware to power it and basically fall into the hands of 0.1 percent of customers. Or something which sets the ball rolling not to blow minds but to get into the hands of a wide range of customers.

Smiff you say the ps4 will struggle but won't games be made specifically for morpheus? Like you couldn't just put out a game like Killzone (example of a fps which is nice looking) and patch in the option for morpheus over the top because that just won't happen. I'd be quite happy to have a game which isn't too demanding on the hardware to then use the rest of the processing power for the purpose of VR.

Haemoglobin · « **Reply #24 on:** March 6, 2015, 01:47:37 pm »

Quote from: iSmiff on March 5, 2015, 10:44:35 pm

The main thing i reckon going against morpheus is actually the ps4

it's just not powerful enough to power something like SteamVR with high quality graphics, if the games looks like shit then people will not buy it

i think for it to succeed they have to open it up to the PC platform, it's all well and good having a 1080p 120hz screen but the ps4 struggles with high quality at lower resolutions at 30FPS

in saying that it's going to be a niche market for a long time, even the PC requirements will be ridiculous for these units

The thing is though, Sony genuinely seem confident about its use in conjunction with the PS4, not in a keeping-up-appearances tubthumping sense, but a cautious self-assurance. They've recently announced it's pegged for full realease to consumers next year, and testers have been very impressed with early demos. I wouldn't put it past Sony to put the whole project on ice if they had even the slightest doubt that their current gen console was capable of running it decently, and then bring it out of stasis for the PS5, having tweaked and perfected the technology in the years between (which would be many, considering the PS4's only been out since late 2013!). Sony really don't need to jump on the bandwagon if their stuff just isn't ready for the VR plunge - a poor/lukewarm reception to Morpheus' current-gen performance could do some genuine harm to the Playstation brand, whereas simply not releasing it on PS4 actually wouldn't have much of an impact, would just be disappointing, deflating to all of us eagerly anticipating its arrival. It'd be a needless risk from their point of view if it all just doesn't work right together.

I'd agree that it'd be beneficial for Morpheus to be opened up to the PC market, because the amount of potentially fruitful user experimentation could catalyse its evolution into the foremost VR experience. Accessibility combined with impressive performance is what would make it a massive commercial (and cultural) success; simply turn on, tune in, drop out.

Another thing is that Playstation exclusivity with certain brilliant IPs will enable some Morpheus games to push the PS4 to its limit without going too far, and without needing to worry about porting to other platforms - that VR content will be designed specially to look good on PS4, and there'll be no negative technical comparisons available, particularly if the game itself is antastic to play. Who cares what The Last Of Us: Remastered might look like on the highest Ultra settings on some suped-up PC? That comparison isn't available, and it looks and runs great as it is. If PS4 VR works well within (and maybe even sometimes makes a gaming advantage of) its technical limitations, it doesn't really need to compete with beefier rigs. The Sony boffins have apparently also (somehow) come up with software solutions to perfect VR preformance on PS4, despite full-spec Morpheus seeming to demand more than it's capable of - it remains to be seen how that works out, but I don't see why they'd come out with barefaced lies at this stage!

Haemoglobin · « **Reply #25 on:** March 6, 2015, 02:56:54 pm »

Quote from: iSmiff on March 5, 2015, 10:44:35 pm

the ps4 struggles with high quality at lower resolutions at 30FPS

I should also say, regardless of the obviously far more demanding VR specs, this has not been my experience on PS4, at all. While I'm sure a meaty PC gaming rig could achieve similar results with relative ease, at no point has my console struggled with any of that. Maybe the PS3 does at various times, but not the PS4.

Guess it depends on exactly what you mean by "high quality" - TLOU multiplayer looks bloody lovely to me and runs at a constant buttery-smooth 60fps without the console breaking a sweat. I suppose photorealistic graphics would be another matter, but that's not what I'm looking for from VR anyway. I would love to be plopped into a PS2-era-esque cel-shaded cartoon VR world! And none of this stuff other than framerate and latency is going to impact on pure gameplay anyway, just the visual immersiveness of the experience - there may well be brilliantly addictive VR games produced early on that don't look so amazing, but don't really care because they provide deeper enjoyment. I can't wait to find myself lost in the middle of a weird glitchy quasi-8-bit blocky 3D universe, personally.

iSmiff · « **Reply #26 on:** March 6, 2015, 03:52:26 pm »

what i mean about the HQ graphics is that people who've used both say that the Steam headset is just more immersive, wider screen and higher quality textures make the games more realistic, people have reported that after about 3 seconds you forget your staring at a screen

now that fine but irrelevant if the games are shite. it's also irrelevant if the headset isn't supported

like the betamax, n64, saturn, jaguar it's not always the best machine that wins the war

Macphisto80 · « **Reply #27 on:** March 6, 2015, 07:29:34 pm »

I agree with Smiff: the PS4 isn't an ideal platform for VR, or at least the kind of VR experience people will expect. In that regard, the industry will have come full circle back to the early 90's to mid 2000's when the PC just clearly trumped consoles in everything it did. There was an obvious technological gap between the PC and consoles of the time, and all the strides in the industry were being made on PC. VR will be no different. You'll get acceptable experiences on PS4, but people will be a little disappointed if they are expecting proper big budget title visuals on the platform. If anything, most games will not be far off early PS3 titles, and even PS2 levels of fidelity. That shouldn't matter, though. I'll be betting that most VR titles will favour UE4, as that engine scales amazingly well and was built to accommodate lower level platforms, and especially mobile. The visuals it can produce for high end phones are not that far off from what we get on current gen systems, amazingly. By contrast, those that end up trying some of the more polished high end experiences on a capable PC rig will have a real eye opener in just how big the gap is in terms of technology between PC and console.

Upinsmoke · « **Reply #28 on:** March 6, 2015, 08:17:21 pm »

I honestly believe console's have the upper hand here though, they are more marketable to a wider audience. It's easier to get into homes. What if the Nintendo never went the direction they did with the Wii, what if, in 05 a peripheral just like the wii (hypothetically speaking) was released to the PC market, (maybe something already had) it would of never had the result the wii had. Now granted the wii was a package designed for motion controls, it wasn't an add on, but other add-on's such as the PS Move and Kinect were seperate peripherals and whilst not being a whirlwind success were still in a few million homes, now if you isolated them two peripherals to the pc market they don't even make a dent. Hate to use this word but pc "enthusiasts" wouldn't buy into it.

What seperates PC gamers from console gamers is ignorance from the latter. Console gamers will buy it because it's there and it's associated with a brand. As soon as Sony open up Morpheus to the PC it loses it's attraction, people don't want something that you can play on PS and PC (even though the result would be better), they want exclusivity, they wanna be part of a brand, they want to identify themselves with that brand. Fanboys. It's the reason in 2015 PS4 has sold 20.4M Consoles in just 16 months.

So whether Morpheus (or whatever MS do) is worse on paper or even worse when push comes to shove, I still think they'll get more units into homes via PS4 than anything on PC. If it doesn't take off on consoles, it won't on PC. That's my gut feeling. I want them all to be successful as it's a real turn for Gaming and the way this could be the norm in the future.

Have to be honest though, i still couldn't see past booting up windows and sitting in me chair 30 cm's from the screen with my keyboard and mouse, like ever.

Upinsmoke · « **Reply #29 on:** March 6, 2015, 08:26:05 pm »

In short if it works out and all is a success across all platforms, nothing changes. PC gamers shout loudest about immersion and IQ etc (just like they can about AO, 4k, multiple displays, 60 fps>) whilst consoles gamers shout numbers sold.

That's basically how I see it if it works, superior product on pc, superior numbers on console.

Haemoglobin · « **Reply #30 on:** March 6, 2015, 09:13:04 pm »

Quote from: iSmiff on March 6, 2015, 03:52:26 pm

what i mean about the HQ graphics is that people who've used both say that the Steam headset is just more immersive, wider screen and higher quality textures make the games more realistic, people have reported that after about 3 seconds you forget your staring at a screen

now that fine but irrelevant if the games are shite. it's also irrelevant if the headset isn't supported

like the betamax, n64, saturn, jaguar it's not always the best machine that wins the war

Quote from: Macphisto80 on March 6, 2015, 07:29:34 pm

I agree with Smiff: the PS4 isn't an ideal platform for VR, or at least the kind of VR experience people will expect. In that regard, the industry will have come full circle back to the early 90's to mid 2000's when the PC just clearly trumped consoles in everything it did. There was an obvious technological gap between the PC and consoles of the time, and all the strides in the industry were being made on PC. VR will be no different. You'll get acceptable experiences on PS4, but people will be a little disappointed if they are expecting proper big budget title visuals on the platform. If anything, most games will not be far off early PS3 titles, and even PS2 levels of fidelity. That shouldn't matter, though. I'll be betting that most VR titles will favour UE4, as that engine scales amazingly well and was built to accommodate lower level platforms, and especially mobile. The visuals it can produce for high end phones are not that far off from what we get on current gen systems, amazingly. By contrast, those that end up trying some of the more polished high end experiences on a capable PC rig will have a real eye opener in just how big the gap is in terms of technology between PC and console.

I wouldn't argue (and haven't been) that the best experience of VR from a technical standpoint will be on high-ish-end computers rather than consoles, my view is more that Sony clearly believe they can produce a capable version of it, and wouldn't release it if the PS4 couldn't handle a decent VR product.

It should be clear from my posts that I'm excited for VR experiences of all kinds, including the fairly graphically-flawed; curious as I am to play around in a very sharp-textured, realistic world, that's not what I'm expecting. I imagine the PS4's focus will be on quite basic cartoonish graphical universes, and I'm excited for that. Unless the unanimous demand from the videogame community is for more than that, immediately, it won't flop necessarily because few people will ditch their consoles and buy an advanced VR PC setup if the games on the console version are still very enjoyable. They'll naturally just look to buy the very best of what's available for their own console.

There's a trend among gamers against all-out graphics worship right now anyway, and although VR will raise the base level of what's required in order just to be a pleasurable experience, I genuinely don't believe people will throw class VR games by the wayside simply because they aren't the prettiest available. I reckon you'll pretty much see kind of what you've seen in non-VR contexts; PC master race types deriding the consoles' efforts and claiming true immersion is only capable on their systems, and console aficionados for the most part casually ignoring them, and essentially saying "I'm immersed in X just fine, thank you".

The real issue at hand is not what the ideal platform for VR is, but rather whether platforms that are not ideal are still capable enough to immerse and bring gaming joy. That's actually the only truly important gaming issue here, because technically PCs, with all their countless custom-build possibilities and constant upgradability, are gona outperform consoles for a long time yet, if not forever, but PC is not necessarily the platform right now where you'll find all the best games, towering in quality above allcomers. People are happy with their Playstations, for instance, because aside from the reduced initial outlay on the system itself (that evens itself out over time anyway with the difference in price of console games vs PC games, especially if you're a dirty pirate), you'll get fairly regular masterpieces (maybe at least two or three per generation) that it selfishly won't share with any other platform. I can guarantee that TLOU has shipped fuckloads of PS3s and PS4s all on it's own, and that's just the latest in a pretty long line. Whatever your views on the exclusivity issue, it can prove a powerful draw toward a certain system, and don't expect that to change as we enter the HD VR arena.

Haemoglobin · « **Reply #31 on:** March 6, 2015, 09:16:41 pm »

Quote from: Upinsmoke on March 6, 2015, 08:26:05 pm

In short if it works out and all is a success across all platforms, nothing changes. PC gamers shout loudest about immersion and IQ etc (just like they can about AO, 4k, multiple displays, 60 fps>) whilst consoles gamers shout numbers sold.

That's basically how I see it if it works, superior product on pc, superior numbers on console.

Essentially this, in a nutshell.

But also, the 'superior product' is purely from a technical angle, and great videogames have much more than that going for them. Great games have soul, for all their limitations, and there's no reason to think that console gamers will be inevitably shortchanged in that respect.

iSmiff · « **Reply #32 on:** March 6, 2015, 09:24:21 pm »

i reckon PC has sold more units than PS4

by about a billion or so

I jest, I jest.

Haemoglobin · « **Reply #33 on:** March 6, 2015, 09:26:17 pm »

Quote from: iSmiff on March 6, 2015, 09:24:21 pm

i reckon PC has sold more units than PS4

by about a billion or so

I jest, I jest.

Yeah, but that's some fucking head start!

Upinsmoke · « **Reply #34 on:** March 6, 2015, 09:59:57 pm »

Quote from: iSmiff on March 6, 2015, 09:24:21 pm

i reckon PC has sold more units than PS4

by about a billion or so

I jest, I jest.

Haha, looking forward to some great VR with my Intel celeron and ATI graphics card at the heart of it all.

Macphisto80 · « **Reply #35 on:** March 6, 2015, 10:22:20 pm »

Quote from: Haemoglobin on March 6, 2015, 09:13:04 pm

*snip*

I've no doubt's that Morpheus will be able to deliver a viable experience. Just to have the option of having VR for a console will benefit them greatly, but I still think that what MS is doing with HoloLense is more suited to the platform for the simple fact that it's extremely effective for various ranges of genres of games, and not just specifically for 1st person, which is what the rest of the devices are primarily focused on for obvious reason, that being immersion through a proper sense of place. Could Sony still use augmented reality for their games on Morpheus? Of course, but it's not going to look the same because you'll be looking at your surroundings on a screen with a limited resolution. The success of these things is going to greatly depend on which has the better screen. So long as Sony deliver good games with a proper sense of place for immersion, good latency, and respectable visuals, then no doubt it'll be good. Again, like I say, certain engines will be favoured for this. Those were built to scale to the low end up. Fox Engine and UE4. Games on that, even if they are gimped visually, should still look great and hit the target numbers. Silent Hills will be making use of it, I believe. That will be shit your kecks scary, and provided the headset doesn't make people ill, it'll be a must have experience for a lot of people once they've given it a go.

Macphisto80 · « **Reply #36 on:** March 6, 2015, 10:33:46 pm »

Quote from: Upinsmoke on March 6, 2015, 08:26:05 pm

In short if it works out and all is a success across all platforms, nothing changes. PC gamers shout loudest about immersion and IQ etc (just like they can about AO, 4k, multiple displays, 60 fps>) whilst consoles gamers shout numbers sold.

That's basically how I see it if it works, superior product on pc, superior numbers on console.

Yes, but with this it really is about the power of both the peripheral, and more importantly, the hardware its running on. These things absolutely need performance over anything else, and obviously the more realistic the visuals, the better the experience will be. There's just no other way to say it, but VR on a console will be seriously gimped, or at least always be the inferior experience regardless of how good a game is or not. You absolutely need that 120hz and over refresh rate; then there's resolution, which in normal circumstances, isn't really that important in context to how a game plays, but here it's everything coupled with the performance, which again, needs to be 60fps. That's a lofty requirement that needs fulfilled for almost every game, and then there's the latency issues for motion sickness and that. Sony have a lot to get right.

Upinsmoke · « **Reply #37 on:** March 6, 2015, 10:49:15 pm »

I completely agree mate but the situation Sony find themselves in is very different to what Valve and HTC do. There kinda pigeon-holed in by a few factors, whereas the PC market isn't.

They have to strike a balance between getting the VR product running silky smooth whilst still putting out high quality software to run alongside it.

Lets not kid ourselves either about PC, your gonna need an expensive system to get the most out of that too. What will a heavily modified version of skyrim run like alongside a VR headset?

*that is actually jizz worthy*

But seriously what kind of power will be required to run a really graphically intensive game on PC alongside the Valve VR?

Haemoglobin · « **Reply #38 on:** March 6, 2015, 11:26:32 pm »

Quote from: Macphisto80 on March 6, 2015, 10:22:20 pm

Silent Hills will be making use of it, I believe. That will be shit your kecks scary, and provided the headset doesn't make people ill, it'll be a must have experience for a lot of people once they've given it a go.

Mate, fuck that. I honestly have never gone back to P.T. since my first few experiences with it, because I just can't pluck up the courage - I look at the other games in my library and just start playing them instead, use that as my excuse. I'd only ever consider playing it in the most effective environment, out of respect (complete darkness, surround headphones on), but whenever the time's right I get close to putting it on but then think... ah, nope.

If Silent Hills in VR is anything like that, it'd probably be a case of buy it, play it a bit, then ritually bury it somewhere several miles from your home so it can never get you in your sleep

Haemoglobin · « **Reply #39 on:** March 6, 2015, 11:44:46 pm »

Actually, come to think of it, developers could deliberately use the nauseating effect of poorly-optimised VR in parts of their game to give players a uniquely visceral sense of disorientation, to mimic intoxication or a fainting feeling when your character is very low on health or in a state of sheer bewildered terror.

How cool would that be? A game so horrific and sensorily stressful, it makes players actually faint and throw up, like naive cinemagoers did in the aisles when shit like Alien sent their tiny minds west. Might be a few lawsuits these days, mind.