Author Topic: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24  (Read 76867 times)

Offline Prof

  • fessor Yaffle. Full tosser.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,977
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
    • The Alternative Premier League Table
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #480 on: April 3, 2024, 10:47:00 am »
Sorry for the late post, I got a bit distracted doing this...

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=317882.msg19377159#msg19377159

 ;D

Offline Hunts Cross

  • but Cech's furious.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,208
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #481 on: April 3, 2024, 01:49:01 pm »
It is interesting that the Alternative table feels a lot more comfortable and the regular table seems.

Online farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,643
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #482 on: April 3, 2024, 06:05:43 pm »
The next three rounds of games would be crucial. In the first, all three title contenders play for par 3, one can only drop APLT points. On paper, we have the easiest opponent, City - the hardest. City cannot afford to drop points vs Villa. All three teams have par 1s in the following round with us having the hardest game on paper. The third round is all par 3s again with City and Arsenal swapping opponents, Arse playing Villa. Three must win games for us, I'd say, and we tighten the grip. Come on Villa!
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Offline Prof

  • fessor Yaffle. Full tosser.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,977
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
    • The Alternative Premier League Table
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #483 on: April 4, 2024, 10:51:08 pm »





Offline Ray K

  • Loves a shiny helmet. The new IndyKalia.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,740
  • Truthiness
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #484 on: April 4, 2024, 10:56:39 pm »


I know it's not the important part, but Man Utd falling under the bottom of the chart then sticking their head back up again for a glimpse at week 24-25 before sliding back down again is very funny to me  :D
"We have to change from doubters to believers"

Twitter: @rjkelly75

Offline Anthony

  • Snot a Sailing Specialist. Has not signed for Manchester United. Misses Santa's knee!!!!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,322
  • We don't need anyone to tell us this is golden...
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #485 on: April 4, 2024, 11:00:40 pm »
I know it's not the important part, but Man Utd falling under the bottom of the chart then sticking their head back up again for a glimpse at week 24-25 before sliding back down again is very funny to me  :D

Corner turned...! ;D
"We will win the European Cup one day. Aim for the moon and end up among the stars" - Gérard Houllier 2001

Thankyou Rafa and Jürgen  for taking us to Heaven!

"Hicks could have purchased Dallas' MLS franchise but decided not to. 'In hindsight, I probably made the wrong decision' he said" - Sports Illustrated/AP 2007

Online farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,643
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #486 on: April 4, 2024, 11:12:05 pm »
There was a time (most of the time until now) when I thought Villa would be nailed on for 4th... Not so sure anymore.
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Online farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,643
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #487 on: April 4, 2024, 11:13:32 pm »
I know it's not the important part, but Man Utd falling under the bottom of the chart then sticking their head back up again for a glimpse at week 24-25 before sliding back down again is very funny to me  :D
They were in Champions form that week 25...
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Offline gazzam1963

  • RAWK Cruiser. Andy@Allertons twin brother. Really misses a good fist pump.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,801
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #488 on: April 5, 2024, 07:55:24 am »
Beating united on Sunday would be huge in here , we’ve all got par 1s

Offline Qston

  • Loves a bit of monkey tennis and especially loves a bit of sausage relief......singularly though #sausage
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,240
  • Believer
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #489 on: April 5, 2024, 08:07:26 am »
I know it's not the important part, but Man Utd falling under the bottom of the chart then sticking their head back up again for a glimpse at week 24-25 before sliding back down again is very funny to me  :D

And to me. "(Insert name) Woz Ere" vibes
"Just a normal lad from Liverpool whose dream has just come true" Trent June 1st 2019

Offline Prof

  • fessor Yaffle. Full tosser.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,977
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
    • The Alternative Premier League Table
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #490 on: April 5, 2024, 09:07:38 am »
Beating united on Sunday would be huge in here , we’ve all got par 1s
Very much our bogie side, and away from home makes it even worse.  They'll also see it as their biggest game of the season.

Offline Knight

  • No one understands football like me.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,987
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #491 on: April 5, 2024, 09:38:40 am »
Beating united on Sunday would be huge in here , we’ve all got par 1s

Yeah this weekend is huge. Surely there’s no way all 3 teams win.

Offline stonecold_jpm

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,141
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #492 on: April 5, 2024, 10:41:59 am »
Shows how Arsenal’s run has been easy the 2nd half of the season and just running to par. Their first chance in a long while for their line to move upwards, will they take the opportunity? It’s also strange how we’ve had a big gap for the majority of the season apart from a few weeks yet it’s never been translated into the real league table, it has to level out soon surely?

Offline killer-heels

  • Hates everyone and everything. Including YOU! Negativity not just for Christmas. Thinks 'irony' means 'metallic'......
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 76,301
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #493 on: April 5, 2024, 11:19:40 am »
Beating united on Sunday would be huge in here , we’ve all got par 1s

Think you will find that our challenge ends at the Theatre of Dreams.

Offline sminp

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,810
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #494 on: April 5, 2024, 02:40:16 pm »
There was a time (most of the time until now) when I thought Villa would be nailed on for 4th... Not so sure anymore.

I think Champions League is probably gonna go to top 5 anyway in which case Spurs and Villa can both probably look forward to Champions League football next season.
My Betfair referal code for anyone who wants it: R6K4MTAQM (You get a £25 free bet)

"Liverpool are magic, Everton are tragic."
"It was like playing in a foreign country." Ian Rush on his time with Juventus in Italy
"Don't worry Alan. At least you'll be able to play close to a great team!" Bill Shankly to A

Offline JC the Messiah

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,627
  • ♪ ...and now Jürgen-a believe us... ♬
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #495 on: April 5, 2024, 02:49:20 pm »
United will be too  much for us on Sunday. They scored 3 yesterday and came back from being 2-0 down. Worrying form for our struggling side who couldn't hold a 1-0 lead against the bottom side.
"I said to the boys before the game it would be impossible. But because it’s you, I say we have a chance."
Jürgen Klopp, 7 May 2019

"I told them if we score it will be different. We scored. It was different."
Rafael Benitez, 25 May 2005

Offline Brian Blessed

  • Gordon's ALIVE? Practically Bear Grylls. Backwards Bluesman Bastard.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 44,174
  • Super Title: Feedback Tourist #4
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #496 on: April 5, 2024, 05:30:13 pm »
Shows how Arsenal’s run has been easy the 2nd half of the season and just running to par. Their first chance in a long while for their line to move upwards, will they take the opportunity? It’s also strange how we’ve had a big gap for the majority of the season apart from a few weeks yet it’s never been translated into the real league table, it has to level out soon surely?

Arsenal could have gone up last Sunday, but they played for a draw.

If results go to par, the real table will soon reflect the APLT.
Anyone else being strangely drawn to Dion Dublin's nipples?

Offline Brian Blessed

  • Gordon's ALIVE? Practically Bear Grylls. Backwards Bluesman Bastard.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 44,174
  • Super Title: Feedback Tourist #4
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #497 on: April 6, 2024, 07:33:53 pm »
Yeah this weekend is huge. Surely there’s no way all 3 teams win.

Well, that’s is fucked. Inevitable, really.
Anyone else being strangely drawn to Dion Dublin's nipples?

Offline johnny74

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,722
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #498 on: April 6, 2024, 09:47:01 pm »
I don't see us winning at Old Trafford. And that would effectively be the end of the title challenge.

Draw obviously not good enough. We have to win every remaining game.

Offline Heritage

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 189
  • Boot Room Fanatic
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #499 on: April 7, 2024, 07:03:42 am »
Good news is I do see us winning at Old Trafford
🔥97🔥

🏆 x 42

Offline Knight

  • No one understands football like me.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,987
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #500 on: April 7, 2024, 07:08:28 am »
I don't see us winning at Old Trafford. And that would effectively be the end of the title challenge.

Draw obviously not good enough. We have to win every remaining game.

It wouldn’t be effectively the end of our title challenge. With a draw we’ll still be ahead of City. And City are still the most likely to win out. I do think anything other than a win would be really, really bad though. We’ve got the chance, especially with CL quarters over the next few weeks, to apply lots of pressure to Arsenal and City. But we need to be ahead in order to do that.

Offline Knight

  • No one understands football like me.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,987
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #501 on: April 7, 2024, 07:08:59 am »
Well, that’s is fucked. Inevitable, really.

Yeah I take it back. Obviously all 3 teams will win this weekend :)

Offline Kloppage Time

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 370
  • ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠⊙⁠_⁠ʖ⁠⊙⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #502 on: April 7, 2024, 07:51:43 am »
Think you will find that our challenge ends at the Theatre of Dreams.

Where's that?
Anyone can have a good day, but you have to be able to perform on a bad day.

Jurgen Klopp

Offline gazzam1963

  • RAWK Cruiser. Andy@Allertons twin brother. Really misses a good fist pump.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,801
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #503 on: April 7, 2024, 05:34:25 pm »
Point for par , getting tight now just like the real table we should have been celebrating getting back on the 90 point mark

Online farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,643
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #504 on: April 7, 2024, 06:51:36 pm »
Good news is I do see us winning at Old Trafford
Yeah I take it back. Obviously all 3 teams will win this weekend :)
You should learn from this, no more of this stuff here please! Mockers and all that...
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Offline latortuga

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,130
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #505 on: April 8, 2024, 01:24:10 am »
You should learn from this, no more of this stuff here please! Mockers and all that...

A jinx is like a prayer...if it doesn't get answered the first time, why keep doing it?


Offline Prof

  • fessor Yaffle. Full tosser.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,977
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
    • The Alternative Premier League Table
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #506 on: April 8, 2024, 08:53:53 pm »





Offline redforlife

  • For future reference an equals sign looks like this: =
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,726
  • We Are Liverpool
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #507 on: April 8, 2024, 09:01:19 pm »
Still looking good
Didi Hamann

In the corridors and changing rooms of Anfield I met many people - the great, the talented, the legendary.  I know that I only met one genius.  He was a small, smiling man with a neatly clipped beard.  His name was Rafael Benitez.

Offline Kashinoda

  • More broken biscuits than made of crisps
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,900
  • ....mmm
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #508 on: April 8, 2024, 09:18:00 pm »
APLT Par 1 games: Arsenal (3), City (3), Liverpool (2)
Average Opponent PPG: Arsenal (1.54), City (1.46), Liverpool (1.45)

TeamOpponentH/ADateDayTimeAPLTOpp PPG
CityLutonHApr-13Saturday3:00 PM30.63
LiverpoolCrystal PalaceHApr-14Sunday2:00 PM30.88
ArsenalAston VillaHApr-14Sunday4:30 PM31.56
ArsenalWolvesAApr-20Saturday7:30 PM11.60
LiverpoolFulhamAApr-21Sunday4:30 PM11.75
ArsenalChelseaHApr-23Tuesday8:00 PM31.27
LiverpoolEvertonAApr-24Wednesday8:00 PM31.07
CityBrightonAApr-25Thursday8:00 PM11.80
LiverpoolWest HamAApr-27Saturday12:30 PM31.56
ArsenalTottenhamAApr-28Sunday2:00 PM12.25
CityForestAApr-28Sunday4:30 PM31.19
ArsenalBournemouthHMay-04Saturday12:30 PM31.20
CityWolvesHMay-04Saturday5:30 PM31.13
LiverpoolTottenhamHMay-05Sunday4:30 PM31.60
ArsenalManchester United*AMay-11Saturday5:30 PM11.73
CityFulham*AMay-11Sunday2:00 PM11.75
LiverpoolAston Villa*AMay-11Sunday4:30 PM12.19
CityTottenham*AMay-15Wednesday8:00 PM12.25
ArsenalEvertonHMay-19Sunday4:00 PM31.19
CityWest HamHMay-19Sunday4:00 PM31.44
LiverpoolWolvesHMay-19Sunday4:00 PM31.13
« Last Edit: April 8, 2024, 09:20:21 pm by Kashinoda »
:D

Offline stonecold_jpm

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,141
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #509 on: April 8, 2024, 10:11:11 pm »
So the first chance anyone has of overtaking us on this since game-week 3 is Arsenal on game-week 35 whilst City would in the last midweek. That gives me  a bit of confidence back looking at previous years graphs. The anomaly is City’s run in 18/19 to overtake us which Arsenal would have to match and I still don’t believe they are as good as either of us were that season.

Offline BoRed

  • BoRing
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,872
  • BoRac
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #510 on: April 8, 2024, 10:45:52 pm »
So the first chance anyone has of overtaking us on this since game-week 3 is Arsenal on game-week 35 whilst City would in the last midweek. That gives me  a bit of confidence back looking at previous years graphs. The anomaly is City’s run in 18/19 to overtake us which Arsenal would have to match and I still don’t believe they are as good as either of us were that season.

Arsenal can overtake us this weekend if we lose to Palace.

I'm guessing you mean if we play to par?

Offline latortuga

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,130
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #511 on: April 9, 2024, 01:38:42 am »
So the first chance anyone has of overtaking us on this since game-week 3 is Arsenal on game-week 35 whilst City would in the last midweek. That gives me  a bit of confidence back looking at previous years graphs. The anomaly is City’s run in 18/19 to overtake us which Arsenal would have to match and I still don’t believe they are as good as either of us were that season.

I was of a similar opinion to you on Arsenal.

However, if you overlay their xG data to both ours and Man City's over a similar time frame in that season and in fact Arsenal's form is actually as good if not better in some regards.

Just to be clear, Man City's finish to that season was winning 18 of 19 games in the final half of the season, so if you go back to the start of that run and do a similar comparison to Arsenal's run at that same point this season you get the following data...

18/19
Man City - xG 30.54 / xGA 7.54
Liverpool - xG 28.46 / xGA 8.67

23/24
Arsenal - xG 28.11 / xGA 6.61
Liverpool - xG 36.09 / xGA 13.16
Man City - xG 28.13 / 12.91

Arsenal's defensive numbers are superior to both ours and City's in 18/19, while their expected goals number isn't that far off either of ours or City's.  I'd argue in an aggregate sense they are on par given they are giving up less expected goals which in turn means scoring less - that is generally the nature of things.

As a side note, when you look at our numbers this season the burning question has to be, why can't we find more balance in our play between scoring a bit less and conceding a bit less?  I'm sure that's easier said than done, or Klopp would be doing it.  To quote the Godfather ..."this is the business (style) we've chosen" 

Something that occurred to me during this analysis was what about comparing Arsenal to our best season when we actually won the title, controlled games like a boss and blew the competition away.  Well across a similar period our numbers looked as follows...

19/20
Liverpool - xG 26.62 / xGA 12.12

So in actuality this season hasn't been all that dissimilar to our title winning season in terms of goals against, but miles ahead in terms of the chances we are creating.  By way of comparison we are creating even more chances this season than City were last season during the same period and that team went on to win the treble.

Caveat - Yes I'm aware of the deficiencies and flaws of xG and am not arguing that any of the above data can accurately predict the future.    However, if the question is are Arsenal as good as the 18/19 version of Liverpool or Man City then in a xG sense the answer so far is yes.

Draw your own conclusions.  8)

Offline stonecold_jpm

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,141
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #512 on: April 9, 2024, 02:13:57 am »
Arsenal can overtake us this weekend if we lose to Palace.

I'm guessing you mean if we play to par?

Yep if we beat Palace to par and don’t lose to Fulham then they can’t overtake us till the week they play Spurs right?
« Last Edit: April 9, 2024, 02:17:19 am by stonecold_jpm »

Offline stonecold_jpm

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,141
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #513 on: April 9, 2024, 02:25:07 am »
I was of a similar opinion to you on Arsenal.

However, if you overlay their xG data to both ours and Man City's over a similar time frame in that season and in fact Arsenal's form is actually as good if not better in some regards.

Just to be clear, Man City's finish to that season was winning 18 of 19 games in the final half of the season, so if you go back to the start of that run and do a similar comparison to Arsenal's run at that same point this season you get the following data...

18/19
Man City - xG 30.54 / xGA 7.54
Liverpool - xG 28.46 / xGA 8.67

23/24
Arsenal - xG 28.11 / xGA 6.61
Liverpool - xG 36.09 / xGA 13.16
Man City - xG 28.13 / 12.91

Arsenal's defensive numbers are superior to both ours and City's in 18/19, while their expected goals number isn't that far off either of ours or City's.  I'd argue in an aggregate sense they are on par given they are giving up less expected goals which in turn means scoring less - that is generally the nature of things.

As a side note, when you look at our numbers this season the burning question has to be, why can't we find more balance in our play between scoring a bit less and conceding a bit less?  I'm sure that's easier said than done, or Klopp would be doing it.  To quote the Godfather ..."this is the business (style) we've chosen" 

Something that occurred to me during this analysis was what about comparing Arsenal to our best season when we actually won the title, controlled games like a boss and blew the competition away.  Well across a similar period our numbers looked as follows...

19/20
Liverpool - xG 26.62 / xGA 12.12

So in actuality this season hasn't been all that dissimilar to our title winning season in terms of goals against, but miles ahead in terms of the chances we are creating.  By way of comparison we are creating even more chances this season than City were last season during the same period and that team went on to win the treble.

Caveat - Yes I'm aware of the deficiencies and flaws of xG and am not arguing that any of the above data can accurately predict the future.    However, if the question is are Arsenal as good as the 18/19 version of Liverpool or Man City then in a xG sense the answer so far is yes.

Draw your own conclusions.  8)

There defensive numbers have been on point all season but up until the end of January they were having the same issues we’ve had recently were they was struggling to score and finish off games despite having plenty of chances. Then they stuffed Palace at home and got that win over us and haven’t stopped scoring since, and I don’t think they are doing anything any different than they were doing before. So hopefully we can stuff Palace and do exactly the same!

Offline BoRed

  • BoRing
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,872
  • BoRac
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #514 on: April 9, 2024, 09:43:22 am »
Yep if we beat Palace to par and don’t lose to Fulham then they can’t overtake us till the week they play Spurs right?

Yes, if we play to par, they need to win two par-1s to overtake us.

Offline johnny74

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,722
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #515 on: April 9, 2024, 09:22:47 pm »
It wouldn’t be effectively the end of our title challenge. With a draw we’ll still be ahead of City. And City are still the most likely to win out. I do think anything other than a win would be really, really bad though. We’ve got the chance, especially with CL quarters over the next few weeks, to apply lots of pressure to Arsenal and City. But we need to be ahead in order to do that.

Did you ruin my mockers sir?

Offline courty61

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,940
  • Never Buy The S*n
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #516 on: April 14, 2024, 06:45:36 pm »
Well. Still top of this league. But feel like I've seen this movie before
77, 78, 81, 84, 05, 19

Offline stonecold_jpm

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,141
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24
« Reply #517 on: April 14, 2024, 08:00:54 pm »
Well nobody’s near to 90 points now so it’s the only hope we have that it may not be done just yet.