Topic: Mancs away 13/5 if their fans permit it

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

Anyone else think G Nev is using Sky Sports as a soap box, to rile up the fans into a frenzy to get rid of the owners, then him & his Posse will ride in on white horses and take over as the saviors of Utd?

Gary Neville driving his own agenda? Surely not.
Not sure he's ever done anything like that before.

[Red Beret]

Clarified for historical accuracy.

Yeah.  I kind of meant that Chelsea put the game on life support, then City basically killed it.

[Bobinhood]

I am not siding with their idiot fans. I have been to Old Trafford enough times to know how vile their support can be. I am siding with MUST who have joined forces with SoS and are pushing for the same things.

This is what MUST want.

1. Willingly and openly engage and promote the government initiated fan-led review of football and use this as an opportunity to rebalance the current ownership structure in the favour of supporters and not approach this review defensively to fight for the status quo

2. Appoint independent directors to the board whose sole purpose is to protect the interest of the club as a football club, not its shareholders and their focus on profits over results

3. Work with the Manchester United Supporters Trust and supporters more broadly to put in place a share scheme that is accessible to all and that has shares with the same voting rights as those held by the Glazer family

4. Commit to full consultation with season ticket holders on any significant changes to the future of our club, including the competitions we play in

5. Provide a commitment by Joel Glazer that any costs incurred in relation to the creation of, or withdrawal from, the European Super League will be funded solely by the Glazer family and not by the club itself. We note that the Kroenke family have already made this commitment to Arsenal fans.

AL remembered # 5 when hungover MUSTy forgot about it in the document they actually entitled  "the morning after the night before". Nice.


Here is how the glazers read this

1 fund a lobbying effort to create legislation that will kick you out

2 meantime appoint a fan group with veto power on everything you do

3  sell all your shares dirt cheap to supporters until you are outvoted at a minimum

4 inform us of every plan you have for approval that will be withheld on principal unless its buying sancho

5 quit taking money out of the club and put some in instead


Laudable goals no doubt but in what universe will the Glazers even read that through before they pitch it in the bin?

[Coolie High]

Football makes a hypocrite of all of us.

The last few weeks are clear evidence of that whichever way you look. The last few weeks are just a magnified version of the hypocrisy, tribalism and whataboutery that has been present for years and allowed football to get to its current state. That’s not aimed just at pundits, or journalists or 1 set of supporters. It’s pretty much everyone involved in football.

Can agree with this.

[Eeyore]

AL remembered # 5 when hungover MUSTy forgot about it in the document they actually entitled  "the morning after the night before". Nice.


Here is how the glazers read this

1 fund a lobbying effort to create legislation that will kick you out

2 meantime appoint a fan group with veto power on everything you do

3  sell all your shares dirt cheap to supporters until you are outvoted at a minimum

4 inform us of every plan you have for approval that will be withheld on principal unless its buying sancho

5 quit taking money out of the club and put some in instead


Laudable goals no doubt but in what universe will the Glazers even read that through before they pitch it in the bin?

1. They are not being asked to fund a lobbying effort. They are being asked to co-operate with a government based fan led review of the game.

2. They are asking for Independent directors not a veto.

3. They are not asking the Glazers to sell their shares on the cheap. United are already listed on the New York Stock Exchange but those shares have no voting rights.

4. They are asking to be consulted when the Club wants to make major changes.

5. What they are asking for is that any costs associated with their botched ESL plan to be met by the Glazers themselves and not the club.

[Fromola]

[Smellytrabs]

Of all the hypocrisy in this thread, this might be the best bit

There’s an orange faced chap across the Atlantic who agrees with your method of ‘protest’

Linking people to the politics of fascism because they chose methods of direction action? Got to love the bourgeois liberal hot takes. 

[Dave McCoy]

As posted in the ManC thread it turns out ManC has been fighting the PL this whole time over their FFP shenanigans.  Let me know when Neville ways in on what this means for the Saviors of football....

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Linking people to the politics of fascism because they chose methods of direction action? Got to love the bourgeois liberal hot takes. 

[Uncle Ronnie]

As posted in the ManC thread it turns out ManC has been fighting the PL this whole time over their FFP shenanigans.  Let me know when Neville ways in on what this means for the Saviors of football....

He probably thinks they were duped into it just like they were the super league, the poor dears

[Bobinhood]

1. They are not being asked...

What i outline is what i believe they will interpret that document as really saying/meaning.

[Bobinhood]

1. They are not being asked to fund a lobbying effort. They are being asked to co-operate with a government based fan led review of the game.

..."use this as an opportunity to rebalance the current ownership structure in the favour of supporters"....

2. They are asking for Independent directors not a veto.

..."whose sole purpose is to protect the interest of the club as a football club, not its shareholders and their focus on profits over results"...

3. They are not asking the Glazers to sell their shares on the cheap. United are already listed on the New York Stock Exchange but those shares have no voting rights.

"put in place a share scheme that is accessible to all .... with the same voting rights "

4. They are asking to be consulted when the Club wants to make major changes.

..."Commit to full consultation with seasons tickets holders"...

5. What they are asking for is that any costs associated with their botched ESL plan to be met by the Glazers themselves and not the club.

"...Costs incurred....will be funded solely by the Glazer family "

Im not saying all those requests are terrible things but how they will be viewed by the Glazers is basically as laughable and most wont be considered for a mili-second.

[Eeyore]

Im not saying all those requests are terrible things but how they will be viewed by the Glazers is basically as laughable and most wont be considered for a mili-second.

Were the Glazers laughing when the game was called off. Will the Glazers be laughing when fans are back in Stadiums and protesting.

[CraigDS]

Were the Glazers laughing when the game was called off. Will the Glazers be laughing when fans are back in Stadiums and protesting.

I doubt they'll really give two shits to be honest as long as the share price stays strong.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Were the Glazers laughing when the game was called off. Will the Glazers be laughing when fans are back in Stadiums and protesting.

Why wouldn't they be?

[stockdam]

Were the Glazers laughing when the game was called off. Will the Glazers be laughing when fans are back in Stadiums and protesting.

They probably did have a quiet snigger.

In the immortal words of Sir Gary of Nevilleland........

Are they the worst owners in football? No. Are they the best? No. The idea of screaming about the Glazers every ten minutes, saying they are not good owners, doesn't get us anywhere.

"I'd love owners that pump every penny back into the club on to the pitch, that didn't take out £20 million a year, or whatever they take out in debt against the club. But I can't do anything about it.

"Just stand there and campaign and whinge? Stand on the front of Old Trafford in front of Best, Law and Charlton with my placard up saying 'Glazers out?' I'm not going to do that because I haven't got the solution."


So what’s your solution now Gary? What changed other than you see a chance to somehow get your dream of having a say over the way United is run.

Or how about some quotes from SAF:

"I am comfortable with the Glazer situation. They have been great. They have always backed me whenever I have asked them. I have never faced any opposition.

"They have always been as sensible as they can be in terms of financing the club. They have to invest in the team to maintain the value of their asset. I think there are a whole lot of factions at United that think they own the club.

"They will always be contentious about whoever owns the club, and that's the way it's always been. When the Glazers took over here there was dissatisfaction, so there have always been pockets of supporters who have their views.

"But I think the majority of real fans will look at it realistically and say it's not affecting the team. We've won four championships since they've been there, one European Cup."

Everything was rosey and lovely until the trophies dried up. No problem with the Glazers when they were winning. Now it appears to be about “the good of football”. My arse it is.

[Eeyore]

I doubt they'll really give two shits to be honest as long as the share price stays strong.

In 2018 United shares were trading at $26 they are now worth $17.

[Eeyore]

They probably did have a quiet snigger.

In the immortal words of Sir Gary of Nevilleland........

Are they the worst owners in football? No. Are they the best? No. The idea of screaming about the Glazers every ten minutes, saying they are not good owners, doesn't get us anywhere.

"I'd love owners that pump every penny back into the club on to the pitch, that didn't take out £20 million a year, or whatever they take out in debt against the club. But I can't do anything about it.

"Just stand there and campaign and whinge? Stand on the front of Old Trafford in front of Best, Law and Charlton with my placard up saying 'Glazers out?' I'm not going to do that because I haven't got the solution."


So what’s your solution now Gary? What changed other than you see a chance to somehow get your dream of having a say over the way United is run.

Or how about some quotes from SAF:

"I am comfortable with the Glazer situation. They have been great. They have always backed me whenever I have asked them. I have never faced any opposition.

"They have always been as sensible as they can be in terms of financing the club. They have to invest in the team to maintain the value of their asset. I think there are a whole lot of factions at United that think they own the club.

"They will always be contentious about whoever owns the club, and that's the way it's always been. When the Glazers took over here there was dissatisfaction, so there have always been pockets of supporters who have their views.

"But I think the majority of real fans will look at it realistically and say it's not affecting the team. We've won four championships since they've been there, one European Cup."

Everything was rosey and lovely until the trophies dried up. No problem with the Glazers when they were winning. Now it appears to be about “the good of football”. My arse it is.

If everything was rosy then why were Ratboy and Ferguson commenting about fan protests ?

[stockdam]

Or more from our beloved Gary N.

“I can’t change the ownership of United, no one can. I’m struggling to understand why the ownership have persisted in trusting that management team to oversee the building of a Premier League title winning team since Sir Alex left,” he told the Gary Neville Podcast.

“I saw a statistic two weeks ago that United have the second-highest wage bill in the world. And that’s the squad they’ve got. It’s unforgivable. It really is.”


“I can’t believe the investment that’s been put into the squad in the last five, six, seven years and you end up with that out on the pitch.

“If you don’t lose your job for essentially overseeing that investment, that wage bill, and putting that team out on the pitch then I have to say something is really wrong.

“There’s real talent in that executive team … but in terms of what the club needed to do for a number of years now is put the best in class football operators into that club and they’re not doing it. They’re not doing it and it’s a mess.”



The bold bit is the problem. Nothing about the Glazers not spending money. He hit the nail on the head saying that they have spunked all the money, the lovely money, against the wall.


But suddenly it’s the Glazers fault for not allowing more money to be wasted.

Let’s call it for what it is. This is a smokescreen to try to get owners in who will give them even more money. It’s not about how bad the Glazers are. Read the bold bit again and tell me that this is about saving the game.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

In 2018 United shares were trading at $26 they are now worth $17.

And ?  Not 24hrs ago your argument was that the price will have dropped since the cancellation of the game,good to see that you've moved on from that.

You must have hero status over on redcaf.

[stockdam]

If everything was rosy then why were Ratboy and Ferguson commenting about fan protests ?

Read it again. Yes they were saying that there was discontent but in the words of SAF:

“But I think the majority of real fans will look at it realistically and say it's not affecting the team. We've won four championships since they've been there, one European Cup."

[CraigDS]

In 2018 United shares were trading at $26 they are now worth $17.

And? It was a peak but it's certainly not averaged around that since they floated.

[Wabaloolah]

And ?  Not 24hrs ago your argument was that the price will have dropped since the cancellation of the game,good to see that you've moved on from that.

You must have hero status over on redcaf.

he's flip flopping again, not like Al that

[WhereAngelsPlay]

he's flip flopping again, not like Al that

The best one was him calling for solidarity & then not 2hrs later saying that nobody had called for solidarity 

[Eeyore]

And ?  Not 24hrs ago your argument was that the price will have dropped since the cancellation of the game,good to see that you've moved on from that.

You must have hero status over on redcaf.

United's share price has dropped by nearly 2% over the last few days.

[Wabaloolah]

The best one was him calling for solidarity & then not 2hrs later saying that nobody had called for solidarity 

[CraigDS]

United's share price has dropped by nearly 2% over the last few days.

Which is nothing.

[Wabaloolah]

United's share price has dropped by nearly 2% over the last few days.

Share prices rise, share prices fall it's the way the stock market works

[Zlen]

Is this match going to happen or are we collectively waiting for Manchester United to tell us what suits them best?

[Eeyore]

The best one was him calling for solidarity & then not 2hrs later saying that nobody had called for solidarity 

Solidarity with MUST but not with the idiots.

[TSC]

Is it still silence from the PL?  Maybe they’re discussing with MU when this match should be played that would be convenient for MU.

[Andy82lfc]

In 2018 United shares were trading at $26 they are now worth $17.

They where also $13 6 months ago and have gone up almost 25% since then.

Cherry picking dates of dips and all time highs does not give a clear view of a stock. 

[Wabaloolah]

Is it still silence from the PL?  Maybe they’re discussing with MU when this match should be played that would be convenient for MU.

They are probably waiting until City seal the PL trophy officially and we are unable to get 4th and then quietly award us the three points and dock a couple of points from Utd but not enough so it stops them getting second place

[Eeyore]

They where also $13 6 months ago and have gone up almost 25% since then.

Cherry picking dates of dips and all time highs does not give a clear view of a stock. 

Part of that rise though was the Glazers buying back shares from the market to prop up their share price.

[CraigDS]

Part of that rise though was the Glazers buying back shares from the market to prop up their share price.

Wait, didn't one of them announce in early March he was selling a shed load?

[TSC]

They are probably waiting until City seal the PL trophy officially and we are unable to get 4th and then quietly award us the three points and dock a couple of points from Utd but not enough so it stops them getting second place

Wouldn’t surprise anyone if that happened.

[Fromola]

They are probably waiting until City seal the PL trophy officially and we are unable to get 4th and then quietly award us the three points and dock a couple of points from Utd but not enough so it stops them getting second place

There's still a lot of money at stake between finishing 5th or 6th and 7th or 8th with European qualification and league placings.

Award us the 3-0 win and let us finish a point above Everton. Finally a bit of karma in a wretched season.

[JP-65]

They where also $13 6 months ago and have gone up almost 25% since then.

Cherry picking dates of dips and all time highs does not give a clear view of a stock. 

Yup, NYSE peaked 4 trading days ago, so a majority of stocks are down....amazing that isn't it?

[Son of Spion]

I refer to it as the day football was privatised.

You're right, it's not coming back.  It's dead and gone and the mutated filth that remains is rapidly accelerating.  Nobody is rising up to reclaim it.

Fans are taken for mugs because of their emotional investment into decades - centuries - of storied history in their clubs.  19/6 etc etc.  The "Wall of Champions" is a hook with which to catch the new generation.

Oddly enough, I don't blame FSG for that.  They are what they are.  They may have pushed for the ESL, but there are worse offenders out there.  In a footballing world where money talks, it's get on the boat or be left behind. Like when you're running but your momentum starts threatening to trip you over.

To quote the movie War Games - "The only winning move is not to play".  The moment City came in, the game - which was already on life support - became brain dead.  We've been loving a living corpse for the best part of 15 years, hoping against hope that every hand squeeze or eye twitch under the lid was a sign of life.

If we want football back, we have to stop caring.  We have to stop caring what happens with these clubs, with our club.  We have to give up on what the top tier has become, and abandon it.  But we wont, because we know that they know we can and will be easily replaced.  And we're too stubborn to give them the satisfaction.

bit of a ramble there, apologies.

An excellent reply, not a ramble at all. Right on the money, too. As was Howard's slight amendment.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Wolfie Neville


https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/16/gary-neville-defends-glazer-family-criticism-manchester-united-fans-11166738/


Gary Neville admits he will never protest against the Glazer family and their ownership of Manchester United.

The Glazers took control of United as part of a £790 million takeover in 2005 but the club have been saddled with a huge debt ever since.

United supporters are now urging the Glazer family to sell following the club’s decline during their reign.

But Neville believes that new owners could provide even more problems for United.

‘Are they the worst owners in football? No. Are they the best? No,’ Neville said in an interview with The Times.

‘My biggest problem with the Glazer family over the past seven years is the campaign 2004-06 where Manchester United weren’t successful, Arsene Wenger came in with the Invincibles [Arsenal], Jose [Mourinho] came in [at Chelsea], that’s when there was a real hostility.

‘All of a sudden in 2006 to 2012, where we were getting to three in four Champions League finals, and winning trophies, it went quiet.

‘Then in 2014-15 when we started to get into a period of non-success again, it builds up again.

‘The idea of screaming about the Glazers every ten minutes, saying they are not good owners, doesn’t get us anywhere.

‘I’d love owners that pump every penny back into the club on to the pitch, that didn’t take out £20 million a year, or whatever they take out in debt against the club.

‘But I can’t do anything about it. Just stand there and campaign and whinge? Stand on the front of Old Trafford in front of Best, Law and Charlton with my placard up saying ‘Glazers out?’

‘I’m not going to do that because I haven’t got the solution.’