Topic: Mancs away 13/5 if their fans permit it

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

I don't have a problem with people differentiating between the hypocrisy of Sky and their brain-dead shock jocks who spout garbage just to get views and as you say have laughably portrayed themselves as working class heroes.

Neither do I have a problem with people calling out the brain-dead United fans attacking the Police and singing vile songs.

The bit I find depressing is the negativity around the general movement, and it's successes. For years, we have been told that there is nothing we can do as fans. Well Liverpool fans have already forced a U-turn over ticket prices. Forced the Club to abandon plans to furlough staff.

Fans sticking together forced a u-turn over PBP. Then when the ESL was announced people lined up to say it was a foregone conclusion. The contracts were signed and there was no way the ESL clubs would back down. Instead of fans accepting it the ESL was killed off within days.

When the ESL was stopped the negative people said that would be it. That people would be happy and the Status quo would continue. Instead of that a game was forced to be postponed, FSG have met SOS and Chelsea have agreed to fans at board meetings. The same negative people who said fan representation at board meetings would never happen are now saying that no good will come of it.

The way I see it if people power can bring down the Berlin Wall or create the Arab spring then sorting out the future of our game should be a walk in the park.

My view for what it's worth:
If the fan groups really want to enact change, then why not organise a mass boycott of Sky and BT? The common theme running through this thread is the hypocrisy of Sky and many trace the games current problems back to the original breakaway
Many of us, myself included don't have Sky, but clearly not enough to make a significant difference.

There is such a collective arrogance within the game, that it is common for people to talk about matchday income and broadcasting income as unrelated, when the reality is that it is fans that underwrite both income streams. I saw an agent quoted as saying fans shouldn't complain about wages because it is TV money not gate money that pays the wages. He was either too stupid or too ignorant to make the link.

[Eeyore]

My view for what it's worth:
If the fan groups really want to enact change, then why not organise a mass boycott of Sky and BT? The common theme running through this thread is the hypocrisy of Sky and many trace the games current problems back to the original breakaway
Many of us, myself included don't have Sky, but clearly not enough to make a significant difference.

There is such a collective arrogance within the game, that it is common for people to talk about matchday income and broadcasting income as unrelated, when the reality is that it is fans that underwrite both income streams. I saw an agent quoted as saying fans shouldn't complain about wages because it is TV money not gate money that pays the wages. He was either too stupid or too ignorant to make the link.

It is a tough one. Like you, I do not subscribe to Sky on principle.

However, there are two things.

1. When we get back in to Stadium's then TV broadcasts of demonstrations will be useful.

2. I think we have to be selective about the battles we pick at the moment. We need to build momentum and diversifying the campaign at the moment might not be productive. The simpler the message at this stage the easier it will be to build momentum.

[Bobinhood]

.. Then when the ESL was announced people lined up to say it was a foregone conclusion. The contracts were signed and there was no way the ESL clubs would back down. Instead of fans accepting it the ESL was killed off within days.

When the ESL was stopped the negative people said that would be it. That people would be happy and the Status quo would continue. Instead of that a game was forced to be postponed, FSG have met SOS and Chelsea have agreed to fans at board meetings. The same negative people who said fan representation at board meetings would never happen are now saying that no good will come of it.

I take and agree with your main point that there has been some good wins recently based on people power so why pre judge that populism is doomed to fail, but most of this section is a little dubious. Not many people really thought the esl was a forgone conclusion even though it was presented as such, the postponed game imo at least was not even related and likewise not many said fan representation on boards could never happen, the argument is basically of the opinion that without a vote or veto theres a strong possibility it'll turn out to be just deflection and pr tokenism.

some of the "negativity" may well be unfounded pessimism but some of it may well be founded in basic realism as well.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I don't have a problem with people differentiating between the hypocrisy of Sky and their brain-dead shock jocks who spout garbage just to get views and as you say have laughably portrayed themselves as working class heroes.

Neither do I have a problem with people calling out the brain-dead United fans attacking the Police and singing vile songs.

The bit I find depressing is the negativity around the general movement, and it's successes. For years, we have been told that there is nothing we can do as fans. Well Liverpool fans have already forced a U-turn over ticket prices. Forced the Club to abandon plans to furlough staff.

Fans sticking together forced a u-turn over PBP. Then when the ESL was announced people lined up to say it was a foregone conclusion. The contracts were signed and there was no way the ESL clubs would back down. Instead of fans accepting it the ESL was killed off within days.

When the ESL was stopped the negative people said that would be it. That people would be happy and the Status quo would continue. Instead of that a game was forced to be postponed, FSG have met SOS and Chelsea have agreed to fans at board meetings. The same negative people who said fan representation at board meetings would never happen are now saying that no good will come of it.

The way I see it if people power can bring down the Berlin Wall or create the Arab spring then sorting out the future of our game should be a walk in the park.

But why should clubs like Liverpool, Manchester United, Leicester and Everton and the rest have an unfair advantage over all the other teams.

If true reform is to be had then surely if you are actually socialist in your ideals - all clubs should share and all clubs should benefit?

At the moment, the Premier League is a closed-shop of billionaires across the board.

Better teams get more money and more power and more influence and widen the gap. In a socalist structure for the league - we surely should be looking at a real cascade of riches and power flowing down the whole league and not just this league - all leagues right down to grassroots levels.

Otherwise we're all just hypocrites trying to make things better for us and worse for th have-nots.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

It is a tough one. Like you, I do not subscribe to Sky on principle.

However, there are two things.

1. When we get back in to Stadium's then TV broadcasts of demonstrations will be useful.

2. I think we have to be selective about the battles we pick at the moment. We need to build momentum and diversifying the campaign at the moment might not be productive. The simpler the message at this stage the easier it will be to build momentum.

I think we need to be clear about what we are protesting about and what the objectives are.
If fan representation on boards is the aim, then I'm sorry but I have no confidence that will achieve anything. The big decisions will be made behind the scenes and the meeting will be little more than window dressing.

If we actually want to reform football. Sky is a great starting point.

[Original]

I may have missed an announcement or something that somebody else had mentioned previously so apologies if that's the case but whatever happened to Tony Barrett

[B0151?]

I don't have a problem with people differentiating between the hypocrisy of Sky and their brain-dead shock jocks who spout garbage just to get views and as you say have laughably portrayed themselves as working class heroes.

Neither do I have a problem with people calling out the brain-dead United fans attacking the Police and singing vile songs.

The bit I find depressing is the negativity around the general movement, and it's successes. For years, we have been told that there is nothing we can do as fans. Well Liverpool fans have already forced a U-turn over ticket prices. Forced the Club to abandon plans to furlough staff.

Fans sticking together forced a u-turn over PBP. Then when the ESL was announced people lined up to say it was a foregone conclusion. The contracts were signed and there was no way the ESL clubs would back down. Instead of fans accepting it the ESL was killed off within days.

When the ESL was stopped the negative people said that would be it. That people would be happy and the Status quo would continue. Instead of that a game was forced to be postponed, FSG have met SOS and Chelsea have agreed to fans at board meetings. The same negative people who said fan representation at board meetings would never happen are now saying that no good will come of it.

The way I see it if people power can bring down the Berlin Wall or create the Arab spring then sorting out the future of our game should be a walk in the park.

I would agree with you if United fans were rallying for real fundamental change

Instead it's mostly about them wanting the Glazers to be replaced by someone who'll spend more. Would you disagree with this?

I'm not going to support United fans wanting the Glazers out to be replaced by someone else the same way I'm not going to support Arsenal fans wanting the Spotify guy to takeover from the Kroenkes, or the Newcastle fans wanting Ashley replaced by Saudi Arabia.

They're entitled to protest against their owners but I view the discontent as about wanting to use the ESL as the ignition to get 'better' owners and not about fundamental reform.

[kaesarsosei]

This is going to sound so cynical, but if the Glazer's had not been the owners, United could be out of sight even from City at the minute. How much are they wasting every year on interest/loan payments - Ł100m? Can you imagine if they had the ability to sign at least 2 world class players every year on top of their actual spend? How do we keep up with that?

[CraigDS]

This is going to sound so cynical, but if the Glazer's had not been the owners, United could be out of sight even from City at the minute. How much are they wasting every year on interest/loan payments - Ł100m?

It's averaged out at around Ł42m a year over the last 5 years so not quite as high as Ł100m.

Can you imagine if they had the ability to sign at least 2 world class players every year on top of their actual spend? How do we keep up with that?

You become that, which we're well on the way to becoming... just without the interest & dividend payments.

[Dim Glas]

This is going to sound so cynical, but if the Glazer's had not been the owners, United could be out of sight even from City at the minute. How much are they wasting every year on interest/loan payments - Ł100m? Can you imagine if they had the ability to sign at least 2 world class players every year on top of their actual spend? How do we keep up with that?

?

They spend a shit ton on players, far more than a team who did keep up with and better Abu Dhabi for 3 years.

It isn’t the money they spend that is the problem - it’s the players they spend it on half the time. For every success like Fernandes, there are massive overspends on quite average players like Maguire and Wan Bissaka.

[kennedy81]

I may have missed an announcement or something that somebody else had mentioned previously so apologies if that's the case but whatever happened to Tony Barrett

Why, what happened with Tony?

[Original]

Why, what happened with Tony?

I don't know, that's why I've asked

[lionel_messias]

I don't know, that's why I've asked

What's happened to Tony?

[Andy82lfc]

I don't know, that's why I've asked

What happened to Tony??

[Andy-oh-six]

What’s happened to Tony is a disgrace.

[Samio]

#FreeTony

[Andy @ Allerton!]

#FreeTony

With every packet of Frosties

[Andy-oh-six]

With every packet of Walkers crisps.

Surely Frosties?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Surely Frosties?

My bad

[Suareznumber7]

What’s happened to Tony is a disgrace.

Wait, what happened to Tony?

[Dave McCoy]

?

They spend a shit ton on players, far more than a team who did keep up with and better Abu Dhabi for 3 years.

It isn’t the money they spend that is the problem - it’s the players they spend it on half the time. For every success like Fernandes, there are massive overspends on quite average players like Maguire and Wan Bissaka.

I think ManC does show though that if you have an unlimited budget you eventually do get it right.  Swiss Ramble did a breakdown yesterday which shows the Glazers have spent Ł1bn basically on themselves.  Now maybe it all wouldn't go to players, and it shouldn't, but even adding in another Ł500m and they could basically just keep buying the best players ad infinitum.

[Dr. Beaker]

Ole, Gunner Who? all over the place talking about apologies here, apologies there. No one has fucking apologised to us !

[redgriffin73]

Sod Tony, I still want to know about what Seedorf said about us that time.

[DonkeyWan]

My prayers are for Tony. Sad.

[rawcusk8]

Can someone please provide an update on Tony.

[Dr. Beaker]

Can someone please provide an update on Tony.

He's GREEEEEEEAAAAAAATTTTTTTTT!

[ToneLa]

He's GREEEEEEEAAAAAAATTTTTTTTT!

Ta! 

[rawcusk8]

He's GREEEEEEEAAAAAAATTTTTTTTT!

Haha get out and never darken these servers again. 

[Son of Spion]

I would agree with you if United fans were rallying for real fundamental change

Instead it's mostly about them wanting the Glazers to be replaced by someone who'll spend more. Would you disagree with this?

I'm not going to support United fans wanting the Glazers out to be replaced by someone else the same way I'm not going to support Arsenal fans wanting the Spotify guy to takeover from the Kroenkes, or the Newcastle fans wanting Ashley replaced by Saudi Arabia.

They're entitled to protest against their owners but I view the discontent as about wanting to use the ESL as the ignition to get 'better' owners and not about fundamental reform.

This is exactly what happened on Sunday.

Yes, there are proper, organised, sane fan groups who are hoping to influence positive change within the game, but it was not them on display at the weekend.
What we saw on Sunday were opportunists doing what opportunists do. They identify a wave of discontent (in this case, the ESL) then surf their own agenda on top of it (look at Trump and Frottage for the mindset involved). The overwhelming bulk of the United support simply want different owners in because the current ones are not bankrolling them to the extent that Abu Dhabi are bankrolling their neighbours.

These 'fans' are surfing the ESL wave of discontent to try to force out their owner so they can be the biggest bully again. It's as simple and as transparent as that. They'll hide behind what the saner heads at MUST have said, but the reality is they just want a bigger shark in than their neighbours have got.

I couldn't care less if they protest or what they protest about. That's their business. But fuck me, I wish they'd stop the Trump-esque posturing that it's all about the good of football. It's not. It's all about the good of being a Man United follower.

[Ray K]

@LFC
@ManUtd  and @BurnleyOfficial  fixture dates now confirmed:

vs #MUFC | 13.05.21 | 8.15pm KO  (Thurs)
vs #BFC | 19.05.21 | 8.15pm KO   (Wed)

It means the mancs are playing Sunday / Tues / Thurs (vs us)

[redgriffin73]

Game rearranged for Thursday 13th May.

[swoopy]

Lovely. 48 hours after they play Leicester.

[DelTrotter]

Lovely. 48 hours after they play Leicester.

Not really, they'll just play reserves v Leicester so we get fucked even more. Absolute disgrace we have 3 games in 6 days now because of the actions of their supporters.

[redgriffin73]

Lovely. 48 hours after they play Leicester.

Bet they'll still have fans whining about it.

[Dr. Beaker]

Are our lawyers injured or something?

[LanceLink!!!!!]

They've got 4 games in 8 days. Ouch.

[Romford_Red]

Game rearranged for Thursday 13th May.

What if I'm not available then?

[Ray K]

What if I'm not available then?

Get a manc to walk into the ground and steal some footballs and corner flags, I guess.

[decosabute]

Not really, they'll just play reserves v Leicester so we get fucked even more. Absolute disgrace we have 3 games in 6 days now because of the actions of their supporters.

Fuckin joke

[disgraced cake]

Not a chance Solskjaer will take that Leicester game seriously with Liverpool a couple of days later. They're definitely getting 2nd and have a final place wrapped up.