Author Topic: FC Barcelona  (Read 877189 times)

Offline OOS

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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6880 on: September 1, 2020, 05:32:56 pm »
Rakitic back to Sevilla.
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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6881 on: September 1, 2020, 05:44:48 pm »
Do you often chase roasts, Rushy?

Constantly

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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6882 on: September 1, 2020, 05:51:03 pm »
Since haste quite Schorsch, but Liverpool are genuine fight pigs...

Offline Suareznumber7

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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6883 on: September 1, 2020, 11:39:03 pm »
He's not really a shielding player who protects and disrupts though, a la Fabinho. He's more a transition/ passing player who has more strings to his bow, like a less refined but more adaptable Pirlo. He evades pressure quite magnificently at his best. He shouldn't be allowed anywhere near centre half again though. His passing and his dribbling are two of his best qualities so he should be the pivot midfielder as they're wedded to the three. They should get a specialist deeper midfielder to cover for him.

That being said, I'd be building around De Jong and looking to see if he and Pjanic can effectively operate in tandem given distinct similarities in their games.

Busquets wasn't that type of player either and he did ok.  I honestly don't remember the last time they had a player like that.  They had a player like that in  Mascherano and moved him to cb. 

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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6884 on: September 1, 2020, 11:40:51 pm »
Constantly

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Offline Drinks Sangria

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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6885 on: September 2, 2020, 10:41:00 am »
Busquets wasn't that type of player either and he did ok.  I honestly don't remember the last time they had a player like that.  They had a player like that in  Mascherano and moved him to cb.
Very true, although I wouldn't liken De Jong to Busquets either. He's much more a box-to-box or potentially a regista type. I suppose my point was, he's wasted shielding the defence even if he's the platform to attack from similarly to a peak-Busquets, he needs to be the pivot and have the team built around his ability.
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Offline Jookie

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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6886 on: September 2, 2020, 10:52:53 am »
It’s still a shit league though. Even without Messi (I still think he’ll stay mind) I don’t think it takes a miracle to win the league with the players he’d have (plus whoever he could bring in).

Griezmann
Coutinho                   Dembele
Pjanic Busquets De Jong
Alba Umtitu Lenglet Semedo
Ter Stegen

I don’t think is shit at all in La Liga terms. It’s not like he’s up against peak Real and Atlético.

I agree with this.

I think I'd personally have Pique at centre back rather than Umtiti but that team on paper isn't bad. I think Griezmann would be a much better player if he was the focal point of the attack. I think Coutinho would be a much better player if more of the play funnelled through him, coming off the left hand side. I'd arguably have De Jong as the No.6 and build the midfield around him.

They will be a considerably weaker team without Messi. Suarez, Rakitic, Vidal, Umtiti wouldn't be missed that much. Probably add the likes of Junior Firpo and Braithwaite to that list too. They'd need to buy a few players to pad out the squad -  but they'd have the likes of Sergi Roberto, Araujo, Trincao, Fati, Maheus Fernandes, Puig who have recently signed or played a squad role last season. They also have a few players who are returning from loan - Todibo, Miranda, Alena, Wague, Rafinha etc..

I'm not going to say I know the pros and cons of these younger players but surely some of them added the team you listed above plus a few key signings could make them competitive in La Liga - with or without Messi.
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Offline Drinks Sangria

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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6887 on: September 2, 2020, 11:23:50 am »
Realistically, they should still have the second best squad in La Liga even if they do jettison most of the at-risk players and lose Messi, as mentioned.

The issue I suppose lies in if Simeone can refind the spark at Atleti with a side that's experienced considerable churn but may be starting to feel more settled. I can't see them ever achieving their past heights though.
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Offline Suareznumber7

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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6888 on: September 2, 2020, 11:25:19 am »
Very true, although I wouldn't liken De Jong to Busquets either. He's much more a box-to-box or potentially a regista type. I suppose my point was, he's wasted shielding the defence even if he's the platform to attack from similarly to a peak-Busquets, he needs to be the pivot and have the team built around his ability.

Completely agree with this.  I believe that this was his role at Ajax wasn't it? 

Offline Suareznumber7

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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6889 on: September 2, 2020, 11:28:14 am »
It’s still a shit league though. Even without Messi (I still think he’ll stay mind) I don’t think it takes a miracle to win the league with the players he’d have (plus whoever he could bring in).

Griezmann
Coutinho                   Dembele
Pjanic Busquets De Jong
Alba Umtitu Lenglet Semedo
Ter Stegen

I don’t think is shit at all in La Liga terms. It’s not like he’s up against peak Real and Atlético.

It's actually not a shit league, it's pretty competitive and entertaining to watch although I do agree they don't have any "super" clubs at the moment.  What I mean by that is they don't have a totally dominant team who can win a CL right now. 

That's not a terrible team you posted above but it's the players they have coming on from the bench that's the problem.  They just don't have enough quality depth.  Also, Umtiti's knee is fucked and he's been pretty bad the past year so I'd definitely have Pique in there even if he is past his best. 

Offline Drinks Sangria

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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6890 on: September 2, 2020, 11:42:33 am »
Completely agree with this.  I believe that this was his role at Ajax wasn't it?
Yes, he was used much more as a box-to-box player and built around. Schone was alongside him, shielding and doing the dirty work, essentially just shuttling the ball to De Jong every time he won it back. Van De Beek would play ahead of both, dropping deep to be a wall for De Jong to bounce the ball back off, creating different angles of attack and allowing Ziyech and Tadic to find space behind the players Van De Beek dragged out of position.

I think the Busquets stuff is understandable because of similarities in the way they play, I just think that with De Jong having an engine and a greater passing range (not necessarily better than peak-Busquets over shorter distances), he needs to be used as the main man, not a platform for others, as Busquets was. Which necessitates an additional, more defensive player being alongside De Jong.

At Ajax, something you'd see often is Daley Blind and De Ligt splitting, with fullbacks Tagliafico and Mazraoui pushing into the wide midfield areas. Schone would sit, Van De Beek would bomb on and Tadic would drop deep. The issues this caused for the opposition were numerous - Tadic operating as the centre forward would drag a defender deep with him - creating space for the wingers in behind, or force a midfielder to come out of the middle of the park, giving the full backs more space as they attacked the middle.

Van De Beek's late runs also meant all of a sudden, you had one static defender having to react to his sudden forward movement, pedalling backwards, whilst the other centre half often chased the retreating Tadic further up the field. Ziyech was typically the main beneficiary of this as he'd come in from the left into the gap that was created. De Jong would then hit him with a long ball, or use the full backs who'd taken up the empty midfield space to advance the play, whilst the bamboozled opposition tried to get a grip on exactly who was moving where from Ajax's midfield and wide players.

All of this was only possible because of De Jong's passing range and his ability to hit the player he needed to 9 times out of 10. When it worked, it was an absolute joy to watch, both domestically and in Europe. Go and look at De Jong's all touches video v De Graafschap in 2018 for an idea as to how the above used to work. Ziyech has become the playmaker now and is scoring less, this is due to him not being the main man for getting in behind a defence carved open by De Jong.

Great player and the finest talent Ajax have produced in a long time in my eyes.
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Offline In the Name of Klopp

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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6891 on: September 3, 2020, 11:15:01 pm »
LOL Messi must be laughing his ass off  ;D

Quote
HUGE BREAKING - Catalan police force Los Mossos have claimed there is sufficient evidence to accuse Barcelona president Josep Maria Bartomeu of corruption and personally benefiting from 'Barcagate' scandal, report El Mundo

https://twitter.com/footballespana_/status/1301631604297785345

Quote
Barcelona president Bartomeu accused of corruption by Catalan police
3 September 2020, 22:21

The board of Barcelona president Josep Maria Bartomeu has been accused of corruption by the Catalan police force Los Mossos and allegedly made personal financial gains from the club, report El Mundo.

The allegations relate to the case which has become known as ‘Barçagate’ and claims that Bartomeu has personally benefitted financially from deals done on behalf of the club.

The ‘Barçagate’ story emerged in relation to reported documents that were said to show the inner workings and financial transactions of the club, which caused a stir in the Spanish media.

Earlier this year, Cadena Ser’s El Larguero show revealed documents from Barcelona which appeared to show the club paying a third party to damage the reputation of individuals, including their own players Lionel Messi and Gerard Pique – who were seen to be opponents to the president.

Blaugrana club legends Xavi Hernandez, Carles Puyol and Pep Guardiola were among those who had supposedly been targeted, along with presidential hopefuls Agusti Benedito and Victor Font.

The third party were said to be the company I3 Ventures, who were allegedly used to promote their own messages both on Twitter and Facebook to discredit others.

It is now claimed that Bartomeu sanctioned a payment to the company that was six times higher than their market value, with the reasoning behind the excessive value now being investigated by the authorities.

The findings of Barcelona’s involvement with the company were revealed in February, after Barcelona issued a statement denying a report from Cadena Ser radio station claiming the club were paying a third party to damage the reputation of others.

The Catalan club always strenuously denied any truth in the reports, saying that they had neither paid nor promoted anyone to denounce or attack others – who have been opponents to the current board in some form at some point – online.
« Last Edit: September 3, 2020, 11:19:38 pm by In the Name of Klopp »
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Offline FlashGordon

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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6892 on: September 3, 2020, 11:17:35 pm »
Thread should be renamed FC Banterlona.
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6893 on: September 5, 2020, 12:58:04 pm »
Yes, he was used much more as a box-to-box player and built around. Schone was alongside him, shielding and doing the dirty work, essentially just shuttling the ball to De Jong every time he won it back. Van De Beek would play ahead of both, dropping deep to be a wall for De Jong to bounce the ball back off, creating different angles of attack and allowing Ziyech and Tadic to find space behind the players Van De Beek dragged out of position.

I think the Busquets stuff is understandable because of similarities in the way they play, I just think that with De Jong having an engine and a greater passing range (not necessarily better than peak-Busquets over shorter distances), he needs to be used as the main man, not a platform for others, as Busquets was. Which necessitates an additional, more defensive player being alongside De Jong.

At Ajax, something you'd see often is Daley Blind and De Ligt splitting, with fullbacks Tagliafico and Mazraoui pushing into the wide midfield areas. Schone would sit, Van De Beek would bomb on and Tadic would drop deep. The issues this caused for the opposition were numerous - Tadic operating as the centre forward would drag a defender deep with him - creating space for the wingers in behind, or force a midfielder to come out of the middle of the park, giving the full backs more space as they attacked the middle.

Van De Beek's late runs also meant all of a sudden, you had one static defender having to react to his sudden forward movement, pedalling backwards, whilst the other centre half often chased the retreating Tadic further up the field. Ziyech was typically the main beneficiary of this as he'd come in from the left into the gap that was created. De Jong would then hit him with a long ball, or use the full backs who'd taken up the empty midfield space to advance the play, whilst the bamboozled opposition tried to get a grip on exactly who was moving where from Ajax's midfield and wide players.

All of this was only possible because of De Jong's passing range and his ability to hit the player he needed to 9 times out of 10. When it worked, it was an absolute joy to watch, both domestically and in Europe. Go and look at De Jong's all touches video v De Graafschap in 2018 for an idea as to how the above used to work. Ziyech has become the playmaker now and is scoring less, this is due to him not being the main man for getting in behind a defence carved open by De Jong.

Great player and the finest talent Ajax have produced in a long time in my eyes.
This is an interesting write up. I can picture the players moving across the field from the description. And the Ajax team of 2019 were fun to watch and proficient in attacking using this strategy.

Based off the description, I think what made them good was their unpredictability, as they had many attacking outlets, with Van De Beek making runs into the box, Ziyech cutting in from wide, Tadic dragging a defender with him towards midfield, and the full backs moving into wide midfield to help the attack, while Schone did the defensive work and De Jong pinged passes.

I see similarities to the way we (Liverpool) play to them, with Salah and Mane playing the role of Ziyech, cutting in from wide, Firmino playing the role of Tadic, dropping deep, Fabinho/Hendo playing the role of Schone, doing the defensive work, with TAA and Robertson helping the attack too like the Ajax full backs.

What I think our midfield lacked compared to them, was a De Jong (a passer with good passing range) and Van De Beek (a midfielder who gets into the box and helps the attack). I think if Thiago comes in, he could play the role of De Jong, pinging passes, while Naby and/or Minamino could play the role of Van De Beek. If that plays out, I think it could give our attack more variability, and add an extra dimension to it. 

Offline Skeeve

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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6894 on: September 5, 2020, 09:34:58 pm »
Take a pay cut you greedy beggar. You're already worth about two Everton's.

Surely twice nothing would still be nothing?  ???

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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6895 on: September 5, 2020, 09:38:52 pm »
Surely twice nothing would still be nothing?  ???
Yet somehow the twice nothing has more trophies. What a mystery...
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Offline thaddeus

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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6896 on: September 7, 2020, 09:58:04 am »
"Coutinho set to stay as Barcelona rule out another loan"

https://www.marca.com/en/football/barcelona/2020/09/06/5f53ffd722601d1b518b45e8.html

Good news for us if true as it increases the prospects of him getting to 100 appearances and triggering the final payment.  It still depends on whether Koeman can survive being sacked long enough for Coutinho to play 24 times.

Offline RedSince86

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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6897 on: September 7, 2020, 10:13:37 am »
Actually a wise decision by the Bartomeu fucktards, getting an iconic much loved figure like Koeman for a season, cleanout of fan favourites who are old and on far to much money and ease out and restrict the playing time of Busquets and Pique who's legs have gone, have a bit of a hit on challenging for the trophies for a season, blood youngsters and then hand it over to the next manager hired by the new President

Barca will be looking at potential targets now and should be using their very expensive analytical department now for the the summer of 2021, perfect that the Euros are next summer as well for them.

2021 can be their 2003 again, when they got a new president in Laporte who hired Rijkaard and got Ronaldinho in the summer window that year.

This is a fantastic documentary on that 2003 Barca presidential race.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/dRpEjS7Cfkc" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/dRpEjS7Cfkc</a> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ICMRS5e9mik&amp;t=3s" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ICMRS5e9mik&amp;t=3s</a>

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/sheFzH0rIgk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/sheFzH0rIgk</a>
« Last Edit: September 7, 2020, 10:20:28 am by RedSince86 »
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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6898 on: September 9, 2020, 10:05:16 pm »
I may be late to the party but have you seen this Messi interview? Wow!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyHi1FSuGkQ
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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6899 on: September 9, 2020, 10:06:33 pm »
That is rather sad that the greatest footballer of all time is being forced to stay and play out his final years in a team he wants to leave.
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Offline rossipersempre

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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6900 on: September 9, 2020, 10:22:22 pm »
Club que un mess.
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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6901 on: September 9, 2020, 10:55:12 pm »
I may be late to the party but have you seen this Messi interview? Wow!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyHi1FSuGkQ
Thanks for posting! I had read bits and pieces from the interview, but Messi sounds differently when you hear it in its entirety. What a piss-poor treatment have Barca given their best player ever!... And this could be such a clear-cut-win court case that I don't know how Barca even said "no"; not going to court out of loyalty to the club. I have to say that my opinion of Messi has changed for the better.   
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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6902 on: September 9, 2020, 10:57:18 pm »
The interview was great.

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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6903 on: September 9, 2020, 10:58:01 pm »
Thanks for posting! I had read bits and pieces from the interview, but Messi sounds differently when you hear it in its entirety. What a piss-poor treatment have Barca given their best player ever!... And this could be such a clear-cut-win court case that I don't know how Barca even said "no"; not going to court out of loyalty to the club. I have to say that my opinion of Messi has changed for the better.


The fuck he didn't go to court because of his love for the club,he knows full well that he would lose & have to pay Barcas fees.
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Offline farawayred

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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6904 on: September 9, 2020, 11:00:44 pm »

The fuck he didn't go to court because of his love for the club,he knows full well that he would lose & have to pay Barcas fees.
Not a chance in hell he'd lose, what are you on about?! He said that he had been speaking to the president multiple times about him wanting to leave throughout the season, well before June 10. All it takes is one, just one, of those to be substantiated. I'm sure he doesn't talk to him alone.
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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6905 on: September 9, 2020, 11:07:09 pm »

The fuck he didn't go to court because of his love for the club,he knows full well that he would lose & have to pay Barcas fees.

The fuck he didn't go to court because of his love for the club,he knows full well that he would lose & have to pay Barcas fees.

I think that’s right. He probably took legal advice which was quite negative. If there is a date in the contract it would be hard to get around that. A clause was hardly going to make reference to a date and then seek to undermine that with reference to a potential global pandemic.there may have been a force majeure clause but probably not given the sums involved and that would likely be open to interpretation too and untested.
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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6906 on: September 9, 2020, 11:08:06 pm »
Not a chance in hell he'd lose, what are you on about?! He said that he had been speaking to the president multiple times about him wanting to leave throughout the season, well before June 10. All it takes is one, just one, of those to be substantiated. I'm sure he doesn't talk to him alone.

A clause like that is likely to require notice in writing
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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6907 on: September 9, 2020, 11:21:39 pm »
A clause like that is likely to require notice in writing
If the contract states "in writing", than you are correct. If it only requires Messi to inform them of his decision, then CAS will disagree. Four months later. I obviously don't know the wording of his contract, but I'm inclined to believe that Messi's case is quite solid, just the timing to get a decision is way off.
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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6908 on: September 9, 2020, 11:59:55 pm »
A clause like that is likely to require notice in writing
If the contract states "in writing", than you are correct. If it only requires Messi to inform them of his decision, then CAS will disagree. Four months later. I obviously don't know the wording of his contract, but I'm inclined to believe that Messi's case is quite solid, just the timing to get a decision is way off.
Seems obvious the clause required notice in writing, given his answer as to why he sent the burofax "to make it official". Add this to the disputed cutoff date, and his legal counsel would have painted a very grim picture for him in terms of outcome (I don't think costs are relevant here), with proceedings dragging on into the start of the season, and all the unpleasant personal toll and upheaval involved.
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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6909 on: September 10, 2020, 12:04:35 am »
If the contract states "in writing", than you are correct. If it only requires Messi to inform them of his decision, then CAS will disagree. Four months later. I obviously don't know the wording of his contract, but I'm inclined to believe that Messi's case is quite solid, just the timing to get a decision is way off.

If it didn't then why did he send a fax,could've just let Man City phone them to let em know he was training in Manchester,like when you swap isp  ;D
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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6910 on: September 10, 2020, 12:13:06 am »
If it didn't then why did he send a fax,could've just let Man City phone them to let em know he was training in Manchester,like when you swap isp  ;D
If you haven't seen the interview, take a look; he talks about that too. It's long, but I found it worth seeing it in full.
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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6911 on: September 10, 2020, 12:15:48 am »
If you haven't seen the interview, take a look; he talks about that too. It's long, but I found it worth seeing it in full.

I did but it's nothing but a pr exercise imo,have zero love for players who try to fuck their clubs over just before the season starts.,even less when they're running to sports wash for a gang of c*nts.


Fuck him,he's part of the reason why they've won feck all.
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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6912 on: September 10, 2020, 12:16:53 am »
Seems obvious the clause required notice in writing, given his answer as to why he sent the burofax "to make it official". Add this to the disputed cutoff date, and his legal counsel would have painted a very grim picture for him in terms of outcome (I don't think costs are relevant here), with proceedings dragging on into the start of the season, and all the unpleasant personal toll and upheaval involved.
Dunno. In his words, he talked to Bartolomeu on multiple occasions, and since nothing came out of that he took the steps to make it official. But why would he talk about that to the president if he didn't believe he was informing him of his decision that's been quite clearly made.

Seems to me a bit of a game being played by the Barca board, not unlike John Henry's one for the 40m + 1 quid for Suarez...
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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6913 on: September 10, 2020, 12:19:28 am »
Yeah I don't buy it mate,he's full of shit.
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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6915 on: September 18, 2020, 07:35:52 pm »
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6916 on: September 24, 2020, 02:30:15 pm »
I have no idea wtf they are trying to do this year..Their CB's were disastrous and they got Todibo back from loan, he spent last year on Schalke where they were almost relegated. Also Barcelona promoted Araujo from B team.

Rakitic and Arthur left, only Pjanic came for midfield option. Suarez left for Atletico, Dembele is injured all the time, Coutinho just doesn't work with Messi.

On top of that Koeman already said to Puig that he won't see much playing time, Puig was one of their rare promising players.

They only have 1 RB after Semedo left, that's Sergi Roberto. Yeah, that's it.

Bartomeu has been dissastrous for them and long may it continue.

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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6917 on: September 24, 2020, 04:45:53 pm »
I think they, as well as a lot of us were just expecting La Masia to solve all their problems when their old core got older. Fati will be a class player but they can't pin all their hopes on him. It's mad that they'll still be starting Pique, Busquets, Alba and a few other over 30s after publically offering them all for transfers
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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6918 on: September 24, 2020, 05:20:30 pm »
This could easily end up an even worse season for them than the last. Disunity, key players want to leave, other key players feel unwanted (because they are unwanted), no area of the pitch actually improved...

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Re: FC Barcelona
« Reply #6919 on: September 24, 2020, 05:39:04 pm »
Suarez scored something like 22 goals in all comps last season despite his legs being gone, who's going to fill that void for them?