Author Topic: Elon Musk  (Read 76938 times)

Offline Lusty

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #120 on: October 31, 2022, 10:08:10 am »
And in the case of Twitter, relatively easy to fix, or at least make infinitely better. One account per person, verified through ID - 99.999% of shit on there is posted by faceless profiles. But they won't do it because then they'll be unable to say we have XXX million users when in reality it's probably 10 times less than that.
If you remove anonymity, you remove it from the victims as well as the perpetrators of abuse.  I don't think that's a good trade off.  You lose a lot of really great content from anonymous accounts as well, e.g. whistleblowers, people living under represive regimes etc.  There are quite a lot of good accounts of women working in technology for example who post anonymously just because they can't be arsed with the harrasment that comes with being a woman having an opinion in that field.

And you won't really stop the abuse in the first place, because as Facebook shows, people are quite happy to continue posting hate speech under their own names anyway.

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #121 on: October 31, 2022, 10:40:50 am »
And in the case of Twitter, relatively easy to fix, or at least make infinitely better. One account per person, verified through ID - 99.999% of shit on there is posted by faceless profiles. But they won't do it because then they'll be unable to say we have XXX million users when in reality it's probably 10 times less than that.

Anonymity and the ability to have multiple accounts is what makes twitter strong. Otherwise it's just a short version of facebook.

I like the anonynity, it removes a lot of prejustice, and allows you to talk about something directly, without having to deal with that person's family life at the same time.
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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #122 on: October 31, 2022, 11:15:25 am »
Yeah Facebook is largely non-anonymous and is in my opinion worse and more dangerous society. Getting rid of anonymity isn't the answer.

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #123 on: October 31, 2022, 11:18:19 am »
And in the case of Twitter, relatively easy to fix, or at least make infinitely better. One account per person, verified through ID - 99.999% of shit on there is posted by faceless profiles. But they won't do it because then they'll be unable to say we have XXX million users when in reality it's probably 10 times less than that.
How many people, do you think, will upload their their IDs to an Musk-owned Twitter? Besides, it would mark a fundamental shift in Twitter philosophy - it is not Facebook. It would fundamentally break the site and cause massive abandonment - I don't believe even Elon Musk is that bereft of understanding the product he now owns.
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Offline leroy

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #124 on: October 31, 2022, 11:25:23 am »
No, Tesla would never have made it without him and his input…. He transformed them.

And space x even more so. 

These two companies will literally change the world and they wouldn’t have just happened anyway…starlink will bring internet to areas where it was previously unthinkable

Remarkable really.. He’s an incredible engineer and software engineer he really is…

And I think he’s being genuine when he says he did them for the betterment of mankind…


Portent to remember that Musk is someone with Asperger’s, I think many of his ‘quirks’ could be put down to that.

Some very worrying  other stuff form him though…

But I think he’s a perfect case of someone who isn’t black or white but is a really complex mix of conflicting values and impacts


His "quirks" aren't down to Aspergers... they're down to him being a fuckwit.  I think you're doing a massive disservice there to those with Aspergers to say his type of bastardry is attributed to it.

I certainly don't think any altruism on his part is genuine.  He's an egotist with a savior complex and an unending appetite for wealth.  The way he treats humans as commodities shows that.

He clearly has some kind of genius because he latches onto the right ideas and is clearly a magnet for media hungry for easy content.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2022, 11:57:56 am by leroy »

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #125 on: October 31, 2022, 11:35:38 am »

His "quirks" aren't down to Aspergers... they're down to him being a fuckwit.  I think you're doing a massive disservice there to those with Aspergers to say his type of bastardry is attributed to it.

I certainly don't think any altruism on his part is genuine.  He's a egotist with a savior complex and an unending appetite for wealth.  The way he treats humans as commodities shows that.

He clearly has some kind of genius because he latches onto the right ideas and is clearly a magnet for media hungry for easy content.

I agree. Being on the spectrum might explain certain behaviours but it certainly doesn't excuse them either. I've got a touch of Aspergers but I don't call people paedophiles just because they disagree with me.

The guy is a thin skinned validation seeker
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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #126 on: October 31, 2022, 12:14:11 pm »
I agree. Being on the spectrum might explain certain behaviours but it certainly doesn't excuse them either. I've got a touch of Aspergers but I don't call people paedophiles just because they disagree with me.

The guy is a thin skinned validation seeker

And a mummy’s boy to boot.

His mother bears an uncanny resemblance to Andy Murray’s mother, for what that’s worth. ;D

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #127 on: October 31, 2022, 01:02:14 pm »
Yeah Facebook is largely non-anonymous and is in my opinion worse and more dangerous society. Getting rid of anonymity isn't the answer.
But you could be publicly anonymous yet have to show proof of ID to show you weren’t a bot and so we can clamp down on those with multiple malicious accounts
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Offline RainbowFlick

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #128 on: October 31, 2022, 01:08:20 pm »
Kyle Rittenhouse has been unbanned on twitter, if you're wondering where this is going...
YNWA.

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #129 on: October 31, 2022, 01:08:56 pm »
c*nt trump will be back soon as well.

Offline RainbowFlick

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #130 on: October 31, 2022, 01:10:35 pm »
And in the case of Twitter, relatively easy to fix, or at least make infinitely better. One account per person, verified through ID - 99.999% of shit on there is posted by faceless profiles. But they won't do it because then they'll be unable to say we have XXX million users when in reality it's probably 10 times less than that.

should not be loosely giving away your personal information to a social media company. but in any case, the people most impacted by this are those that genuinely need anonymity - whether that's a whistleblower, a marginalised person or simply people that want to avoid mixing their personal and professional lives up together.

you don't punish normal people. you tighten your regulation and moderation.

we have seen on facebook the types of things people write up with their full name, face and family history publicly on show. we've also seen how Zuck does not care one bit.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2022, 01:12:10 pm by RainbowFlick »
YNWA.

Offline So… Howard Philips

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #131 on: October 31, 2022, 01:11:34 pm »
Kyle Rittenhouse has been unbanned on twitter, if you're wondering where this is going...

Quelle surprise.

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #132 on: October 31, 2022, 01:13:03 pm »
But you could be publicly anonymous yet have to show proof of ID to show you weren’t a bot and so we can clamp down on those with multiple malicious accounts
'Bots' are part of how Twitter operates. Bots are supposed to be a feature, not a bug. So, doing away with bots will have negative consequences in how the platform operates too.

There are fundamental problems with how the platform operates - I don't know if there is a workable solution to some of them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_bot
« Last Edit: October 31, 2022, 01:28:00 pm by Jiminy Cricket »
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Offline Machae

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #133 on: October 31, 2022, 01:15:09 pm »
c*nt trump will be back soon as well.

Hmm, just b4 the mid terms too. Couldn't have timed it so better

Offline thaddeus

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #134 on: October 31, 2022, 01:25:44 pm »
'Bots' are part of how Twitter operates. Bots are supposed to be a feature, not a bug. So, doing away with bots will have negative consequences in how the platform operates too.

There are fundamental problems with how the platform operates - I don't know if there is a workable solution to some of Twitter's them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_bot
I guess they'd be targeting the improper usage rather than the more administrative tasks that bots are useful for.

I may be a victim of the echo chamber but I've always got the impression the improper bots were more a function of the right than the left (in very simple terms).  Allowing more open debate and, arguably, hate speech to return to Twitter but disrupting the bot farms that amplify and endorse much of that content may end up be being largely neutral.

Musk is going to look a bit of a twat if he makes this big issue of bots but then, with his infinite genius, is unable to get on top of the problem as the owner of Twitter.  I think he may find though that any algorithms they come up with will falsely accuse lots of people of being bots because how people interact with Twitter is so varied.

Offline KillieRed

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #135 on: October 31, 2022, 01:41:45 pm »
£44b just to destroy something. That’ll put the KLF in their place (one for the kids there). I look forward to it. Evil always destroys itself.
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Offline Lusty

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #136 on: October 31, 2022, 01:58:04 pm »
But you could be publicly anonymous yet have to show proof of ID to show you weren’t a bot and so we can clamp down on those with multiple malicious accounts
Then what happens when that data linking IDs to accounts gets breached?  Or what happens when a hostile government subpoenas it?

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #137 on: October 31, 2022, 02:04:20 pm »
Then what happens when that data linking IDs to accounts gets breached?  Or what happens when a hostile government subpoenas it?
It might operate like Facebook, where the ID data is supposedly retained only temporarily. But it remains a problematic proposition.
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Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #138 on: October 31, 2022, 02:22:17 pm »
I agree. Being on the spectrum might explain certain behaviours but it certainly doesn't excuse them either. I've got a touch of Aspergers but I don't call people paedophiles just because they disagree with me.

The guy is a thin skinned validation seeker

Not to derail the thread but, you either have Aspergers, or you don't (you cannot have a touch of it).  It isn't something you catch and it needs to be diagnosed.

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #139 on: October 31, 2022, 03:03:33 pm »
Not to derail the thread but, you either have Aspergers, or you don't (you cannot have a touch of it).  It isn't something you catch and it needs to be diagnosed.

I have been assessed and been told I am on the spectrum with traits of Aspergers, but not full Aspergers. I'm only telling you what I've been told.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #140 on: October 31, 2022, 03:10:27 pm »
Not to derail the thread but, you either have Aspergers, or you don't (you cannot have a touch of it).  It isn't something you catch and it needs to be diagnosed.
Come on, Red. Just like with just about any other condition, there are degrees of severity.
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Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #141 on: October 31, 2022, 03:16:44 pm »
I have been assessed and been told I am on the spectrum with traits of Aspergers, but not full Aspergers. I'm only telling you what I've been told.

Sorry.  I take it back.  I put my foot in it somewhat there.  You didn't have to divulge your medical history.

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #142 on: October 31, 2022, 03:17:37 pm »
Come on, Red. Just like with just about any other condition, there are degrees of severity.

Yes, that is true.

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #143 on: October 31, 2022, 04:51:20 pm »
Sorry.  I take it back.  I put my foot in it somewhat there.  You didn't have to divulge your medical history.

No worries.

At the end of the day people shouldn't be defined by their physical and mental ailments. A person can be a dick whether they're in a wheelchair or not, whether they have autism or not.
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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #144 on: October 31, 2022, 05:01:36 pm »
Have you been keeping track of world affairs, since 2016?  Social media is an unregulated, shitshow!  It's been discribed by many as 'a wild west'

Imagine being able to create absolute shite, and have it beamed directly into someones mind, constantly.  Goebbels would be licking his lips at the thought!

It's extremely dangerous, and not fit for purpose, in it's current form.

It's even more dangerous if there are people who don't challenge things though. Is it better to actually see it and inform rather than let it go somewhere undisturbed where no one can challenge it? I am not sure it is, that way it can be even more dangerous. Yes, it certainly needs more control but just shutting it down is not a good thing, as it will start off somewhere else and do even more damage.
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Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #145 on: October 31, 2022, 05:11:28 pm »
No worries.

At the end of the day people shouldn't be defined by their physical and mental ailments. A person can be a dick whether they're in a wheelchair or not, whether they have autism or not.

Yes, I agree. 

Congratulations on your diagnosis btw.  Neurodiversity is something that should be celebrated!
« Last Edit: November 1, 2022, 08:09:10 am by Red-Soldier »

Offline thaddeus

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #146 on: November 1, 2022, 09:03:50 pm »
Elon Musk says $8 monthly fee for Twitter blue tick

Elon Musk has said Twitter will charge $8 (£7) monthly to Twitter users who want a blue tick by their name indicating a verified account.

As part of changes after a $44bn (£38bn) takeover of the social media site, Mr Musk said it was "essential to defeat spam/scam".
I'm not sure it will do much to "defeat spam/scam" but it would raise around $3.5m/month.  I'm not sure if that's a lot or not a lot in the world of social media income.

It would seem likely to diminish the value of a "blue tick" as it would become just another paid for commodity.

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #147 on: November 1, 2022, 09:10:11 pm »
I'm not sure it will do much to "defeat spam/scam" but it would raise around $3.5m/month.  I'm not sure if that's a lot or not a lot in the world of social media income.

It would seem likely to diminish the value of a "blue tick" as it would become just another paid for commodity.
They would still need to be 'verified', would they not?
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Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #148 on: November 1, 2022, 09:20:19 pm »
Musk makes two very flawed arguments for charging for verified status.

He claims the current system is "lords and peasants" and paying a fee for verified status would change that? Er, no. It pretty much means that anyone with $96 a year can essentially buy verified status. That's not democratizing status. That's commodifying it and allowing people to buy a higher tier of status.

Secondly, such a process won't help defeat bots or spam. If anything it gives license to anyone with the financial resources to create loads of verified voices, which people will naturally associate with either expertise, knowledge or authenticity in certain areas. Moderation, the type Musk is pretty much binning, is what will help defeat bots.

Frankly, it's amazing how he's managing to destroy his new toy in real time and I think there will be a long-term detrimental knock-on effect for his other companies (particularly Tesla).

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #149 on: November 1, 2022, 09:27:03 pm »
Regular people will just stop using it. They'll stick to the sources they already have and gradually become passive recipients rather than contributors.

The likes of journalists and celebs will still maintain a presence because it's necessary for them, but small users will ultimate walk away as it becomes an arena for those who can shout the loudest.

Farron Cousins recently posted a video where he suggest that, although Musk has a very Republican outlook on rich people paying taxes, and receiving public subsidies whilst wanting to deny them to others, that he himself is more contrarian in his politics and just enjoys opposing for the sake of opposing. He thinks it's cool and trendy.

I don't know if that's an accurate assessment, but I am reminded of those autistic people who get into hacking and the like. People who are generally loners, can focus in on something very specific, and like to test themselves and push boundaries. In any case, twitter was never worth what he paid for it, and it will be worth even less by this time next year.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #150 on: November 1, 2022, 09:49:57 pm »
There appears to be some misunderstanding about the introduction of a fee for the blue check mark. It appears that the account holder will still need to be verified.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/2022/10/31/elon-musk-revamping-twitter-verification-blue-checkmark/10652240002/

The introduction of these fees do not affect normal users. And, frankly, there have been some big names who have been arguing for this change - and for much higher fees I might add - for quite some time now. Given the valuation placed upon Twitter, financially, it performed very poorly. They have been unable to make advertising work successfully for them. I made mention of this a few days ago:
Where Twitter ends up between the reality of the situation and Musk's ego is anyone's guess. But it could be delicious to watch. There may be a greater push for Twitter to turn to a subscription model for the Blue Check brigade - more specifically, politicians, media companies and larger 'influencers'. Certainly, the likes of Scott Galloway (professor of marketing at the New York University Stern School of Business), and Roger McNamee, certainly think so. (Twitter would remain free to use for ordinary users).
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #151 on: November 1, 2022, 09:55:45 pm »
Just to add, I too think that Musk's take on this is confused. I do not see how charging a fee will have any affect upon bots. The problems with bots are already not associated with blue check accounts. Further, bots on Twitter are supposed to be feature, not a bug.
'Bots' are part of how Twitter operates. Bots are supposed to be a feature, not a bug. So, doing away with bots will have negative consequences in how the platform operates too.

There are fundamental problems with how the platform operates - I don't know if there is a workable solution to some of them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_bot
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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #152 on: November 1, 2022, 11:20:13 pm »
Can’t wait to start using bluesky.
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Offline RainbowFlick

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #153 on: November 2, 2022, 10:54:32 am »
Just to add, I too think that Musk's take on this is confused. I do not see how charging a fee will have any affect upon bots. The problems with bots are already not associated with blue check accounts. Further, bots on Twitter are supposed to be feature, not a bug.

i think when you take a step back and assess his comments on like 99% of things, they're all a bit... confused...
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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #154 on: November 2, 2022, 12:38:50 pm »
I'm not sure it will do much to "defeat spam/scam" but it would raise around $3.5m/month.  I'm not sure if that's a lot or not a lot in the world of social media income.

It would seem likely to diminish the value of a "blue tick" as it would become just another paid for commodity.

Assuming all 300k blue ticks signed up at $8 a month it would take over 1500 years to break even on the purchase price of 44b by my pack of fag packet maths
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Offline Max_powers

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #155 on: November 2, 2022, 12:54:38 pm »
If you are say a troll farm in Russia, now you can just purchase a stable of blue check accounts and also have 1000s of disposable regular accounts to signal boost the blue check accounts. Hardly gonna solve anything.

Although its obvious that Musk doesn't really care about actually solving this issue at all.

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #156 on: November 2, 2022, 01:07:20 pm »
Issue with Twitter was well understood before Musk dipped his little fingers in there. It's a balancing act between a free for all and investing manpower to curate and police the platform. There are tweaks he can make in what the machine feeds the users, but for the most part it comes down to balancing the amount of cleaning they are willing to do. I haven't heard anything from him yet that shows he has even a remotely fresh angle to tackling this problem.

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #157 on: November 2, 2022, 01:11:15 pm »
If you are say a troll farm in Russia, now you can just purchase a stable of blue check accounts and also have 1000s of disposable regular accounts to signal boost the blue check accounts. Hardly gonna solve anything.

Although its obvious that Musk doesn't really care about actually solving this issue at all.

I expect he prob does have plans to filter the bots and the bot farms, however it's likely not a simple fix he can implement within a week or two.

Adding a level where real people can verify they are who they say they are (via ID, selfie, etc) isn't a bad idea at all, it does need other action to make sure it isn't abused though.

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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #158 on: November 2, 2022, 01:35:09 pm »
Issue with Twitter was well understood before Musk dipped his little fingers in there. It's a balancing act between a free for all and investing manpower to curate and police the platform. There are tweaks he can make in what the machine feeds the users, but for the most part it comes down to balancing the amount of cleaning they are willing to do. I haven't heard anything from him yet that shows he has even a remotely fresh angle to tackling this problem.

Pod Save the World were saying the Saudis took a sizeable share in Twitter & that blue tick idea is another way of finding anonymous critics of their regime. No doubt Musk would find that kind of information handy too.
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Re: Elon Musk
« Reply #159 on: November 2, 2022, 01:50:26 pm »
Pod Save the World were saying the Saudis took a sizeable share in Twitter & that blue tick idea is another way of finding anonymous critics of their regime. No doubt Musk would find that kind of information handy too.

Yes, they do have a large share in the platform.  Very reassuring.