Author Topic: Sarah Everard* Update Jan 2023 - Met Police rapist.  (Read 72739 times)

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Sarah Everard* Update Jan 2023 - Met Police rapist.
« on: March 11, 2021, 11:21:43 am »
When you're a little girl, the boys at primary school will try to look up your skirt. You don't really know why they do it, you're only 6, but you know it feels a bit weird. Maybe you tell your mum when you get home, maybe you don't. If you do tell her, maybe she'll say "boys will be boys", or maybe she'll sigh in resignation and tell you to ignore them. She's been there before. We all have.

When you're 11, 12, 13, the boys at secondary school ping your bra strap, sometimes undoing it completely. You'll be sat there trying to pay attention to the teacher, and then you'll feel a sharp snap followed by sniggering. Boys will be boys, and if you say anything, they'll be really horrible to you. It's not worth it. You're 15 now, it's summer, you take off your jumper and your Music teacher compliments you on the bra he can see through your school shirt. You have to stay behind with him to do your GCSE coursework. He compliments you on your haircut and says you look like a rockstar. You know that's not okay but he's a teacher, so how can you say anything? Your insides are squirming and you look at the clock on the wall, willing the seconds to speed up so you can get out of there.

When you walk home from school, sometimes cars beep at you. Sometimes men shout stuff out the window at you. When you're at uni, most days you get your arse grabbed on the bus. Once, you're sat in a beer garden reading a book and a man sits next to you and starts masturbating through his trousers, murmuring "let me come on you, please let me come on you". You quietly stand up, trying not to shake - with fear, with disgust - and you go inside and tell the lad on the bar. He kicks the man out and bars him, offers to call the police. You thank him but you tell him not to bother. He asks you if you're okay, you lie and say you are. You're grateful for his kindness.

The cold, dark night air feels like it's about to grow a pair of hands and grab you. You love listening to music when you walk, but headphones aren't a great idea for a woman. You're hyper-aware of your surroundings, every sound from the trees, every crunch of a twig. You texted your mate, your partner, your mum to tell them you're on the way. It's an unsaid thing, an implication that everyone understands. "I'm on my way" means "I'm on my way, if I'm not back when I should be, start to worry". You wish you could just live your life and do what you want to do without setting yourself curfews for your own safety, but it's been this way for as long as you can remember now.

There's a man walking behind you - quite far behind you - but you feel your heart rate start to pick up. Your hands are stuffed in your pockets, and you tighten your grip around the house keys which are poking out between your knuckles. Frankly, you don't know why you do it - how exactly would it help, it'd probably just make your attacker more angry - but you do it all the same, because it's kind of comforting. Your mind is racing with possible scenarios, escape routes, what might be about to happen to you. You hope you just get mugged or raped, and it doesn't go any further than that. Please, God, don't let it go any further than that... but if it does, please let it be quick.

The man - perhaps sensing your discomfort - crosses over to the other side of the road and calls someone, possibly his wife. You release the breath you didn't even realise you'd been holding, and then you start to feel bad. Bad, because you thought those awful things about someone you don't know - he could be a lovely fella, for all you know. Bad, because you can't walk the streets without picturing the awful things you think might be about to happen to you. Bad, because you're scared all the time. Bad, because for all the nice men out there, there's men like Sarah Everard's attacker. Like Libby Squires' attacker.

Then you get angry. And that's all life is, for a woman. Feeling scared, feeling bad, feeling angry. Scared, bad, angry in the knowledge that it could be you next time. Scared, bad, angry because women will continue to be killed by men until the fiery death of the universe, and there's not a thing to be done about it.

My thoughts are with Sarah Everard's family and friends.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2023, 09:58:29 pm by Alan_X »

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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2021, 11:46:52 am »
Very powerful piece Sian. I’m sorry you’ve had to go through all of that. And it sounds like almost every woman could tell similar stories.

The case itself is absolutely grim. I’m sure what happened will come out in the fullness of time, the arrest has come about pretty quickly in the scheme of things. RIP

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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2021, 11:55:29 am »
 Very sad indeed

As Nick says powerful & raw emotion Sian

I’ve been the bloke late at night walking home from the pub seen a female & cross the road to avoid walking behind . Thinking your ok I’m not a scumbag but saying something is worse appears creepy

Your recollections of School is what struck me as what appears amusing isn’t & no thoughts about the feelings of young girls . With an 8 year old daughter myself something I wouldn’t want to happen & hope she’s got a strong personality & wouldn’t tolerate it

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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2021, 12:08:34 pm »
Ah yeah it's crazy. She is from my home city and a few years older than me, but I have friends who know her family so it hits home.

No one should have to feel unsafe walking alone and I think this case is bringing about some really good discussion. I hear accounts from different women who feel unsafe and it's unsettling. I take it for granted as a male so it's really opening for me. I don't even think it's just related to walking home at night, I know plenty of women who will always make a phone call when they are in a taxi too if they are alone.

As for this particular case, I'm sure it will all come out but its really unsettling.

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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2021, 12:19:51 pm »
Well said.  Appears to be happening or being reported more, but maybe that’s just with Covid people (me) consume more news.

Also reports of rises in domestic abuse during lockdown.

RIP Sarah. 

Reportedly the policeman arrested is a diplomatic protection officer based at the Palace of Westminster. Such status means he’s entitled to carry a firearm.  He’s also being questioned on suspicion of indecent exposure against a second woman.

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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2021, 12:33:13 pm »
This is a horrible story and quite a nightmarish one.

RIP.

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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2021, 12:59:33 pm »
I’ve been the bloke late at night walking home from the pub seen a female & cross the road to avoid walking behind .

I still have a vivid 20-year-old ish memory of walking back to my village from the train station on a dark winter evening - there are only 2 routes, and I wasn't about to take the unlit graveyard shortcut, so I ended up 25-30 yards behind a woman who was the only other passenger to get off at the stop. It was a country lane with pavement on just one side so couldn't cross over. I may not have even had a mobile phone to talk into back then, as I only got one when I passed my driving test. I was aware she must have been scared - I could see in the streetlights she kept looking back - but all I could do was keep pace... she was walking slower than I would naturally, but trying to get past her was obviously a bad idea.

When we got into the village proper she turned up a footpath and I could hear her break into a run. Never forgotten that evening. I read something this morning about men pretending to talk into a phone to make it clear you're not being 'stealthy' etc which seems like something to bear in mind.
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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2021, 01:06:25 pm »
I still have a vivid 20-year-old ish memory of walking back to my village from the train station on a dark winter evening - there are only 2 routes, and I wasn't about to take the unlit graveyard shortcut, so I ended up 25-30 yards behind a woman who was the only other passenger to get off at the stop. It was a country lane with pavement on just one side so couldn't cross over. I may not have even had a mobile phone to talk into back then, as I only got one when I passed my driving test. I was aware she must have been scared - I could see in the streetlights she kept looking back - but all I could do was keep pace... she was walking slower than I would naturally, but trying to get past her was obviously a bad idea.

When we got into the village proper she turned up a footpath and I could hear her break into a run. Never forgotten that evening. I read something this morning about men pretending to talk into a phone to make it clear you're not being 'stealthy' etc which seems like something to bear in mind.

I don't think I have ever made a phone call but I am always wary of being behind someone and will sometimes cough or something, just to make it clear I'm not trying to sneak.

Sian, thanks for writing that. On the bra strap thing, I don't think I ever did it (was a pretty shy kid who would never dare) but I have to be honest I remember watching it being done and joining in with the laughter... not something I am proud of now and reading this has made me realise how it must have felt.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2021, 01:08:27 pm by Just Elmo? »

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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2021, 02:14:16 pm »
What a thoroughly depressing but enlightening post. It is something that is a struggle for men to understand, but it is something that men must begin to understand more and be more proactive in denouncing. The only time I've been close to anything like that sort of feeling in terms of fear is when a fella that I knew from my area ended up in the same wing in prison as me and threatened to take my canteen and smokes and I was worried for my safety as he had battered me on the out previously and I could hardly just go home. Or being the wrong area at the wrong time and being followed by a gang of lads and jumped, or beaten up and robbed in a foreign country. But it has to be said these sort of occasions are but a handful of occasions in my life, are never related to my sex and are incredibly rare. But I can at least relate to the fear as a human being.

It is horrifying and sad that woman experience the issues that Sian describes with such awful regularity in their every day lives - constantly. Possibly worried about it happening whenever they leave their front door- with domestic violence prevalent also, sometimes they don't even need to leave the house. Things like walking to the petrol station at the dead of night in the morning for more beer for me I simply take for granted, I can listen to my music loud and feel very safe in that it is very very unlikely I will encounter any sort of issue because I'm a bloke.

The more that woman speak on it the more I have listened, the more that we must all listen. I wouldn't say that having a daughter suddenly opened my eyes to it more, as I think I already had a good grasp of how many sick wankers there are in amongst the population of men, but it certainly helps make it more acute when you think of your little superstar being violated in ways that Sian has mentioned.

I too often cross the road if I'm walking behind a woman on their own. Apart from calling out behaviour when I see it around me personally, there is a guilt and an annoyance that I cannot do more.

I just can't get my head around these sort of c*nts. Other than calling out any behaviour I see in my own life it's difficult in that I feel powerless to help prevent these things from happening. Even with all the denouncement in the world, if a horrible c*nt decides to do something like this, bar being caught in the act, how can it be prevented?

The Sarah Everard case is heartbreaking.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2021, 02:16:36 pm by Hij »
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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2021, 02:14:49 pm »
Very powerful piece. Thanks for sharing. Thoughts are with Sarah's friends and her family.

I have been living in the Middle East and Latin America for the last 10 years, and this is a constant issue. Not a week goes by where my girlfriend or female friends do not get harassed in some way.

I still have a vivid 20-year-old ish memory of walking back to my village from the train station on a dark winter evening - there are only 2 routes, and I wasn't about to take the unlit graveyard shortcut, so I ended up 25-30 yards behind a woman who was the only other passenger to get off at the stop. It was a country lane with pavement on just one side so couldn't cross over. I may not have even had a mobile phone to talk into back then, as I only got one when I passed my driving test. I was aware she must have been scared - I could see in the streetlights she kept looking back - but all I could do was keep pace... she was walking slower than I would naturally, but trying to get past her was obviously a bad idea.


This happens to me a lot and I honestly don't know how best to act here. One idea is just to stop and wait until the woman is out of sight to give her the space but if one is in a rush, it's not always an option. Any ideas, ladies?
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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2021, 02:18:42 pm »
Quote
This happens to me a lot and I honestly don't know how best to act here. One idea is just to stop and wait until the woman is out of sight to give her the space but if one is in a rush, it's not always an option. Any ideas, ladies?

Based on some Twitter threads I was reading yesterday, being clear with them that you are there and want to get past appears to be one of the recommended shouts. "Excuse me, I'm just on my way somewhere can I get past please?" etc. What always worries me though is that any man with nefarious intentions will manipulate a situation to get close so what can you do really? If I can go on the other side of the road and get past them and then get distance between us I try and do that, as I don't usually like hanging about when walking.
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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2021, 02:29:36 pm »
When you're a little girl, the boys at primary school will try to look up your skirt. You don't really know why they do it, you're only 6, but you know it feels a bit weird. Maybe you tell your mum when you get home, maybe you don't. If you do tell her, maybe she'll say "boys will be boys", or maybe she'll sigh in resignation and tell you to ignore them. She's been there before. We all have.

When you're 11, 12, 13, the boys at secondary school ping your bra strap, sometimes undoing it completely. You'll be sat there trying to pay attention to the teacher, and then you'll feel a sharp snap followed by sniggering. Boys will be boys, and if you say anything, they'll be really horrible to you. It's not worth it. You're 15 now, it's summer, you take off your jumper and your Music teacher compliments you on the bra he can see through your school shirt. You have to stay behind with him to do your GCSE coursework. He compliments you on your haircut and says you look like a rockstar. You know that's not okay but he's a teacher, so how can you say anything? Your insides are squirming and you look at the clock on the wall, willing the seconds to speed up so you can get out of there.

When you walk home from school, sometimes cars beep at you. Sometimes men shout stuff out the window at you. When you're at uni, most days you get your arse grabbed on the bus. Once, you're sat in a beer garden reading a book and a man sits next to you and starts masturbating through his trousers, murmuring "let me come on you, please let me come on you". You quietly stand up, trying not to shake - with fear, with disgust - and you go inside and tell the lad on the bar. He kicks the man out and bars him, offers to call the police. You thank him but you tell him not to bother. He asks you if you're okay, you lie and say you are. You're grateful for his kindness.

The cold, dark night air feels like it's about to grow a pair of hands and grab you. You love listening to music when you walk, but headphones aren't a great idea for a woman. You're hyper-aware of your surroundings, every sound from the trees, every crunch of a twig. You texted your mate, your partner, your mum to tell them you're on the way. It's an unsaid thing, an implication that everyone understands. "I'm on my way" means "I'm on my way, if I'm not back when I should be, start to worry". You wish you could just live your life and do what you want to do without setting yourself curfews for your own safety, but it's been this way for as long as you can remember now.

There's a man walking behind you - quite far behind you - but you feel your heart rate start to pick up. Your hands are stuffed in your pockets, and you tighten your grip around the house keys which are poking out between your knuckles. Frankly, you don't know why you do it - how exactly would it help, it'd probably just make your attacker more angry - but you do it all the same, because it's kind of comforting. Your mind is racing with possible scenarios, escape routes, what might be about to happen to you. You hope you just get mugged or raped, and it doesn't go any further than that. Please, God, don't let it go any further than that... but if it does, please let it be quick.

The man - perhaps sensing your discomfort - crosses over to the other side of the road and calls someone, possibly his wife. You release the breath you didn't even realise you'd been holding, and then you start to feel bad. Bad, because you thought those awful things about someone you don't know - he could be a lovely fella, for all you know. Bad, because you can't walk the streets without picturing the awful things you think might be about to happen to you. Bad, because you're scared all the time. Bad, because for all the nice men out there, there's men like Sarah Everard's attacker. Like Libby Squires' attacker.

Then you get angry. And that's all life is, for a woman. Feeling scared, feeling bad, feeling angry. Scared, bad, angry in the knowledge that it could be you next time. Scared, bad, angry because women will continue to be killed by men until the fiery death of the universe, and there's not a thing to be done about it.

My thoughts are with Sarah Everard's family and friends.

This is incredibly piercing and truthful writing thank you so much for sharing it Sian, devastating as it is.

I'll be rereading when I'm not sneaking a read at work. Have just caught a few posters engaging in important discussions, and wanted to add something to the agenda for fellow men on here (and beyond). It's courtesy of two women on twitter, but I can't find their posts now to source.

"Every woman has a story yet men don't seem to know any predators. We already take every imaginable precaution, you need to talk to your mates."

"Nothing changes until men talk about this stuff with other men, when no women are around as an audience"

I think they're correct, and I think that [before mentioning structural issues with systems in this and many countries] all boys and men need to be better at broaching and discussing (and flagging and warning) when they encounter someone who says something that hints at something more serious than 'just having a laugh'

Offline Thepooloflife

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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2021, 02:55:16 pm »
Very powerful and vivid post Sian and conveys a picture many women must feel. I have a grown up daughter and must admit, like most fathers probably, that when she was growing up I was often fearful when she was out alone or visiting friends for the evening and anxious that I'd soon hear the key in the door rather than later. Whatever thoughts she had on her journeys home she kept to herself mostly - so the picture you describe is both stark and enlightening, which men need to talk about too.

It's such sad and distressful incident about Sarah and my heart goes out to her family. Actually, a few years ago my daughter lived less than a mile where this awful event happened - which is a terrible thought now.

Thanks for posting.

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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2021, 03:03:23 pm »
A very powerful piece. As a guy, growing up,   you can try to visualise / reason out / guess what is inappropriate,  how best to act...  but to see all this laid out.   :-\




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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2021, 03:11:05 pm »
A very important post.

Condolences to Sarah's Family and Friends.
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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2021, 03:27:56 pm »
A very moving piece Sian. As the father of a 15 year old daughter that has really hit home, so thank you.

A heartbreaking story. My heart goes out to her, her family and friends. Terrible.
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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2021, 03:49:49 pm »
Thanks for your post Sian, and for being so open.  It had crossed my mind that this might be a good place for a post on the wider context of this terrible situation, but I'm glad (if that makes sense) that such a worthy post has started the discussion.

This week's developments have been heart-breaking and many will have their thoughts with Sarah Everard and her family & friends.  The outpouring of commentary on the wider context has painted a very clear & harrowing picture of the experience of women & girls, and we can only hope that a legacy of this awful situation - and the loss of Sarah, Libby Squire, and many others both known & unknown - is much greater awareness & consideration for those experiences...that we hold our family, friends, acquaintances, & strangers in our thoughts all of the time, and that we take action & make improvements based upon those thoughts.

I'm inclined to think that - even for those of us who think 'well I'm fine; I'm no threat' - taking some time to reflect & play devil's advocate with ourselves in order to consider what improvements we could make would be valuable.

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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2021, 04:08:07 pm »
Snip

Thanks for sharing Sian.

As a man enjoying complete male privilege we never often come to think about this full experience or even know about these things, it's only honestly when I started to have a few long term relationships in my late teens/early twenties that once a few of those girls opened up to me I heard about all kinds of horrid stories similar to your own.

Since then through friends and through other relationships I've heard all kinds from full group assaults, to insults, to guys following them home and masturbating in front of them, others having men masturbate next to them on trains or rub up against them. The sort of crazy shit usually reserved for Migs on Silence of the lambs and as a 'normal' male you couldn't ever fathom anyone ever wanting to do that. You hear about it and it's shocking but as a male it is simply not a world we live in so it's good to try and appreciate and understand all of this more.

Even with all of these stories mentioned, the brief but vivid picture you have painted tells so much more about the whole timeline of life and the fear that is gradually built up and engrained as that goes on. Will stick with me for a while.

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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2021, 04:28:02 pm »
I still have a vivid 20-year-old ish memory of walking back to my village from the train station on a dark winter evening - there are only 2 routes, and I wasn't about to take the unlit graveyard shortcut, so I ended up 25-30 yards behind a woman who was the only other passenger to get off at the stop. It was a country lane with pavement on just one side so couldn't cross over. I may not have even had a mobile phone to talk into back then, as I only got one when I passed my driving test. I was aware she must have been scared - I could see in the streetlights she kept looking back - but all I could do was keep pace... she was walking slower than I would naturally, but trying to get past her was obviously a bad idea.

When we got into the village proper she turned up a footpath and I could hear her break into a run. Never forgotten that evening. I read something this morning about men pretending to talk into a phone to make it clear you're not being 'stealthy' etc which seems like something to bear in mind.

As a woman I actually feel bad for all the 'good guys' who must feel like you describe above. Remember once I was leaving a club to walk home and this drunk guy I'd briefly talked to inside decided he was coming home with me. Couldn't shake him off and I was getting nearer home when I managed to get across a road quicker than him and spotted a couple of lads up ahead. Took a split second decision whether to trust these two lads to help me out, but remember thinking that could be a risky thing to do. Anyway, I quickly explained the situation to them and they said I could walk with them (and shared their chips with me!) until I was near enough to break away and leg it home. Think the other guy gave up when he saw I was with other people but I wasn't taking any chances of him seeing where I lived.

Usually talk on my phone if I'm on my own now, although I've had friends say that can leave you open to a mugging and certainly friends in London have been warned not to do that.
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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2021, 04:43:28 pm »
As a woman I actually feel bad for all the 'good guys' who must feel like you describe above. Remember once I was leaving a club to walk home and this drunk guy I'd briefly talked to inside decided he was coming home with me. Couldn't shake him off and I was getting nearer home when I managed to get across a road quicker than him and spotted a couple of lads up ahead. Took a split second decision whether to trust these two lads to help me out, but remember thinking that could be a risky thing to do. Anyway, I quickly explained the situation to them and they said I could walk with them (and shared their chips with me!) until I was near enough to break away and leg it home. Think the other guy gave up when he saw I was with other people but I wasn't taking any chances of him seeing where I lived.

Usually talk on my phone if I'm on my own now, although I've had friends say that can leave you open to a mugging and certainly friends in London have been warned not to do that.

I've always been a naturally helpful person, so If I see someone broken down, I'll stop and check they are OK. Had one incident when I was about 29, I saw a young girl broken down, so pulled up to check she was OK, she looked absolutely terrified seeing me pull up and walk towards her car, so I just mouthed a quick "You OK" and then left. Felt bad doing that, but my presence was distressing her more.

As for the phone, I'd agree with your friends, you're too distracted and are actually making yourself look like a potential target. My Dad was a 2nd Dan blackbelt in Karate and taught self defence classes and he used to say that women should walk stood straight, look confident and be aware of their surroundings. There was a woman in our gun club who had been attacked twice, my Dad pointed out that they way she carried herself, how she sort of curled in on herself and made herself look small and timid made her attractive to predators.
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Offline .adam

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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2021, 04:47:30 pm »
I don't really want to share too much information to protect those involved but I have met Sarah a few times as we share a mutual connection.

This whole incident has shocked me quite deeply, more than any other. It saddens me so much to think of what her family is going through and what she experienced if what is suspected to have happened has actually happened.

My wife and I are of a similar age and I have told her many many times not to take any risks when she is out without me. We live near a park which should could walk through as the most direct route to get home after getting off the tram - we've agreed she will walk around the park when it is dark. It's so sad that she has to do this and consider these risks, it simply shouldn't be something women need to think about.

My thoughts go out to her family.

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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2021, 04:55:52 pm »
I don't really want to share too much information to protect those involved but I have met Sarah a few times as we share a mutual connection.

This whole incident has shocked me quite deeply, more than any other. It saddens me so much to think of what her family is going through and what she experienced if what is suspected to have happened has actually happened.


My wife and I are of a similar age and I have told her many many times not to take any risks when she is out without me. We live near a park which should could walk through as the most direct route to get home after getting off the tram - we've agreed she will walk around the park when it is dark. It's so sad that she has to do this and consider these risks, it simply shouldn't be something women need to think about.

My thoughts go out to her family.

Sorry to hear this - difficult to know what to say to provide effective support, but do know that you've got your community here as always.


The 'it could be anyone' - particularly any woman - nature of these terrible situations can knock anyone for six, so I can't begin to imagine how it must feel even just to have a victim in your wider 'orbit', never mind to know them.

I too am 33 and I work in careers/employability/recruitment - lots of my contacts are late-20s/early-30s London-based young professionals, and the majority are young women.  Though I claim no connection or proximity whatsoever, my mind did throw up the thought that there are probably people I know with similar lifestyles, ambitions, routines - possibly even in the same area - and so on.  The ever-present, unfair, and largely indiscriminate nature of the vulnerability & the threat make it such a terrible reality to have to live with.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2021, 05:11:23 pm by jackh »

Offline rob1966

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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2021, 04:58:45 pm »
I don't really want to share too much information to protect those involved but I have met Sarah a few times as we share a mutual connection.

This whole incident has shocked me quite deeply, more than any other. It saddens me so much to think of what her family is going through and what she experienced if what is suspected to have happened has actually happened.

My wife and I are of a similar age and I have told her many many times not to take any risks when she is out without me. We live near a park which should could walk through as the most direct route to get home after getting off the tram - we've agreed she will walk around the park when it is dark. It's so sad that she has to do this and consider these risks, it simply shouldn't be something women need to think about.

My thoughts go out to her family.

I used to know a girl who was murdered when she was 21 by en ex boyfriend, it's harrowing to think of what happened to her.

I keep telling my missus not to walk through the local park when its dark, she argues with me as she is very confident and almost 6ft tall. If she has a night out with mates, I insist I pick her up, I refuse to let he get a cab these days with the give a plate to anyone culture. Maybe it's more me putting my worries onto her and wanting to take care of her? - she's always walked home/got night buses and taxis before we met.
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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2021, 05:10:09 pm »
Thanks for sharing.  As others have said, very powerful indeed.

Saw a comment earlier from a stand up doing a serious bit in his act.  He was saying that essentially 9 out of 10 blokes are pretty good guys, but if they don't do or say anything when it comes to this then we might as well not fucking be there.  I think that's something we all could learn from and need to understand.  We, personally, might not be the problem, but if we aren't being the solution, or at least trying to be part of the solution, then we are nowhere on this.

How we do that is down to each of us individually I guess.  Speak up, call it out and stop that "friend" (we all have them) being a dickhead.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2021, 05:13:31 pm by Kekule »

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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2021, 06:04:54 pm »
Great post Sian.

This is a sickening story. Really upsetting on so many levels.
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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2021, 06:53:03 pm »
I keep telling my missus not to walk through the local park when its dark, she argues with me as she is very confident and almost 6ft tall. If she has a night out with mates, I insist I pick her up, I refuse to let he get a cab these days with the give a plate to anyone culture. Maybe it's more me putting my worries onto her and wanting to take care of her? - she's always walked home/got night buses and taxis before we met.

I used to be extremely anxious about my now-wife-then-girlfriend whenever she had a night out. She had a habit of wandering off from her friends when drunk and making her own way home. It terrified me, and the wait for a reply to a text checking in that she’d got home safe used to be painful (this was when we lived in different places, otherwise I’d have picked her up!) It’s not her fault of course, she had every right to do what she wanted and make her own choices - it’s because we live in an environment where it’s expected that women face horrible possibilities in such situations.

Our daughter is 5, and it scares me to think how worried I’m going to be about her when she’s older and is the one going out at night.

Powerful post Sian, and RIP Sarah. Just awful.

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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2021, 07:05:53 pm »
Very raw and powerful reading Sian, I admit to shedding a tear reading that.

Its horrible beyond words, it really is.

I always remember years ago, probably the early 90s, a nurse went missing and I think she worked in the Royal Hospital (Liverpool). They found her body up near Prescot, which is really close to where I live in Huyton.
It transpired a bus driver had murdered her, she'd been on one of the Manchester buses that used to go between Liverpool and Wigan and had been the only person left on the bus.

I remember being horrified that a person as normal as a bus driver could do something like this, you think of murderers as monsters, not average people in the street.

My thoughts are with this girls family, friends and co-workers, I hope the guy who done it rots.
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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2021, 07:10:41 pm »
Share quite a few of the experiences Sian has expressed.  The school stuff, the bar incident - although it was on the train.  Groped on the Kop back in the day on a regular basis.  All of it leaves a scar.

RIP Sarah
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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2021, 07:17:23 pm »
A friend of mine, well actually the sister of a really good friend, got murdered 25 years ago on Christmas Eve after leaving a nightclub.  I was at the nightclub the same night club, I chatted to her just before she left with the same wanker that killed her (none of us knew him).  There was a mass search organised by the police, which me and her brother's other mates volunteered for.  We didn't find her, they found her body days after the search of an area which was thoroughly examined, we all think the twat that did it actually went on the search and then moved her body.  The only way he was caught was via a mass DNA testing scheme (think it was the biggest in the UK at the time), I had to give DNA (which my new girlfriend now wife was a bit freaked out by as she was sat next to me when the police arrived) because I was on the guestlist the club had (it was ticket only).  The prick was in South Africa at the time, but as it was ticket only he was also on the guestlist and police tracked him.

This shaped how I treat my daughters no end.  They're 18 and 16, the latter goes out (or did pre Covid) more than her sister, I read her the riot act before she leaves, even if its 7pm and still light. I get accused of being strict and old and all that shite, oh and sexist, I don't sit my son down and warn him.  This poor girl and her poor family, this is my worst fear.  I wish they always stayed kids.  Nobody should have to warn their daughters about the monsters that live among us, but it's necessary.

The girl's brother is in prison now which makes it even more heartbreaking.  He, understandably, went off the rails and turned to drugs (well Moreso) and has been in and out of prison since.

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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2021, 08:07:52 pm »
Quote
BREAKING: Independent Office for Police Conduct investigating two Met police officers over conduct relating to indecent exposure allegation against suspect in Sarah Everard case.

IOPC says it now has five referrals in the case of the murdered marketing manager.

"Our investigation will look at the actions of the MPS after police received a report on 28 February (2021) that a man had exposed himself at a fast food restaurant in South London."

https://twitter.com/thejohnsimpson/status/1370091081816231939

Reading between the lines this sounds awful - was he protected from arrest by these two Met officers just 11 days before?
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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2021, 08:15:08 pm »
Reading between the lines this sounds awful - was he protected from arrest by these two Met officers just 11 days before?

Its certainly reads like they haven't acted appropriately in dealing with the incident.
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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2021, 08:22:13 pm »
Its certainly reads like they haven't acted appropriately in dealing with the incident.

Apologies, she went missing on the 3rd March, so it would have been just 3 days after the indecent exposure. With that sort of time frame there's a good chance he should have been in police custody and nowhere near her on the day.
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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2021, 08:31:19 pm »
Reading between the lines this sounds awful - was he protected from arrest by these two Met officers just 11 days before?

We all know how just those IOPC/IPCC investigations are

Lets see if they try to whitewash this.

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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2021, 08:33:26 pm »
Apologies, she went missing on the 3rd March, so it would have been just 3 days after the indecent exposure. With that sort of time frame there's a good chance he should have been in police custody and nowhere near her on the day.

The Met's about to be in a whole heap of shit... you'd hope.

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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2021, 08:39:38 pm »
Guy arrested was treated in hospital today for a head injury sky news reported earlier.  Apparently suffered the injury after being taken into custody.

Offline rob1966

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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2021, 08:39:52 pm »
The Met's about to be in a whole heap of shit... you'd hope.

Sadly I fear they will cover this up as much as they can. The Met are hated by other forces.
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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2021, 08:45:19 pm »
That's a really powerful post Sian and mortifying if you're a man. I'm ashamed that as a teenager I snapped a girls bra strap or beeped/shouted out the window at a girl when driving around in my car and didn't think anything of it at the time. When you grow up you realise it's wrong but it shouldn't take a man until the they've been on this earth a few decades that they shouldn't do those things. I've seen the "protect your daughters, educate your sons" memes on the internet throughout the day and it couldn't be more true, boys need to be educated from a young age that this is not ok and not how a woman should be treated, only then will society change for the better from it. Women shouldn't have to feel scared when walking anywhere at any time, they shouldn't have to feel angry for being scared when someone passes them or is walking behind them.


This has made me do quite a bit of reflecting, all men should be reflecting right now on they can change their behaviour and if they aren't then there's something wrong. There's still things I can change now. I've walked down a street behind a woman and thought "I hope she doesn't think I'm following her" without changing roads or making it aware I mean no harm. I've sat in the same section of the tube carriage as a woman when we were the only two in that carriage. There are probably countless other examples where I've unintentionally made a woman feel uncomfortable just from my presence and I need to change that, all men need to change that.


My heart bleeds for Sarah Everard and all women who are victims of crimes like this. We must do better.

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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2021, 08:45:27 pm »
Was reading about how the suspect was arrested.  Apparently it was cctv from a passing bus that caught an ‘incident’ and led to his arrest.

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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2021, 08:56:21 pm »
Was reading about how the suspect was arrested.  Apparently it was cctv from a passing bus that caught an ‘incident’ and led to his arrest.
Been a few bus cameras solving crimes lately, we might not like being watched all the time but it definitely comes in handy sometimes.

Offline rob1966

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Re: Sarah Everard
« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2021, 09:00:03 pm »
Was reading about how the suspect was arrested.  Apparently it was cctv from a passing bus that caught an ‘incident’ and led to his arrest.

I knew they had been looking at doorbell cameras and did wonder if something had been caught on a dashcam as well.
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