Topic: Old photos of and around Liverpool

[JohnnoWhite]

My Dad used to talk about the poverty they endured before the war in the thirties, going to school in the Dingle and how half the class never had shoes

Aye Albie - wherever the working class happened to be, it was the same old same old. And the callous Tory bastards and their lackeys had the bare-faced cheek to come round to the church-mouse poor' houses to conduct the fucking means test!!!

I well know our two cities have a long-established and far too often sadly misguided football club loyalties that lead some to have had bitter and savage confrontations over the years but FFS, can we not all step back and take a fresh look at what really ought to UNITE our working class people to identify who REALLY are our TRUE enemies? The old adage still holds - however funny their accents sound  - that our people united, can never be defeated!!

[rob1966]

Looking at way the fellas are dressed Rob I’d say the old one unless they got the grumbleweeds and the Lancashire Hot pots to do it 😀

I didn't really look at the clothes

Yes, that'll be the old tunnel

[gazzam1963]

Aye Albie - wherever the working class happened to be, it was the same old same old. And the callous Tory bastards and their lackeys had the bare-faced cheek to come round to the church-mouse poor' houses to conduct the fucking means test!!!

I well know our two cities have a long-established and far too often sadly misguided football club loyalties that lead some to have had bitter and savage confrontations over the years but FFS, can we not all step back and take a fresh look at what really ought to UNITE our working class people to identify who REALLY are our TRUE enemies? The old adage still holds - however funny their accents sound  - that our people united, can never be defeated!!

Talking about the dingle and pre war , my great grandmother lived in beresford road and had five kids  , three boys and two girls ( one was my nan ) . In 1929 on Xmas eve her husband was killed in accident on the martins bank site on water street next to the town hall leaving her a widow with the kids aged between 2 and 15 .

She had no money to bury him and a few months later was really struggling so approached the parish for help , they said they wouldn’t financially support her but offered to take her three sons off her and send them to the seamen’s orphanage .

She refused saying they would end up in either Canada or Australia and she wasn’t having that so walked out with them all got a job in Sefton General with her eldest ( my Nan ) they both worked 8 until 6 six days a week

My Grandad lived in dingle house and often told us he had no shoes as a kid , his brother also killed another man by throwing him over one of the balconies after a fight .

[Big Red Richie]

I used to play footy for The Beresford. (the nutty), before it closed.   

[Alan574]

Where it all began..well..







 



..and then the planners had other ideas!



 



 
Cue the Celtic shout! 



Think I've posted this before but still absolutely gobsmacks me..

The bottom photo with the bomb damage shows Telegraph house in South John street.  It was repaired and carried on being the Telegram office for Liverpool and surrounding areas.  Not sure but it might have had a telephone exchange there as well?  I worked there in the late seventies before it closed down and staff moved to Old Hall street.  Telegrams became defunct in Liverpool around 1981.

[gazzam1963]

The bottom photo with the bomb damage shows Telegraph house in South John street.  It was repaired and carried on being the Telegram office for Liverpool and surrounding areas.  Not sure but it might have had a telephone exchange there as well?  I worked there in the late seventies before it closed down and staff moved to Old Hall street.  Telegrams became defunct in Liverpool around 1981.

The big piece of land looks like it became the bus terminal were the 26 used to terminate

[Alan574]

The big piece of land looks like it became the bus terminal were the 26 used to terminate

It was the bus depot until they redeveloped Paradise street.

[the 92A]

Aye Albie - wherever the working class happened to be, it was the same old same old. And the callous Tory bastards and their lackeys had the bare-faced cheek to come round to the church-mouse poor' houses to conduct the fucking means test!!!

I well know our two cities have a long-established and far too often sadly misguided football club loyalties that lead some to have had bitter and savage confrontations over the years but FFS, can we not all step back and take a fresh look at what really ought to UNITE our working class people to identify who REALLY are our TRUE enemies? The old adage still holds - however funny their accents sound  - that our people united, can never be defeated!!

In the late seventies when I wasn't working, the social wanted an interview with me at home, My dad wouldn't have them in the house although my dole would be stopped if I didn't have the interview, because as far as he was concerned, he wouldn't have the UAB (unemployed assistance board) as he called them in the house because of bad experiences that stuck with him for life in the thirties, tales of with them coming to houses and weighing up what could be sold, before you could get the minimum assistance to prevent starvation, he hated the indignity they endured those days, real poverty, having to go to  the parish etc, it stuck with him for life, I once bought a pair of Levis corduroys and he couldn't believe I'd paid good money for them, Parish clothes corduroys, he muttered. He was at sea as a cabin boy at 14 during the war to escape the poverty. Compromise I made with the fella from the dole, who was alright as it happene, was he interviewed me on the step, just had to establish I lived where I said, but my dad was adamant no one from the dole was getting in his house

[JohnnoWhite]

Life lessons learned by your dad in the hungry 30's last an entire lifetime. Same stories in ours Albie - my dad was born 1923 so was a lad but my mam's dad God rest him, was just like your arl fella - he had no time whatsoever for the spies.

[Indomitable_Carp]

Talking about the dingle and pre war , my great grandmother lived in beresford road and had five kids  , three boys and two girls ( one was my nan ) . In 1929 on Xmas eve her husband was killed in accident on the martins bank site on water street next to the town hall leaving her a widow with the kids aged between 2 and 15 .

My Grandad was an orphan originally from the Dingle. His parents couldn´t look after him, and so gave him up to his grandmother to look after on David Street. In the end she couldn´t look after him either so he was stuck up in an orphanage. He lucked out though - as he was adopted by a wealthy American woman called Gwladys who took him in and out of the city. She was what was termed  a "spinster" back in the day -and he only ever called her by her name. He only ever returned to the city in his Merchant Navy days before the war (my dads a Southerner!!). Never knew his birthday so gave himself the date of June 1st 1915.

He told my dad his earliest and one of his only memories of the Dingle as a child was running down to the docks where he was picked up by a docker who threatened to throw him into a blast furnace if he didn´t behave. How accurate that memory is I don´t know, as I don´t know if they would have had furnaces on the docks.

[kavah]

^ there was a foundry in the article Kesey linked to in the “names not on the map thread”

[So… Howard Philips]

In the late seventies when I wasn't working, the social wanted an interview with me at home, My dad wouldn't have them in the house although my dole would be stopped if I didn't have the interview, because as far as he was concerned, he wouldn't have the UAB (unemployed assistance board) as he called them in the house because of bad experiences that stuck with him for life in the thirties, tales of with them coming to houses and weighing up what could be sold, before you could get the minimum assistance to prevent starvation, he hated the indignity they endured those days, real poverty, having to go to  the parish etc, it stuck with him for life, I once bought a pair of Levis corduroys and he couldn't believe I'd paid good money for them, Parish clothes corduroys, he muttered. He was at sea as a cabin boy at 14 during the war to escape the poverty. Compromise I made with the fella from the dole, who was alright as it happene, was he interviewed me on the step, just had to establish I lived where I said, but my dad was adamant no one from the dole was getting in his house

In the 60s it was still known as the NAB - National Assistance Board, or maybe that was just a South Endism.

[Indomitable_Carp]

^ there was a foundry in the article Kesey linked to in the “names not on the map thread”

Cheers for that! Nice find. Looks like his memory may have been spot on afterall.

[redbyrdz]

^ there was a foundry in the article Kesey linked to in the “names not on the map thread”

The foundry was before the docks though. Afaik there isn't much known about it, apart from that they seemed to have made the beams for St Michael's church there.
There was also a big pottery (which would have had a furnace) called Heraculeum, which named the overhead station that later stood in the same spot (and the pub that's still there).

Both the foundry and the pottery where gone when they dug out the Heraculeum docks, and now the docks have been filled in again too and there's a housing estate on it.

[Indomitable_Carp]

To be fair, I think this memory must have been from when he was about 4 years old, if not younger (would have been sometime around or before 1919/1920), and recounted to my dad a good 70 years later.

The dock was built in 1866, and the neighbouring docks even earlier then that, so he wasn´t remembering the pottery or furnace/foundary.

I am wandering if there might have been any other hot furnace or boiler like objects down or around the docks at that time? I´m guessing the majority of steam-powdered engines were phased out by then?

Of course there is every chance he just greatly exaggerated it in his memory. Maybe a docker was threatening to stub a ciggy out on him 

[rob1966]

To be fair, I think this memory must have been from when he was about 4 years old, if not younger (would have been sometime around or before 1919/1920), and recounted to my dad a good 70 years later.

The dock was built in 1866, and the neighbouring docks even earlier then that, so he wasn´t remembering the pottery or furnace/foundary.

I am wandering if there might have been any other hot furnace or boiler like objects down or around the docks at that time? I´m guessing the majority of steam-powdered engines were phased out by then?

Of course there is every chance he just greatly exaggerated it in his memory. Maybe a docker was threatening to stub a ciggy out on him 

Could have been something as simple as the round bin heaters the watchmen used to burn stuff in to keep warm (cannot for the life of me remember what they are called)

[redbyrdz]

To be fair, I think this memory must have been from when he was about 4 years old, if not younger (would have been sometime around or before 1919/1920), and recounted to my dad a good 70 years later.

The dock was built in 1866, and the neighbouring docks even earlier then that, so he wasn´t remembering the pottery or furnace/foundary.

I am wandering if there might have been any other hot furnace or boiler like objects down or around the docks at that time? I´m guessing the majority of steam-powdered engines were phased out by then?

Of course there is every chance he just greatly exaggerated it in his memory. Maybe a docker was threatening to stub a ciggy out on him 

There was a big railway yard, so maybe there were still some steam engines around.

However, I think a lot of the dock and rail goods might have had to do with the gas and oil tanks just south of the docks. Even with H&S of those days, I can't imagine a furnance just right next to them.

The docker might have also just used a threat he'd been on the receiving end of before. Did your grandad remember the furnace, or just the guy saying he'll throw him in one?

[redbyrdz]

Actually thinking about it, weren't two of the docks repair docks? They might have had a furnace there for iron works.

[Indomitable_Carp]

The docker might have also just used a threat he'd been on the receiving end of before. Did your grandad remember the furnace, or just the guy saying he'll throw him in one?

Wish I knew and unfortunately about 20 years too late to ask him!! Actually there is a lot of things I wished I´d asked him. I´ve got his Navy war medals and naval jacket as well - but never really got a chance to properly quiz him on those either. I´ll ask my Dad next time I see him. Whatever it was, it was enough to put the shits up my Grandad that he remembered it all those years later 

Actually, considering I lived in the South of the city for most of my life, I really didn´t know anything about the cities southern docks, and hadn´t even been down the Dockers Steps (which presumably my Grandad would have been running down as a little urchin if that was where he ended up) until I started reading the threads in this section of RAWK

[redbyrdz]

I think the docker's steps were gated and had a guard at the top to stop the little urchins. At least that's what people who lived here then seem to remember. I was thinking about the way he could've run, I think maybe he went down Horsfell st, which crossed the railway by where Brunswick station is now, or a street a bit further towards town. That would've took him to the dock entrace, where the Chinese restaurant is now.

[So… Howard Philips]

Could have been something as simple as the round bin heaters the watchmen used to burn stuff in to keep warm (cannot for the life of me remember what they are called)

Braziers.

My grandad was a cocky watchman and had a coke fired brazier. You'd always see them near roadworks.

[Alan574]

In the late seventies when I wasn't working, the social wanted an interview with me at home, My dad wouldn't have them in the house although my dole would be stopped if I didn't have the interview, because as far as he was concerned, he wouldn't have the UAB (unemployed assistance board) as he called them in the house because of bad experiences that stuck with him for life in the thirties, tales of with them coming to houses and weighing up what could be sold, before you could get the minimum assistance to prevent starvation, he hated the indignity they endured those days, real poverty, having to go to  the parish etc, it stuck with him for life, I once bought a pair of Levis corduroys and he couldn't believe I'd paid good money for them, Parish clothes corduroys, he muttered. He was at sea as a cabin boy at 14 during the war to escape the poverty. Compromise I made with the fella from the dole, who was alright as it happene, was he interviewed me on the step, just had to establish I lived where I said, but my dad was adamant no one from the dole was getting in his house

If you can ever get hold of it, the book "Idle hands, clenched fists" is a really good read about the Birkenhead riots of 1932. This was all started by the cut to benefits and the means test.  As usual, the ordinary people were cast as the baddies and many were fitted up and ended up in prison.

[So… Howard Philips]

If you can ever get hold of it, the book "Idle hands, clenched fists" is a really good read about the Birkenhead riots of 1932. This was all started by the cut to benefits and the means test.  As usual, the ordinary people were cast as the baddies and many were fitted up and ended up in prison.

Never heard of the Birkenhead riots. Warships in the Mersey yes.

[redbyrdz]

Dunno if this has been posted, just saw on youtube, "A day in Liverpool (1929)", half an hour of pre-war footage, mostly from the docks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8oBFjF8OV4

[Medellin]

Is that the old tunnel or the new one?

Old..1929/30 dated here.

https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/photos/item/MTA01/01/10

Just found this too..

[Medellin]

'Speke Castle' 1974..not seen this before!



Allinsons Litherland 1978.



We had a front door like this!

[John C]

Old..1929/30 dated here.

I love that pic of the tunnel mate, superb. I remember when I was really young my uncle taking us down that slip road. What year did it close?

[Medellin]

I love that pic of the tunnel mate, superb. I remember when I was really young my uncle taking us down that slip road. What year did it close?

Is this what you mean John?

"The tunnel originally had two branches — one to New Quay on the Liverpool side, the other to Rendell Street in Birkenhead. The Birkenhead branch closed in 1965."

https://www.ice.org.uk/what-is-civil-engineering/what-do-civil-engineers-do/queensway-road-tunnel

[rob1966]

We had a front door like this!

My Mum used to leave me in the street in the pram like that when we lived in St Hilda Street, until one day she got a weird feeling and walked out and caught some old woman pushing the pram away from the house.

[So… Howard Philips]

My Mum used to leave me in the street in the pram like that when we lived in St Hilda Street, until one day she got a weird feeling and walked out and caught some old woman pushing the pram away from the house.

She was probably nicking it to use the wheels for a go kart.

[gazzam1963]

My Mum used to leave me in the street in the pram like that when we lived in St Hilda Street, until one day she got a weird feeling and walked out and caught some old woman pushing the pram away from the house.

I read a few years ago that a majority of terraced houses in Liverpool had railings like that outside but they were all taken down for scrap metal for the war effort of ww2

[vivabobbygraham]

  Used to occasionally boogie in there on a Satdee night. 72-74. If you didn't get a tail home or back to the trains in Edge Hill sidings after Reeces which closed at midnight, then we'd try and get in the top rank. A lot of the Liverpool 8 lads went there for the music, got introduced to proper dancing, James Brown and stuff. Could get a bit lively outside like...

[rob1966]

She was probably nicking it to use the wheels for a go kart.

She must have wanted me to drive it, cos I was still in the thing

I read a few years ago that a majority of terraced houses in Liverpool had railings like that outside but they were all taken down for scrap metal for the war effort of ww2

I do seem to remember seeing little stubs outside houses as a kid where the railings had been removed.

[Medellin]

1977.

[So… Howard Philips]

1977.

Elvis Costelloe and Debbie Harry working up an appetite before heading into the Berni Inn for steak and chips and a nice half bottle of Mateus rose.

[Medellin]

Elvis Costelloe and Debbie Harry working up an appetite before heading into the Berni Inn for steak and chips and a nice half bottle of Mateus rose.

It's defo Blondie, looks like Elvis Costello too!

One I ain't seen before..Is that Rob I see in the background starting his first haulage job? 

[rob1966]

It's defo Blondie, looks like Elvis Costello too!

One I ain't seen before..Is that Rob I see in the background starting his first haulage job? 

[Tesco tearaway]

It's defo Blondie, looks like Elvis Costello too!

One I ain't seen before..Is that Rob I see in the background starting his first haulage job? 

Shaking his fist in anger at that ruddy cyclist getting in his way 

[rob1966]

Shaking his fist in anger at that ruddy cyclist getting in his way 

Don't forget those bloody lane hoggers too

[Medellin]

Place & year please..first to get both right wins a bag of jellytots.
No cheating!