Topic: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say

[shravan.satya]

Meat eater for 31 years. Been a vegan for the past 1 year. Of course, just my one example is not statistically strong enough to make a case for veganism, however, I welcome anyone to post their questions on veganism here. There are 2 undisputable aspects to veganism, environmental and health.

Environmental:

Like it or not, it is a lifestyle that directly contributes to reducing the carbon emissions. Animal farming contributes about 25% of overall greenhouse gas emissions. That is almost on par with emissions due to fossil fuels. The EU has a made a decision to reduce the carbon emissions by 55% by 2030. Unfortunately they will not address the factory farming situation. They will only target the fossil fuels when they should be targeting both. So, if you are a person who respects science and cares for the environment, if you believe that man made global warming is a real thing, there is a certain hypocrisy in turning a blind eye to the obvious fact that meat and dairy industries are destroying the environment.

Health:

I have been a meat eater for 31 years. I have been mostly plant-based for the past 3 years and strictly a vegan for the past year. I grew up in a family that loves their meat, dairy and fish. In fact, for most of my life, I could not eat a meal without meat or fish in it. I despised vegetarian foods. After doing my research in various diets for about 2 years, I decided to go plant-based. I was sick of the chronic asthma and being over-weight. I have never felt better. I am a scientist by profession and I could not ignore both my health and the environmental impact of the meat and dairy industry, not to mention the deeply immoral practice of factory farming.

But I get the skepticism and indifference. I hated on vegans as well for the longest time because I feared what I did not know. I could not fathom living without meat or dairy. As far as the discussion in this thread is concerned, there is a lot of BS flying around. You eliminate all risk of a heart attack on a whole food plant-based diet. It is nothing but a paper tiger. The only thing that can cause it is blockage in arteries. Saturated fats cause that and they are primarily present in meat (mostly red meat), dairy and processed foods (vegetarian and otherwise). The research showing the reduced risk of cancer on a plant-based diet is immense.

I can go on and on, but I encourage a constructive dialogue. If you have specific questions, I can quote sources with proper research not funded by vested interests. Vegan athletes are outperforming non-vegan athletes as far as leveraging every last bit of potential is concerned. In every sport. We can debate on that as well.

Lastly, you will need supplements for B12 on a vegan diet. Nothing else. You get every other vitamin and mineral you need on a plant-based diet. However, these days, the super market aisles are full of plant-based milks fortified with B12 and other vitamins. Nutritional yeast comes loaded with B12 and it is delicious. My most recent bloodwork had a higher than normal levels of B12 and every other vitamin despite eating no meat for 12 months. Please do not fall for the stereotyped BS. Do your research and when you look at research papers, always see who funded the research.

[Nobby Reserve]

Vitamin B12 is not made by plants or by animals, but by bacteria. You can easily meet your vitamin B12 needs with a daily supplement.

Will nobody think of the bacteria??

 

[KlurgenJopp]

I'd love to read the study which shows that a plant-based diet eliminate all risk of heart attack.

[Flaccido Dongingo]

Meat eater for 31 years. Been a vegan for the past 1 year. Of course, just my one example is not statistically strong enough to make a case for veganism, however, I welcome anyone to post their questions on veganism here. There are 2 undisputable aspects to veganism, environmental and health.

Environmental:

Like it or not, it is a lifestyle that directly contributes to reducing the carbon emissions. Animal farming contributes about 25% of overall greenhouse gas emissions. That is almost on par with emissions due to fossil fuels. The EU has a made a decision to reduce the carbon emissions by 55% by 2030. Unfortunately they will not address the factory farming situation. They will only target the fossil fuels when they should be targeting both. So, if you are a person who respects science and cares for the environment, if you believe that man made global warming is a real thing, there is a certain hypocrisy in turning a blind eye to the obvious fact that meat and dairy industries are destroying the environment.

Health:

I have been a meat eater for 31 years. I have been mostly plant-based for the past 3 years and strictly a vegan for the past year. I grew up in a family that loves their meat, dairy and fish. In fact, for most of my life, I could not eat a meal without meat or fish in it. I despised vegetarian foods. After doing my research in various diets for about 2 years, I decided to go plant-based. I was sick of the chronic asthma and being over-weight. I have never felt better. I am a scientist by profession and I could not ignore both my health and the environmental impact of the meat and dairy industry, not to mention the deeply immoral practice of factory farming.

But I get the skepticism and indifference. I hated on vegans as well for the longest time because I feared what I did not know. I could not fathom living without meat or dairy. As far as the discussion in this thread is concerned, there is a lot of BS flying around. You eliminate all risk of a heart attack on a whole food plant-based diet. It is nothing but a paper tiger. The only thing that can cause it is blockage in arteries. Saturated fats cause that and they are primarily present in meat (mostly red meat), dairy and processed foods (vegetarian and otherwise). The research showing the reduced risk of cancer on a plant-based diet is immense.

I can go on and on, but I encourage a constructive dialogue. If you have specific questions, I can quote sources with proper research not funded by vested interests. Vegan athletes are outperforming non-vegan athletes as far as leveraging every last bit of potential is concerned. In every sport. We can debate on that as well.

Lastly, you will need supplements for B12 on a vegan diet. Nothing else. You get every other vitamin and mineral you need on a plant-based diet. However, these days, the super market aisles are full of plant-based milks fortified with B12 and other vitamins. Nutritional yeast comes loaded with B12 and it is delicious. My most recent bloodwork had a higher than normal levels of B12 and every other vitamin despite eating no meat for 12 months. Please do not fall for the stereotyped BS. Do your research and when you look at research papers, always see who funded the research.

Do you fart more, or less now that you're vegan, that's a serious question by the way, as I've read vegans are known for it.

[Elmo!]

Do you fart more, or less now that you're vegan, that's a serious question by the way, as I've read vegans are known for it.

That's just hot air from Big Meat.

[Port_vale_lad]

wouldnt of thought theres mushroom for vegans at the top level

but we are all human beans so lettuce wait a beet more and pea what happens

[afc tukrish]

wouldnt of thought theres mushroom for vegans at the top level

but we are all human beans so lettuce wait a beet more and pea what happens

Cruciferous applause for the punnery...

[shravan.satya]

Do you fart more, or less now that you're vegan, that's a serious question by the way, as I've read vegans are known for it.

It comes down to the intake of fiber. Meat has no fiber, so you are not feeding your gut bacteria when you eat a diet high in meat, eggs and dairy. But you need protein in your vegan diet, so you start eating a lot of beans, lentils and chickpeas. You also tend to increase your intake of oatmeal and other complex carbs if you are anal about your health. What this does is it drastically increases the fiber you are giving your body. The gut bacteria is not ready for it initially. So a lot of it gets processed poorly in your gut and releases gas. It takes about 4 to 5 weeks of strict whole food plant based eating to get a point where you don't pass untimely gas. During this time, your gut bacteria multiplies to a tremendous number and processes all the fiber you are giving it.

[shravan.satya]

I'd love to read the study which shows that a plant-based diet eliminate all risk of heart attack.

Here's one for you.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.119.012865#:~:text=Healthful%20plant%E2%80%90based%20diets%2C%20diets,but%20not%20incident%20cardiovascular%20disease.

Remember, we are talking about heart disease in a traditional sense, which is clogging of arteries leading to a stroke. Even on a plant-based diet, it is about reducing the saturated fats. Live only on french fries and diet coke, you are technically a vegan, but you can fucking die of a heart attack. "Whole foods" is key here.

[shravan.satya]

Here's one for you.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.119.012865#:~:text=Healthful%20plant%E2%80%90based%20diets%2C%20diets,but%20not%20incident%20cardiovascular%20disease.

Remember, we are talking about heart disease in a traditional sense, which is clogging of arteries leading to a stroke. Even on a plant-based diet, it is about reducing the saturated fats. Live only on french fries and diet coke, you are technically a vegan, but you can fucking die of a heart attack. "Whole foods" is key here.

I also recommend the book "prevent and reverse heart disease" by Dr. Caldwell Esselsteyn from Cleveland Clinic. He is the leading authority on heart disease research at least here in America.

[Dull Tools]

Do you fart more, or less now that you're vegan, that's a serious question by the way, as I've read vegans are known for it.

Funnily enough going vegan reduces problems with erectile dysfunction. Judging by your name on here, that may help you.

[Alan_X]

Here's one for you.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.119.012865#:~:text=Healthful%20plant%E2%80%90based%20diets%2C%20diets,but%20not%20incident%20cardiovascular%20disease.

Remember, we are talking about heart disease in a traditional sense, which is clogging of arteries leading to a stroke. Even on a plant-based diet, it is about reducing the saturated fats. Live only on french fries and diet coke, you are technically a vegan, but you can fucking die of a heart attack. "Whole foods" is key here.

That says a plant based diet reduces the risk of heart disease. It doesn't say it eliminates it.

[Alan_X]

I also recommend the book "prevent and reverse heart disease" by Dr. Caldwell Esselsteyn from Cleveland Clinic. He is the leading authority on heart disease research at least here in America.

Heres a piece on Science Based Medicine about Esselsteyn's diet:

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/bill-clintons-diet/

And interestingly, for someone who you claim is the leading heart specialist, he trained as a general surgeon and came across his Eureka moment while researching cancer:

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/08/19/heart.attack.proof.diet/index.html

From that same article:

"Diet alone is not going to be the reason that heart attacks are eliminated," says Nancy Brown, CEO of the American Heart Association. Still, what would the AHA know about heart disease.

I'm on board that reducing meat intake and a better diet is good for you and good for your heart. But when someone is peddling diet books and running a 'wellness' clinic my sceptical alarm bells start ringing. Just had a look at the Cleveland Clinic's website and this list of bullshit treatments is at the bottom:

Acupuncture
Brain Health & Wellness
Chinese Herbal Therapy
Chiropractic Services
Culinary Medicine
Guided Imagery
Holistic Psychotherapy - bollocks
Integrative & Lifestyle Medicine
Integrative Pain Management
Integrative Recovery
Massage Therapy
Nutrition Services
Reiki
TRIM-LIFE Weight Management
Wellness
Yoga

Not only are most of them nonsense, some of them are dangerous.

Veganism isn't a magic bullet. It's a life choice and a belief system that has some health benefits over a traditional western diet but that's it.

[Dull Tools]

Heres a piece on Science Based Medicine about Esselsteyn's diet:

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/bill-clintons-diet/

And interestingly, for someone who you claim is the leading heart specialist, he trained as a general surgeon and came across his Eureka moment while researching cancer:

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/08/19/heart.attack.proof.diet/index.html

From that same article:

"Diet alone is not going to be the reason that heart attacks are eliminated," says Nancy Brown, CEO of the American Heart Association. Still, what would the AHA know about heart disease.

I'm on board that reducing meat intake and a better diet is good for you and good for your heart. But when someone is peddling diet books and running a 'wellness' clinic my sceptical alarm bells start ringing. Just had a look at the Cleveland Clinic's website and this list of bullshit treatments is at the bottom:

Acupuncture
Brain Health & Wellness
Chinese Herbal Therapy
Chiropractic Services
Culinary Medicine
Guided Imagery
Holistic Psychotherapy - bollocks
Integrative & Lifestyle Medicine
Integrative Pain Management
Integrative Recovery
Massage Therapy
Nutrition Services
Reiki
TRIM-LIFE Weight Management
Wellness
Yoga

Not only are most of them nonsense, some of them are dangerous.

Veganism isn't a magic bullet. It's a life choice and a belief system that has undoubted health benefits over a traditional western diet but that's it.

Don't think he meant to say elimates. think he meant reduced.

I think it would be beneficial for the majority of the people to go vegan for the health as well as environmental, animal rights and conservation benefits.

It may not be a magic bullet but name another lifestyle change that brings as many benefits to yourself and the planet?

[Alan_X]

Don't think he meant to say elimates. think he meant reduced.

I think it would be beneficial for the majority of the people to go vegan for the health as well as environmental, animal rights and conservation benefits.

It may not be a magic bullet but name another lifestyle change that brings as many benefits to yourself and the planet?

“You eliminate all risk of a heart attack on a whole food plant-based diet. It is nothing but a paper tiger.”

He specifically said it ‘eliminates’ all risk.

It all depends on your definition of ‘benefits’. I’ve changed my diet in the last year or so to reduce meat and increase the amount of fish and vegetables. My health has improved and I get all the minerals and vitamins I need through my diet without subsidising the food supplement industry. I’ve lost weight, lowered my blood pressure and reduced my cholesterol levels without going vegan.

And it’s worth pointing out that viruses don’t give a shit about being vegan. If we were all vegan and followed vegan guidance none of us would be taking the vaccine with horrific consequences.

As I said, veganism is a belief system that has some benefits that then searches around for scientific justification. The vegan society says so explicitly on its website.

Sadly it also seems to correlate with belief in things that are useless and harmful such as organic farming, homeopathy, chiropractic and acupuncture. It also correlates worryingly to anti-vax beliefs.

So for me, reduce meat consumption and increase the amount of vegetables in my diet. We have vegetarian (possibly vegan) meals three or four times a weeks but I also love fish, meat and dairy. Live longer, help the planet but enjoy and savour all of the things the land can produce.

[Dull Tools]

“You eliminate all risk of a heart attack on a whole food plant-based diet. It is nothing but a paper tiger.”

He specifically said it ‘eliminates’ all risk.

It all depends on your definition of ‘benefits’. I’ve changed my diet in the last year or so to reduce meat and increase the amount of fish and vegetables. My health has improved and I get all the minerals and vitamins I need through my diet without subsidising the food supplement industry. I’ve lost weight, lowered my blood pressure and reduced my cholesterol levels without going vegan.

And it’s worth pointing out that viruses don’t give a shit about being vegan. If we were all vegan and followed vegan guidance none of us would be taking the vaccine with horrific consequences.

As I said, veganism is a belief system that has some benefits that then searches around for scientific justification. The vegan society says so explicitly on its website.

Sadly it also seems to correlate with belief in things that are useless and harmful such as organic farming, homeopathy, chiropractic and acupuncture. It also correlates worryingly to anti-vax beliefs.

So for me, reduce meat consumption and increase the amount of vegetables in my diet. We have vegetarian (possibly vegan) meals three or four times a weeks but I also love fish, meat and dairy. Live longer, help the planet but enjoy and savour all of the things the land can produce.

I am not sure what I understand your point about the vaccine? It is vegan as far as I am aware.

I generally believe that people should reduce the amount of meat/fish they eat as much as possible. If everyone reduced their consumption slightly (even one or two meals a week or just reducing the amount of the serving) it would help the environment and people's health drastically.

In terms of the best diet, I imagine it probably is mainly vegan with occasional meat/fish which is what we would have all eaten historically. I agree that some unprocessed meat every now again is probably ideal. I can't really see any benefits to eating dairy products but for me I have found cheese impossible to give up.   

[CraigDS]

It may not be a magic bullet but name another lifestyle change that brings as many benefits to yourself and the planet?

Stopping smoking
Stopping drinking
Stop using motorised vehicles unless absolutely necessary & walking instead
Recycling / reduction in use of single use
Stop using anything that uses palm oil (vegan, btw).

They'd likely all have a massive massive impact on individuals and the planet as a whole.

[Samie]

Become a monk.

[Elmo!]

Stop using anything that uses palm oil (vegan, btw).

The fact it is vegan is pretty irrelevant. The products it replaces are generally vegan as well.

Palm oil isn't inherently bad, in fact it is very useful because of its energy density  (compared to other alternatives you can make a huge amount of it from relatively small areas of land). The issue is just the explosion in demand for it and the lack of regualtion over cutting down forests to grow it.

[scatman]

Stopping smoking
Stopping drinking
Stop using motorised vehicles unless absolutely necessary & walking instead
Recycling / reduction in use of single use
Stop using anything that uses palm oil (vegan, btw).

They'd likely all have a massive massive impact on individuals and the planet as a whole.

reminds me of lonely island's YOLO song.

[CraigDS]

The fact it is vegan is pretty irrelevant. The products it replaces are generally vegan as well.

I was more pointing out it is used in vegan friendly products.

Palm oil isn't inherently bad, in fact it is very useful because of its energy density  (compared to other alternatives you can make a huge amount of it from relatively small areas of land). The issue is just the explosion in demand for it and the lack of regualtion over cutting down forests to grow it.

Same could be said for quite a lot of things not being "inherently bad" though (meat/fish production being one).

[Elmo!]

I was more pointing out it is used in vegan friendly products.

Same could be said for quite a lot of things not being "inherently bad" though (meat/fish production being one).

It's used in everything nowadays. It's not disproportinately used in vegan products I don't think.

What I mean though is it could prove beneficial, enviromentally and in terms of efficiently producing food when there are competing demands for land in an ever growing world population.

[wampa1]

Stopping smoking
Stopping drinking
Stop using motorised vehicles unless absolutely necessary & walking instead
Recycling / reduction in use of single use
Stop using anything that uses palm oil (vegan, btw).

They'd likely all have a massive massive impact on individuals and the planet as a whole.

Not having kids tops every suggestion.

[electricghost]

It may not be a magic bullet but name another lifestyle change that brings as many benefits to yourself and the planet?

Reducing sugar consumption is one of the most powerful health interventions available, which either a whole food meat based or plant based diet achieves. This is where most of the nutritional benefit is gained.

[Tobelius]

Not having kids tops every suggestion.

Delicate subject but propably true.

[Alan_X]

I am not sure what I understand your point about the vaccine? It is vegan as far as I am aware.

I generally believe that people should reduce the amount of meat/fish they eat as much as possible. If everyone reduced their consumption slightly (even one or two meals a week or just reducing the amount of the serving) it would help the environment and people's health drastically.

In terms of the best diet, I imagine it probably is mainly vegan with occasional meat/fish which is what we would have all eaten historically. I agree that some unprocessed meat every now again is probably ideal. I can't really see any benefits to eating dairy products but for me I have found cheese impossible to give up.   

It’s not vegan. The Vegan Society says that taking the vaccine is a difficult decision because it compromises Vegan belief.

You seem to be mixing up vegan and vegetarian.  Veganism is an extreme version of vegetarian eating  that was developed in the 19th century. It’s not science based and many or it’s early promoters were anti-medicine, promoting quackery like phrenology and hydrotherapy.

Veganism is a crackpot theory that puts the well-being of bees and insects over the well being of people. There is no scientific reason to avoid eating honey. It’s idiotic. If the argument is that honey relies on the work of bees then anything that is pollinated should also be off limits… like… vegetables, fruits, cereals, nuts…

The fact that Veganism has some incidental benefits is beside the point. If we want to survive as a species we need to look to science not a 19th century fad. Life expectancy and quality of life have improved because of medicine, vaccination, anti-biotics, developments in surgery, sanitation, housing, sterilisation and so on. 

[Dull Tools]

It’s not vegan. The Vegan Society says that taking the vaccine is a difficult decision because it compromises Vegan belief.

You seem to be mixing up vegan and vegetarian.  Veganism is an extreme version of vegetarian eating  that was developed in the 19th century. It’s not science based and many or it’s early promoters were anti-medicine, promoting quackery like phrenology and hydrotherapy.

Veganism is a crackpot theory that puts the well-being of bees and insects over the well being of people. There is no scientific reason to avoid eating honey. It’s idiotic. If the argument is that honey relies on the work of bees then anything that is pollinated should also be off limits… like… vegetables, fruits, cereals, nuts…

The fact that Veganism has some incidental benefits is beside the point. If we want to survive as a species we need to look to science not a 19th century fad. Life expectancy and quality of life have improved because of medicine, vaccination, anti-biotics, developments in surgery, sanitation, housing, sterilisation and so on.

I am not mixing them up, there is a difference between people who are dietary vegans and ethical vegans.

Most people nowadays don't buy into the full ethical vegan argument. If you look at the extremes of any belief system then there are going to be crazy people but doesn't mean you should tar everyone by the same brush.

[Elmo!]

Aye it doesn't do any favours to look at it in such a binary manner.

I would use the red meat only diet that nearly Jordan Peterson (if only....) as the basis to judge those who eat meat.

I think it is probably a bit insulting to suggest to a vegan that they are mixing up veganism and vegetarianism as well. 

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

“You eliminate all risk of a heart attack on a whole food plant-based diet. It is nothing but a paper tiger.”

He specifically said it ‘eliminates’ all risk.

It all depends on your definition of ‘benefits’. I’ve changed my diet in the last year or so to reduce meat and increase the amount of fish and vegetables. My health has improved and I get all the minerals and vitamins I need through my diet without subsidising the food supplement industry. I’ve lost weight, lowered my blood pressure and reduced my cholesterol levels without going vegan.

And it’s worth pointing out that viruses don’t give a shit about being vegan. If we were all vegan and followed vegan guidance none of us would be taking the vaccine with horrific consequences.

As I said, veganism is a belief system that has some benefits that then searches around for scientific justification. The vegan society says so explicitly on its website.

Sadly it also seems to correlate with belief in things that are useless and harmful such as organic farming, homeopathy, chiropractic and acupuncture. It also correlates worryingly to anti-vax beliefs.

So for me, reduce meat consumption and increase the amount of vegetables in my diet. We have vegetarian (possibly vegan) meals three or four times a weeks but I also love fish, meat and dairy. Live longer, help the planet but enjoy and savour all of the things the land can produce.

Well that's rather a diverse group of things you've written off there. In what way are you planning to argue that organic farming, for instance, is not only useless (really?) but also harmful?

[Red-Soldier]

Alan has very entrenched views on these subjects and seems not to have a idea of the impacts of some technology/industrialised practices have had on the environment - many of which have resulted in us being in the predicament we find ourselves in today (Climate Change and Biodiversity Loss).

Ethical vegans and dietry vegans are very different, as someone stated earlier.

Those that have a choice should all reduce their meat intake, for the good of the planet, as well as their own health.

It is important to note that many do not have choices when it comes to food.


I eat a mainly plant based diet.

[shravan.satya]

It’s not vegan. The Vegan Society says that taking the vaccine is a difficult decision because it compromises Vegan belief.

You seem to be mixing up vegan and vegetarian.  Veganism is an extreme version of vegetarian eating  that was developed in the 19th century. It’s not science based and many or it’s early promoters were anti-medicine, promoting quackery like phrenology and hydrotherapy.

Veganism is a crackpot theory that puts the well-being of bees and insects over the well being of people. There is no scientific reason to avoid eating honey. It’s idiotic. If the argument is that honey relies on the work of bees then anything that is pollinated should also be off limits… like… vegetables, fruits, cereals, nuts…

The fact that Veganism has some incidental benefits is beside the point. If we want to survive as a species we need to look to science not a 19th century fad. Life expectancy and quality of life have improved because of medicine, vaccination, anti-biotics, developments in surgery, sanitation, housing, sterilisation and so on. 

I am clearly not going to get into your Fox News style hate pedaling of a large group of people. But I am interested in the science you are talking about that does not support veganism as a sustainable lifestyle. Go ahead and give us some insights. Tell us how meat and dairy benefit your health.

What was that about the anti-vax thing? Most vegans I know are not only compassionate, but incredibly knowledgeable people in matters of science. Maybe we can actually debate the positives and negatives of the vegan lifestyle in detail rather than hateful anecdotes, Mr. Piers Moron?

[Spezialo]

In b4 locked.

My bird is a Vegan, I am not. Not a chance I would stop eating meat.

[CraigDS]

I’m not sure crying for proper debate then calling someone Piers Moron go hand in hand.

[CraigDS]

In b4 locked.

My bird is a Vegan, I am not. Not a chance I would stop eating meat.

Do you call her “the vegan” or “my vegan”?

[shravan.satya]

Alan has very entrenched views on these subjects and seems not to have a idea of the impacts of some technology/industrialised practices have had on the environment.  Many of these practices have resulted in us being in the predicament we find ourselves in today (Climate Change and Biodiversity Loss).

Ethical vegans and dietry vegans are very different, as someone stated earlier.

Those that have a choice should all reduce their meat intake, for the good of the planet, as well as their own health.

It is important to note that many do not have choices when it comes to food.


I eat a mainly plant based diet.

His lack of knowledge on matters pertaining to environment is incredible. He said that we should care more about humans than bees. Clearly he is not aware of the intricate inter-dependence of species. If one fails, it will have devastating impacts on others. I think he even jumped on the anti-organic farming bandwagon because it suits his argument against caring for animals such as bees. How can you argue with someone who lacks fundamental understanding of so many things? Its a miracle that he at least believes in vaccinations.

[Spezialo]

Do you call her “the vegan” or “my vegan”?

'The weirdo'


Joke

[Elmo!]

Do you call her “the vegan” or “my vegan”?

 

[shravan.satya]

I’m not sure crying for proper debate then calling someone Piers Moron go hand in hand.

haha fair enough. I take that back. Just not a fan of hateful rhetoric and when I watch the English news on Youtube, Piers seems to fit that criteria. If it is too harsh, I apologize.

[Max_powers]

If one was looking for an optimal diet health-wise, I wouldn't say Veganism is the answer. It's generally better than some really bad dietary habits that have developed in the Anglo-Saxon world in the past 50-60 years.

However, there are plenty of countries where meat, dairy and seafood are essential parts of the diet and the populations are generally quite healthy. I am thinking Japan, Italy, France etc. I think it's generally because these diets have less sugar and processed foods. Veganism doesn't really address these issues.

I can understand the ethical and environmental arguments though.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

This a ridiculous discussion

You may as well have had the title "Tomato eaters in sport - Have Your Say"

Good at sport

Not good at sport